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post #91 of 587 Old 11-03-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Bolton View Post

Agreed. I am a huge fan of Lian Li cases for that very reason, and of course my obsession with aluminum.smile.gif

Lian Li's are great, if a bit pricey, but I would still consider them worth it. Corsair makes a couple good sleek and subdued ones, as does Silverstone and BitFenix. And Fractal, can't forget them

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post #92 of 587 Old 11-03-2013, 05:17 PM
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When on steam and using a xbox 360 controller, dose chat work with xbox headset plugged into the controller?
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post #93 of 587 Old 11-03-2013, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LETH2AL View Post

When on steam and using a xbox 360 controller, dose chat work with xbox headset plugged into the controller?

Windows will recognize the headset as long as you connect the headset before connecting the controller. Then it recognizes it as a recording and playback device. Then in the chat settings for Steam, select the proper device from the list.
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post #94 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

4K @ 60fps is currently available through DisplayPort, but not HDMI yet. Once HDMI 2.0 starts hitting mass market, I'm sure the video cards will follow.

I believe Windows tops out at 7.1 for surround - can anyone verify?

Thanks DaverJ,

I'm considering whether to build a PC with a GTX 780 now and play games in 1080p ultra settings and then in the next year or so upgrade to a graphics card that supports HDMI 2.0, I mean it's only going to be of use once I get a 4k projector and that is likely to be about 12 months away.

Does PC surround sound work the same way as consoles and bluray players i.e. I plug a single HDMI from the PC into my receiver and the receiver outputs 7.1 sound while passing the video signal onto my projector? or is it a bit more complicated than that?

Also I live in Australia where PC parts are more expensive, would you guys recommend ordering the parts from Amazon (as an example) and shipping them to Australia? or would it be to much of a risk them getting damaged during transport?

Kind Regards

Scott
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post #95 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 06:42 AM
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Nope, surround is that simple.

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post #96 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidjammer View Post

Does PC surround sound work the same way as consoles and bluray players i.e. I plug a single HDMI from the PC into my receiver and the receiver outputs 7.1 sound while passing the video signal onto my projector? or is it a bit more complicated than that?

It's pretty easy - HDMI from your video card to your AV - once the handshake happens Windows sees the surround receiver and sends the appropriate surround. Worst-case would be the need to go into Windows speaker setup and switch to 7.1:



IIRC, when I hooked up my Win7 and Win8 PC to the AV in my HT first time it recognized that it was hooked up to a Denon and set it up for 7.1 automatically. Games use the audio that Windows is set up for.
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post #97 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 08:58 AM
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I really like my "PC game console" but there's a lot of great PC games not designed for HDTV. After playing StarCraft 2 on my TV for maybe 100 games I got a laptop. I play games like Civ, Guild Wars 2, etc. on the laptop (strategy games, MMOswhile keep the PC to games that, well, are mostly console ports. So just keep that in mind. The truth is that more games than ever are cross platform so it's not as big of a deal as it used to be.
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post #98 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

I really like my "PC game console" but there's a lot of great PC games not designed for HDTV.

Great point, I'll update the Q&A. Thanks Laing!
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post #99 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 09:17 AM
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Yep, sure. I have no doubt there is a crazy person out there loving Crusader Kings 2 on his 60" HDTV, but it's not optimal and anyone pursuing this should realize that games are indeed designed to be played in certain ways. I wouldn't want to play DmC or Bioshock Infinite on my laptop.
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post #100 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Consoles are designed from the ground up for the "10-Foot Experience", computers are not.

Most all PC ports of console games retain the "10-Foot Experience", but games designed for PC don't necessarily take this into account. I have no problems reading text in games like Diablo 3 or The Adventures of Van Helsing on my 46" TV, but I sit pretty close - about 5 or 6 feet away from the screen.
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post #101 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Most all PC ports of console games retain the "10-Foot Experience", but games designed for PC don't necessarily take this into account. I have no problems reading text in games like Diablo 3 or The Adventures of Van Helsing on my 46" TV, but I sit pretty close - about 5 or 6 feet away from the screen.

Anyone know if there's a way to change it so the UI becomes larger? Guild Wars 2 is amazing on my projector, but it's hard as hell to read the text from where I'm sitting (13' away).

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post #102 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Anyone know if there's a way to change it so the UI becomes larger? Guild Wars 2 is amazing on my projector, but it's hard as hell to read the text from where I'm sitting (13' away).

It's in the graphics options. Interface Size.

