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post #181 of 428 Old 10-22-2013, 05:30 PM
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Yeah, it's totally playable, but I'm so spoiled by 60fps. With g-sync coming I think I can wait.

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post #182 of 428 Old 10-24-2013, 11:37 AM
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You seem to have two approaches to take now.

Nvidia has G-Sync
Amd is cheaper and has Mantle

It's really nice to see AMD stepping up their game. Now if they could only transfer that performance to their CPUs. Dont get me wrong, their CPUs are :rolleyes:good, but they dont really compete will against Intel.

Edit: I personally would go for G-Sync.

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post #183 of 428 Old 10-24-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

You seem to have two approaches to take now.

Nvidia has G-Sync
Amd is cheaper and has Mantle

It's really nice to see AMD stepping up their game. Now if they could only transfer that performance to their CPUs. Dont get me wrong, their CPUs are :rolleyes:good, but they dont really compete will against Intel.

Edit: I personally would go for G-Sync.

Yeah, it's a pretty easy choice between the two. Although I do want to hear AMD's trueaudio, but I'm hoping they integrate them into the CPU. That will prob be enough for me to drop intel at least.

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post #184 of 428 Old 10-24-2013, 03:18 PM
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More bang for the buck and I can keep playing on my 60" display from my comfy couch... AMD will still get my business with the next upgrade. I'm eyeing the vanilla R9 290 if the price is right, but will likely wait until 2014 to decide.
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post #185 of 428 Old 10-24-2013, 03:33 PM
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Not impressed with the 290X. Yes it trades blows with a STOCK Titan. But do note the 290X is so highly OC'd out of the box, that it runs at 95c and AMD is perfectly ok with that.... Price is apparently right though, so I'll give them that, but meh. My slightly OC'd 780 outperforms a stock Titan and was under $700. AMD has the top in terms of 4k so far, but really at 1440p and 1080p, the difference is so minimal.

As for the non-X 290, eeehhhhh. lol


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post #186 of 428 Old 10-24-2013, 05:07 PM
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Not impressed with the 290X. Yes it trades blows with a STOCK Titan. But do note the 290X is so highly OC'd out of the box, that it runs at 95c and AMD is perfectly ok with that.... Price is apparently right though, so I'll give them that, but meh. My slightly OC'd 780 outperforms a stock Titan and was under $700. AMD has the top in terms of 4k so far, but really at 1440p and 1080p, the difference is so minimal.

As for the non-X 290, eeehhhhh. lol
I'm not to sure I wold be to happy with 95C out of the box. What does your O'd 780 run at?

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post #187 of 428 Old 10-24-2013, 05:57 PM
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I'm not to sure I wold be to happy with 95C out of the box. What does your O'd 780 run at?

Under gaming load? usually 65-67c, peaks at 70-72c depending on the game. Rarely ever hit higher than that except during heavy benching. I currently have it clocked at 1188 core and 1652 vram (3304 total). On stock bios, stock voltage, air cooling.


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post #188 of 428 Old 10-24-2013, 11:18 PM
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Not impressed with the 290X. Yes it trades blows with a STOCK Titan. But do note the 290X is so highly OC'd out of the box, that it runs at 95c and AMD is perfectly ok with that.... Price is apparently right though, so I'll give them that, but meh. My slightly OC'd 780 outperforms a stock Titan and was under $700. AMD has the top in terms of 4k so far, but really at 1440p and 1080p, the difference is so minimal.

As for the non-X 290, eeehhhhh. lol
Reference cards with reference coolers. They're always horrible. My slightly OC'ed 7970GHz tops out at around 62°C during the summer with a non-reference air cooler (now it's even lower). The stock 7970GHz was over 80°C when it was released. That's how much AMD stock coolers suck.

In any case, it's $549 for a card that goes toe-to-toe with the Titan that costs nearly twice as much, and bests the 780 that costs at least $100 more...how is that not impressive? Even when the non-reference cards drop they probably won't be that much more expensive.

