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post #91 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 01:43 PM
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Insurgency (HL2 full conversion) is whats making me think about a new build. It's a lot more demanding then everything HL2 before it (with the exception of Lost Coasts perhaps, I know nothing about it). Running in 1024x768 with high detail 4xAA, 2xAF, game play in larger areas is pretty choppy (AMD 3700+ san diego, XFX 7800GT OC, 2gb G.Skill DDR500 running at DDR400), whereas I run 8xAA, 4xAF in CS:S and DoD:S with no slowdown ever even in the biggest areas. So, I just moderately OC'd my video card from stock (OC'd from factory) 450/1050 to 468/1180. I haven't maxed it out, but I'm hoping for 480/1200 on stock cooling with no artifacts. Tonight I will OC the CPU. I purchased DDR500 2 years ago for this very reason, since it will have no problem running at 250MHz and will not hold me back in my quest to up the FSB and OC my CPU.
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post #92 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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If anyone is interested, Egghead finally has the E6850 on their site.
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post #93 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 05:16 PM
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^^^
You mean E6850 :P

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post #94 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 05:18 PM
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Wow, I didn't realize that Intel dropped the price on the Quad 6600's to like $220 bucks, thats insane.....a huge price cut. But I think we've established that in the here and now, Mhz Rules, and this other chip at 3ghz remains the true bargain if you're spending the bucks.

I think the truly nice thing is that if, in the future, the quad cores suddenly became more viable, they are a cheap upgrade...not some $1k chip replacement, but just a few hundred bucks.

Of course we'll still have to see how advantageous they are to the gaming world.

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post #95 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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As I'm waiting for parts to arrive, I went to Dell to see what a similarly configured system would cost. By putting this stuff together myself, I'm saving around $900, and that's with a slower CPU on the Dell.

But it should be pointed out that, with Dell, there's tech support, OS bundled, and not the hassle, worries and bleeding fingers of assembly. Those that put together systems a lot forget how intimidating it is to us less-frequent builders. ...OH, and the Dell has that kick-butt case.

Still, I'm looking forward to the task this weekend and hope I get a screaming fast and silent PC at the end of the process.
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post #96 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Wow, I didn't realize that Intel dropped the price on the Quad 6600's to like $220 bucks, thats insane.....a huge price cut. But I think we've established that in the here and now, Mhz Rules, and this other chip at 3ghz remains the true bargain if you're spending the bucks.

I think the truly nice thing is that if, in the future, the quad cores suddenly became more viable, they are a cheap upgrade...not some $1k chip replacement, but just a few hundred bucks.

Of course we'll still have to see how advantageous they are to the gaming world.

Right now, the E6850 gives better performance across the board for current games (except maybe supreme commander which utilizes quad cores) compared to the Q6600.. I have a feeling though as more games are released that are optimized for multi cores (crysis for example), the Q6600 will catch up, and probably surpass the E6850. And by the way, the E6600 is $220, the Q6600 is $375, a bit more than the E6850.

For now, clock speed rules.. but not forever

I think for now I'm going to OC the crap out of my current setup (I designed it for that very purpose.. the best OCing mobo and higher speed ram), see how the DX10 games run on quad core CPUs compared to dual, and see if GE8 series cards can support the games at high resolutions. I can wait until the end of the year for G92 cards, and to see if the new intel cores provide again price to performance gains. There is just too much uncertainty in my mind to take the plunge, expecially considering my current setup pretty much runs everything I want to play at this point without a hitch.
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post #97 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

As I'm waiting for parts to arrive, I went to Dell to see what a similarly configured system would cost. By putting this stuff together myself, I'm saving around $900, and that's with a slower CPU on the Dell.

But it should be pointed out that, with Dell, there's tech support, OS bundled, and not the hassle, worries and bleeding fingers of assembly. Those that put together systems a lot forget how intimidating it is to us less-frequent builders. ...OH, and the Dell has that kick-butt case.

Still, I'm looking forward to the task this weekend and hope I get a screaming fast and silent PC at the end of the process.

Yeah but you get that satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself and built it the way you wanted it. No extra Dell (or whoever) installed apps you probably don't want cluttering up your system and you get the parts you want.

I'm updating my fresh HL2 installation via steam as I write this so I'll try your test here in a little while.

