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post #1 of 7 Unread 02-14-2015, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Want to build 4X PIP for gaming on a 4K TV

I have been looking and researching all over the place to get this figured out. I have been building computers and servers since the early 80's, so I am not shy when it comes to that.

Reason for project:
  • Split a giant 4K projection screen into 4 quadrants for collaborative gaming.

Needed (as far as I know):
  • 4 HDMI capture cards
  • 4K capable output video card

Things on my mind about project:
  • If the input from a gaming computer is 100FPS, what rate will be displayed on 4K TV?
  • Is there an operating system or software that supports splitting these inputs?
  • Is there an input card that is best suited for this?
  • What should be avoided?
  • If I want no more than 15ms lag, can this be built for any cost?
  • Is there already a device or method that is available today to do this?
    Note: SKREENTV will be shipping no earlier than Dec 2015, so that's out.
  • How much CPU power and memory does this type passthrough actually use?
  • I'm sure I will think of more things, but for now, this gets me started.

I hope others get on board with this conversation. Although I do not have a 4K TV or projector yet, I am in the early planning stages of a beasty HT. I already have all the speakers which I bought from an iMax that had to be stripped before a flood. I know the screen will be acoustically transparent, and as large as 208" diagonal. I know I will install a 4K projector, even though I haven't picked one out yet. I game, and I have 3 adult sons who also game, and it would be awesome if this HT was capable of collaborative gaming.

Last edited by mustang guy; 02-14-2015 at 07:36 PM.
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post #2 of 7 Unread 02-24-2015, 12:50 PM
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I think your biggest issue is nothing above, but sound. You may be able to real-time-encode separate 1080p streams into a single 4K stream (at the prosumer or commercial level perhaps?) but your audio needs to be separate for each player, you can't just have 4 sound streams converted into 1......the games won't have their sound's synced so....forget that, you'll just hear 4 audio streams playing at once like each was the only one playing....that won't work.

Rather than over-engineer an elegant solution, you can always take the cheap-n-deep option:
4 1080p projectors and mounting solutions ($1000 each, let's say, these are for gaming)
4 HDMI switching receivers with Headphone Jacks ($150 each? $200? These are just for 5.1 or 7.1 to headphones)
4 Xboxes or PS4's or base level gaming PC's....$350 to $600 each depending, max output required would be 1080p so no need to go all-in on the $800 videocards if PC is your choice)
Some Cabling and Power Strips.

You mount your 4 PJ's and align each one (lets make sure we get PJ's that have lens shift) to take up 1/4 of the screen.

Design it so all this junk is in the closet, you just need the HDMI's to the projectors and the power to the projectors..that's your clutter.

This is very doable.



I'd make a comment about how Split Screen Gaming totally blows anyways and everyone wants their own private screen (meaning, not being able to see the other player playing right next to or above you). Its one thing if you're doing mariokart, its another if you're playing...well...anything that isn't Mario Kart. But that's just me.....so I'll keep my split screen commentary to myself.

I wish you luck in your hunt!

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post #3 of 7 Unread 02-24-2015, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post
I think your biggest issue is nothing above, but sound. You may be able to real-time-encode separate 1080p streams into a single 4K stream (at the prosumer or commercial level perhaps?) but your audio needs to be separate for each player, you can't just have 4 sound streams converted into 1......the games won't have their sound's synced so....forget that, you'll just hear 4 audio streams playing at once like each was the only one playing....that won't work.

Rather than over-engineer an elegant solution, you can always take the cheap-n-deep option:
4 1080p projectors and mounting solutions ($1000 each, let's say, these are for gaming)
4 HDMI switching receivers with Headphone Jacks ($150 each? $200? These are just for 5.1 or 7.1 to headphones)
4 Xboxes or PS4's or base level gaming PC's....$350 to $600 each depending, max output required would be 1080p so no need to go all-in on the $800 videocards if PC is your choice)
Some Cabling and Power Strips.

You mount your 4 PJ's and align each one (lets make sure we get PJ's that have lens shift) to take up 1/4 of the screen.

