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post #1 of 244 Old 05-13-2007, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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...what would you get?

I'm thinking around a 24" widescreen for standard desktop use and gaming. I would kind of like to have the ability to hook HD consoles (360, PS3) or possibly an HD tuner up to it too just in case.

The wife just got a 23" Apple Cinema Display for her Mac and I'm thinking of kidnapping it.
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post #2 of 244 Old 05-15-2007, 10:16 PM
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24" viewsonic something or rather as well

didn't care too much for widescreen computing until i had the pleasure of trying out a colleague's workstation. now i feel robbed

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post #3 of 244 Old 05-15-2007, 10:26 PM
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I would get the DELL 27" or 30" widescreen LCD monitor. The 27" would have all the connections you want for your toys. The 30" only has one DVI connection. I run the 30" but to get decent frame rates at 2560x1600 you will need a hi end SLI or Crossfire setup. The 27" is a 1920x1200 so less stressful so something like a 8800GTS 640mb would work fine.

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post #4 of 244 Old 05-16-2007, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post

I would get the DELL 27" or 30" widescreen LCD monitor. The 27" would have all the connections you want for your toys. The 30" only has one DVI connection. I run the 30" but to get decent frame rates at 2560x1600 you will need a hi end SLI or Crossfire setup. The 27" is a 1920x1200 so less stressful so something like a 8800GTS 640mb would work fine.

Does a 27" need dual-channel DVI? My 6800GT only has 2 single-channel DVIs.
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post #5 of 244 Old 05-16-2007, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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btw, I did kidnap the 23" Apple Cinema Display and it's AMAZING!!!!
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post #6 of 244 Old 05-16-2007, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Does a 27" need dual-channel DVI? My 6800GT only has 2 single-channel DVIs.

Dell 27" info

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...9&sku=222-7315

Doesnt mention the need for dual link DVI card.

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post #7 of 244 Old 05-16-2007, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Tinker... that looks great! If it's 1920x1200 I don't think it will need dual-channel DVI. I wish it had HMDI in, but I guess HDMI to DVI converter isn't that big of deal.

I'm putting that at the top of the list.
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post #8 of 244 Old 05-16-2007, 10:41 AM
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If I wanted to spend a ton of money I would buy a 27 or 30" Dell. They are amazing monitors. If I wanted to save some money I might go for the Gateway 24" WS monitor since it has HDCP (I don't think the Dell 24" does). I might also consider dual 22" WS Dell monitors for about the same price of one 24".
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post #9 of 244 Old 05-16-2007, 12:30 PM
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I think 1920x1200 is max for single DVI. Beyond that you need dual. My 24" maxxed at that res. I would think 27" would need more to be sharp.

DaverJ..have you thought about the triplehead2go from Matrox?
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post #10 of 244 Old 05-16-2007, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

I think 1920x1200 is max for single DVI. Beyond that you need dual. My 24" maxxed at that res. I would think 27" would need more to be sharp.

DaverJ..have you thought about the triplehead2go from Matrox?

Thanks for the comments - triplehead is overkill for what I'm aiming for. I know when the wife's G5 comes in and I have to give back the beautiful 23" Cinema Display, I'm going to be unhappy transitioning back to my old 4:3 20" ViewSonic.

The way I love that Apple monitor I might just get one for myself, but I'm considering my options. I'm not doing much PC gaming anymore, but I wouldn't mind something I can hook the gaming consoles, HD Tivo or whatever to without much hassle. The DVI-D only Apple monitor would need a box to do this.

So... at this stage I'm open to suggestions.
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post #11 of 244 Old 05-16-2007, 02:26 PM
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I bought the Gateway 24" FPD2485W, and it's gorgeous. Wasn't that pricey either, IMO.
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post #12 of 244 Old 05-18-2007, 07:02 AM
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You can get flatpanel LCD's in 1080p for $500-$800....

The Dell monitors have consistantly been overpriced, to my eyes. Plus with the TV's you usually get alot more inputs, and usually an NTSC or ATSC tuner too.

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post #13 of 244 Old 05-18-2007, 07:35 AM
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HP has a new 30". Worth looking at if that's of interest.

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post #14 of 244 Old 05-18-2007, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

You can get flatpanel LCD's in 1080p for $500-$800....