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post #103 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 01:23 PM
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Leth2al,

FWIW, my experience with the Alienware x51 (and I may get pummeled for this, but it’s my experience as a PC gamer that started in the spring of 2012):

I initially bought an x51 for the same reasons as you cited, i.e., didn’t know much about PC gaming, wasn’t too confident in building myself, wanted to start gaming right off, etc.. I started with the following:

i7-2600 Intel processor
8 GB Ram
GTX 555 OEM 1.5 GB

For the time, it was a mid to high-end gaming pc (probably leaning toward the former). I’ve since upgraded the ram to 16 gb (overkill I know, but it was cheap), and upgraded the video card to a GTX 670 4GB which I’ve overclocked.

I can play Battlefield 4 on Ultra with FPS only dipping down to the low 50’s at times. Most times, I’m averaging above 60 fps. Bring down 2 or 3 settings from Ultra to high and I never dip below 60 fps at all.

With no other upgrades I expect to be able to keep going 3 or 4 more years—maybe not at the top graphical settings, but definitely enough to be playable (and dare I say competitive with, if not slightly outdoing) the next-gen consoles.

I share that to say this:

I started with something small but effective (acknowledging I paid a premium to have someone else build it). Then I took baby steps and learned how to do simple things like upgrading RAM and video cards. In about 3 or 4 years when I’m ready to upgrade again, I’ll most likely build myself.

In the beginning, I absolutely could have gotten more bang for the buck by researching, buying separate components, and building myself…but I didn’t want to go through the hassle of building it (at least right off), potentially troubleshooting, etc.

So the x51 was a way to dip my toes in the water, learn some basic things like upgrading, etc. while being able to play straightaway. Later, I’ll feel much more comfortable building myself.

Now I certainly do not disagree with what anyone here says about building it yourself, and you can certainly get more for the money that way... it does look to be as easy as everyone says. My only point is that if you’re initially timid in this regard, getting a decent prebuilt rig and learning to upgrade it as you go along can be a valid option as you get more comfortable.

Just another perspective...
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post #104 of 587 Old 11-04-2013, 01:42 PM
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It's in the graphics options. Interface Size.

Haha. Shame on me for asking the question before actually checking. wink.gif

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post #105 of 587 Old 11-05-2013, 07:21 AM
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Working with the "High end Gaming rig" as detailed by Marafice Eye I have put together a shopping cart from a PC supplier in Australia, it works out a few hundred dollars more with less HDD but by the time I factor in shiiping from the US it is probably going to be similar in price. Still tossing up whether I change the GTX 780 for the R9 290X.

Do you think this is a good PC that will run most games 1080p 60fps over the next few years while I wait for a 4K upgrade?

Your Order

1 x Intel Core i7 4770K $379.00
1 x Corsair Hydro Series H100i CPU Cooler $149.00
1 x ASUS Maximus VI Gene Motherboard $285.00
1 x G.Skill Trident X F3-2400C10D-16GTX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 $209.00
1 x Samsung 840 EVO Series 120GB SSD $109.00
1 x Seagate Barracuda 3TB ST3000DM001 $139.00
1 x Aerocool Imperator 1150W 80+ Gold Power Supply $229.00
1 x LG BH16NS40 16X BD-R Blu-ray Writer OEM $89.00
1 x Microsoft Windows 8 Pro 64bit OEM $155.00
1 x Gigabyte GeForce GTX 780 OC 3GB $649.00
1 x PCCG Custom System Assembly Service with Upgraded Cooler $135.00
1 x Corsair Carbide 400R Black Mid-Tower Case $130.00
$2657.00 Sub-Total:
$99.14 eParcel PP Standard:
$250.56 GST Included:
$2756.14 Total:

Any thoughts/recommendations are very much appreciated.

Kind Regards

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post #106 of 587 Old 11-05-2013, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidjammer View Post

Do you think this is a good PC that will run most games 1080p 60fps over the next few years while I wait for a 4K upgrade?

Killer rig! It's kinda shocking to see the exchange rate... yikes! eek.gif

I'm unfamiliar with that power supply, and it might be a bit overkill...? Make sure it's SLI certified. If it was my rig, I would probably opt for a name brand PS like Seasonic or Corsair, but I'll let the other guys weigh in on that.

I would push for the GTX780, but that's just because I like what nVidia is doing with drivers and the Geforce Experience software. Plus you have room for a second 780 for SLI if you want to get crazy with it. biggrin.gif

But yeah, there are very few games that task that system, and the ones that do are probably unoptimized. Everything should run on Ultra/Extreme settings, and if there's any hitches usually dropping AA down a notch helps, and looks mostly identical.
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post #107 of 587 Old 11-05-2013, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

Yep, sure. I have no doubt there is a crazy person out there loving Crusader Kings 2 on his 60" HDTV, but it's not optimal and anyone pursuing this should realize that games are indeed designed to be played in certain ways. I wouldn't want to play DmC or Bioshock Infinite on my laptop.
Very true. I have been PC gaming in my living room since well before it became semi-normal to do so, and I have struggled a lot with games not being built for an HDTV and having to skip over games I want to play simply because they don't work in this environment.