Not that any of this matters much to me because I'd never pay that much for a GPU. lol I got my 7970GHz for $360 about a year ago but $400 is probably the most I'd pay for a card. I have no loyalty to either the Red or Green teams...I just go for whatever's the best value. For a long time that was Nvidia (the very first stand-alone GPU that I bought for myself was a GeForce 2 MX400...so many hours lost playing MoHAA...), but AMD's taken that crown last 2-3 years. That being said, if Mantle ends up being significant, that could sway me even more down the line.
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post #189 of 428 Old 10-25-2013, 05:34 AM
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Reference cards with reference coolers. They're always horrible. My slightly OC'ed 7970GHz tops out at around 62°C during the summer with a non-reference air cooler (now it's even lower). The stock 7970GHz was over 80°C when it was released. That's how much AMD stock coolers suck.

In any case, it's $549 for a card that goes toe-to-toe with the Titan that costs nearly twice as much, and bests the 780 that costs at least $100 more...how is that not impressive? Even when the non-reference cards drop they probably won't be that much more expensive.

Not that any of this matters much to me because I'd never pay that much for a GPU. lol I got my 7970GHz for $360 about a year ago but $400 is probably the most I'd pay for a card. I have no loyalty to either the Red or Green teams...I just go for whatever's the best value. For a long time that was Nvidia (the very first stand-alone GPU that I bought for myself was a GeForce 2 MX400...so many hours lost playing MoHAA...), but AMD's taken that crown last 2-3 years. That being said, if Mantle ends up being significant, that could sway me even more down the line.

It's not impressive to me simply because it's already so OC'd out of the box that AMD states it will run at 95c and that's just fine with them. IE, you'll be lucky to be able to OC any higher without being on a waterblock. This insane OC is the only way it trades blows with a STOCK Titan with no OC. And as I said, my 780 can best a STOCK Titan too and I've barely got a 100Mhz OC on it and it runs nowhere near 95c.

Reviews have been quite lackluster and some have noted an 11 minute cooldown time from 95c to 47c, that's absolutely ridiculous and shows an incredibly poor design on the heat side. My 6870 which only had the reference fan didn't take anywhere NEAR that long to cool down. And the slower memory clock also hampers it, especially due to the operating temp being that high. My major issue is still the fact that AMD removed the possibility of personal overclocking on it JUST to barely beat a Titan.

That's why I'm not impressed, at all. I already said price point is nice for a space heater that can also game. I'm not a fanboy one way or the other, my previous comp was AMD all around and I like them, this one is Intel/Nvidia, I'm just not going purely by performance for price. Especially when heat levels are that high, and the ability to do your own OC'ing is pretty much dead without a custom water loop that will set you back 200-300 bucks for a single card alone. I was very interested in the 290X until the official reviews and data started popping up.

The 290X seems like AMD just chasing after the Titan saying "Wait for me! Wait for me! I'm a contender too!" I have a very strong feeling the 290X typical lifespan is going to be quite short with that operating temp.


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post #190 of 428 Old 10-25-2013, 08:18 AM
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I'm not upgrading GPUs until the high-end 20nm parts become available, which could be a while. But, they just might show up around the time when I upgrade my CPU and motherboard to Intel's Haswell-E and X99.

Both AMD and Nvidia have interesting upcoming technologies in general, and both companies (as well as game developers) should have ample time to flesh them out by this time next year.
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post #191 of 428 Old 10-25-2013, 08:34 AM
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The 290X is impressive but I am like the rest of you. With how hot it runs I wont be getting it.

The only way I would even consider it is if I was going to run a dual X-fire system watercooled and that is only because AMD tends to scale better than Nvidia in SLI....

Maybe Nvidia has fixed that now I havent looked into it in a little bit...

But the 780Ti is around the corner and I have no doubt that it will outperform the 290X.

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post #192 of 428 Old 10-25-2013, 09:05 AM
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Look at it this way. It's like a Bugatti Veyron and a Nissan GTR. I love both btw and prefer the GTR.

The Veyron is like the Titan, it has the performance and doesn't break a sweat to do it.