Sorry to keep bringing this up, but will these ^^^ LCDs display a PC desktop equal to Apple's $900 23" Cinema Display?

I know there are bargains out there, but I'm not trying to save money. I want the best looking display, and it would be great if it has inputs beyond DVI-D, which Apple's monitor is limited to.

I really appreciate the input.
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post #15 of 244 Old 05-18-2007, 08:37 AM
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Well my 37" Westinghouse has no internal tuner, so its basically a gigantic monitor.
Via DVI at 1080p, its a great big gigantic laptop monitor in terms of brightness and sharpness. My model is a refurb, several years old, with a 12ms refresh rate...I get some dark ghosting on some games but that doesn't bother me like it does some. The newer models, also cheap, have response times half of that, which eliminates thats problem.

The last time I checked, the only advantage that PC monitors had over LCD flatpanel TV's was that they sometimes had better refresh rates, or perhaps better color accuracy, but that varies greatly among manufacturer. Oh, right, and PC monitors offer higher than 1080p resolutions. And higher resolutions are a blessing, but also a big curse if you're a gamer.

Unlike our old CRT monitors, scaling on LCD monitors is never, ever, ever pretty. Its tolerable, but its not optimal. So....do you have a PC that can drive a game at 1080p?
Or if you go with a smaller PC/Apple monitor with a higher-than-1080p resolution, will your videocard play a game at the native rez?

It came down, for me, to spending (at the time) $800 on a 24" Dell widescreen whos reviews were ok, but not great. Or a 37" Westinghouse, which I opted for. I have yet to see a "good" contrast ratio on an LCD display so seeing 1000:1 versus 1400:1 to me doesn't mean anything in the real world. Play with some lights on in the room and the CR will always look fine for gaming or movies.

For me, it came down to having a 24" desktop display...versus having a much larger display with more inputs that I coule move anywhere in my house and run as a HDTV (with cable box or antenna), DVD display, cable display, video game display, etc, etc, etc...

The nice thing is that todays LCD TV's have much better refresh rates than they used to, which is probably the only thing I'd improve on my own display. oh yeah, and I need a new PC with dual 8800SLI video boards to drive all games at 1080p happily :P

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post #16 of 244 Old 05-18-2007, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Unlike our old CRT monitors, scaling on LCD monitors is never, ever, ever pretty. Its tolerable, but its not optimal. So....do you have a PC that can drive a game at 1080p?
Or if you go with a smaller PC/Apple monitor with a higher-than-1080p resolution, will your videocard play a game at the native rez?

Good post Rusch, thanks. It seems like I'm in the same boat as you were, but I'm not wanting to upgrade my PC to be smooth at 1080p. However, on this Apple monitor I've sent 640x480 scaled by the videocard (6800GT) to 1920x1200... and it looks pretty darn good. Plus, I've tried Titan Quest rendering at 1920 and it ran reasonably smooth and looked better than I thought it could. So FPS's will have to be scaled, but less frame-intensive games seem to play great at 1920.

But, like you said, maybe I should get a monitor that can serve more than just a PC/Mac monitor...?

Still undecided.
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post #17 of 244 Old 05-18-2007, 04:38 PM
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I like having a 37" 1080p monitor.....it wont be breaking anytime soon (we hope), I wont ever need anything bigger, and eventually I'll have a PC that drives its rez natively without issue for all games.

Truth be told I can do that now, just not on the hot FPS's. I mean UT2004 at 1920x1080 is fine..even Doom III at 1080p is doable...Prey hovers in the 60's, but Prey also is one of those games that doesn't look too bad scaling to a lower rez either. Fear isn't easy to keep in the 60's at 1080p, and forget about Stalker....BF2 is just fine at 1080p.

If anything, I got the monitor too soon....because I didn't realize how quickly I'd move away from PC gaming in general in favor of the consoles. But, I do love having the massive real-estate and I love it when I edit movies being able to see a huge chunk of timeline at once for my NLE stuff. Working with photos is great, I can run two apps side by side at giant sizes, etc.

You wont get that with a dinky 23" Monitor

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post #18 of 244 Old 05-19-2007, 02:41 PM
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Dell LCD monitors are from the same manufacturer as Apple's Cinema displays, and are generally excellent. My wife has the Dell 2407 (24 inch widescreen) and loves it.

