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post #1 of 85 Old 06-04-2015, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Windows 10 PC Gaming & XBox-Surface-Mobile convergence/Integration

Figured I might as well start this dialogue here for anyone interested. Especially since Phil Spencer shot this Missile off today.


http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/...an-ever-before


Not trying to start a flame war with the Xbox Area. But Windows 10 and other MS tech needs some breathing room beyond simply Xbox for discussion and exploration IMO. So anything goes here: Win 10 Halo & other MS Studios 1st party exclusive games...Kinect for VR & PC...AR/ Hololens for PC...Cross platform combat/gaming...XBL access fees for PC...Cloud Retail/BC library potential...Accessories and bridging hardware to enhance convergence...new Windows 10 Media Center?...new standards...anything and everything Windows 10 gaming related.


I, for one, am really pulling for Microsoft and the Windows 10/Xbox team to pull this off. Especially since Spencer now seems to be fully in charge of Gaming for both on one unified platform. Have to admit...I was actually a little bit on the fence when the ubiquitous windows 10 "Upgrade" icon magically appeared on my taskbar this week. I am satisfied with Windows 7. But intrigued by the potential of Windows 10. However, there is that underlying churn in my gut about Greeks bearing gifts. Meaning...is a freebie Windows 10 really a Trojan Horse for something else? My instincts tell me that nothing is really "Free". We just don't know what we will have to pay for yet. But only time will tell. I'd like to hear ideas from others on AVS about what they think Windows 10 means in the overall scheme of PC gaming.
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post #2 of 85 Old 06-04-2015, 05:37 PM
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It is free for one year....then guess what.
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post #3 of 85 Old 06-04-2015, 07:39 PM
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It is free for one year....then guess what.
It stays free?

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post #4 of 85 Old 06-04-2015, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post
Figured I might as well start this dialogue here for anyone interested. Especially since Phil Spencer shot this Missile off today.


http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/...an-ever-before


Not trying to start a flame war with the Xbox Area. But Windows 10 and other MS tech needs some breathing room beyond simply Xbox for discussion and exploration IMO. So anything goes here: Win 10 Halo & other MS Studios 1st party exclusive games...Kinect for VR & PC...AR/ Hololens for PC...Cross platform combat/gaming...XBL access fees for PC...Cloud Retail/BC library potential...Accessories and bridging hardware to enhance convergence...new Windows 10 Media Center?...new standards...anything and everything Windows 10 gaming related.


I, for one, am really pulling for Microsoft and the Windows 10/Xbox team to pull this off. Especially since Spencer now seems to be fully in charge of Gaming for both on one unified platform. Have to admit...I was actually a little bit on the fence when the ubiquitous windows 10 "Upgrade" icon magically appeared on my taskbar this week. I am satisfied with Windows 7. But intrigued by the potential of Windows 10. However, there is that underlying churn in my gut about Greeks bearing gifts. Meaning...is a freebie Windows 10 really a Trojan Horse for something else? My instincts tell me that nothing is really "Free". We just don't know what we will have to pay for yet. But only time will tell. I'd like to hear ideas from others on AVS about what they think Windows 10 means in the overall scheme of PC gaming.
I dont think there's anything shifty about the free upgrade. It was a necessary business reality that they needed to face up to - charging people for OS upgrades was holding them back. Few people bought those upgrades, most people just kept whatever version of windows came with their PC. So anyone serious about creating a windows application had to support all the older OSes. Meanwhile microsoft is building all sorts of stuff into new versions of windows that no one was using, because only a small fraction of the market was on the new OS. The windows 8 store was terrible for a lot of reasons, but it didnt help that writing a windows 8 app only opened you up to a fraction of the windows market. Meanwhile the vast majority of software still continued to be written in APIs that would support windows 7, or even XP. Smartphone OSes are *literally 20 years ahead* of the windows experience in this regard, simply because no one has to pay for a smartphone OS.

Keep in mind that all they're giving away for free here is the upgrade - you've already paid for the license. System builders will still need to buy windows licenses for the same price they always have. But now that they're upgrading everyone to the latest version, developers can feel safe targeting the latest version instead of versions released 7+ years ago. And now they can continue to add new features and APIs, and devs can take advantage of them immediately. Windows can actually evolve instead of being frozen in the past. This change is SO OVERDUE it's amazing it's taken this long.