Good luck with the build. I worked hard on mine and stayed up late but really did enjoy every minute of it. Well except when installing XP it labeled my main install HD drive F:

Jim
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post #98 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post

I worked hard on mine and stayed up late but really did enjoy every minute of it.

Labor of love... thanks for the good thoughts -- I hope I enjoy the process too.

One of my main concerns about this install is dealing with MS while switching the Vista key from this current computer to the new one.
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post #99 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

The latest 3Dmark is usually a fun one. But the Half Life 2: Lost Coast stress test was the benchmark that made me want to build a new rig. I would love for you to try that one out... if you don't have Lost Coast but own HL2 you should be able to d/l from Steam.

Ok got HL2: Lost Coast all setup and ran the stress test. All run at 1680x1050 32bit with a NEC 20WMGX

Here are the results.

All settings on high and everything else on the recommended settings by the game.

0 AA
Trilinear Filtering
V-Synch off
Reflect World
174.71 average

If I change it to.
4x AA
Trilinear Filtering
V-Synch off
All Reflections
174.66 average

Change it to
4x AA
Trilinear Filtering
V-Synch on
All Reflections
59.74 average

Only thing that really made much difference in the tests was changing V-Synch to on or off. 2X,4X AA or 4X or 8X Anisotropic Filtering didn't really change the frame rates from Trilinear filtering.

So would these scores be considered good?

Hope this helped and let me know if changing to a different setting is something you want me to try and I will.

Jim
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post #100 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I want that ^^^.

Turning v-synch on limits the framerate to the monitor's refresh rate, so that's why you got around 60fps with it on.

For comparison, with my P4 3.2ghz maxed at 1920x1200, I get around 17.5 FPS w/ v-synch on!
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post #101 of 204 Old 07-23-2007, 09:00 PM
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only use v-synch if you're experiencing tearing.
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post #102 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post

2X,4X AA or 4X or 8X Anisotropic Filtering didn't really change the frame rates from Trilinear filtering.

So would these scores be considered good?

Thanks for testing those Jim -- those are great scores. The fact that, at high res, you could turn on any amount of AA with no performance hit means those features are "free" with that game, which means the performance of your computer is way ahead of what is needed for that game.

Now when Crysis comes out we'll have a whole new round of testing... if you are willing to upgrade to Vista.

Speaking of Vista... I was too nervous about uninstalling Vista on my current machine and transferring the license to a new machine, so I just ordered an OEM one-machine license copy of Vista. Probably a dumb thing to do, but whichever family member gets this older machine will get Vista.
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post #103 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 06:53 AM
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Hmmmm..there's something up with those scores...the move from 0aa to 4xaa should have some impact, and it doesn't on his system...on my own rig I take about a 20fps hit going from 0 or 2x to 4xaa. Are you running SLI?

Hmmm...unless the 1600x1050 resolution is low enough that his videocard can give him free 4xaa at that rez on that game...Hmmmmmm. I do know that on my system the move from 0aa to 2xaa is free, there is no framerate penalty even at 1920x1080.

BUT ANYHOW:
First of all, dont test with Trilinear filtering because you'd never play the game that way unless you like all your textures to blur out when you look at them off-axis. Set your AF to either 4x or 8x.

Leave V-Sync off, we want max frames for benchmarking purposes.

Then re-run

If you get free 4xAA at 1600x1050 thats very cool...
My own scores top out at 178fps with 2xaa and 8xaf at 1920x1080. When I turn to 4xaa I drop down to about 155fps I think.

UNPLAYABLE!

Time for SLI!

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post #104 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 09:46 AM
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And by the way, the E6600 is $220, the Q6600 is $375, a bit more than the E6850

The Q6600, and E6850 are the same price, at least up here in Canada, they both go for $280ish.
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post #105 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Hmmmm..there's something up with those scores...the move from 0aa to 4xaa should have some impact, and it doesn't on his system...on my own rig I take about a 20fps hit going from 0 or 2x to 4xaa. Are you running SLI?

Hmmm...unless the 1600x1050 resolution is low enough that his videocard can give him free 4xaa at that rez on that game...Hmmmmmm. I do know that on my system the move from 0aa to 2xaa is free, there is no framerate penalty even at 1920x1080.