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post #19 of 244 Old 05-19-2007, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by vjmurphy View Post

Dell LCD monitors are from the same manufacturer as Apple's Cinema displays, and are generally excellent. My wife has the Dell 2407 (24 inch widescreen) and loves it.

I don't think the 24" DELL uses an IPS panel, whereas I think the 23" apple does. The 27" and 30" are IPS I believe.
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post #20 of 244 Old 05-19-2007, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post


You wont get that with a dinky 23" Monitor

We are up in the air right now with where we'll be living or relocating entirely (job stuff). I had a thought today that if we stayed, we'd turn my office into a play room for our son. We'd leave the desk and PCs so my wife had something to do up there while he's playing (plus I don't want to lug all that stuff downstairs to the basement). A thought came to mind that I could probably massage the WAF into a larger 1080p display/monitor so it could do double duty as a PC and television up there. Yeah....of course I'd need to upgrade the video card and entire system to run it appropriately. That's a nice option.

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post #21 of 244 Old 05-20-2007, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vjmurphy View Post

Dell LCD monitors are from the same manufacturer as Apple's Cinema displays, and are generally excellent. My wife has the Dell 2407 (24 inch widescreen) and loves it.

For the Dell monitors you do have to send it the exact max res for it to be smooth. Is the Apple 23" different? If it does scaling so theres no fuzzy edges then thats great but 23" is small. Does the Apple have a scaler? What is IPS?
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post #22 of 244 Old 05-20-2007, 09:56 AM
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IPS is one of the flat-panel technologies in use by monitor companies these days.
Panels used to sacrifice color-accuracy for speed, to get the ghosting down, which is why the original batch of low-refresh rate LCD panels were fugly to look at.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD#IPS

Today, if you ask me, if you are a standard gamer then a 1366x768 (720p) 32" Widescreen LCD Television is the way to go, or even better a 37" 1080p display........you just need to make sure you have the horsepower to drive 1080p.

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post #23 of 244 Old 05-20-2007, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyHTPC View Post

If it does scaling so theres no fuzzy edges then thats great but 23" is small. Does the Apple have a scaler?

Apple's Cinema Displays have no scaler... these are DVI-D monitors which is 100% pixel by pixel. If you send a 720p native signal to these displays unscaled, it will appear in a box in the center of screen.

But of course most videocards know this and perform the scaling for the monitor. My aging nVidia 6800GT reports that it's connected to a Cinema Display and scales everything* sharply to 1920x1200 full screen without any interaction on my end.

As for 23" being small, I agree... but with the caveat that the monitor is literally 2 feet from my nose. If it were any further I wouldn't consider it. The 30" Cinema Display requires a dual-DVI path and my 6800GT only has two single DVI paths. Not to mention the native resolution for the 30" display is 2560 x 1600 -- all those pixels are the reason for the need for dual-DVI. That resolution is almost too much desktop for what most people do. Oh, and the 30" is $1800!!!

I know I've gone on and on about how good these Apple displays look, but if you haven't seen one in action, by all means brave the elitist snobs at an Apple store near you and take a look at the 23" and 30". These monitors are very limited in options (and by limited, I mean "none"), but I have yet to see sharper pixels on any other display.

*I mentioned that the video card has to scale everything to the native resolution, and I must mention that this only happens when the computer is in Windows. As I boot my PC, before it gets to Windows I don't see anything on the screen like post information, RAM, CPU speed, etc. because the monitor doesn't know what to do with the low resolution. This means I can't do anything at bootup, including going into BIOS, until the computer gets to Windows. Not a problem for 90% of computer users, but definitely a problem for most of the users in this forum.
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post #24 of 244 Old 05-20-2007, 06:54 PM
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Even though lcd's are getting better I would still have to go with a CRT monitor. I got mine used from canadamonitors. It's a 22" Mitsu Diamondpro 2060u. I have never seen its equal.

And it will scale (with no picture degredation) to fit any resolution so I can really customizethe settings for each game to fit my hardware. Some games I need to go with a lower resolution so I can turn on more eye candy for instance.