Ive been using Win 10 on my primary system for a few months now and it's everything I could want it to be. It's all the good stuff from 8 in a form that's palatable to people used to 7. No more clicking the wrong thing and having some metro app take over your screen, everything pops up in a window like it's supposed to. And the windows store experience is great - you can install any app with one click with no fear....no more 10 step wizards that sneak toolbars in. All the settings backup to the cloud and sync between devices. Apps auto update in the background in exactly the same way, each app doesnt need to install a system level service to manage that. And you can uninstall an app with a simple right click, and it's completely and utterly gone. The first party windows 10 apps in recent builds feel right at home on a desktop, and I'm so looking forward to replacing every app I can with a windows store version once they start trickling in. Then just imagine, one day I can buy a new laptop or build a new rig, and like magic everything installs back exactly like I had it on my last PC. Something that used to take the better part of a day will happen automatically in a few minutes. Sounds so far fetched, right? The thing is, it shouldnt...because thats literally what buying a new iphone or android phone is like.

So far everything about Windows 10 has been great, and it's just as easy to disable stuff you don't want to use. Don't let it's free-ness fool you. That's simply the price they had to pay to have a 21st century OS.
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post #5 of 85 Old 06-05-2015, 05:58 AM
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Alright MS shill.

There anything you don't like about it so far?
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post #6 of 85 Old 06-05-2015, 07:56 AM
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He speaks the truth. I've been running it for months as well, and am very pleased with it. Easiest install ever, even on my friends old crappy machines that I use it on the repair their foolishness.
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post #7 of 85 Old 06-05-2015, 08:35 AM
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Alright MS shill.



There anything you don't like about it so far?

Little things here and there but it's hard to say when stuff changes so rapidly. The main thing I don't like is how the start menu and desktop work together sometimes. I can't pin certain things to the start menu like steam game shortcuts without a workaround. There's also no way to make a folder of tiles like you can on phone. The start menu in general is kind of wonky right now with anything but modern apps but it's also in constant flux with every new version so I wouldn't be surprised if that's fixed by release. Some of the modern stuff feel like the UI is a little too big for a mouse/kb, etc.

Most of my complaints can be chalked up to it being a beta so it's not really fair criticism yet.

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post #8 of 85 Old 06-05-2015, 09:35 AM
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For bad things, they completely gimped OneDrive, tablet mode is terrible, it doesn't have Windows Media Center, and it doesn't work nearly as well for a TV interface. But other than that...

Personally, my Surface Pro 2 will be on 8.1 indefinitely if they don't fix some of this stuff (and since they're now in bugfix mode, I doubt they will). I've already switched to a virtualized install of Windows for my Media Center recordings and Extenders, but I'm still not sure I want to upgrade the gaming/media PC. It probably will depend on how fast DirectX 12 games start coming along.
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post #9 of 85 Old 06-05-2015, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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For bad things, they completely gimped OneDrive, tablet mode is terrible, it doesn't have Windows Media Center, and it doesn't work nearly as well for a TV interface. But other than that...

Personally, my Surface Pro 2 will be on 8.1 indefinitely if they don't fix some of this stuff (and since they're now in bugfix mode, I doubt they will). I've already switched to a virtualized install of Windows for my Media Center recordings and Extenders, but I'm still not sure I want to upgrade the gaming/media PC. It probably will depend on how fast DirectX 12 games start coming along.

This is actually one of my major concerns with Windows 10. Maybe my only concern. Example: I have a ton of music archived on WMC and WMP. These are recordings to my own library from my own CDs & DVDs. I love to play music on WMP while computing or surfing. To my big surprise this week, a Windows 7 update had changed 100% of the settings in my libraries to "Preview" status. And everything sounds dreadful! To get full playing rights on my own content, it is apparently requiring me to now purchase stuff I already own from an APP store. No way will I go for that on Windows 7 or Windows 10. Maybe it's just a glitch. But it sure made me a bit leery about just giving MS total control over my content like that (including my own documents, videos and pictures (hypothetically). I can even see them doing the exact same thing with the Xbox 360 Library in their cloud servers.


