Denon DVD3800BDCI Owner's Thread - Page 177 - AVS Forum
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post #5281 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 08:52 AM
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Installed the 1.119 update last night and all went well.

According to the instructions that came with the update, A544 is the verification code that confirms the firmware was correctly installed.
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post #5282 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstorchh View Post

Installed the 1.119 update last night and all went well.

According to the instructions that came with the update, A544 is the verification code that confirms the firmware was correctly installed.

Ahhh ok. I didn't print them out. I just used the instructions from an earlier FW update that I had printed out thinking they were all the same.

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post #5283 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 10:55 AM
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Hello,

I found a great deal on a refurbushed Denon from Tiger Direct. I was eying on the Pioneer BDP-51FD (low price) or Elite BDP-05FD (still 2 Benjamin Franklin less than the Denon). Please tell me the benefits of going with the Denon. I am currently using a Toshiba HD-XA2 and an Onkyo 805 receiver. I am bitstreaming signals to the receiver on HDMI. I have a lot of regular DVDs and upconversion ability is important to me. Thank you.

Michaelmorio
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post #5284 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelmorio View Post

Hello,

I found a great deal on a refurbushed Denon from Tiger Direct. I was eying on the Pioneer BDP-51FD (low price) or Elite BDP-05FD (still 2 Benjamin Franklin less than the Denon). Please tell me the benefits of going with the Denon. I am currently using a Toshiba HD-XA2 and an Onkyo 805 receiver. I am bitstreaming signals to the receiver on HDMI. I have a lot of regular DVDs and upconversion ability is important to me. Thank you.

Michaelmorio

Get on the waiting list for the Oppo player. You will have no regrets.

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #5285 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 01:40 PM
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@ mstorchh

To tell even more exactly, this is a checksum of the just installed firmware file. So it is to be expected that this number differs from version to version.
When the checksum gets displayed, it's time to complete the process by pulling the plug to un-power the unit.

Âand now to something completely different!
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post #5286 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Get on the waiting list for the Oppo player. You will have no regrets.

EWLS,

Do you own both the Denon and the OPPO? If so how are they compare?

Michaelmorio
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post #5287 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelmorio View Post

Do you own both the Denon and the OPPO? If so how are they compare?

yeah, I'd like to know his impressions of analog audio for CD sources (2ch OUT's)
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post #5288 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelmorio View Post

EWLS,

Do you own both the Denon and the OPPO? If so how are they compare?

Michaelmorio

I've got both but have yet to open the Oppo from the box. I hope to do so today and will do very limited testing.

If you want quick comparisons, I'm sure Jeff (thebland) will tell you that the Oppo is better value for the money.

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #5289 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 04:19 PM
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Hello:
Picked up my 3800 today and all I can say is wow. I had a elite 05 nice unit. But this to me just blows it away so far. better pq and sq just from hdmi. trying analog tommorow. Downloaded the new firmware all went quick and well. Mine also was manufactured after 24fps fix. Thanks to all who responded yesterday.

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post #5290 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelmorio View Post

EWLS,

Do you own both the Denon and the OPPO? If so how are they compare?

Michaelmorio

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

yeah, I'd like to know his impressions of analog audio for CD sources (2ch OUT's)

Ok guys. Finally did some comparing b/w the 3800 and the Oppo. Not the fairest of comparisons but quick and dirty:

1) RCA interconnects are Audioquest Sidewinder
2) MCH out to my Rotel RSX-1067 receiver under BYPASS mode.
3) Speakers are DefTech BP7002 for fronts, CLR2500 center, and 2 BPX rears.

BD Audio Test

I used Immortal Beloved, which is about the great Beethoven. I used chapter 15 where they're playing the "Ode to Joy" under full orchestra. The Denon was pleasing as always. The Oppo did seem a little bright and this seems to be rearing its head in the Oppo thread. However, the overall presentation was enjoyable. I also tried chapter 5 where Beethoven plays until he is interrupted by a suitor. In this scene, the piano sounded more or less identical b/w the Denon and the Oppo.

CD

Norah Jones: Come Away With Me

Tracks 1 Don't Know Why and 3 Cold Cold Heart. Here, the presentation was too close to call. If I had to give the edge, it would be the Denon as it seemed to bring out more notes due to the AL24 upsampling.

Mussorgsky: Pictures At an Exhibition SACD/CD hybrid (playing only CD side)

Again the Denon seemed to have the edge. However, I'd say most people would be happy with the Oppo's presentation. Of course this is greatly dependent on equipment as well.

Disclaimer: There was an attempt to level match the 2 players with an SPL meter but values were forgotten in the excitement of putting the Oppo through its paces. However, I did calibrate for delay and level for the Oppo's own audio as a bare minimum. Also, keep in mind the players were auditioned one at a time as I only have one set of 5.1 interconnects so memory may prove a factor as well.

