AVS Forum banner

Valve, "Linux is the future of gaming" - Shots fired?

11K views 439 replies 38 participants last post by  mguy5 
#1 ·
 http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/09/gabe-newell-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-new-hardware-coming-soon/
Quote:
Gabe Newell, the co-founder and managing director of Valve, said today that Linux is the future of gaming despite its current minuscule share of the market.


That seems hard to believe, given that Newell acknowledged Linux gaming generally accounts for less than one percent of the market by any measure including players, player minutes, and revenue. But Valve is going to do its best to make sure Linux becomes the future of gaming by extending its Steam distribution platform to hardware designed for living rooms.


Newell made his comments while delivering a keynote at LinuxCon in New Orleans. "It feels a little bit funny coming here and telling you guys that Linux and open source are the future of gaming," Newell said. "It's sort of like going to Rome and teaching Catholicism to the pope."

Presumably that also means the resurgence of OpenGL vs the DX11 API. Gabe has been on a tear ever since he's had a falling out MS and where they decided to shift the PC Gaming market, and he's showing no signed of letting up it appears. Games for Windows Live, Win8 and the increasingly intergrated DX seems to have gotten under his skin, as well as MS's push towards walled devices.


It also might not be so crazy either when you factor in that Android and iOS are both Linux platforms using OpenGL, as well as Sonys systems (anyone got info on Nintendo's API?).


For the first time in a long time most development is happening on Linux derivatives and OpenGL renders. Is Major platform and PC gaming the next to move there?
 
#352 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthrsg  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/300_50#post_24173907


Streaming the games from my Windows PC I mean.

Yeah, it'll do that.
 
#353 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/330#post_24173946


Right, which means that machine does all the work. So why spend more money on one that is just displaying a picture. Use one of the steamboxes that just has integrated graphics.

Because this AVS?
 
#356 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/350_50#post_24174011


Zotac is not one of the steambox makers. But currently they sell these little PCs that are intended for media streaming.

Speaking of small PCs, I wonder if they can make it work on a raspberry pi.
 
#357 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/330#post_24174011


Zotac is not one of the steambox makers. But currently they sell these little PCs that are intended for media streaming.

I'm not too concerned with media streaming and I did see they had a steambox, looked like a router. When these boxes launch they won't play the Windows games just the (ever growing catalog of) Linux ones. A future reported feature of the steamboxes is to pull your Windows Steam games over to the box bridging that until void until Linux finally does something right and wins the war of all OS.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01/07/ces-heres-the-steam-machine-from-zotac
 
#359 ·
 Polygon has an interesting article re: the confusion with the Steam Machines.


Pull-out quote: "Who buys new hardware or installs software that does less than the systems you already own?" Valve hasn't clarified this. I'm assuming it's not us PC builders they are after - Steam Machines are for people who want a reliable, easy to use gaming PC in the living room that they don't need to build and maintain, and don't need Windows. But other than an interesting variety of cheaper games, it seems we are failing to understand why anyone would invest in one of these over a game console.


If Valve is taking aim at Microsoft (Windows), I hope they have something up their sleeve beyond what's been presented so far.


My interest is turning into skepticism.
 
#360 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/330#post_24174197

Polygon has an interesting article re: the confusion with the Steam Machines.


Pull-out quote: "Who buys new hardware or installs software that does less than the systems you already own?" Valve hasn't clarified this. I'm assuming it's not us PC builders they are after - Steam Machines are for people who want a reliable, easy to use gaming PC in the living room that they don't need to build and maintain, and don't need Windows. But other than an interesting variety of cheaper games, it seems we are failing to understand why anyone would invest in one of these over a game console.


If Valve is taking aim at Microsoft (Windows), I hope they have something up their sleeve beyond what's been presented so far.


My interest is turning into skepticism.

Polygon...pfffft.
 
#361 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/350_50#post_24174197

Polygon has an interesting article re: the confusion with the Steam Machines.


Pull-out quote: "Who buys new hardware or installs software that does less than the systems you already own?" Valve hasn't clarified this. I'm assuming it's not us PC builders they are after - Steam Machines are for people who want a reliable, easy to use gaming PC in the living room that they don't need to build and maintain, and don't need Windows. But other than an interesting variety of cheaper games, it seems we are failing to understand why anyone would invest in one of these over a game console.