I share BD2003's & others excitement about the potential of this new OS approach. But not to the tune of relinquishing ownership rights to my own content & IP. And just bending over for their blatant cash grab via App Stores. The WMP change was so upsetting to me...that I plan to completely dump it and go with the latest version of Nero instead. Hopefully Nero can import my Libraries over without any malicious interference from my Windows 7 installation or Windows 10 upgrade. That is what created unease for me with this changeover. Concern about my Steam, Origen and other game Libraries along with other content I purchased elsewhere. Perhaps BD & others who have very positive results with Windows 10, can share their experiences with content transfers that were different...or without incident. Or share a workaround on the issues of concern.
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post #10 of 85 Old 06-05-2015, 05:01 PM
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Hey Barrelbelly, do you know what update messed wmp ?
I'm using win 7 sp 1 and wmp daily .. haven't had a problem with my
music files yet ....


I don't have auto updates on though..
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post #11 of 85 Old 06-05-2015, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Barrelbelly, do you know what update messed wmp ?
I'm using win 7 sp 1 and wmp daily .. haven't had a problem with my
music files yet ....


I don't have auto updates on though..
I believe it was the last one. From about a week ago. Because after that one...the Windows 10 upgrade logo appeared. And a few days afterwards I attempted to play music in Media Player. The program was prompted to reinstall. And my entire Song Library had been converted to "Preview" status. A real bummer! Since that Library had migrated with me from practically every version of Windows since Win95 (I think). That's why I'm planning on switching to Nero and hopefully recovering it. Unless Windows has permanently Gimped it. Of course, my problem may be completely unrelated to the Windows 10 upgrade. And that's why I asked others to weigh in who have positive experiences with Windows 10. And didn't have any conversion issues.
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post #12 of 85 Old 06-06-2015, 08:46 AM
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The update that installed the Windows 10 notifier thing is from a few months ago and has been sitting silently until now. DRM-free MP3 and WMA files should continue to play as normal, I have no idea why they wouldn't in 7, 8, or 10.

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post #13 of 85 Old 06-06-2015, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post
I believe it was the last one. From about a week ago. Because after that one...the Windows 10 upgrade logo appeared. And a few days afterwards I attempted to play music in Media Player. The program was prompted to reinstall. And my entire Song Library had been converted to "Preview" status. A real bummer! Since that Library had migrated with me from practically every version of Windows since Win95 (I think). That's why I'm planning on switching to Nero and hopefully recovering it. Unless Windows has permanently Gimped it. Of course, my problem may be completely unrelated to the Windows 10 upgrade. And that's why I asked others to weigh in who have positive experiences with Windows 10. And didn't have any conversion issues.
Have you tried reloading a music CD and see if it plays that at "paid" vs preview level

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post #14 of 85 Old 06-06-2015, 10:41 AM
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Windows 10 PC Gaming & XBox-Surface-Mobile convergence/Integration

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post
This is actually one of my major concerns with Windows 10. Maybe my only concern. Example: I have a ton of music archived on WMC and WMP. These are recordings to my own library from my own CDs & DVDs. I love to play music on WMP while computing or surfing. To my big surprise this week, a Windows 7 update had changed 100% of the settings in my libraries to "Preview" status. And everything sounds dreadful! To get full playing rights on my own content, it is apparently requiring me to now purchase stuff I already own from an APP store. No way will I go for that on Windows 7 or Windows 10. Maybe it's just a glitch. But it sure made me a bit leery about just giving MS total control over my content like that (including my own documents, videos and pictures (hypothetically). I can even see them doing the exact same thing with the Xbox 360 Library in their cloud servers.


I share BD2003's & others excitement about the potential of this new OS approach. But not to the tune of relinquishing ownership rights to my own content & IP. And just bending over for their blatant cash grab via App Stores. The WMP change was so upsetting to me...that I plan to completely dump it and go with the latest version of Nero instead. Hopefully Nero can import my Libraries over without any malicious interference from my Windows 7 installation or Windows 10 upgrade. That is what created unease for me with this changeover. Concern about my Steam, Origen and other game Libraries along with other content I purchased elsewhere. Perhaps BD & others who have very positive results with Windows 10, can share their experiences with content transfers that were different...or without incident. Or share a workaround on the issues of concern.

Haven't had any content issues, dunno why I would? If its off your CDs and DVDs you shouldn't need to buy anything.
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post #15 of 85 Old 06-06-2015, 11:12 AM
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I use Windows 10 since april on a new build, windows 10 crashed a couple of times, good thing that I had nothing important doing at that moment, and when updating from build 99xx to 10074 ( sorry, can´t remember) just coundn´t use the start button, had to reset the system and losing programs, but luckly no documents lost.