Design it so all this junk is in the closet, you just need the HDMI's to the projectors and the power to the projectors..that's your clutter.

This is very doable.



I'd make a comment about how Split Screen Gaming totally blows anyways and everyone wants their own private screen (meaning, not being able to see the other player playing right next to or above you). Its one thing if you're doing mariokart, its another if you're playing...well...anything that isn't Mario Kart. But that's just me.....so I'll keep my split screen commentary to myself.

I wish you luck in your hunt!
Thanks for the feedback!

As for sound, it was my plan for each HDMI input to be a discreet computer, and open back headphones would be the best solution. For a LAN party, a person could bring his own box, keyboard and mouse, and I would provide the headphones and screen. That was the idea anyway. Also, the idea was to have 4 players on the same team collaborating. Something like Team Fortress 2 CTF, and everybody on blue team. It would be handy to be able to glance at a teammate's screen to see where they are and as importantly, see what they see. The reason was to be able to make a big HT screen a bit more useful. As it stands, they are used for movies, TV and individual gaming unless you are playing something like Halo in split screen mode.

Your idea of 4 cheap lower cost projectors is the most clever idea I've heard for splitting the screen. A box with low db fans could be built to house the 4 projectors, and it could be much closer to the screen than a single one, that helps keep costs and size down. In another forum on another site, the video was discussed and I concluded that technology simply isn't where it needs to be for my 4K PIP gaming device. That thread can be found here: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...V?goto=newpost
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post #4 of 7 Unread 02-24-2015, 05:54 PM
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4K is Tomorrows technology, Tomorrow.

If all of this is for Team Fortress 2, start with a pair of cheap, used 720p projectors. Get people in the room with you, see if it's as fun in real life as it is on paper. If it is, upgrade...if it isn't, you've saved yourself thousands to put towards a different solution. There may be some issues with having multiple light-sources in your room, one projector image might get washed out by a second projected image if only because you now have two super-bright light sources in the same room, all that light bouncing around. Hadn't thought of that when I posted my comment above.

When in doubt, prototype on the cheap...two used 720p projectors and a couple of capable PC's that can run TF2 are all you need to start experimenting.

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post #5 of 7 Unread 02-24-2015, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post
4K is Tomorrows technology, Tomorrow.

If all of this is for Team Fortress 2, start with a pair of cheap, used 720p projectors. Get people in the room with you, see if it's as fun in real life as it is on paper. If it is, upgrade...if it isn't, you've saved yourself thousands to put towards a different solution. There may be some issues with having multiple light-sources in your room, one projector image might get washed out by a second projected image if only because you now have two super-bright light sources in the same room, all that light bouncing around. Hadn't thought of that when I posted my comment above.

When in doubt, prototype on the cheap...two used 720p projectors and a couple of capable PC's that can run TF2 are all you need to start experimenting.
Good points!

Did you read any of the connecting thread? Not thousands, it would be tens of thousands.
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post #6 of 7 Unread 04-22-2015, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mustang guy View Post
Good points!

Did you read any of the connecting thread? Not thousands, it would be tens of thousands.
The blackmagic multiview has up to 16 inputs --> $1595
Has 3G-SDI inputs, so you would need to convert it from hdmi. blackmagic has some miniconvertors for hdmi -> 3g-sdi --> $295

Since you go for 4 inputs: 4x$295 + $1595 = $2775
The problem is a true 4k projector. Better go with a 4k oled.
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post #7 of 7 Unread 04-22-2015, 04:58 PM
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You appear to be attempting this for gaming:
http://www.prysm.com/
Click on the cascade collaboration prompt. These are "Rear Projected" Laser Phosphor Display systems. And their software can manage video and sound pretty much any way you want it. They also can scale to 4K now in a cascaded format. I don't know what the cost would be. But apparently they actually have set up some HT installations. It is very impressive technology. That is potentially better than all of the ones discussed in the forum. I also don't know if they actually sell for consumer applications yet. But they plan to at some point.
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