BUT ANYHOW:
First of all, dont test with Trilinear filtering because you'd never play the game that way unless you like all your textures to blur out when you look at them off-axis. Set your AF to either 4x or 8x.

Leave V-Sync off, we want max frames for benchmarking purposes.

Then re-run

If you get free 4xAA at 1600x1050 thats very cool...
My own scores top out at 178fps with 2xaa and 8xaf at 1920x1080. When I turn to 4xaa I drop down to about 155fps I think.

UNPLAYABLE!

Time for SLI!

I'll rerun some different tests tonight. I even restarted the game a couple of times and reran some of the tests just to be sure the scores were right. I know I did a 8X filtering setting but don't remember what it was. I'll set all the stuff to max tonight and leave v-synch off and see what I get. I've never been a big benchmark tester so forgive my ignorance

Jim
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post #106 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I ordered the E6850 this morning from a company linked from Pricewatch.com, so my fingers are crossed on that one.

Dave,
Let us know how everything goes with Antares Digital, I'm tempted to order a CPU from there too.
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post #107 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Dave,
Let us know how everything goes with Antares Digital, I'm tempted to order a CPU from there too.

So far I received the "processed order" emails yesterday (Monday), but nothing else. I emailed them this morning inquiring the estimated shipping timeframe and didn't receive a reply all day, which had me worried.

So this afternoon (Tuesday) I called and spoke to a friendly woman who said the CPU went out today and I should receive a UPS tracking number tonight via email.

Fingers crossed.
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post #108 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 07:05 PM
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Hopefully DaverJ hasn't ordered from one of these joints

http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/

I remember shopping for my HD Camcorder and seeing some of the stores on that website advertising it for $400 below the lowest "average" price

Sopranos anyone? Fall off a Truck?

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post #109 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 08:22 PM
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Ok ran some more tests tonight and here are the details. Still not much of a change between all settings.

Half Life 2 Lost Coast stress test.
E6850 3.0 GHZ
Asus P5K Deluxe
2GB G.Skil DDR2-800
EVGA 8800GTX

1680 x 1050 32 bit
all tests had every setting set at high (which is the highest) reflect all and
v-synch off.

4x MSAA Antialiasing
4x Anistropic Filtering
173.02 fps

next up

4x
8x
172.92 fps avg

then

6x
8x
172.38 fps avg

and finally (highest setting on these)

6x
16x
172.34 fps avg.

A couple of times I even restarted the game between settings and it made no difference in the scores. I ran a couple of those tests twice but it really didn't make any difference. Maybe like a 172.34 compared to a 172.55.

Hope that helps out. Let me know if you think I'm doing something wrong and I'll run em again or change something.

Jim
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post #110 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 08:23 PM
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Also Dave those Dell 2407HC's are calling my name Trying to remain strong

Jim
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post #111 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post

Hope that helps out. Let me know if you think I'm doing something wrong and I'll run em again or change something.

Man, you are making me excited about putting this computer together -- thanks for posting your results. Did you see any tearing during the tests? Also, you might want to run the free version of 3Dmark06. That will stress your computer a lot more than the Half Life 2 one, but I'll bet your rig will eat it up, spit it out and laugh.

We will have identical CPUs, video card and RAM (except I sprung for 4 gigs, albeit 5 CAS), so it will be interesting to compare the HL2 stress fps at my 1920x1200 res. My parts are rolling in today, tomorrow and finally my CPU is scheduled to arrive on Thursday.

Oh, and the 2407HC is the reason I'm doing all this. Games look soooo good on it.
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post #112 of 204 Old 07-24-2007, 10:58 PM
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^^^ Did not see any tearing. Images all looked fantastic. It would look better on a 24" Dell I was very tempted tonight. I saw they were on sale and almost pulled the trigger. But a 24 will not fit on my current desk/hutch so I need to find a new desk also. It's always something.....

Jim
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post #113 of 204 Old 07-25-2007, 06:25 AM
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Ok, your scores don't change at *ALL* no matter WHAT setting?!??!?!?!?...
EVEN AT 6XAA???!?!?!?


My head is hurting...not that I doubt you, but because I've never, ever seen that happen, not at a relatively high rez like 1600x1050.....usually AA gives some kind of performance hit.

Hell tonight I'll have to set my output to 1600x1050 and see if I can replicate those scores.

