How Is True Htpc Gaming Possible??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-12-2007, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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OK I need to figure this out. I want a 60" plus screen to hook my PC up took and game it up on. I want to be able to play at 1920x 1080 resolutions my computer can handle it fine allready but how do you do it with overscan cutting off the outside of the screens I know all about overscan compensaiton basically dropping your resolution to some crazy custom res to make it fit without being cut off and i can do that for my desktop but not for games! so how the hell do you guys do this im going crazy !!!

HOW IS TRUE HTPC GAMING POSSIBLE??? or does everyone just deal with the edges of all there screens being cut off to play in their HDTV's native resolutions??

Which HDTV's are you using to hook your PC's up do and what are you doing about overscan?

PLease someone tell me they have a HDTV hooked up and they set there resolutions to 1920x 1080 and everythings fine.

AND WHY THE HELL IS EVERYONE OK WITH "1080p" HDTV's NOT BEING ABLE TO ACTUALLY DISPLAY A 1920x1080 IMAGE WITHOUT CUTTING OFF THE EDGES!!

We should all demand that if you say a unit can display that resolution it better damn well do it!

Jordan is goign NUTS!
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post #2 of 23 Old 06-12-2007, 06:26 PM
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Stick with monitors or projectors when hooking your PC into a display hardware. HDTV is not
made for PC, it made for movies, shows, console gaming, etc. But some HDTV still lack to
support console gaming without overscan or underscan.

There is always someone out there that gives you opinion of a product that they don't even own.
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post #3 of 23 Old 06-12-2007, 07:15 PM
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Not all TV's have problems. While it took a fair bit of research I have no problems gaming 1:1 without overscan on my A10. Just takes some custom timings in powerstrip or the nvidia control panel. I believe as long as you can get 1:1 on your set, you can setup custom resolutions which get rid of the overscan.

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post #4 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 07:43 AM
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I'm using the NVIDIA overscan tool for games and desktop. This solution easily results in 1:1 pixel mapping on my HLS6188W as it's a virtual resolutio within the native display resolution. Most games I've tried are able to use the custom resolution out of the box or with a .ini change.
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post #5 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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What resolution do you use Istepino??? and what TV is an A10?

and Krimson what resolution do you put yours at and how do you get that resolution during games?
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post #6 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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and by getting 1:1 you mean the TV can display a 1920x1080 resolution?
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post #7 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 10:09 AM
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The HLS6188W is a native 1080p display (1920x1080p@60hz) which is the physical resolution my video card is outputting at all times connected to my display. The 1920x1080p resolution output results in about 1-2% overscan on the display without any correction. I'm using 1920x1080p with no overscan correction for video playback to have one for one pixel mapping (aka 1:1) when playing back 1080 videos. This is a good soltution as the minimal overscan is much better than scaling the image down to avoid it.

I used the NVIDIA overscan tool to create a "virtual" resolution of 1882x1058 within the real 1920x1080 resultion the video card is outputing to my display for all non-video usage. When using the virtual resolution the desktop (and games) see the 1882x1058 and use that so that the overscan isn't an issue and you're still getting one for one pixel mapping as the images are not scaled unlike with video which has a fixed resolution.

You need to realize that is a virtual resolution and that the actual resolution of the video doesn't change. Think about you native 1920x1080 resolution having 1-2% black border around in with a usable 1882x1058 resolution available to the OS.

This works perfectly fine with most games I've tried that allow you to use a user defined resolution. I've even found that most games pickup the current desktop virtual resolution of 1882x1058 and allow that as an option without any specific .ini modifications. There have been a few expections of mixed results such as with FIFA 2007 where gameplay is using a user defined 1882x1058 virtual resolution but the menus only allow standard resolutions.

Here's an detailed explaination of 1:1 pixel mapping if you want to understand why this might be important to you: http://pixelmapping.wikispaces.com/P...ping+explained
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post #8 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 11:02 AM
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>AND WHY THE HELL IS EVERYONE OK WITH "1080p" HDTV's NOT BEING ABLE TO ACTUALLY DISPLAY A 1920x1080 IMAGE WITHOUT CUTTING OFF THE EDGES!!