If Valve is taking aim at Microsoft (Windows), I hope they have something up their sleeve beyond what's been presented so far.


My interest is turning into skepticism.

I think that article is a fair assessment. The final paragraph is exactly right:
Quote:
Valve’s moves seem to have lit a match under the collective butt of a few hardware manufacturers when it comes to experimenting with form factors and pricing, and that’s a good thing, but right now the best thing you can with a Steam Machine is install Windows.

It reminds me of how netbooks came with Linux and sucked, came with windows and still sucked, and then chromeOS (a custom Linux build) made them awesome. But that took a few years, as will this.
 
#363 ·
I believe there is a lot of slack and play in the Steam initiative right now. It's growth will be slow and methodical at first. Because as more people ask...What is it? The answers are incoherent at the moment. It's certainly a big ??? for me right now. But a few haymaker initiatives could launch them and Valve into the stratosphere in 2015 if they play their hand right. Example are:

  1. Tight integration with Android and Mobile gaming devices
  2. Tight integration with Oculus Rift. And Oculus Rift becomes a phenomenon
  3. A couple of blockbuster strategic alliances with Sony and Nintendo. Meaning acquiring exclusive on-line DD only retail access to both PS 3 and Wii/U libraries for PC gaming (only).Valve would develop the required emulators to play the games on SteamOS PCs. And allow back door access to the same libraries to dedicated Nintendo and PS 4 users through the same emulators (including some PC exclusives). That would give PS and Nintendo new incremental Royalties on their exclusives sold through Steam and Vice versa. It would also spell instant backward compatibility for PS 4 and WiiU. Someone correct me please if I am wrong. But doesn't Sony and Nintendo use a Linux derivative OS in their consoles? If so the translation and emulation should be fairly easy. And it would be a win-win for all parties concerned IMO.


If anything like that happened...it could capture everyone's attention IMO. And open up a lot of intriguing future development initiatives for us gamers. Will they do it? Who knows. But they sure need some kind of splash like that to get and keep the market talking about their system.
 
#364 ·
I think you will get the first two but I dont think the 3rd will ever happen. Sony and Nintendo's main way of brining new gamers to their system is their own private library of games. I doubt that they would give away that advantage.


I understand why many on here are saying, "who will buy this" but honestly I think the majority of us here on AVS are not their target market. I have seen that generally here and on OCN we all would much rather build our own computers or have already built them.


Where these will really sell is parents buying them for their kids because of the massive game library and the parental controls that are available on Steam.

Families that want to be able to have multiple gaming PCs at a more reasonable price...

Or

People that dont want to build a computer.


I still think this is goign to be very successful for Valve. They are not abondoning their current market at all but are simply adding to it. Steam is free software to download and now SteamOS is free as well. The games that we have already bought will carry over if compatible and can be streamed to SteamOS from another windows PC.


In fact you may see this drastically changing the way we game entirely. Maybe instead of your normal gaming PC you will have a gaming server in the coming years that can run multiple games at a time or a single game and stream it to the different Steam Machines in the house. an "In home" cloud if you will.
 
#365 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/360#post_24189820


I think you will get the first two but I dont think the 3rd will ever happen. Sony and Nintendo's main way of brining new gamers to their system is their own private library of games. I doubt that they would give away that advantage.


I understand why many on here are saying, "who will buy this" but honestly I think the majority of us here on AVS are not their target market. I have seen that generally here and on OCN we all would much rather build our own computers or have already built them.


Where these will really sell is parents buying them for their kids because of the massive game library and the parental controls that are available on Steam.

Families that want to be able to have multiple gaming PCs at a more reasonable price...

Or

People that dont want to build a computer.


I still think this is goign to be very successful for Valve. They are not abondoning their current market at all but are simply adding to it. Steam is free software to download and now SteamOS is free as well. The games that we have already bought will carry over if compatible and can be streamed to SteamOS from another windows PC.


In fact you may see this drastically changing the way we game entirely. Maybe instead of your normal gaming PC you will have a gaming server in the coming years that can run multiple games at a time or a single game and stream it to the different Steam Machines in the house. an "In home" cloud if you will.

Yep.
 
#366 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/350_50#post_24189820


I think you will get the first two but I dont think the 3rd will ever happen. Sony and Nintendo's main way of brining new gamers to their system is their own private library of games. I doubt that they would give away that advantage.


