The official AVS "PC Game Console" thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 587 Old 12-03-2013, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

IMO the new consoles blew it because of the exact things you mentioned. They only did last gen better. And completely left out backward compatibility in an ecosystem that was already HD. A major strategic error IMO. One that will become more apparent as time goes by. That omission does not plague PC gamers as they constantly upgrade their systems into "Next Generation" whenever they want too.

That's probably the best way to describe it, simply doing last gen( which dragged on) better. No new tech to salivate over. It's just left me with a feeling of indifference, sort of a 'THIS is it?' vibe. Though I can't claim to know exactly what 'next gen' meant to me this time around, nothing offered so far inspires me to pluck down the cash. And the odd exclusive aside, its getting harder for me to justify multiple consoles as I have always been one to buy every one of them. My current plan is to build a serious gaming rig, I'm thinking next summer when the next round of video cards are released.
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Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #212 of 587 Old 12-03-2013, 07:45 AM
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Broke down and ordered a GTX 770 (upgrading from a 760)...was trying to hold out for the 800 series, but found too good of a deal to pass up. Anyone wanna buy a 760 for $225?

I just can't get enough antialiasing lol....every time I get a new card I push it higher and higher, and it never seems to be enough. Even the slightest jagged edge or shimmer bothers me now. Ahh PC gaming...

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post #213 of 587 Old 12-03-2013, 08:21 AM
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I just can't get enough antialiasing lol....every time I get a new card I push it higher and higher, and it never seems to be enough. Even the slightest jagged edge or shimmer bothers me now. Ahh PC gaming...

lol, another AA junky. I'm the same way. Luckily, between my 770 and JVC RS56, most jaggies are eliminated.
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post #214 of 587 Old 12-03-2013, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Speaking of AA and keeping with the theme of the thread, I played the PC version of Assassin's Creed III @ 1080p and there were times when the jaggies drove me nuts, especially the masts of the boats in Boston Harbor.

Currently I'm playing Assassin's Creed IV on PS4 @ 1080p, and the jaggies aren't bad at all - I barely notice them.

The reason is my Samsung LCD TV has a PC input that produces a pixel-perfect desktop, and the PS4 is on a different HDMI input using Game mode. This non-PC input gives me more setting options, and I can dial down the sharpness so the jaggies are less pronounced, but details are still fine and crisp.

I guess what I'm saying is 1080p has a sweet spot that's good and bad. It produces a nicer HD image (especially small text and desktop) than 720p without the game performance-killing of 4K. But the downside is jaggies in games - 720p softens the jaggies, and 4k has enough pixels to produce diagonal lines without stair-steps. So poor ol' 1080p is in-between, and the solution is either soften the image, which can ruin the nice, razor sharp desktop, or drive myself crazy employing different AA methods or super-sampling which may or may not be satisfactory, and can also be performance killing.

Consoles' lack of graphics options does makes it so I'm spending all my time simply playing, instead of fussing with "can I reduce the jaggies without a drop in framerate anywhere in the game?" redface.gif
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post #215 of 587 Old 12-03-2013, 09:27 AM
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The GTX 770 is one heck of a card! Sure there are the 780, Titan, and 780Ti but the 770 really hits the sweet spot of price vs. performance in my opinion.

I'm still rocking my GTX 560Ti but I have no money to upgrade or anything....so BD, if you cant get rid of your 760 you can always donate it to me!

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post #216 of 587 Old 12-03-2013, 10:25 AM
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I was very close to buying the 1tb samsung SSD on amazon's lightning deal. $489 was the cheapest I've ever seen it. The price per gigabyte is more affordable than anything below that size. But I just couldn't get over that price for a single HD. I'm gonna save my money for family gifts and then probably either a monitor or another 770 down the line.

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post #217 of 587 Old 12-03-2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Speaking of AA and keeping with the theme of the thread, I played the PC version of Assassin's Creed III @ 1080p and there were times when the jaggies drove me nuts, especially the masts of the boats in Boston Harbor.

Currently I'm playing Assassin's Creed IV on PS4 @ 1080p, and the jaggies aren't bad at all - I barely notice them.

The reason is my Samsung LCD TV has a PC input that produces a pixel-perfect desktop, and the PS4 is on a different HDMI input using Game mode. This non-PC input gives me more setting options, and I can dial down the sharpness so the jaggies are less pronounced, but details are still fine and crisp.