Since I come from a Pentium 4 2.8ghz pc with Windows XP (wich still use) I didn´t see much of a difference in how Windows 10 works.

What I like the most is how fast it boots, I installed Windows 10 in a 240gb Kingston SSD and boots in 7 seconds.

I have 2 games installed, War Thunder and Star Wars: the Old Republic.

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CPU: Pentium G3258
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GPU: EVGA Nvidia GTX 750Ti FTW

War Thunder runs like a Champ, looks a little better than my PS4, and The Old Republic, well, looks very nice.
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post #16 of 85 Old 06-06-2015, 11:44 AM
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DirectX 12 will be great for PC gaming; everything else is just meaningless noise to me at this point. Phil Spencer continues to be good at generating such noise.
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post #17 of 85 Old 06-06-2015, 12:51 PM
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If it's more like old windows than win 8 I'll jump on it in a heartbeat. I hate w8 on my laptop that doesn't have touchscreen. Especially when the TouchPad interprets half my movements as the stupid gestures to open windows features.
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post #18 of 85 Old 06-06-2015, 01:59 PM
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If it's more like old windows than win 8 I'll jump on it in a heartbeat. I hate w8 on my laptop that doesn't have touchscreen. Especially when the TouchPad interprets half my movements as the stupid gestures to open windows features.
I just bought my first Win 8.1 computer last week and was having same swipe issue with the touchpad. I fixed it by "disabling edge swipes"

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post #19 of 85 Old 06-06-2015, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you tried reloading a music CD and see if it plays that at "paid" vs preview level
I have not tried that yet. Because I don't want to reload all of this Library to fix this. I did however find that in the options menu, there is a setting to "Preview". For apparently hovering the cursor over a song. But that presented even more weirdness. Because the box is unchecked. Yet when I hover the cursor over a song, it says preview. If I click preview it says "skip". And starts the song over again. This may have nothing at all to do with Windows 10. But could be a bad update for Windows 7. Because the sound is horrible now. And all of my WMP settings are different. I still plan to get the Windows 10 upgrade though. Too good to pass. But for sure I will back up all of my files, music and games etc., via a Windows 7 mirror image drive before I take the plunge. From a gaming standpoint. I can't bail on this now. Especially since MS seems to be finally delivering what we all said we wanted. Plus guys on here and elsewhere, whose opinions & expertise I really trust, give W10 a huge thumbs up.
As for the media player. I had wanted to switch back to Nero anyway. Because I always thought it was vastly superior to WMP. Sound and video quality is night v day better IMO. This glitch just convinced me to do it now.
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post #20 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 05:31 AM
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I see Windows 10 as being a huge cost savings for Microsoft. If they get 90% of their user base to upgrade, it will make it easier to update and obsolete old code. They won't have to worry about supporting 10 different versions of their own software. How many versions are out there of I.E.? All old versions will be phased out over time and they will only have to support 1 version. They are not making updates completely optional (only slow, moderate or fast ring updates).


Xbox Streaming I'm excited about. I do not own an Xbox One, but if the DVR and a dual tuner shows up by the end of the year, I will own one. With the streaming, I will be able to play something on just about any device and my wife can watch TV. It will function similar to the Wii U, but a proprietary unit will not need to be purchased. Any current device with W10 can be used. Even tablets, phones and laptops, and possibly anything with the SmartGlass app (iPhone or Android phone too).


I think cross platform will only work if a controller is plugged in. Kinda sad about this. M&KB would be awesome for FPS single player and Co-op. Multiplayer, controller players would get rect!


If WMC was pulled out of W7 (idk what it's like on 8), and made it a stand alone program (god I hate saying app), I would update in a heartbeat! I have no problems with it. I believe they are making something that works with the Xbox One, so how hard would it be to recompile to W10? MS bragged that VLC used 90% of its code to convert to W10. Cant WMC be done like this too?




I really want to do it, but I have to do something about recording OTA TV. I might pick up Hulu Plus for a few months after my wife gets caught up on a few shows.
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post #21 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 08:17 AM
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I see Windows 10 as being a huge cost savings for Microsoft. If they get 90% of their user base to upgrade, it will make it easier to update and obsolete old code. They won't have to worry about supporting 10 different versions of their own software. How many versions are out there of I.E.? All old versions will be phased out over time and they will only have to support 1 version. They are not making updates completely optional (only slow, moderate or fast ring updates).