The GTR is the 290X, it can also reach the level of the Veyron, but you have to cram 1700hp into it and seal off all the lines up front. But when you do, it will reach 250mph like the Veyron does without even really trying.

The Veyron costs a million dollars, the tweaked GTR costs about half that.

Now realize just how hard the GTR is working to reach that level of performance and how drastically it shortens its lifespan by doing so.

Now you see why I don't find it that impressive. Sure, it got there, but at what cost?

I'd rather have the 1k card that I know will run cooler and last longer for a certainty. (or in my case the $690 card.) Than the $580 that runs hotter than anyone in their right mind would be comfortable with and may not make it over a year.


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post #193 of 428 Old 10-25-2013, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

Look at it this way. It's like a Bugatti Veyron and a Nissan GTR. I love both btw and prefer the GTR.

The Veyron is like the Titan, it has the performance and doesn't break a sweat to do it.

The GTR is the 290X, it can also reach the level of the Veyron, but you have to cram 1700hp into it and seal off all the lines up front. But when you do, it will reach 250mph like the Veyron does without even really trying.

The Veyron costs a million dollars, the tweaked GTR costs about half that.

Now realize just how hard the GTR is working to reach that level of performance and how drastically it shortens its lifespan by doing so.

Now you see why I don't find it that impressive. Sure, it got there, but at what cost?

I'd rather have the 1k card that I know will run cooler and last longer for a certainty. (or in my case the $690 card.) Than the $580 that runs hotter than anyone in their right mind would be comfortable with and may not make it over a year.

If most of us are going to change every 3-5 years anyway because we are addicts. Who cares about the Bugatti except the rare collector? I say...run fast...run hard...run hot...and change cars at a much cheaper rate before it blows up! I already have enough expensive relics in my house. That only have value to me or a very narrow market of perfection seekers. And I mean that only allegorically. Not as a slight to anyone's opinion about this. I respect them all. I'm just giving my take on it. And why I finally went the top end AMD route on my latest build. After being a diehard NVidia/Intel guy for most of my PC life. I don't feel like I'm missing anything from the Bugatti. And I know my Nissan will start to fart in about 2 years if I don't Cross fire it. I'll get a great deal this winter on a new HD 7870 and do just that. And when the system goes diarrhea on me in about 5 years...change everything again. But I concede that there is a viable market out there. That changes every 3-5 years. And only buys the Bugatti. I don't have those kind of shekels!
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post #194 of 428 Old 10-25-2013, 11:50 AM
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Haha, on Overclock.net you have people buying several of those Bugattis and SLI them!

Personally, I have a massive computer right now.

Caselabs M8, and I was planning to do SLI in it with some massive water cooling gear.

However, now I am thinking it is better for me to go the mATX or ITX route and just do one single high end card like the 780 and watercool and overclock it. It will be cheaper in the long run to replace one card instead of 2-3.

But then again, SLI systems dont need to replaced as often...

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post #195 of 428 Old 10-25-2013, 12:09 PM
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Good lord can you imagine the heat of CF 290X's? No frickin thanks.

My point really is that that's pretty much the peak performance you get from a 290X, where as the Titan and some 780's at stock clocks perform just as well, and then better with an OC. And they run so much cooler.

Like I said, my 780 HoF runs at 1188 core and 6600 memory.

That's a +104 core and +300 mem OC and it performs better than a stock Titan in most cases and was $690, not 1k. And runs 25c+ cooler than a 290X.

Hence why I'm not impressed lol.

But yes, OCN is full of people with insane amounts of money.


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post #196 of 428 Old 10-25-2013, 12:52 PM
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HAHA, yes, OCN has alot of what I call "Insane Enthusiasts"

I am a techie myself and enjoy building computers more than I do gaming on them. However, I still cant figure out if I should keep my M8 or go to something smaller.

I may be moving for jobs so I am going to let the size of my house decide for me.

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post #197 of 428 Old 10-25-2013, 12:59 PM
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If most of us are going to change every 3-5 years anyway because we are addicts...
3-5 years? O_o I wish I had that kind of self-control. lol I usually upgrade my GPU every couple years at most. The rest of my system is dependent on newer technology and if it's worthwhile.