I guess what I'm saying is 1080p has a sweet spot that good and bad. It produces a nicer HD image (especially small text and desktop) than 720p without the game performance-killing of 4K. But the downside is jaggies in games - 720p softens the jaggies, and 4k has enough pixels to produce diagonal lines without stair-steps. So poor ol' 1080p is in-between, and the solution is either soften the image, which can ruin the nice, razor sharp desktop, or drive myself crazy employing different AA methods or super-sampling which may or may not be satisfactory, and can also be performance killing.

Consoles lack of graphics options does makes it so I'm spending all my time simply playing, instead of fussing with "can I reduce the jaggies without a drop in framerate anywhere in the game?" redface.gif

Yeah, I hear you. I do kind of enjoy the fiddling in a way, I appreciate being able to squeeze every last drop of image quality out of my card though. The annoying part to me is how user unfriendly that can be - most games just don't have enough AA options. Nowadays some just offer you an opaque "antialiasing" checkbox and it's usually an iffy post-process solution that does nothing for temporal aliasing and transparencies, so every little blade of grass shimmers like crazy. Other gives you too many options (BF4 has multiple levels of post process, MSAA and SSAA.)

I really like the soft, artifact free look of SGSSAA or TXAA...but very few games support TXAA. And for SGSSAA you need to dive into nvidia inspector and start looking up AA compatibility bits and it's just a ton of trial and error, which requires constant restarts of the game since it's all driver-level stuff. I love the end result but the process is so damn tedious. It looks so good in the end though. smile.gif

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post #218 of 587 Old 12-03-2013, 11:48 AM
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this is a post that I think many will find interesting, especially Barrelbelly as it is specifically about gamesfor the Oculus Rift.

I find "Alone" to be particularly interesting. Imagine playing a videogame on a TV screen in the videogame and then when things start happening you get scared and you look around the room and then there is a monster RIGHT NEXT TO YOU!

oops! forgot the link:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/01/10-games-thatll-make-you-want-an-oculus-rift
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post #219 of 587 Old 12-03-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I guess what I'm saying is 1080p has a sweet spot that good and bad. It produces a nicer HD image (especially small text and desktop) than 720p without the game performance-killing of 4K. But the downside is jaggies in games - 720p softens the jaggies, and 4k has enough pixels to produce diagonal lines without stair-steps. So poor ol' 1080p is in-between, and the solution is either soften the image, which can ruin the nice, razor sharp desktop, or drive myself crazy employing different AA methods or super-sampling which may or may not be satisfactory, and can also be performance killing. Consoles lack of graphics options does makes it so I'm spending all my time simply playing, instead of fussing with "can I reduce the jaggies without a drop in framerate anywhere in the game?" redface.gif

Want to get rid of the Jaggies and get an even better picture? Spring for an open box Darbee Darblet 5000 or Cobalt for $250 or less at Solid Signal or the AVS Store. Use the "Game" setting for use with your PC, or with your HDTV. And tweak the setting to your taste. You may be amaaaaaazed! That is the most awesome AV device I have ever used. I simply don't know how 4k x 2k can be made to look better than a 1080p 60 PC gaming setup with inline Darbee on Game settings. Unless it is 3D and VR. If enough people tried this amazing device in the HTPC area it would warrant its own thread...just for discussion about optimum tweaks/GPU setups.

I initially bought one last summer to squeeze the last ounce of 1080i detail out of my stunning Hitachi HD 65F59 RPCRTV. That huge calibrated Dinosaur...with Darbee...still blows away anything I have ever seen with film & movies (Blu-Ray...HDDVD...DVD...and Laser Disk). I was all set to part with the Hitachi for a 65" Panny Plasma. But Darbee made that decision moot. But it led me to explore using it with my 1080p PC and console game setup. Immediate gaming heaven! :DI Pretty much eliminated every single weird artifact that bothered me. Including jaggies. And it imparted a decided soft...in-screen 3D quality to my games...which didn't compromise any detail...that was just awesome. Color depth and shadow/shading details just literally exploded to life in games like BioShock Infinite and Tomb Raider. Many posters over on the Darbee thread (in Video Processor Area) claimed the same benefits with games. Needless to say I bought 2 more Darbee 5000's...a dedicated one for my PC and one for my wife. She hates my technology obsession. But surprisingly loved the enhancements and clarity that Darbee imparted on her tongue.gif 32 inch bedroom HDTV. It was quite noticeable to her and me.

So if you have the shekels...give it a try. If you don't like it... or don't see a meaningful difference...you can return it within 30-90 days.
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post #220 of 587 Old 12-03-2013, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

this is a post that I think many will find interesting, especially Barrelbelly as it is specifically about gamesfor the Oculus Rift.