Xbox Streaming I'm excited about. I do not own an Xbox One, but if the DVR and a dual tuner shows up by the end of the year, I will own one. With the streaming, I will be able to play something on just about any device and my wife can watch TV. It will function similar to the Wii U, but a proprietary unit will not need to be purchased. Any current device with W10 can be used. Even tablets, phones and laptops, and possibly anything with the SmartGlass app (iPhone or Android phone too).


I think cross platform will only work if a controller is plugged in. Kinda sad about this. M&KB would be awesome for FPS single player and Co-op. Multiplayer, controller players would get rect!


If WMC was pulled out of W7 (idk what it's like on 8), and made it a stand alone program (god I hate saying app), I would update in a heartbeat! I have no problems with it. I believe they are making something that works with the Xbox One, so how hard would it be to recompile to W10? MS bragged that VLC used 90% of its code to convert to W10. Cant WMC be done like this too?




I really want to do it, but I have to do something about recording OTA TV. I might pick up Hulu Plus for a few months after my wife gets caught up on a few shows.

They already said there will be cross play between mouse/kb, controller, touch, whatever. It's up to the dev to determine how that works. For something like competitive FPS, they prob won't let controller and mouse mix. For horde mode or campaign, I don't see why not. Really it's just that one mode of one genre that's an issue (competitive fps), so there's no need to use a sledgehammer to solve a problem that needs a scalpel.

As far as WMC goes, it can be hacked to run on win 10 right now. But it's ancient software. You're on the right track for where this is headed - they're building the DVR solution for Xbox, but the code will run just fine on PC. Doesn't even need to be recompiled. The real holdup is the TV/remote based interface - that's the native UI for Xbox, it's just a matter of porting that interface to PC, a "TV mode" of sorts. And mark my words, that *will* happen...but first it needs to be built for Xbox, and that's late this year. So there will be a significant time gap between the initial win 10 PC release and that stuff. Give it a year or so.
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post #22 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 09:45 AM
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They already said there will be cross play between mouse/kb, controller, touch, whatever. It's up to the dev to determine how that works. For something like competitive FPS, they prob won't let controller and mouse mix. For horde mode or campaign, I don't see why not. Really it's just that one mode of one genre that's an issue (competitive fps), so there's no need to use a sledgehammer to solve a problem that needs a scalpel.

As far as WMC goes, it can be hacked to run on win 10 right now. But it's ancient software. You're on the right track for where this is headed - they're building the DVR solution for Xbox, but the code will run just fine on PC. Doesn't even need to be recompiled. The real holdup is the TV/remote based interface - that's the native UI for Xbox, it's just a matter of porting that interface to PC, a "TV mode" of sorts. And mark my words, that *will* happen...but first it needs to be built for Xbox, and that's late this year. So there will be a significant time gap between the initial win 10 PC release and that stuff. Give it a year or so.
I totally agree about M&KB. It did sound like I wanted to M&KB vs. controller. I didn't mean it that way. I was typing in a rush this morning. It would be cool to play with my friends that are mostly dedicated to console and I would not be a hot mess while playing lol. Multiplayer more than likely won't happen. I'm fine with that. Games like GTA and BF would be great with both the M&KB and Controller. Switching back and forth should be seamless now. M&KB for running and shooting, while the controller for vehicles.


I know WMC is ancient, but it works great and is "wife approved." It doesn't need improved or updated IMO. The 360 as an extender has never let me down. I have no doubt that DVR is coming to Xbox One. I hope to hear more from E3!

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post #23 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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@bd2003 and moej;
Isn't it possible...even probable that completely different types of KeyPads/Mouse/Controllers & devices will start to emerge to better facilitate cross platform play between Win10 and Xbox? The reason I say that is I recently bought a Logitech G13 Advanced Gaming Keypad. All I can say is Wow! This thing has really grown on me. And I now prefer using it with a gaming mouse more than any other controller system. In the very near future...1 year...I could easily see Logitech, MS, Corsair or others building this concept out...all the way to bright. Just to optimize the Win 10 & SteamBox/OS experience. By building it out more...I mean making it a one piece wireless design by literally expanding the thumbstick part to couple with a gaming trackball type mouse with programmable right hand trigger keys, that mimic a few native controller keys. Of course you can do this kind of programming yourself right now with a gaming mouse. But that would be one killer gaming Keypad. Especially to use in the Converged Win 10 ecosystem. Where the M/KP would be one unit to replace the controller and M/KB. Plus. Everyone would be playing from a equal FPS perspective.