The Oppo is a beautiful and substantial player and it doesn't give up much to the Denon 3800!

Look for a full fledged review/tests for analog and PCM over HDMI in the near future.

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #5291 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 05:43 PM
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EWL5 - thanks for your quick review. I look forward to your full blown account soon!
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post #5292 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

renmeister:

I have had a few blue-ray players over the last couple of years. All had some kind of issues (I guess the nature of the beast). I just sold my 05fd just an issue with me concerning the overlong awaited firmware for dts ma. I have been following this thread for some time and have allways been interested in this unit. I have been offerd a new one at a great price I cannot refuse. I have one question is there any pattern to this 24fps issue? MFG date certain serial #s . Before I purchased I checked with Dennon CS they seemed to be totally ignorant of such issues. The unit I am purchasing has been sitting in a store room factory sealed fot about 4 or 5 months. Fortunately I am close enough to the Dennon repair facility I can run it up. I guess I will have to wait and see. I also noted That there were quite a lot of firmware updates issued. In most other units I had the most recent took care of all. Dennon CS states that is not the case with theirs. Any work of wisdom from you or the Bland etc would be appreciated. Although I have an HDMI 1.3A capable receiver I prefer the analogs that also is Dennon 4308CI.
Rob.

I know my serial was of the first production run. My bd stunk from the onset. I qualified for the firmware upgrade but waited until the majority of the software upgrades were available and my lasers both red and blue started to act up and then sent the unit back for warranty service and upgrades. The people I have spoken with at Denon did not create any uncertainty re: service at this point. I loved what the DVD3800BDCI did right std. dvd upscale and the sound was strong for a mass market product. If they just fix the blu-ray and the red ray, LOL, I would again buy this piece. Try to stay away from the 02/08 production date, that seems to have the 24fps issue. Renmeister
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post #5293 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 06:46 PM
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EWL5,

Thank you for the quick report. Keep us posted on the further findings.
Also, can you dig deeper into the video quality comparison?
I know my Toshiba HD-XA2 does very good job upscaling regular DVDs. I expect at least the same or more from the Denon for its Realta chip. How that big brother comares to the OPPO? Also, another questionoes the Denon have a coolign fan? If so how does its noise comare to that of the OPPO's? I hate the noise!

Michaelmorio
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post #5294 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Hello:
Picked up my 3800 today and all I can say is wow. I had a elite 05 nice unit. But this to me just blows it away so far. better pq and sq just from hdmi. trying analog tommorow. Downloaded the new firmware all went quick and well. Mine also was manufactured after 24fps fix. Thanks to all who responded yesterday.

William06,

Glad you liked your Denon. Can you elaborate the pq & sq difference of the Denon and the Elite 05 more?

Thank you.

Michaelmorio
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post #5295 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelmorio View Post

William06,

Glad you liked your Denon. Can you elaborate the pq & sq difference of the Denon and the Elite 05 more?

Thank you.

Michaelmorio

Other then the 24fps fix which was limited to early production pieces and having the opportunity to go back and do it again 20/20, or even today dealing with the service issue. I know of no better std.dvd upscaling or sound. For a mass produced product the audio on a scale of 1-10 is an 8. And I hate digital. I really is surprisingly good. My opinion; buy it. Renmeister
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post #5296 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelmorio View Post

William06,

Glad you liked your Denon. Can you elaborate the pq & sq difference of the Denon and the Elite 05 more?

Thank you.

Michaelmorio

Just a first early impression. A bit better color, better blacks, More adjustments. Firmware easy to download and install. Audio through HDMI seemed more detailed DTS HD Master. CD warmer. This is just my first. I loved the Pio but Definately love this more. If Build quality is your thing this blows the Pio away and that is no slouch by todays standards. There are a couple of details I have to figure out and will approach the form after I do some more research. Also its a nice match for my 4308. Buy it.

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post #5297 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renmeister View Post

Other then the 24fps fix which was limited to early production pieces and having the opportunity to go back and do it again 20/20, or even today dealing with the service issue. I know of no better std.dvd upscaling or sound. For a mass produced product the audio on a scale of 1-10 is an 8. And I hate digital. I really is surprisingly good. My opinion; buy it. Renmeister

Renmeister,

Thanks for your feedback. In your opinion what Blueray players may come ahead of the Denon for the sound quality? Also, this may be a basic question but what's the difference between the SQ of digital audio over HIMD and analog? My receiver has HIMD inputs and it's easier and cost effective to run just a simgle cable for both video and audio rather than using anolog 7.1 out. Or dose analog sound better???