I find "Alone" to be particularly interesting. Imagine playing a videogame on a TV screen in the videogame and then when things start happening you get scared and you look around the room and then there is a monster RIGHT NEXT TO YOU!

oops! forgot the link:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/01/10-games-thatll-make-you-want-an-oculus-rift

Smack dab on the money Kimeran! That IS Next Gen gaming experience personified. My PC and wallet are poised and ready to jump on this bandwagon on day one! I don't care what the early warts are. I'll even enjoy tweaking...patching and debugging the warts just to get to the meat of the experience. I could see buying at least 20 games at launch just to experience with this thing. Even though I'll tiptoe into the horror stuff like Alone. Can you imagine what the Bioshock Trinity and Dead Space will be like in VR? But the real launch gem that is coming (in 2014 or 2015) is a full VR version of Half Life 3 and VR remake of Portal 1 & 2 IMO. There is just way too much whispering and collaboration between OR and Valve for all of the rumors to be just smoke. Plus I am intrigued by what ID is planning to launch on PC to support the PC/Rift platform. They were in high collaborative mode through Carmack before he transitioned fully over to Oculus Rift. This is the launch where I will go full bore Crossfire or SLI mode to exploit the 4k 3D potential of Oculus Rift plans to offer (1080p/60 per eye). And go with a 39" traditional 1080p LED/LCD monitor with in-line Darbee for standard PC & Console gaming.
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post #221 of 587 Old 12-04-2013, 04:09 PM
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Smack dab on the money Kimeran! That IS Next Gen gaming experience personified. My PC and wallet are poised and ready to jump on this bandwagon on day one! I don't care what the early warts are. I'll even enjoy tweaking...patching and debugging the warts just to get to the meat of the experience. I could see buying at least 20 games at launch just to experience with this thing. Even though I'll tiptoe into the horror stuff like Alone. Can you imagine what the Bioshock Trinity and Dead Space will be like in VR? But the real launch gem that is coming (in 2014 or 2015) is a full VR version of Half Life 3 and VR remake of Portal 1 & 2 IMO. There is just way too much whispering and collaboration between OR and Valve for all of the rumors to be just smoke. Plus I am intrigued by what ID is planning to launch on PC to support the PC/Rift platform. They were in high collaborative mode through Carmack before he transitioned fully over to Oculus Rift. This is the launch where I will go full bore Crossfire or SLI mode to exploit the 4k 3D potential of Oculus Rift plans to offer (1080p/60 per eye). And go with a 39" traditional 1080p LED/LCD monitor with in-line Darbee for standard PC & Console gaming.

+1: If Microsoft or Sony really wanted to do "Next Generation", VR goggles should have been their solution (along with games optimized for it of course).
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post #222 of 587 Old 12-05-2013, 11:16 AM
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I cant afford this and I certainly dont have a GPU that can power it but this is showing that prices are already starting to come down for 4k monitors!

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/12/05/dell-introduces-1000-4k-monitor-a-step-towards-affordable-ultra-res-screens/
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post #223 of 587 Old 12-05-2013, 12:33 PM
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I cant afford this and I certainly dont have a GPU that can power it but this is showing that prices are already starting to come down for 4k monitors!

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/12/05/dell-introduces-1000-4k-monitor-a-step-towards-affordable-ultra-res-screens/

The operative word is "Patience". By 2015-2016 a 4k monitor will cost the same as todays better 1080p monitors. I even expect prices on them to start plunging in late 2014 to incentivize consumers toward mass adoption. If the big guys don't do it. Smaller and more aggressive companies like Seiku will. And steal the big guy's cheese. I also think 4k prices will plunge because OLED is a bigger deal. And that's where manufacturers will hold the high price tag for awhile. But we PC gamers will reap some super benefits with quality...low cost LED/LCD monitors with 4k before going after the nosebleed priced 4k OLED Monitors.
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post #224 of 587 Old 12-05-2013, 12:43 PM
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yep, I can see 4K being much more beneficial for a PC monitor than I can for a TV display cause you sit so much closer. However, it would be nice for those really big screens with projectors.

It will also be a few years before videocards can handle 4k without issue. I think I saw a benchmark on Anandtech that said that it takes 3 or 4 Titans to have decent frame rates at 4k. I think they were using Star Citizen for that test but I dont recall exactly.