I'm not ok with this. I've noticed it from the get go with my PJ. Hence forth, I will avoid all BenQ products. They are notorious for a high level, not just normal, a high level of cropping on their products.
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post #9 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstepnio View Post

I used the NVIDIA overscan tool to create a "virtual" resolution of 1882x1058 within the real 1920x1080 resultion the video card is outputing to my display for all non-video usage. When using the virtual resolution the desktop (and games) see the 1882x1058 and use that so that the overscan isn't an issue and you're still getting one for one pixel mapping as the images are not scaled unlike with video which has a fixed resolution.

I recently set up a HLS5088W and HTPC for a friend. When I used the Nvidia overscan tool, I was able to reduce the image so the horizontal resolution was perfect, but the vertical resolution was to short (black bars at top and bottom). Does one of the Nvidia drivers allow for scaling in both directions?

He plays Far Cry and it recognized the new resolution and plays fullscreen with no overscan.
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post #10 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstepnio View Post

The HLS6188W is a native 1080p display (1920x1080p@60hz) which is the physical resolution my video card is outputting at all times connected to my display. The 1920x1080p resolution output results in about 1-2% overscan on the display without any correction. I'm using 1920x1080p with no overscan correction for video playback to have one for one pixel mapping (aka 1:1) when playing back 1080 videos. This is a good soltution as the minimal overscan is much better than scaling the image down to avoid it.

That isn't 1:1, 1:1 means absolutely no overscan but rather each individual pixel in the signal is mapped to a single pixel on the display. Some TVs will allow you to achive 1:1 though the service menu if not though the user controls.
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post #11 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post

That isn't 1:1, 1:1 means absolutely no overscan but rather each individual pixel in the signal is mapped to a single pixel on the display. Some TVs will allow you to achive 1:1 though the service menu if not though the user controls.

Many TV's have both optical and physical overscan. Those with optical overscan scale the picture to a larger size and through away the excess pixels.

On the Samsung HLSxx88W models, you can turn optical overcan off. However, there is still some physical overscan. In other words, part of the 1920x1080 display panel is physically hidden behind the bezel. In order to view the whole Windows screen, you must reduce its size within a 1920x1080 resolution. However, it is still a 1920x1080 resolution and all pixels are being sent and mapped 1:1 on the display.

You can use Nvidia's overscan feature to correct for both optical and physical overscan. When correcting for physical overscan, you are still getting 1:1 pixel mapping, but you can't actually see the pixels that are covered by the bezel.
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post #12 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Many TV's have both optical and physical overscan. Those with optical overscan scale the picture to a larger size and through away the excess pixels.

On the Samsung HLSxx88W models, you can turn optical overcan off. However, there is still some physical overscan. In other words, part of the 1920x1080 display panel is physically hidden behind the bezel. In order to view the whole Windows screen, you must reduce its size within a 1920x1080 resolution. However, it is still a 1920x1080 resolution and all pixels are being sent and mapped 1:1 on the display.

You can use Nvidia's overscan feature to correct for both optical and physical overscan. When correcting for physical overscan, you are still getting 1:1 pixel mapping, but you can't actually see the pixels that are covered by the bezel.

That's correct, I failed to mention that I disabled software overscan on the HLS6188W but like stated there still is a small physical overscan. There is no doubt this results in 1:1 pixel mapping with a small percent of pixels hidden.

The end result is perfect 1:1 image quality with when displaying fullscreen video (with no NVIDIA overscan correction) which has been verified with a 1920x1080 test pattern. I also have perfect 1:1 pixel mapping on the desktop when running the overscan corrected resolution which has been verified with a 1:1 pixel mapping background image.

There is no doubt that an 100 inch 120Hz display with zero physical overscan would be better but the grass always looks greener on the other side, right? While we're at it 7.1 uncompresed PCM audio to my audio decoder would be great too but what can you do?
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post #13 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

I recently set up a HLS5088W and HTPC for a friend. When I used the Nvidia overscan tool, I was able to reduce the image so the horizontal resolution was perfect, but the vertical resolution was to short (black bars at top and bottom). Does one of the Nvidia drivers allow for scaling in both directions?

He plays Far Cry and it recognized the new resolution and plays fullscreen with no overscan.