As for the 290X, like I said, it's a reference cooler. Those temps are completely meaningless to me since I'd never buy a reference card, so that argument doesn't hold any water. Now, if the custom coolers still run over 80°C, then we'd agree. lol
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post #198 of 428 Old 10-25-2013, 09:10 PM
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For whatever reason, he refuses to acknowledge that fact. Reference coolers are always horrific. Not only would I get a non-reference card with a better cooling solution, but in my post that he was responding to, I am thinking of getting a 290 which will be even cooler than the 290X he complains about. The price savings vs. some of the other options out there makes it worth it to me when I pull the trigger, and the heat issue will no doubt be under control with the available 3rd party card choices.

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post #199 of 428 Old 10-26-2013, 03:34 AM
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For whatever reason, he refuses to acknowledge that fact. Reference coolers are always horrific. Not only would I get a non-reference card with a better cooling solution, but in my post that he was responding to, I am thinking of getting a 290 which will be even cooler than the 290X he complains about. The price savings vs. some of the other options out there makes it worth it to me when I pull the trigger, and the heat issue will no doubt be under control with the available 3rd party card choices.

Of course it will. I'm not refusing to acknowledge anything, I'm simply not making an unproven statement about cards that haven't been made yet. Will the non-refs run cooler? probably, but we can't say how much cooler until they're actually out now can we? But that's not what we're talking about is it? No, the only 290X on the market right now is the reference model. Hell my 780 isn't reference, it's the Galaxy Hall of Fame Edition. But even so, there hasn't been a reference model that ran anywhere near that hot since the GTX 400 series which liked to push up to 92c. Until non-refs hit the market, the only thing we can judge is the reference models. And if they want to impress me, they need to pull that same performance, and run MUCH cooler. And by that I mean 72c or less under gaming load.

I also was basing my opinion of the Non-X 290 off what the X manages to do, which is reasonable. Sure the vanilla 290 will be cooler, it's not being pushed to it's limits out of the box, that's never been questioned. All I said was 'eeeehhhh' about it. Why even bring it up? You said you were eying it, I sad eh, what more needs to be said? The discussion has been about the 290X not the vanilla 290.


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post #200 of 428 Old 10-26-2013, 03:25 PM
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90c+ is way to hot for an HTPC any way you spell it. I like big screen, not blue screen.
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post #201 of 428 Old 10-28-2013, 10:31 AM
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And AMD manages to be the performance for price king for a matter of days.
Quote:
Quoting prices in US dollars, the GTX 780 will drop from $649 to $499 and the GTX 770 from $399 to $329. Given that both GPUs have near-perfect exchange-rate correlation presently, one would expect the cheapest boards from each family to drop to £375 and £250, respectively, though it's likely both will be a touch more expensive as retailers try to increase margin.


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post #202 of 428 Old 10-28-2013, 01:27 PM
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And AMD manages to be the performance for price king for a matter of days.

That's not where the fistfight will occur. That will be during the holidays...with AMD price drops in the 7800 series from $89-$149. And the 7900 series from $199-$299. I'm sure NVidia will respond with their mid tier models. But it could get bloody in that ring over the holidays. As a bunch of AMD owners make take the bait to "Crossfire". I know I will be watching the Asus HD7870 very closely.

BTW...This thread has strayed far away from the Valve Linux dustup with Microsoft & others. Does anyone see any movement by MS to meet this challenge in 2014...other than just talk and bluster? And what about Apple? Don't they sorta already have this?

Edit:
On another note altogether. Looks like Valve and Oculus Rift could be collaborating much closer than any of us thought.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/oculus-are-applying-insights-valve-s-new-vr-prototype-rift

OR/VR could be a big part of their Linux push. HL3 perhaps?
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post #203 of 428 Old 10-28-2013, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Not gaming per say, but Disney is also researching haptics (whats supposedly powering the Steam Controller). This is a good overview on some advances in the tech and it's implementations:

http://www.wired.com/design/2013/10/disneys-magic-touchscreens-let-you-feel-apps-with-your-fingertips/
Quote:
As researcher Ali Israr explains, in its most basic form, the system involves an insulated electrode paired with an electronic driver to create the voltage patterns. It has to be configured differently depending on the display involved, but in their testing the team successfully adapted the system to several off-the-shelf touch-sensitive panels.