I understand why many on here are saying, "who will buy this" but honestly I think the majority of us here on AVS are not their target market. I have seen that generally here and on OCN we all would much rather build our own computers or have already built them.


Where these will really sell is parents buying them for their kids because of the massive game library and the parental controls that are available on Steam.

Families that want to be able to have multiple gaming PCs at a more reasonable price...

Or

People that dont want to build a computer.


I still think this is goign to be very successful for Valve. They are not abondoning their current market at all but are simply adding to it. Steam is free software to download and now SteamOS is free as well. The games that we have already bought will carry over if compatible and can be streamed to SteamOS from another windows PC.


In fact you may see this drastically changing the way we game entirely. Maybe instead of your normal gaming PC you will have a gaming server in the coming years that can run multiple games at a time or a single game and stream it to the different Steam Machines in the house. an "In home" cloud if you will.

That's basically the way I treat my PC now, except I get it done with really, really long HDMI and USB cables in the walls. It's awesome though because you can put all your money into one machine instead of spending a fortune on redundancy for every room.


I'm sure my the time my baby is old enough to game they'll have it figured out where you can play two games at once.
 
#367 ·
Man, Valve's booth at CES was so crappy. They had the Steam Boxes all lined up (whoopie) and on the other side, was one dude at a table thing, with a Steam Controller (hollow and empty is my guess since it was light and felt cheap.) and that was it. The controller was surprisingly comfortable, and I like the 2 big buttons on the underside where your middle and ring fingers rest (perfect for lean in an FPS, or gear up/down in a racing game). But it wasn't connected to anything to actually test out the track pads, so it was essentially useless. Huge disappointment.
 
#368 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/360#post_24193274


Man, Valve's booth at CES was so crappy. They had the Steam Boxes all lined up (whoopie) and on the other side, was one dude at a table thing, with a Steam Controller (hollow and empty is my guess since it was light and felt cheap.) and that was it. The controller was surprisingly comfortable, and I like the 2 big buttons on the underside where your middle and ring fingers rest (perfect for lean in an FPS, or gear up/down in a racing game). But it wasn't connected to anything to actually test out the track pads, so it was essentially useless. Huge disappointment.

Damn, so no demoing the controller? Considering it's in beta people's hands and comes out this year, I guess Valve didn't value CES.
 
#369 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/360#post_24193274


Man, Valve's booth at CES was so crappy. They had the Steam Boxes all lined up (whoopie) and on the other side, was one dude at a table thing, with a Steam Controller (hollow and empty is my guess since it was light and felt cheap.) and that was it. The controller was surprisingly comfortable, and I like the 2 big buttons on the underside where your middle and ring fingers rest (perfect for lean in an FPS, or gear up/down in a racing game). But it wasn't connected to anything to actually test out the track pads, so it was essentially useless. Huge disappointment.
That totally sucks! They could have gotten some good feedback from CES if they would have allowed it.
 
#370 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/360#post_24175269


I think that article is a fair assessment. The final paragraph is exactly right:

It reminds me of how netbooks came with Linux and sucked, came with windows and still sucked, and then chromeOS (a custom Linux build) made them awesome. But that took a few years, as will this.

Polygon, always protecting their masters.


It's good to see someone that gets it: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-11-valve-plays-the-long-game-again
Quote:
The key to understanding Steam Machines, SteamOS and the Steam Controller is hidden in an unremarkable phrase Gabe Newell tends to use whenever he talks about them. I wasn't in Las Vegas at CES, but I read a couple of live blogs that reported him saying it again: Valve's goal with these things is to protect the openness of the PC as a gaming platform. Over the years, Valve has gone from simply evangelising the PC platform - it once flew journalists in from around the world pretty much just to tell them it was great - to actively protecting it, and what we're seeing now is just the beginning of that push.

If they end up owning the PC game sphere, that's fine by them. But this is mostly to a push to stake out some equity and voting power in PC gaming hardware before it reaches the point that those currently involved in it decide the winds blowing a different way (smart devices, tablet computing, streaming/cloud services) and drop all support.
 
#371 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/360#post_24195088



Polygon, always protecting their masters.


It's good to see someone that gets it: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-11-valve-plays-the-long-game-again

If they end up owning the PC game sphere, that's fine by them. But this is mostly to a push to stake out some equity and voting power in PC gaming hardware before it reaches the point that those currently involved in it decide the winds blowing a different way (smart devices, tablet computing, streaming/cloud services) and drop all support.
 