Funny you mention this as I recently noticed that with Forceware 93.24 the driver allowed independent horizontal and vertical adjustments but when I upgraded to93.71 the adjustments are now locked. I'm guessing they did this to maintain the aspect ratio which I suppose might be a good reason to lock the adjustments. I found the end result was titch off from the corrected virtual resolution I had with 93.24 and I have a few pixels of black on the top.
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post #14 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 08:09 PM
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Set your hdtv to FULL PIXEL and make sure your video card is hooked up to the tv with a dvi to hdmi cable. As long as the game supports 1920x1080 youll have no overscan probs and you'll be gaming in 1080p.

Don't use VGA or component you might be able to get 1920 x 1080 but it will look like crap.
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post #15 of 23 Old 06-13-2007, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Many TV's have both optical and physical overscan.

Doh, my bad, I though he was talking about an LCD rather than a DLP.
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post #16 of 23 Old 06-14-2007, 12:37 AM
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As many have said, there are quite a few tv's that don't use overscan (all Westinghouse 1080p displays, for example).

My LVM-42w2 displays every pixel 1:1, and it works great as a computer monitor.

I use DVI, but VGA looks fine too.
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post #17 of 23 Old 06-15-2007, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I just went to Frys with my laptop and a dvi/hdmi cable and started plaugging in and I Couldt find a single DLP tv that coule display a1920x1080 desktop with a 1:1 pixel ratio but the Sony Bravia 52" LCD could i couldnt get The Samsung LCD I tried to do it though it cut off more then anyother TV actually.

AND EVERYONE I UNDERSTAND OVERSCAN COMPENSATION BY SETTING SOME BOGUS SMALLER RESOLUTION THAT FITS AND MAINTAINS A 1:1 RATIO.

I WANT 1080P TVS THAT I CAN SET MY DESKTOP TO 1920X1080p60 and HAVE IT SHOW UP PERFECTLY WITH A 1:1 and NO OVERSCAN!

I didnt get to test any Westy's but you say they can display 1080p res w/no overscan???
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post #18 of 23 Old 06-15-2007, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noriveia View Post

I just went to Frys with my laptop and a dvi/hdmi cable and started plaugging in and I Couldt find a single DLP tv that coule display a1920x1080 desktop with a 1:1 pixel ratio but the Sony Bravia 52" LCD could i couldnt get The Samsung LCD I tried to do it though it cut off more then anyother TV actually.

AND EVERYONE I UNDERSTAND OVERSCAN COMPENSATION BY SETTING SOME BOGUS SMALLER RESOLUTION THAT FITS AND MAINTAINS A 1:1 RATIO.

I WANT 1080P TVS THAT I CAN SET MY DESKTOP TO 1920X1080p60 and HAVE IT SHOW UP PERFECTLY WITH A 1:1 and NO OVERSCAN!

I didnt get to test any Westy's but you say they can display 1080p res w/no overscan???

Make sure you set the settings on the TV to display all pixels. Not so sure if all lcds have this option but my bravia does.
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post #19 of 23 Old 06-15-2007, 07:49 PM
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I'm typing this right now on a 47" westy (tx47) in 1080p with perfect 1:1... 1:1 is accessible in the display menu options
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post #20 of 23 Old 06-15-2007, 08:08 PM
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snack tray + toilet
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post #21 of 23 Old 06-16-2007, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noriveia View Post

HOW IS TRUE HTPC GAMING POSSIBLE??? or does everyone just deal with the edges of all there screens being cut off to play in their HDTV's native resolutions??

simple - get a 1080p panel that does 1:1 pixel and has no overscan. look at the 1080p westinghouse and sony models - i have had good experiences with both for ce and htpc uses.

btw - i hope your htpc is not gonna be the laptop you mentioned above
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post #22 of 23 Old 06-25-2007, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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my laptop is a 2ghz core 2 duo 2gb ram and a geforce 7900 it's not a shabby gaming machine but i will be building a nicer one yes

Has anyone ever found a DLP that has no overscan?
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post #23 of 23 Old 06-25-2007, 01:29 PM
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Projection and CRT tv's will inherently have overscan but they achieve this by projecting past the edges of the screen as opposed to stretching the image. You can get 1:1 on DLP/LCD-RP sets and then use the overscan adjustments in the video card drivers to get the desktop to fit in the visible area. Of course, as always, research sets individually as to how well the handle PC input.

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