I think I will be waiting a while before I get a new GPU as a result of this 4K push anyway. But as soon as there is one out that can do it I will be first in line!

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post #225 of 587 Old 12-05-2013, 01:45 PM
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yep, I can see 4K being much more beneficial for a PC monitor than I can for a TV display cause you sit so much closer. However, it would be nice for those really big screens with projectors.

It will also be a few years before videocards can handle 4k without issue. I think I saw a benchmark on Anandtech that said that it takes 3 or 4 Titans to have decent frame rates at 4k. I think they were using Star Citizen for that test but I dont recall exactly.

I think I will be waiting a while before I get a new GPU as a result of this 4K push anyway. But as soon as there is one out that can do it I will be first in line!

Well considering Star Citizen isn't expected to release until 2015, and Chris Roberts himself has said he's building that game for hardware THEN and not now. I don't think that's a fair game to benchmark with, as we'll have at least one new generation of cards. However, you CAN run most any game now at 4K on a single card (780, 780TI, Titan, 290X) It's all a matter of settings and type of game. If you want everything maxed at 4k? Well then yeah. If you can handle lowered settings, then you certainly can push 4K with 1 card right now.

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post #226 of 587 Old 12-05-2013, 09:26 PM
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See you guys in a few weeks. Motherboard died tonight so now I have to RMA it and God knows how long that's going to take.

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post #227 of 587 Old 12-05-2013, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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See you guys in a few weeks. Motherboard died tonight so now I have to RMA it and God knows how long that's going to take.

Oh noes! Get cyber-well soon!
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post #228 of 587 Old 12-05-2013, 09:37 PM
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See you guys in a few weeks. Motherboard died tonight so now I have to RMA it and God knows how long that's going to take.

You're going to throw all of the guys you prepped a build for into severe heart flutter with that comment Eye! eek.gif What did you do? throw a 290X in there? biggrin.gif Hurry back...we'll miss you. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
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post #229 of 587 Old 12-05-2013, 09:46 PM
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See you guys in a few weeks. Motherboard died tonight so now I have to RMA it and God knows how long that's going to take.

You're going to throw all of the guys you prepped a build for into severe heart flutter with that comment Eye! eek.gif What did you do? throw a 290X in there? biggrin.gif Hurry back...we'll miss you. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Pfft, if I threw a 290X in, at least it would be warm in my room and not 50 degrees.

Nah, I actually wasn't doing much of anything, I was browsing the net and talking with a couple friends on Teamspeak when it just shut off lol. After some poking around, concluded it was the motherboard. Have to start the RMA process tomorrow as they closed up shop for the day before it even happened.

But yeah, not like I have my Xbox One to play with either, had to RMA that due to the non working disc drive problem lol. Just a ball of crap the size of an asteroid hitting me in the face lately.

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post #230 of 587 Old 12-05-2013, 10:33 PM
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Did you have a voltage spike? And I'm sure you checked the PSU when you were poking around. Are you sure it's the MOBO? The reason I ask is mine did the exact same thing about a month ago while just browsing the web. And it actually was a Windows 7 problem. When I ran Windows repair tool, it was restored and fine. And it has never done it again. But since it went down, the WEI data has been off. Example: it reads my AMD 8350 CPU as 4 core, when before it read it correctly as 8 core. And it reads my GPU incorrectly as DX 10...when before it read it correctly as DX 11.1. But since the correct information shows up in DX Diag and CPU maintenance, I didn't worry about it.
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post #231 of 587 Old 12-06-2013, 01:19 AM
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Did you have a voltage spike? And I'm sure you checked the PSU when you were poking around. Are you sure it's the MOBO? The reason I ask is mine did the exact same thing about a month ago while just browsing the web. And it actually was a Windows 7 problem. When I ran Windows repair tool, it was restored and fine. And it has never done it again. But since it went down, the WEI data has been off. Example: it reads my AMD 8350 CPU as 4 core, when before it read it correctly as 8 core. And it reads my GPU incorrectly as DX 10...when before it read it correctly as DX 11.1. But since the correct information shows up in DX Diag and CPU maintenance, I didn't worry about it.

Oh very sure. It doesn't post. PSU is fine and still puts out power. The mobo still receives power (the Start and Reset buttons on the bottom of it light) but the upper portion just doesn't function. Checked everything else including the CPU as I first thought it was my H100i cooler, but nope its 100% the board.

