PC cards that can do 4K with HDMI 2.0 on them.... when ? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
HTPC Gaming > PC cards that can do 4K with HDMI 2.0 on them.... when ?
Anthony1's Avatar Anthony1 06:05 PM 05-03-2014
Since all the 4K TV's are going to use hdmi 2.0, then we need the video cards with 2.0 on them. Anybody know when they are coming ?

I'm trying to hold out till Spring 2015, but my trigger finger is itchy right now. I'm really liking that 55 inch and 65 inch Sony 4K displays. Unfortunately, both are priced higher than I want to go. 55 is $2500, and the 65 is $3500. I'd love to pay $1999 for that 55 or maybe $2750 for that 65, so I guess I'll be on the sidelines anyways.

bd2003's Avatar bd2003 09:07 AM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

Since all the 4K TV's are going to use hdmi 2.0, then we need the video cards with 2.0 on them. Anybody know when they are coming ?

I'm trying to hold out till Spring 2015, but my trigger finger is itchy right now. I'm really liking that 55 inch and 65 inch Sony 4K displays. Unfortunately, both are priced higher than I want to go. 55 is $2500, and the 65 is $3500. I'd love to pay $1999 for that 55 or maybe $2750 for that 65, so I guess I'll be on the sidelines anyways.

 

Supposedly the nvidia 800 series just taped out, so about 3-4 months.


Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 09:54 PM 05-04-2014
Yup. Probably later this year from both nVidia and AMD and if not then both will have them available by the end of the year, I'm sure.

Also.... for anyone but aimed at you Anthony.... interested in 4K/UHD? Keep waiting until it's ready for you as I know that you (and many of us) are ready for it. smile.gif
LexInVA's Avatar LexInVA 11:31 AM 05-06-2014
We'll see more high-end single-tile 4K monitors hit beginning in June - Computex Taipei launches - but they probably won't have HDMI 2.0 and will be packing DisplayPort. HDMI 2.0 looks like it will get a soft launch for the holidays with the new 4K TVs that will be pushed with a big rollout in 2015 with the launch of new hardware from Intel/AMD/Nvidia to go with the consumer-priced 4K displays that will be unveiled at CES.
Anthony1's Avatar Anthony1 10:48 PM 05-06-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post


Also.... for anyone but aimed at you Anthony.... interested in 4K/UHD? Keep waiting until it's ready for you as I know that you (and many of us) are ready for it. smile.gif


Yeah... 4K....

The thing is, I have mixed feelings about 4K. I jumped on the 3D bandwagon, and that didn't work out so well, as far as I was concerned. Basically, it wasn't the next big thing, like I was hoping it would be. I know that there are movies and games in 3D, but I was thinking I was also going to be watching the NFL in 3D, and TV shows like Game of Thrones would be in 3D, etc, etc. I thought that maybe it was going to be the next big thing, and it wasn't.

So this has me cautious with this 4K stuff. I spent well over an hour in a Best Buy the other day, and I was really looking hard at the 4K displays that they had there. They had various Sony models, and they also had this curved Samsung that was actually quite impressive. I was expecting to hate these curved TV's, but I actually came away quite impressed. It might not have had anything to do with the fact that it was curved, but it just looked very, very good, but it was unbelievably expensive. Some of the stuff I see in 4K looks really really good, and some of it is very underwhelming. When I was watching scenes from Spiderman or Eleysium, it was pretty damn impressive, but on these other demo reels with guys riding around on dirt bikes, I just didn't see anything that really popped out to me. I mean, it looked ok, but I didn't see anything that screamed 4K.

One thing that was very interesting though, was the salesperson showed me a clip of Gran Turismo 6 for the PS3 running on the Sony 4K upscaled, and it actually looked really, really, really good, but it was just the replays, and you know how replays of racing games always look great.