If you want the best picture and have the space, I'd still go with a trusty ol' CRT. I will probably get a new monitor in about 2 years and by then I am hoping an LCD will satisfy me.
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post #25 of 244 Old 05-21-2007, 05:17 AM
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What's a good 19"? I can't afford a 24" unfortunately. I want one that can do 1080p and is good for gaming. I currently have the LG194WT, and while it's a decent monitor the colors on it are crap. Skin tones look very hot and no matter how much I adjust it, it doesn't go away. I was looking at the Samsung's.
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post #26 of 244 Old 05-21-2007, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Even though lcd's are getting better I would still have to go with a CRT monitor. I got mine used from canadamonitors. It's a 22" Mitsu Diamondpro 2060u. I have never seen its equal.

And it will scale (with no picture degredation) to fit any resolution so I can really customizethe settings for each game to fit my hardware. Some games I need to go with a lower resolution so I can turn on more eye candy for instance.

If you want the best picture and have the space, I'd still go with a trusty ol' CRT. I will probably get a new monitor in about 2 years and by then I am hoping an LCD will satisfy me.

Agreed. For less than the cost of a 24" WS LCD, you could buy a 2048 x 1536 capable 21" (ViewSonic G225fb) or 22" (Mitsubishi Diamondpro 2060u) CRT I'm still using 19-21" 1600 x 1200 CRTs that I buy off craigslist for $20-25. When one breaks, there's always another to pick up.. nothing like a $400 monitor for $20 since everyone is struck by the flatscreen crazy!
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post #27 of 244 Old 05-21-2007, 03:08 PM
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I'd wait for the next round of coupons and get a Dell 24"

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post #28 of 244 Old 05-21-2007, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I know I've gone on and on about how good these Apple displays look, but if you haven't seen one in action, by all means brave the elitist snobs at an Apple store near you and take a look at the 23" and 30". These monitors are very limited in options (and by limited, I mean "none"), but I have yet to see sharper pixels on any other display.

Of course, pack that many pixels in a small display and its going to look awfully sharp. We keep coming back to the question of what do you want to do with it?

Do you need a hyper-resolution monitor, if so, what for? To run a higher-rez desktop? To view super high-rez photographs (aka: PRON!)? To Game on at the native rez of the display? Or do you just have the itch, and want to buy something new, flat and snazzy? (That was, mainly, my reason!).

And more importantly, do you have a budget? You know it helps to have a budget....that kind of gets you in a neighborhood to start shopping in, no?

For me, I'm not dropping $600+ on a PC monitor anymore...forget that. But on a TV with tuners and inputs for Component or a DVD player or whatever? That I can justify.

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post #29 of 244 Old 05-21-2007, 04:52 PM
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OK I use both LCD TVs and Monitors.

For pure gaming and PC I would go monitor. If you plan on connecting a lot of other devices then the TV. The only issue with TV's is the over brightness....way too bright in most cases and if you turn it down to use as a monitor, it screws up the color for HT unless the TV has seperate mem for brightness and contrast for each input. But if not then if you are willing to adjust for each use then go for a TV.

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post #30 of 244 Old 05-21-2007, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Do you need a hyper-resolution monitor, if so, what for? To run a higher-rez desktop? To view super high-rez photographs (aka: PRON!)? To Game on at the native rez of the display? Or do you just have the itch, and want to buy something new, flat and snazzy? (That was, mainly, my reason!).

And more importantly, do you have a budget? You know it helps to have a budget....that kind of gets you in a neighborhood to start shopping in, no?

Fair questions...

I don't need a new monitor - sitting behind this very nice monitor I'm borrowing is a Viewsonic VP191b 20" LCD. It's fine. But not widescreen. Nor as razor sharp. It will be hard to go back to that 1280x1024 monitor.

No budget... I would rather not do the $1800 awesome 30" job, but a $900 23" very nice one doesn't hurt me too much. And I haven't upgraded my PC, save Vista, in a long time. Justifications..? I hope I'll find understanding in this forum.

As for CRTs - they are great for the budget, and people can quote black levels and color accuracy all they want, but I don't want another beast in my house. Right now I'm looking at deep inky blacks and perfect color bars on this LCD, and there's no going back.

Thanks everyone for your comments! All posters had great words of wisdom, interesting and various points of view and I appreciate them all! It made me realize that, and when it comes time to relinquish this monitor when the wife's Mac Pro (w/ quad core Intel Xeon!) comes in, chances are I'll buy another one for my PC. Yes, I like it that much.
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