WAIT..just to be sure: You didn't mess around with your drivers did you? I mean did you go into the driver panel and manually force any settings, like 2xaa or something? that would over-ride the in-game settings so even tho you set the game to 4x or 6xaa you'd still be running at 2x...if you set it up that way in the drivers..

????

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post #114 of 204 Old 07-25-2007, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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...24" Dell I was very tempted tonight. I saw they were on sale and almost pulled the trigger.

Where did you see them on sale?

Also, does anyone feel I should add a SATA DVD burner or is my 2 month old E-IDE fine?
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post #115 of 204 Old 07-25-2007, 07:13 AM
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E-IDE is fine

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post #116 of 204 Old 07-25-2007, 08:25 AM
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I put an ASUS SATA DVD burner and a ASUS DVD-ROM SATA in mine but if I had a E-IDE I would have used it but it was nice to go all SATA. Nice and clean.

HeadRusch..
The only change I did when I installed the latest Nvidia drivers was to set image quality to highest. Would that change those scores? Nothing else was changed.
Should I change it back and rerun?

Daverj

I saw on the Dell small business site they had them for $609.00 and free 3 to 5 day shipping. Good Deal?

Jim
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post #117 of 204 Old 07-25-2007, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post

HeadRusch..
The only change I did when I installed the latest Nvidia drivers was to set image quality to highest. Would that change those scores? Nothing else was changed.
Should I change it back and rerun?

This is probably why your scores were all the same. Setting anything other then "Application Preference" in the Nvidia drivers overrides the games settings. So although you thought you were changing the settings you were probably running 8xAA/16xAF everytime.

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post #118 of 204 Old 07-25-2007, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post

I put an ASUS SATA DVD burner and a ASUS DVD-ROM SATA in mine but if I had a E-IDE I would have used it but it was nice to go all SATA. Nice and clean.

HeadRusch..
The only change I did when I installed the latest Nvidia drivers was to set image quality to highest. Would that change those scores? Nothing else was changed.
Should I change it back and rerun?

Daverj

I saw on the Dell small business site they had them for $609.00 and free 3 to 5 day shipping. Good Deal?

Jim

SATA...cool, I'll stick with E-IDE, thanks.

Image Quality... I'll bet that setting is forcing the selected AA. For benchmarking you need to let the application decide. This info will help Rusch breath easier.

2407HC... great price, $70 off! I'm going to email Dell and see if they'll offer me a refund - thanks for the heads up.
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post #119 of 204 Old 07-25-2007, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Ok, your scores don't change at *ALL* no matter WHAT setting?!??!?!?!?...
EVEN AT 6XAA???!?!?!?


My head is hurting...not that I doubt you, but because I've never, ever seen that happen, not at a relatively high rez like 1600x1050.....usually AA gives some kind of performance hit.

Hell tonight I'll have to set my output to 1600x1050 and see if I can replicate those scores.

WAIT..just to be sure: You didn't mess around with your drivers did you? I mean did you go into the driver panel and manually force any settings, like 2xaa or something? that would over-ride the in-game settings so even tho you set the game to 4x or 6xaa you'd still be running at 2x...if you set it up that way in the drivers..

????


Keep in mind that the resolution is very low compared to a lot of new benchmarks out there. Thats a 1.76mp (1680x1050) image on his screen refreshing that fast. Hard to comprehend eh? His videocard is quite a beast. My 1920x1080 (2.07mp image) doesnt take a hit when I run 4xAA on my x1950xt depending on the game.

If I had the cash, I would get a 6800gtx. But I think I will wait till the next generation.

Congrats on your new system to the OP. My E6400 @ 3.4 stock voltage is quite fast. Any C2D E6*** series will be GPU limited in most cases.
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post #120 of 204 Old 07-25-2007, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Congrats on your new system to the OP. My E6400 @ 3.4 stock voltage is quite fast. Any C2D E6*** series will be GPU limited in most cases.

Good info, thanks. The CPU gives room for another 8800GTX videocard for SLI when it's needed (Crysis?).

Dell didn't give me a $70 refund because 1) I was past the 21-day price guarantee and 2) the price reducation was in "Small Business" dept. and I bought from "Home" dept, which doesn't have the price drop. But they did give a $30 refund to keep me happy, so that's better than nothing. Thanks motoman for the extra cash.
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