Downsampling & Overclocking 101 (on a Vizio M-series TV) - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 10-02-2014, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
trey31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Downsampling & Overclocking 101 (on a Vizio M-series TV)

"What is Downsampling?" It is when you render a game at a higher resolution than it can natively be displayed at on the current monitor or TV.

"Why?" Because 2160p (4K) looks better than 1440p, and 1440p looks better than 1080p, even on a 1080p monitor.

"Isn't using Anti-Aliasing better and easier?" No. AA is great, but downsampling isn't just about getting rid of jagged edges. Texture details and lighting effects can look better when downsampled.

"I don't believe you and I'm going to argue with you about it, even though I've never used downsampling." Cool story bro. I'll just side with you now to avoid an internet sh!t pie throwing contest. You're right, I'm wrong bro. Have a cookie.

"Why overclock a monitor?" Because 60Hz sucks. 120Hz and BlurBusters are good sites to check out for more info.

"The Human eye can't tell the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz" Knock that crap off, it can too. Anyone who has used a 120Hz monitor and a mouse can tell you from experience.


On to the story:

NVIDIA users can open Control Panel and select Change Resolution, then Customize to create a custom resolution. Click test and if it works, great; save it and try it in games.

AMD/ATI users need to use ToastyX's utility CRU, Custom Resolution Utility. Also consider his Driver Restart utility so you don't have to reboot to test resolutions each time.



Both of the above methods will allow you to ATTEMPT to overclock and/or downsample your monitor or TV. If you get a blank screen it didn't work. If you don't, it might have; check out blurbusters frame skipping test after saving the custom resolution and take a photo of the screen to find out for sure.

All TV's and most monitors are going to be limited in what they can and cannot achieve in regards to overclocking and downsampling by their cable limitations. HDMI 1.3/1.4 cannot transmit beyond a 340 MHz pixel clock. HDMI 2.0 cannot transmit beyond 600MHz. Vizio M-series have a board limited maximum pixel clock of 313.99 MHz, 315 MHz can display, but shows significant artifacting.

Most TVs and monitors will be limited to 60Hz or thereabouts. Some advertised as 240Hz TVs may be able to accept and display 120Hz. Plasmas do not follow this rule. Most (all?) plasmas are limited to 60Hz; even if they were advertised as 600Hz or 1,530,000 Hz or whatever.

If your TV frame skips, but otherwise still properly displays 120Hz or higher, you should still go ahead and use a higher refresh resolution, if for no reason other than reduced input lag.



The NVIDIA downsample CHEAT (Kepler and newer cards):
NVIDIA custom resolutions allow the Desktop to be set differently from the Timings resolution. Basically it allows downsampling to be done on the PC (GPU) then downsampled and sent out at the Monitor/TVs native setting.


examples:

Spoiler!

This 1080p overclock (120Hz) setting works for Vizio M and E series sets.

Spoiler!

2560x1440 at 108Hz with 1080p Timings

Spoiler!

2880x1620 at 105Hz with 1080p Timings

Spoiler!

3200x1800 at 75Hz with 1080p Timings

Spoiler!

3600x2025 at 65Hz with 1080p Timings



Screenshots:
Spoiler!

Full Size here
Spoiler!

Full Size here
Spoiler!

Full Size here
Spoiler!

Full Size here

Any questions, feel free to ask. If you do though, please at least explain what you tried and what happened. Don't just post "y it no work 4 me?"

Last edited by trey31; 10-02-2014 at 11:04 PM.
trey31 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 10-06-2014, 07:19 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked: 1426
This is basically obsolete with maxwell cards, just use DSR, it's even better.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 10-07-2014, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
trey31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post
This is basically obsolete with maxwell cards, just use DSR, it's even better.
I haven't tested DSR yet myself, but reports are the blur slider is an issue; it breaks custom resolutions, including custom refresh rate clocks, cannot be used with multiple monitor setups, and its only currently available on the 980 and 970 cards.

My guess is less than 0.1% of PC video gamers have a 980/970, so downsampling is hardly "obsolete" when its the only readily available option for the majority of PC gamers; e.g. the other 99.9% of us.

If what you meant was, "DSR could be a game changer if it was available for all NVIDIA cards and didn't break custom refresh rates and multi-monitor support" then I would agree with your thesis.
trey31 is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 10-07-2014, 03:45 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked: 1426
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey31 View Post
I haven't tested DSR yet myself, but reports are the blur slider is an issue; it breaks custom resolutions, including custom refresh rate clocks, cannot be used with multiple monitor setups, and its only currently available on the 980 and 970 cards.



My guess is less than 0.1% of PC video gamers have a 980/970, so downsampling is hardly "obsolete" when its the only readily available option for the majority of PC gamers; e.g. the other 99.9% of us.



If what you meant was, "DSR could be a game changer if it was available for all NVIDIA cards and didn't break custom refresh rates and multi-monitor support" then I would agree with your thesis.