I can tell you this though, if I did get a 4K display, then I'm definitely getting a better PC video card with HDMI 2.0 when those come down the pipe.
bd2003's Avatar bd2003 05:34 AM 05-07-2014
It's just a higher resolution, nothing really that magical about it. For PC games at least, it doesn't even need explicit support. Just pick a higher resolution.
Anthony1's Avatar Anthony1 08:36 PM 05-07-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

It's just a higher resolution, nothing really that magical about it. For PC games at least, it doesn't even need explicit support. Just pick a higher resolution.

The magical thing about it, is that we are going to finally see a resolution beyond 1080p on mass consumer devices. Other than 30 inch PC monitors, it's hard to find anything that can go a bit higher than 1080p. We all know the limits of 1080p, we don't know the limits of 4K yet. The end results might be a bit disappointing but it's one of those things that you have to see for yourself.
bd2003's Avatar bd2003 08:44 PM 05-07-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post


The magical thing about it, is that we are going to finally see a resolution beyond 1080p on mass consumer devices. Other than 30 inch PC monitors, it's hard to find anything that can go a bit higher than 1080p. We all know the limits of 1080p, we don't know the limits of 4K yet. The end results might be a bit disappointing but it's one of those things that you have to see for yourself.

 

There's lots of places to see what 4K would look like. Movie theaters are 4K. Modern smartphones have pixel densities much higher even. It's nothing more than a sharper image. It's nice, but nothing particularly game changing. From the 4K TVs I've seen in best buy running 4K content, it's actually pretty underwhelming...I'd take a 1080p OLED with perfect color and perfect blacks over 4K any day.


Anthony1's Avatar Anthony1 09:07 PM 05-07-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

There's lots of places to see what 4K would look like. Movie theaters are 4K. Modern smartphones have pixel densities much higher even. It's nothing more than a sharper image. It's nice, but nothing particularly game changing. From the 4K TVs I've seen in best buy running 4K content, it's actually pretty underwhelming...I'd take a 1080p OLED with perfect color and perfect blacks over 4K any day.

I'm talking more from a gaming standpoint. We haven't really seen games designed to run at such resolutions, or with assets that can take advantage of such resolutions. It's going to take a few years before we really see any games specifically trying to push 4K assets, but eventually it's going to happen. Of course, by that time, I might be more interested in the Oculus Rift.
bd2003's Avatar bd2003 09:31 PM 05-07-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post


I'm talking more from a gaming standpoint. We haven't really seen games designed to run at such resolutions, or with assets that can take advantage of such resolutions. It's going to take a few years before we really see any games specifically trying to push 4K assets, but eventually it's going to happen. Of course, by that time, I might be more interested in the Oculus Rift.

 

There's no such thing as 4K assets. Games can already take advantage of well above 4K. Here's some pics of games at 12264 x 4000, more than 5 times the pixel count of 4K:

 

http://www.overclock.net/t/1487232/56k-warning-49-megapixel-gaming-test-warning-cell-phones-too

 

The textures are more than detailed enough to use every individual pixel, even relatively close up. All the shader effects are per pixel as well, so every pixel gets put to good use. The extra resolution also brings out a lot of detail in distant poly meshes, etc. There really isn't anything left to do. There's even some pics of HL2, a game that came out 10 years ago, and even it takes advantage of every pixel. Modern games are designed to run at any resolution.     


RLBURNSIDE's Avatar RLBURNSIDE 10:09 AM 05-08-2014
That's ridiculous. Not all game assets are created, let alone stored or distributed in 4K or anywhere close, in fact very few are. But what would I know, I've only worked on several AAA titles at major companies. Texel densities are one of those things that engender a performance and memory tradeoff that must be taken into account when figuring out how much to store on that game DVD or download. You will simply trade off super high texel density for a smaller overall level, or more streaming and loading. In short, there is a practical limit to the visual benefit of super high res textures, and all kinds of considerations to be taken into account.

PC versions of games often have higher res textures than consoles it's true, but even then, the majority of gamers are still playing at 1440p or 1080p or thereabouts, and shipping a game with 4K assets is simply ridiculous because 99.9999% of people out there do not have UHD displays and so could not benefit from it. It results in longer download times, slower streaming, smaller levels, longer level load times. In short, you are completely wrong.