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post #24 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 11:53 AM
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@bd2003 and moej;
Isn't it possible...even probable that completely different types of KeyPads/Mouse/Controllers & devices will start to emerge to better facilitate cross platform play between Win10 and Xbox? The reason I say that is I recently bought a Logitech G13 Advanced Gaming Keypad. All I can say is Wow! This thing has really grown on me. And I now prefer using it with a gaming mouse more than any other controller system. In the very near future...1 year...I could easily see Logitech, MS, Corsair or others building this concept out...all the way to bright. Just to optimize the Win 10 & SteamBox/OS experience. By building it out more...I mean making it a one piece wireless design by literally expanding the thumbstick part to couple with a gaming trackball type mouse with programmable right hand trigger keys, that mimic a few native controller keys. Of course you can do this kind of programming yourself right now with a gaming mouse. But that would be one killer gaming Keypad. Especially to use in the Converged Win 10 ecosystem. Where the M/KP would be one unit to replace the controller and M/KB. Plus. Everyone would be playing from a equal FPS perspective.

Nah, I mean I'm sure there will be many new controllers from all sorts of vendors but the Xbox controller isn't going to fundamentally change to suit the cross play.

The way it should work for competitive MP is not separate "controller" and "mouse" playlists, but rather "xbox controller only" vs "anything goes". If you want to use a steam controller or any other sort of device, you have to swim with the sharks using mice.

I don't believe it's possible to build a controller as precise as a mouse anyway, and I think it's important they maintain that safe zone for the millions of console players. Console only players are already going to be touchy enough as it is about PC players potentially having a higher resolution/frame rate, changing the controller in any way or allowing anyone else into that sphere would result in a HUGE backlash. People like the controller exactly the way it is, which is why they barely even changed the design from the 360.

I see no reason why they wouldn't open up the Xbox itself to alternate control schemes....again this is only an issue for one mode of one genre (albeit a big one). But anyone who wants to hook anything but an Xbox controller to an Xbox should be prepared to face up against mice. Anything else is unfair.
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post #25 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 11:57 AM
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I totally agree about M&KB. It did sound like I wanted to M&KB vs. controller. I didn't mean it that way. I was typing in a rush this morning. It would be cool to play with my friends that are mostly dedicated to console and I would not be a hot mess while playing lol. Multiplayer more than likely won't happen. I'm fine with that. Games like GTA and BF would be great with both the M&KB and Controller. Switching back and forth should be seamless now. M&KB for running and shooting, while the controller for vehicles.


I know WMC is ancient, but it works great and is "wife approved." It doesn't need improved or updated IMO. The 360 as an extender has never let me down. I have no doubt that DVR is coming to Xbox One. I hope to hear more from E3!

You can already seamlessly switch in most PC games, I personally use a controller for flying in BF4 right now. It's actually a huge advantage, but it's PC, so anything goes.

If you're that reliant on WMC I wouldn't worry about it, there are ways to make WMC work on win 10 now. People will figure out a way to keep it going. It's just not included by default and not officially supported.

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post #26 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 12:07 PM
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As for non-gaming media, I do like that Microsoft is finally incorporating native support for FLAC and MKV with Windows 10. That being said, I will likely still use other software for playback; my custom foobar2000 setup probably cannot be matched for my music needs.
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post #27 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Reserved my Windows 10 upgrade over the weekend. @MSmith83 : Ditto for me on music & video media. That's why I'm switching back to Nero. Wouldn't it be simpler with the Xbox One convergence with Win 10 PC/Tablet for MS just to compressed & optimized your PC hardware for Xbox OS launch on those devices down to a Boot disk on something like this:
http://www.pcgamer.com/sandisks-128g...nsanely-small/
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post #28 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 12:59 PM
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I'm not sure what you're saying...these devices have internal storage, why do they need a boot disk?