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post #232 of 587 Old 12-06-2013, 08:56 AM
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Well considering Star Citizen isn't expected to release until 2015, and Chris Roberts himself has said he's building that game for hardware THEN and not now. I don't think that's a fair game to benchmark with, as we'll have at least one new generation of cards. However, you CAN run most any game now at 4K on a single card (780, 780TI, Titan, 290X) It's all a matter of settings and type of game. If you want everything maxed at 4k? Well then yeah. If you can handle lowered settings, then you certainly can push 4K with 1 card right now.

I'd really like to see what games and reports you have seen on this. Last I read on that $3.5k Asus 4k monitor it takes pretty much a minimum of two GTX 780 to get a decent frame rate according to Toms Hardware.

Sure you can get a 4k screen and then turn down the resolution, but thats not 4k gaming...

Here is the article for reference:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pq321q-4k-gaming,3620.html

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post #233 of 587 Old 12-06-2013, 01:44 PM
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Well considering Star Citizen isn't expected to release until 2015, and Chris Roberts himself has said he's building that game for hardware THEN and not now. I don't think that's a fair game to benchmark with, as we'll have at least one new generation of cards. However, you CAN run most any game now at 4K on a single card (780, 780TI, Titan, 290X) It's all a matter of settings and type of game. If you want everything maxed at 4k? Well then yeah. If you can handle lowered settings, then you certainly can push 4K with 1 card right now.

I'd really like to see what games and reports you have seen on this. Last I read on that $3.5k Asus 4k monitor it takes pretty much a minimum of two GTX 780 to get a decent frame rate according to Toms Hardware.

Sure you can get a 4k screen and then turn down the resolution, but thats not 4k gaming...

Here is the article for reference:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pq321q-4k-gaming,3620.html

It's all subjective, I never said turn the resolution down. My 780 could drive FFXIV maxed out at 4K in the low 30s and still playable. Every person's idea of "decent frame rate" is different. Turn down settings, not resolution, and any of those 4 cards I listed can run most things at 4K with what I consider playable frame rates. Maxed out 60? Of course not. Playable imo? Absolutely.

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post #234 of 587 Old 12-06-2013, 01:48 PM
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Btw, look at the settings they used in those benches... Really? Using 4xMSAA with 4K? Totally and completely unnecessary and arbitrarily skewing the results. There is absolutely NO reason to use AA of any kind at 4K.

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post #235 of 587 Old 12-06-2013, 01:56 PM
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Every game in that test is maxed out on settings and uses some form of AA (again, unnecessary at that resolution) and the lowest performing is ArmA III. A game series that notoriously poorly optimized and NOT a good benchmark to use. But again, as I said, turn off the pointless AA and all games will be running at 30+. Turn down some other settings, and you can get yourself to 50-60 @ 4K.

My 780 HoF outperforms a Titan. Any non-reference 780 will beat a Titan in gaming. So yes, you can push 4K on a single card with some tweaking.

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post #236 of 587 Old 12-07-2013, 11:24 PM
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post #237 of 587 Old 12-08-2013, 12:12 AM
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For some reason the first 4 links don't work for me, but I assume that's an 8350 you're looking at? I see nothing wrong with that build for the budget, should handle everything nicely on high for most games, maxed for some, and others medium. Great build for around 1K. If you can squeeze out $35 more, step up to 16GB or RAM. 8 is becoming the new minimum very fast. 2gb for Windows, and upwards of 6 for games. I've seen some reports of BF4 taking nearly 7gb (most likely a mem-leak but still)

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post #238 of 587 Old 12-08-2013, 09:16 AM
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Yeah, It's an 8350. Do you think there's a need for an aftermarket cooler for that thing? I chose only 8 gig RAM due to budget and figured he could just pop in more once he got the cash. I don't know where you get your RAM, but mine was way more expensive than that. Weird that some of the links don't work - I checked them and they seem fine.

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post #239 of 587 Old 12-08-2013, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Yeah, It's an 8350. Do you think there's a need for an aftermarket cooler for that thing?

Aftermarket cooling is mainly for overclocking, and/or noise. Stock cooling does a decent job for most non-enthusiasts' computers.
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post #240 of 587 Old 12-08-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Yeah, It's an 8350. Do you think there's a need for an aftermarket cooler for that thing? I chose only 8 gig RAM due to budget and figured he could just pop in more once he got the cash. I don't know where you get your RAM, but mine was way more expensive than that. Weird that some of the links don't work - I checked them and they seem fine.

As DaverJ said, aftermarket is for noise and overclocking. Stock will be fine.

As to the RAM. It was 16GB of Kingston on NCIX when I looked last night, $134.99

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