Going forward, yes, 4K assets will become more widely distributed in the base game for PC versions, rather than in DLCs or texture mods. But we are not there yet. Even if your character walks right up to a wall that's 16:9 and ends up with a 1:1 texel to pixel mapping (say, with orthogonal projection on), that just means you should make your assets 1080p or 1440p at most. And in practice, in non-orthogonally mapped 3D viewports such as in 3D games, you do not, and cannot, benefit from a greater texel density than your display resolution. It's a logical impossibility.

ps I can't wait for HDMI 2.0 videocards! And also hopefully DP 1.2a and/or 1.3 too, with VESA standard Freesync built in. I'm waiting now...it will be hard chosing between AMD and NVidia at that point, since NVidia has much better 3D stereoscopic support in games.
bd2003's Avatar bd2003 10:40 AM 05-08-2014
The only reasonable exception is a texture intended to be viewed face on, full screen, such as the billboards in bioshock infinite. But it's such a marginal case it's almost not worth mentioning. Even without that high res texture, running in 4K is still superior because the full texture resolution would be viewable from a further distance.

So the good news is you don't need to wait on anything but a new GPU to fully take advantage of 4K (and above). Which is in stark contrast to the situation w/ pre-recorded video.
3dprojector's Avatar 3dprojector 02:59 PM 06-01-2014
how about this baby?it's too big for HTPC!

https://www.aja.com/en/products/kona-4#techspecs
davcc22's Avatar davcc22 07:26 AM 06-05-2014

if you want a 4k video card  for the "HTPC" id say a amd radion r9-270x  ripper little cards  ihave one ell the 7870 same thing differnt name and it eats anny game at 1080p


abustraan's Avatar abustraan 08:39 PM 06-06-2014

Just bought a 4K 3D LG 55" $1999 at Best Buy. My 10 year old LG DLP 44" just wasn't cutting it. The TV already has a HDMI 2.0 port, now I just need a card to support it.


davcc22's Avatar davcc22 01:13 AM 06-07-2014

what is your curent config???


abustraan's Avatar abustraan 10:10 AM 06-07-2014
Silverstone LC14
Intel 2500K CPU
Intel DH66BL Board PCIe 2.0 16
8GB
Onboard Video HDMI
Dual 60 GB Muskin SSD (Raid 0) OS
300 GB raptor for DVR.
davcc22's Avatar davcc22 09:57 PM 06-07-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by abustraan View Post

Silverstone LC14

Intel 2500K CPU

Intel DH66BL Board PCIe 2.0 16

8GB

Onboard Video HDMI

Dual 60 GB Muskin SSD (Raid 0) OS

300 GB raptor for DVR.

 


hatev to ask but wahht is the power suply
abustraan's Avatar abustraan 10:19 PM 06-07-2014

Oh yeah it's an Antec 450


deanzsyclone's Avatar deanzsyclone 04:38 PM 06-08-2014
I'm in the same boat, I want to use a 50-55" uhd tv as my monitor which is helpful for editing my 4K footage... but only one tv has a display port input for the 60hz, (panasonic) and all the new tvs have hdmi 2.0 but no video cards do... ugh... So I guess I wait to see the 800's cards and hope they resolve my problem.. and run 4k gaming in SLI .
doctorwizz's Avatar doctorwizz 06:21 PM 07-03-2014
Nvidia's beta drivers do 60Hz @ 3840x2160 over HDMI 1.4. 600 series cards and up. Works great with my Samsung 8550 UHD TV. No SLI support yet. Color space is reduced to 4:2:0
DavidinCT's Avatar DavidinCT 10:14 AM 07-07-2014
It's just a matter of time.... I would bet by CES 2015, you will see all the wares from NVidia and ATI. I am also looking forward to a Display port to HDMI 2.0 adapter for people with UTVs with only Display port that can do 60hz...


A faster push would happen if we start seeing a lot of TV releases at a major drop in price from good brands, as the demand would be there. In the PC gaming side of it, maybe 2-5% of users have the gear to support UTV/4K, so as there are beta drivers, a full fledged card with HDMI 2.0/UTV support on the box is nothing we will see right away.