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post #29 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure what you're saying...these devices have internal storage, why do they need a boot disk?
I was thinking more from a PC standpoint BD. A Windows 10 PC will have a range of hardware that is very different from a Xbox One. If those Xbox games are going to be playable on the PC, wouldn't the PC hardware have to be reconfigured by the OS to work with the Xbox Games. I assume everything Xbox on Windows 10 PC will be DD only. Because many PCs don't even use Blu-Ray drives, like XB1 for example. I'm likely over or under thinking a process that is really simple in this convergence. I know both platforms use the same basic OS. But I thought there were slight and significant differences with the Xbox Version of Windows 10. I don't know how they open this up to the myriad of Windows 10 PC hardware profiles, without just booting out the Native version of Windows 10. And booting up a new specialized Xbox 1 configuration of Windows 10 under a completely proprietary User Profile. One that can only be accessed with the proprietary XB1 Thumb drive. I guess they could do this on a DD basis too by simply creating a licensed XB One User Profile on a Windows 10 PC. Something akin to a Platinum level XB Live annual fee. That would allow MS to remotely configure your PC hardware to generate & optimize the XB1 profile to all Windows 10 devices. And the user decide which one to enter at startup.
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post #30 of 85 Old 06-08-2015, 07:13 PM
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I was thinking more from a PC standpoint BD. A Windows 10 PC will have a range of hardware that is very different from a Xbox One. If those Xbox games are going to be playable on the PC, wouldn't the PC hardware have to be reconfigured by the OS to work with the Xbox Games. I assume everything Xbox on Windows 10 PC will be DD only. Because many PCs don't even use Blu-Ray drives, like XB1 for example. I'm likely over or under thinking a process that is really simple in this convergence. I know both platforms use the same basic OS. But I thought there were slight and significant differences with the Xbox Version of Windows 10. I don't know how they open this up to the myriad of Windows 10 PC hardware profiles, without just booting out the Native version of Windows 10. And booting up a new specialized Xbox 1 configuration of Windows 10 under a completely proprietary User Profile. One that can only be accessed with the proprietary XB1 Thumb drive. I guess they could do this on a DD basis too by simply creating a licensed XB One User Profile on a Windows 10 PC. Something akin to a Platinum level XB Live annual fee. That would allow MS to remotely configure your PC hardware to generate & optimize the XB1 profile to all Windows 10 devices. And the user decide which one to enter at startup.
So the way it works is that there's the "core" of windows and each device family has specific API extensions it could access on top of that. Kind of like how the xbox is basically a standard PC with a few little bits of custom hardware on top of it. The custom parts are accessed through that device specific layer, but most of it should be handled automatically.

So when they're writing a game, anything that doesn't deal specifically with something xbox is going to run just fine. But when the game tries to mix sound, it'll just call the PlaySound() function or whatever in directX, and that'll be handled through the accelerators on the xbox or in software on PC...again, same code, but now it's taking advantage of the xbox's special hardware automatically. If they want to go in and optimize the code specifically for the xbox, then they can say If xbox do it this way, everywhere else do it the standard way.

From the OS standpoint there's almost total convergence. Like when they're programming the xbox live APIs or whatever, it's the exact same code. Doing it for xbox means it's already done for PC. So it actually makes devs lives considerably easier. Building the PC version gets them 95% there, the other 5% is just tuning for the xbox specific hardware. There's no need to take every configuration into account, just the universal way and a few special consideration for the xbox. It even gets them most of the way there for a mobile version and hololens version too.

So there's no need for different versions of the OS. It's the same OS with slight differences at the margins. Like right now, Win 10 has PC mode and tablet mode. It just changes the way stuff is displayed to make it easier to use with touchscreens. The start screen is full screen, apps are default full screen, buttons get bigger and wider spaced, etc. Surely the xbox one will have a special version of the UI that's best used with a controller, but it's still the same idea. It'd be like a "TV mode" version of the UI. It's what their continuum concept is all about - the UI morphs to fit the display and input. In the same way you can hook a phone up to a monitor/mouse/keyboard and use it like a desktop, you should be able to hook a PC (or a phone) up to a TV, grab a controller, and use it like an xbox. Or even hook your xbox up to a monitor/mouse/keyboard and use it as a PC, because that's how flexible the platform can be.

It's crazy impressive how far they've taken the platform convergence. Their vision is that it shouldn't matter what hardware you're running, a windows device is a windows device and windows is windows.
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