In its current form, the software’s most effective when working from predefined maps of physical features–objects that have been paired with coordinates for their topography beforehand. Even here, the possibilities for single-purpose devices are obvious: envision … museum kiosks that let kids feel creatures found only at the bottom of the sea. The project also offers some interesting applications for visually-impaired users. But Israr thinks the vibrating touchscreens could be adapted for more commonplace activities too–browsing through Amazon, say, or surfing the web.

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post #204 of 428 Old 10-29-2013, 07:37 AM
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That article about disney is very interesting. I still really dont get though how simple vibrations can make it seem like you are actually touching something though.

However, I have no doubt it is something that you have to really experience for yourself.

I am growing more and more excited as time draws near for the Steam Controller and SteamOS.

I work at a computer all day and on the weekends the last thing I want to do is to sit at my computer more just to play a game. However, I like gaming on a PC far more than I do on a console. So this may very well be the answer.

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post #205 of 428 Old 10-29-2013, 08:01 AM
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I don't understand what G-sync is. Does it allow me to turn off V-sync and get higher framerates with no tearing? Or is it simply a chip in the monitor that tells the program to turn on V-sync. Seems the result will be the same.
On another note It's sad that Processing power has hit such a wall that other forms of hardware are now needed to eek a few more FPS out of game.
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post #206 of 428 Old 10-29-2013, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Arcadia88 View Post

I don't understand what G-sync is. Does it allow me to turn off V-sync and get higher framerates with no tearing? Or is it simply a chip in the monitor that tells the program to turn on V-sync. Seems the result will be the same.
On another note It's sad that Processing power has hit such a wall that other forms of hardware are now needed to eek a few more FPS out of game.

G-Sync replaces V-Sync and basically matches the monitors refresh rate to the frame rate that your GPU is feeding the monitor.....that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

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post #207 of 428 Old 10-29-2013, 08:16 AM
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So then then it's the monitor slowing down to avoid the tearing? What happens if the game goes down to the single digit Frame rates? Will my monitor turn into a strobe?
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post #208 of 428 Old 10-29-2013, 08:52 AM
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So then then it's the monitor slowing down to avoid the tearing? What happens if the game goes down to the single digit Frame rates? Will my monitor turn into a strobe?

It refreshes no less than 30hz.
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post #209 of 428 Old 10-30-2013, 11:17 AM
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http://www.maximumpc.com/steam_platform_tops_65_million_users_sees_xbox_live_rearview_mirror2013

Steam is more popular than XBL, I wonder how this will transfer over to SteamOS and Steam Machine popularity.
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post #210 of 428 Old 10-30-2013, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

http://www.maximumpc.com/steam_platform_tops_65_million_users_sees_xbox_live_rearview_mirror2013

Steam is more popular than XBL, I wonder how this will transfer over to SteamOS and Steam Machine popularity.

Yet Microsoft could close that gap overnight. And maybe even pull slightly ahead by opening up Win 8.1 to accommodate XBL users. They can do that via a Win 8.1/XB OS...after uploading their entire Xbox 360, XBL Arcade and Original Xbox game Library to the XB/Win Cloud. And making it accessible Xbox One users, and Win 8.1 PC users for a one time annual charge of $30. Which just roles into the normal XBL annual subscription thereafter. The service should be able to index every users gamer profile to allow free play of games already owned & played. They could cut out the cheap crap. And retain a retro studio like Saber Interactive to emulate and export all of the original Xbox games to the new XBL Arcade platform. And charge no more than $1.99 to play the games on XB1 or PC. That kind of move would also encourage many to adopt Windows 8 and Xbox One as their console of choice IMO.
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