Back in the 720p days it really wasn't too bad, some games you had to squint to read the quest text, but it was passable for the most part.

As soon as 1080p hit my living room it really became a struggle. I use 150% DPI in windows to keep things readable but this breaks 99% of games and needs to be disabled in compatibility settings. Then it's really dependent on whether the game has UI scaling or is built for "consoles" or to be a pure PC game.

This is getting better everyday but lots of games, such as Paradox titles as you mentioned, are just simply built around the expectation that people are sitting a foot away from the monitor.

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post #108 of 587 Old 11-05-2013, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Killer rig! It's kinda shocking to see the exchange rate... yikes! eek.gif

I'm unfamiliar with that power supply, and it might be a bit overkill...? Make sure it's SLI certified. If it was my rig, I would probably opt for a name brand PS like Seasonic or Corsair, but I'll let the other guys weigh in on that.

I would push for the GTX780, but that's just because I like what nVidia is doing with drivers and the Geforce Experience software. Plus you have room for a second 780 for SLI if you want to get crazy with it. biggrin.gif

But yeah, there are very few games that task that system, and the ones that do are probably unoptimized. Everything should run on Ultra/Extreme settings, and if there's any hitches usually dropping AA down a notch helps, and looks mostly identical.

Not sure that the high price is purely due to the exchange rate. We like to call it "Australian Tax" which is this mysterious inflated rate we pay for some goods over and above regular taxes and exchange rate for example the GTX 780 is $530 on amazon, at the current exchange rate it is $558.00 add out 10% goods and services tax and you are looking at $613.00 yet the price we then have to pay is $650. This isn't a horrible example things like the PS4 shaft us even more as that costs us $550.00.

I've updated the PSU in my cart to - 1x Seasonic XP-1000 Platinum 1000W Power Supply - $309.00

Do I need 1000w? going forward I will probably add a second card so not sure exactly what size PSU to get.

Also with the Graphics cards I get a bit confused regarding what makes a powerful card. The GTX 780 is 3gb while the R9 290x is 4gb there is obviously more to it than just GBs so what is it that you guys look for?
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post #109 of 587 Old 11-05-2013, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Squidjammer View Post

Do I need 1000w? going forward I will probably add a second card so not sure exactly what size PSU to get.

Yeah, 1000w is still a bit overkill, even for two GPUs. Check out this wattage calculator for a rough estimate.

Maybe something like this one? Still plenty of juice, and that one runs fanless at low loads. Eye or the other hardware dudes would be able to speak better then me, I'm just a gamer. biggrin.gif
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post #110 of 587 Old 11-05-2013, 11:23 AM
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If you plan to overclock you CPU and GPU(s) you'll want at least 1000w.

An overclocked 4770K pulls almost 200w under load, an Ivy Bridge-E hex core pulls double that. An unlocked and overclocked 780 can pull 440w under load. So no 1000w is not overkill if you OC. If you're going to run stock, you'd be ok with an 800 to be on the safe side

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post #111 of 587 Old 11-05-2013, 11:25 AM
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Can't edit on my phone lol. But in regards to the video card. The 780 and the 290X are on par with each other in gaming, that extra gb of VRAM won't make a difference yet. But the 780 runs MUCH cooler than the 290X, 25c cooler in most cases. And with the 780Ti around the corner, I'd say wait and see

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post #112 of 587 Old 11-10-2013, 08:04 AM
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Ok, I have another question. I have a very good friend that is a manager at best buy. He always knocks a lot off the price for big purchases for me. I mean a really substantial amount. If I was to buy all the parts from them (delivered through the mail after the horror stories from in store stuff) what would you recommend for a pretty good gaming PC (building it myself). I want to be able to play bf4 at least at 1080p at a high frame rate. Do they not sell good parts? My buddy will definitely be able to give me a really good price. I can also use my best buy credit card and get rewards. Sorry to ask, if they sell good parts it would be better for me that way.
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post #113 of 587 Old 11-10-2013, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LETH2AL View Post

Ok, I have another question. I have a very good friend that is a manager at best buy. He always knocks a lot off the price for big purchases for me. I mean a really substantial amount. If I was to buy all the parts from them (delivered through the mail after the horror stories from in store stuff) what would you recommend for a pretty good gaming PC (building it myself). I want to be able to play bf4 at least at 1080p at a high frame rate. Do they not sell good parts? My buddy will definitely be able to give me a really good price. I can also use my best buy credit card and get rewards. Sorry to ask, if they sell good parts it would be better for me that way.