I'm still on a old 65" RPG 1080i set on my Home theater/gaming setup, was looking to move to 1080p about a year ago but, after doing some reading on UTV, all bets are off, I want to go directly to 4K. I want full HDMI 2.0 support from all HDMI ports and for the prices to drop a little...


My old Mits RPG with a HDfury3 (so I can use HDMI) and a scaler so I can use my Xbox one in 1080i will have to hold me out for just a little longer...


I would say by mid next year (based on trends for new tech on TVs, like 3D acceptance), is where I should be able to get what I want in a 65-75" set for the right price range.
bd2003's Avatar bd2003 11:02 AM 07-07-2014
At this point I'm way more interested in what displayport and g-sync/adaptive sync can do...and those cards already exist. So HDMI support is irrelevant in my eyes until it catches up with its own variable refresh rate solution.
Anthony1's Avatar Anthony1 01:47 PM 07-07-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorwizz View Post
Nvidia's beta drivers do 60Hz @ 3840x2160 over HDMI 1.4. 600 series cards and up. Works great with my Samsung 8550 UHD TV. No SLI support yet. Color space is reduced to 4:2:0

This sounds really interesting to me. I'd need a new video card, but I probably need to get one anyways..

I've been seeing those Seiki and HiSense 4K sets getting cheaper and cheaper on Slick Deals. The 55 inch and 50 inch version have gotten really cheap at different points. Kinda tempting, but no hdmi 2.0, so that's been something that has kept me from being too interested. But this new development makes me tempted to buy one of these big 50 inchers to use as a giant monitor.
doctorwizz's Avatar doctorwizz 01:56 PM 07-07-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post
This sounds really interesting to me. I'd need a new video card, but I probably need to get one anyways..

I've been seeing those Seiki and HiSense 4K sets getting cheaper and cheaper on Slick Deals. The 55 inch and 50 inch version have gotten really cheap at different points. Kinda tempting, but no hdmi 2.0, so that's been something that has kept me from being too interested. But this new development makes me tempted to buy one of these big 50 inchers to use as a giant monitor.
Still have not seen one conformation whether the beta drivers work or not with a Seiki.
They work with my Samsung 8550, but it supports 60Hz at 4K rez.
donjonmin 07:18 AM Today
Hello doctorwizz, which video card model are you using with your 8550 that outputs 60Hz 4K? Are there any developments with low profile cards that can outpu 4k via HDMI (30hz is ok for now) for HTPC use? I don't see any mid range cards having hdmi 2.0 right now. May be they will roll out in the middle or end of this year?

I see the geforcce mid-range 700 series cards' spec says it can output 4k 60hz thru displayport. But I couldn't find a video card with displayport. Do you know of any? Would a displayport to hdmi cable work given a card is available with displayport? I'm using a displayport to hdmi cable to a 1080p monitor, that works fine. But need 4K out to my 8540 uhd tv.
LexInVA's Avatar LexInVA 08:12 AM Today
Quote:
Originally Posted by donjonmin View Post
Hello doctorwizz, which video card model are you using with your 8550 that outputs 60Hz 4K? Are there any developments with low profile cards that can outpu 4k via HDMI (30hz is ok for now) for HTPC use? I don't see any mid range cards having hdmi 2.0 right now. May be they will roll out in the middle or end of this year?

I see the geforcce mid-range 700 series cards' spec says it can output 4k 60hz thru displayport. But I couldn't find a video card with displayport. Do you know of any? Would a displayport to hdmi cable work given a card is available with displayport? I'm using a displayport to hdmi cable to a 1080p monitor, that works fine. But need 4K out to my 8540 uhd tv.

It remains to be seen whether or not Nvidia will bother with low-end 4K GPUs in their next generation, but I know that the upcoming Pascal cards should likely all be HDMI 2.0 and DisplayPort 1.3, as DVI and VGA - the two inputs on all low-end cards - are being phased out. I expect a 4GB-8GB Pascal variant for the low-end/OEMs as the stacked memory will allow that with less power consumption than current cards.
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