It's long overdue, that's for sure.  There's no one I'd rather have lead the charge than valve, and I respect the way they're going about it.
 
#372 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/300_100#post_24195088


If they end up owning the PC game sphere, that's fine by them. But this is mostly to a push to stake out some equity and voting power in PC gaming hardware before it reaches the point that those currently involved in it decide the winds blowing a different way (smart devices, tablet computing, streaming/cloud services) and drop all support.

Yea, I think that's it. People are so focused on horse races ("console vs. PC", "Gabe versus Microsoft") that they can't see what is realyl going on.


The PC market is collapsing. Full on collapsing. Sales peaked in 2011 and have been on a steady decline since. The decline will continue. People blame Windows 8 but it's really Apple's fault. Apple showed you don't need some big complicated box with a cumbersome OS to do 95% of what you want to do. Windows 8 was a reaction to that, good or bad, but I think most agree MS had to try something.


So, right now, Valve "owns" the PC game market, what happens if PCs disappear?


That's what Valve is reacting to. Right now most PCs are bought to do "other stuff" and do games on the side. The presumption is that tablets and phones will take over "other stuff" but they still want people to buy a PC for games.
 
#373 ·

Quote:
Take SteamOS. To you and me, it's a direct interface for Steam based on Linux that currently has poor software support. To Valve, though, it's a first step in levering development, publishing, gameplay and community away from their reliance on Windows and DirectX (and to a lesser extent Mac OS), systems that cannot be relied upon in the long term.

The question is will it work. It is, to say the lease, a gamble. Especially with the current entrenchment of technology and PC gamer preference.


To Valve the problem has always been that the Personal Computer also does games. That gaming has been piggy backing on the success of office, and explorer, and all the other stuff that Gamers don't really need. At least at the amount windows gives those other things.


There are big problems for PC gamers on the horizon, especially if the desktop really does goes extinct. There's a number of PC Gamers out there, but it's a much smaller fraction of "desktop users". Smaller user bases mean higher costs (if anyone wants to offer you products at all), which is exactly why Valve is looking to sort of standardize these steam machines and pull much more efficiency out of them. ITLR, if it gets to that, they're looking save PC gaming without letting costs spiral up due to hardware manufactures having to serve a much smaller market share.
 
#374 ·
I think the big problem for SteamOS short-term is that the huge Steam library we've all been building is mostly non-functional on it. Some of the biggest PC games out there also do not work on it, like Starcraft 2, World of Warcraft, and Battlefield. I'd probably be a good candidate for SteamOS were it not for that.


The question is really can they convince "regular" people (the type who buy a cheap laptop and then pick up L4D2, Civ5, etc.) to keep investing in the PC platform even if an iPad handles their computing functions just fine. I think it is a tough sell - PCs are expensive, PC games always get more demanding, even a simple AIO PC requires some level of maintenance. I think people are abandoning PCs with good reason (they're too complex for what people need) and I don't see how SteamOS resolves that core issue.
 
#375 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/360#post_24195191


I think the big problem for SteamOS short-term is that the huge Steam library we've all been building is mostly non-functional on it. Some of the biggest PC games out there also do not work on it, like Starcraft 2, World of Warcraft, and Battlefield. I'd probably be a good candidate for SteamOS were it not for that.


The question is really can they convince "regular" people (the type who buy a cheap laptop and then pick up L4D2, Civ5, etc.) to keep investing in the PC platform even if an iPad handles their computing functions just fine. I think it is a tough sell - PCs are expensive, PC games always get more demanding, even a simple AIO PC requires some level of maintenance. I think people are abandoning PCs with good reason (they're too complex for what people need) and I don't see how SteamOS resolves that core issue.

The fix for that is streaming from your existing PC. I drop a SteamBox in my living room and it pulls those Windows games from my office machine.
 
#376 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthrsg  /t/1491127/valve-linux-is-the-future-of-gaming-shots-fired/300_100#post_24195209


The fix for that is streaming from your existing PC. I drop a SteamBox in my living room and it pulls those Windows games from my office machine.

That's a pain in the butt, though. I'm not interested in doing that at all. I'm not going to spend $500+ on a computer so I can stream from another computer. Streaming is always sub-optimal.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top