The problem is they have a very SMALL selection, at least in store. I haven't checked online. My suggestion would be to use the list I made for you and get as close to that as possible, and find out what your cost would be.

EDIT:

OK so they don't have the case, or motherboard. In fact they only have 3 Socket 1150 motherboards it looks like and they all seem to be ATX instead of Micro ATX.

But you can get the CPU, a similar GPU, similar RAM, similar power supply, same hard drive, similar blu-ray drive (if you want it), a similar low profile CPU cooler, and Windows there.

You'll just have to buy the case and motherboard elsewhere

Total for just those parts at Best Buy is $1102 for me with Cali taxes.

So if your buddy can get you a really good deal, you can just spend an extra $160-ish on the case + Motherboard and be set for around the same price if that's the route you want to go.

For reference - Parts list from BB

CPU
GPU
RAM
HDD
BR Burner
PSU
OS
CPU Cooler

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post #114 of 587 Old 11-10-2013, 02:18 PM
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Thanks again.
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post #115 of 587 Old 11-11-2013, 01:05 PM
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A great and timely thread: Thanks to the OP for starting it. I'm in the process of moving from console (xbox360) to PC-based gaming. What I want to do is cannibalize my current general productivity PC (based on Intel i5-2400 Sandy Bridge CPU w Asrock M-ATX mobo) and retrofit it for an effective gaming PC. Note that when I built this PC a couple of years ago, I never intended to use it for gaming as I had the xbox for that. Indeed, the only reason I chose an i5 CPU is that I also use this box for movie and music CD ripping and my ripping software for music (DB Poweramp) can leverage multiple CPU cores for faster rips). However, space for the hardware sitting on a small part of my desk is tight so a large part of my motivation for moving to the PC is to eliminate the clutter of a AV receiver plus xbox and only use the PC with a SoundBlaster multi-channel card combined with a very compact five channel power amp (I'll save it's identity for later but it sounds great and has some unusual features) cool.gif.

Though I'm reasonably well-versed on hardware requirements for HTPCs, I'm not so knowledgeable on gaming hardware so I hope the community can offer some suggestions. My plan at present is to remove everything except the power supply (which I know is underpowered for gaming: ~ 400W) from my current M-ATX case and move it to a new, admittedly small case that can take standard sized power supplies. At present I'm leaning toward the 850W Seasonic DaverJ mentioned previously. Questions:

Does my current Intel i5-2400 Sandy Bridge CPU provide enough processing power?
The graphic card I have in mind at present is EVGA's NVidia based GTX-760. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DHW4HXY/ref=gno_cart_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER. Will it, combined with my current i5 suffice for quality gaming in the near-term?

I'll concede in advance that the new case I have in mind is small, but this is by design as desktop space is rather limited. It also visually compliments my amp nicely. Based on reviews I've read it should be just large enough to accept the EVGA and SoundBlaster cards: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005LIDU5S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I'm going to have to think about storage. My current PC has two 120 Corsair SSDs (one primary one quasi-hot spare) plus a Samsung 250GB laptop drive for storing daily system images for backup purposes. In an ideal world, I'd like to get a relatively large SSD (~500GB and use it for the OS, apps (I don't have many) and games, then use either a 500GB to 750GB 2.5" laptop drive (given the tight interior dimensions of the case) or similar sized 3.5 drive for system backups. The only downside to this is the cost of the larger SSD. If I store, say, two dozen PC games do any of you know roughly what king of drive space is consumed?

How about RAM? At present I have 4GB of DDR3 PC1600 memory. How much is required for smooth gaming (8GB, 16GB)? Further, does speed matter PC1866, PC2400, etc.?

This new productivity/gaming PC will be connected to a 47" 1080P LG LCD TV that I use as a PC monitor at a viewing distance of 3-4 feet (big screen effect for sure) biggrin.gif I also have four (no physical room for fifth center channel speaker) low cost, yet decent Pyle full ranges satellite speakers combined with a Atlantic Technology 10" powered sub for surround sound playback.

Any parts I cannibalize from my current PC that can't be used for the gaming PC will go to use as a test PC I intend to build. I already have the open case frame for it so no parts will go to waste.

In summary, my main questions are:
* Can I use my current Intel i5 CPU successfully?
* What RAM is required?
* Will a single EVGA GTX-760 work well on the video side?
* How much storage space will I need for a couple of dozen downloaded, mainstream games (Bioshock, ME trilogy, Borderlands 1 and 2, etc)?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

Eric
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post #116 of 587 Old 11-11-2013, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Welcome to the thread Eric!