I meant to say that if only you have a maxwell card it's obsolete...if you don't it's def still worth the time to do this. But in my experience DSR solved a lot more problems than it caused. For instance maybe it doesn't work with custom refresh rates, but it worked with every refresh rate my monitor supported up to 4K/144hz, but I could never get the downsampling to go beyond 1440p/60hz. The blur isn't an issue at lower settings, it actually looks quite nice and is there for a very good reason.
trey31 likes this.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 10-07-2014, 07:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
Airion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 788
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Another problem with DSR (currently) is that it only works on my projector's native 1080p resolution, and not the 720p I need for 60fps 3D. With a new GTX 970 I've got the horsepower to downsample, but unfortunately DSR doesn't give me the means. So it's good to have other methods, such as the OP's and GeDoSaTo.
trey31 likes this.
Airion is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 10-07-2014, 07:49 PM
Senior Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 24
If for whatever reason you're using Intel graphics (perhaps Iris Pro?), you might be able to achieve downscampling and display overclocking with Intel's official custom resolution feature:
http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/cs-029478.htm
trey31 likes this.
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 10-08-2014, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
trey31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post
I meant to say that if only you have a maxwell card it's obsolete...if you don't it's def still worth the time to do this. But in my experience DSR solved a lot more problems than it caused. For instance maybe it doesn't work with custom refresh rates, but it worked with every refresh rate my monitor supported up to 4K/144hz, but I could never get the downsampling to go beyond 1440p/60hz. The blur isn't an issue at lower settings, it actually looks quite nice and is there for a very good reason.
Interesting about the refresh rates. I assume a custom refresh rate via CRU would be enough to get around the custom resolution issue.

On the blur issue can you tell me how you set it up at different levels? Do you adjust it for each game, or for each level of rendering? How wide of a margin for error is there between too sharp (is that even an issue) and too soft?

I'm sure I'll get to play around with DSR sooner or later.
trey31 is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 10-08-2014, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
trey31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airion View Post
Another problem with DSR (currently) is that it only works on my projector's native 1080p resolution, and not the 720p I need for 60fps 3D. With a new GTX 970 I've got the horsepower to downsample, but unfortunately DSR doesn't give me the means. So it's good to have other methods, such as the OP's and GeDoSaTo.
You could use CRU to change your monitor's native resolution to 720p, then try it with DSR.

Also, can you point me to some links about GeDoSaTo? Like a guide or something? I recall seeing something about it on Gaf in the bullshots threads, but I have almost no knowledge of what it is or does.
trey31 is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 10-08-2014, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
trey31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
If for whatever reason you're using Intel graphics (perhaps Iris Pro?), you might be able to achieve downscampling and display overclocking with Intel's official custom resolution feature:
http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/cs-029478.htm
I did not know about this. I'm going to dig out one of the laptops and play with this!
trey31 is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 10-08-2014, 01:57 PM
Senior Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey31 View Post
I did not know about this. I'm going to dig out one of the laptops and play with this!
Please report back if/when you do, I don't have any Intel hardware that's new enough to actually try out this functionality.
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 10-13-2014, 05:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Anthony A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada EH?
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Im in the process of buying up parts for my first gaming rig and am curious.... is it the gpu that is responsible for whether or not downsampling works on a specific display or 100% the display that decides if it will accept the resolution and then downsample?

And is it common for a 1080p projector to accept a 1440p, etc. pc resolution and downscale to 1080p?
Anthony A. is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 10-13-2014, 07:24 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked: 1426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post
Im in the process of buying up parts for my first gaming rig and am curious.... is it the gpu that is responsible for whether or not downsampling works on a specific display or 100% the display that decides if it will accept the resolution and then downsample?

And is it common for a 1080p projector to accept a 1440p, etc. pc resolution and downscale to 1080p?

Both. If you're using a 9 series NVIDIA card, the GPU is responsible and it'll work without much fiddling. If you're using anything else, you've got to figure out the best combination of what your GPU will support and what your display will accept.

If it's something you think you'll be doing often, you shouldn't consider anything but a GTX 970 or 980 at this point. It's made something that used to be a headache into something super simple and easy. Especially if you're using a 1080p projector, it's so useful and important a feature the only thing you should be thinking about is whether you want the 970 or 980, or maybe wait for the 960/950 if you're on a budget. Forget about everything else.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 10-13-2014, 09:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Anthony A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada EH?
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thats good to know. I've only been considering getting the 970 (when I can find one in stock somewhere) so I will report my findings when I get my hands on one.

Im using an older jvc rs35 pj which has been flawless so I hope it works out without issue.
Anthony A. is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 10-13-2014, 09:48 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bd2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 10,609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked: 1426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post
Thats good to know. I've only been considering getting the 970 (when I can find one in stock somewhere) so I will report my findings when I get my hands on one.

Im using an older jvc rs35 pj which has been flawless so I hope it works out without issue.

I use DSR all the time on my 1080p PJ, it makes a huge difference for the better when you're blowing 1080p up to a huge screen. I was really disappointed to find that SLI still has so many issues, initially I bought 2 970s because I wanted to run everything downsampled from 4K, but I had to settle for just one 970 for now.

Before when I had a 770 I used to do the old method of downsampling and it was such a hassle - I could never get anything beyond 1440p, every time I updated drivers I had to set up the custom resolutions again, I'd get all sorts of weird color issues, etc....DSR makes it SO easy, and looks a lot better too IMO when you set the smoothness to 25%.

Steam/PSN/Xbox Live: Darius510
bd2003 is offline  
Reply HTPC Gaming

Tags
custom resolutions , edid override , how to downsample , how to overclock monitor tv , vizio m651d m-series overclock and downsample
Gear in this thread - m651d by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off