I can offer more comments later tonight, and I'm sure Eye will jump in about the i5-2400 and other hardware advice. If it means anything, I'm gaming on a i5-3570k, and no problems from the CPU side of things.

I would consider going up to at least 8gigs RAM. Match the speed you have, i don't think super-high speed RAM does that much for general gaming. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. tongue.gif

the GTX760 is a good card, so depending on your expectations you should hit 60fps most of the time at 1080p. You might need to dial back on AA or a minor feature of some games, but dialing back really doesn't look much different while playing. Seriously, much of the "extreme" eye-candy is invisible to me most of the time.

I'll post some Steam game sizes for the games you mentioned tonight, if someone doesn't beat me to it. smile.gif
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post #117 of 587 Old 11-11-2013, 01:59 PM
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The i5-2400 isn't bad, nor is it great. it's mid-range, but as you're preferring to cannibalize (can be a very good money saver) it will do you fine for now. it's not a slouch by any means, and being as you're putting it in a small case, and probably not wanting to overclock, it'll do you fine.

The 760 is a phenomenal bang-for-your-buck card, and a great budget choice. No problems there. As Daver pointed out, with some tweaks to your settings in game, you can manage 60fps most likely. You'll probably just want to make sure AA is off, and things like DoF, Ambient Occlusion, and particle effects are lowered.

An 850w PSU in a system like you're making is complete overkill. that CPU is an 84w power draw at 100% load, and the 760 is sub 200w. Unless you plan to cnnibalize this build at a later date, you don't need that much power. a 500-600w would be more than enough (although this is coming from the guy running a 1000w PSU when a 700w would be enough lol)

You definitely want to double your RAM to 8gb, 4 just barely cuts it nowadays. If you can get it cheap, go for 16. 1600 RAM is fine as very few games actually prefer faster RAM. BF4 being the only one I know of.

- Bioshock Infinite 17.35gb
- Borderlands 12.6gb
- Borderlands 2 10.5gb
- ME trilogy 37.6gb for all three games

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post #118 of 587 Old 11-11-2013, 02:36 PM
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Hey great thread idea!

I'll be keeping an eye on it to try and help others out as well.

A thing to note about PC gaming is the sky really is the limit on how much you want to spend on a build...best part about it though is that you can start out small and just keep adding to it!

Also, dont be afraid to go a generation older on the CPU as you can usually get somethign with similar performance for a better price. For Instance, the Sand Bridge CPUs seem to overclock better than the Ivy Bridge and the Haswell really isnt worth the money if you like to overclock your system.
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post #119 of 587 Old 11-11-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

Hey great thread idea!

I'll be keeping an eye on it to try and help others out as well.

A thing to note about PC gaming is the sky really is the limit on how much you want to spend on a build...best part about it though is that you can start out small and just keep adding to it!

Also, dont be afraid to go a generation older on the CPU as you can usually get somethign with similar performance for a better price. For Instance, the Sand Bridge CPUs seem to overclock better than the Ivy Bridge and the Haswell really isnt worth the money if you like to overclock your system.

I'll respectfully disagree, they all OC well, some better than others, and it really depends on your chip. You could buy 2 of the same CPU and one could clock better than the other. I have my Haswell i7 clocked at 4.3Ghz with little effort.

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post #120 of 587 Old 11-11-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Welcome to the thread Eric!

I can offer more comments later tonight, and I'm sure Eye will jump in about the i5-2400 and other hardware advice. If it means anything, I'm gaming on a i5-3570k, and no problems from the CPU side of things.

I would consider going up to at least 8gigs RAM. Match the speed you have, i don't think super-high speed RAM does that much for general gaming. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. tongue.gif

the GTX760 is a good card, so depending on your expectations you should hit 60fps most of the time at 1080p. You might need to dial back on AA or a minor feature of some games, but dialing back really doesn't look much different while playing. Seriously, much of the "extreme" eye-candy is invisible to me most of the time.

I'll post some Steam game sizes for the games you mentioned tonight, if someone doesn't beat me to it. smile.gif

Thanks so much for the advice. I'll just buy 8GB of RAM new so there is no risk of timing mismatch with the legacy sticks. Though any modern mobo can deal with a mismatch why risk it at current RAM prices? I can use the current 4GB in my pending Test PC.

Based on feedback so far I'll start with my legacy i5. I enjoy gaming but only really only play on occasion as time permits so I'm not the type that will demand the best hardware. I'm really shooting for good enough (60hz at 1080p fits that bill).

Eric
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