Michaelmorio
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post #5298 of 6654 Old 05-20-2009, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Just a first early impression. A bit better color, better blacks, More adjustments. Firmware easy to download and install. Audio through HDMI seemed more detailed DTS HD Master. CD warmer. This is just my first. I loved the Pio but Definately love this more. If Build quality is your thing this blows the Pio away and that is no slouch by todays standards. There are a couple of details I have to figure out and will approach the form after I do some more research. Also its a nice match for my 4308. Buy it.


William06,

Thanks for your feedback. What monitor are you using? Does this player have a cooling fan? If so is it audible from like 8 feet when sound level is none to minimum?

Michaelmorio
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post #5299 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelmorio View Post

Renmeister,

Thanks for your feedback. In your opinion what Blueray players may come ahead of the Denon for the sound quality? Also, this may be a basic question but what's the difference between the SQ of digital audio over HIMD and analog? My receiver has HIMD inputs and it's easier and cost effective to run just a simgle cable for both video and audio rather than using anolog 7.1 out. Or dose analog sound better???

Michaelmorio

The basic difference between analog 7.1 Audio vs. HDMI audio is in any case: If you go HDMI, your receiver/amplifier does all the audio management. If your AVR can decode all signals and has fair audio management abilities (as Denons 4308 for example), you're better off with digital. If your AVR is an older or less capable one (lacking HD-Codecs, for instance) but has 7.1 inputs, you can let the DVD3800 do the decoding and Audio-Management. You then need to set up all necessary info in the 3800.
An AVR as the 4308 with appropriate audyssey set-up done spares you of experiments with metering your speakers and so on.
Apart from it there are test at numerous sites (e.g. http://www.area-dvd.de, german site though). Some state analog audio would sound better, others say the opposite. So, apart from the technical advances of going HDMI, you might test both scenarios and choose by your taste.

Âand now to something completely different!
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post #5300 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyespy39 View Post

The basic difference between analog 7.1 Audio vs. HDMI audio is in any case: If you go HDMI, your receiver/amplifier does all the audio management. If your AVR can decode all signals and has fair audio management abilities (as Denons 4308 for example), you're better off with digital. If your AVR is an older or less capable one (lacking HD-Codecs, for instance) but has 7.1 inputs, you can let the DVD3800 do the decoding and Audio-Management. You then need to set up all necessary info in the 3800.
An AVR as the 4308 with appropriate audyssey set-up done spares you of experiments with metering your speakers and so on.
Apart from it there are test at numerous sites (e.g. http://www.area-dvd.de, german site though). Some state analog audio would sound better, others say the opposite. So, apart from the technical advances of going HDMI, you might test both scenarios and choose by your taste.


I do agree on the audio info you state. I prefer analog pure direct 2 channel mostly for serious music listening. I do like having the choice of going either way for multi movie watching.
I do have one question on the set up of the 3800 and I would appreciate some help. My projector is a panny 900 lcd. It is 720p but has always accepted 1080p/24 from several other HD, and Blu units in the past. Even though it down converts I feel the picture is more filmlike. Of course that could be just mental. My concern is at this point I cannot set this (3800) for the 1080/24 setting it is grayed out. I know my display does accept it. Please any suggestions. Other than this so far I am loving this unit.

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post #5301 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

I do agree on the audio info you state. I prefer analog pure direct 2 channel mostly for serious music listening. I do like having the choice of going either way for multi movie watching.
I do have one question on the set up of the 3800 and I would appreciate some help. My projector is a panny 900 lcd. It is 720p but has always accepted 1080p/24 from several other HD, and Blu units in the past. Even though it down converts I feel the picture is more filmlike. Of course that could be just mental. My concern is at this point I cannot set this (3800) for the 1080/24 setting it is grayed out. I know my display does accept it. Please any suggestions. Other than this so far I am loving this unit.

I/P Direct must be ON for 1080p/24 to work.

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post #5302 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelmorio View Post

William06,

Thanks for your feedback. What monitor are you using? Does this player have a cooling fan? If so is it audible from like 8 feet when sound level is none to minimum?

Michaelmorio

The fan is so quiet I didn't think it had one, until someone pointed out that it does. I doubt if there is any BD player that is as quiet as this one.
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post #5303 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

I/P Direct must be ON for 1080p/24 to work.

I thought that might be it thanks I will give it a try today. I also did not notice the fan and thought it had none.

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post #5304 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

I/P Direct must be ON for 1080p/24 to work.

I did the I/P on and it works fantastic on blu ray this is one great unit. Thanks again for the help. Did some 2 channel audio direct also very very good.

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post #5305 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 01:32 PM
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The fan is so quiet I didn't think it had one, until someone pointed out that it does. I doubt if there is any BD player that is as quiet as this one.


I'm surprised that you say your unit is very quiet! Mine is quite audible, but is not fully enclosed in a rack!

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post #5306 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

CD Norah Jones: Come Away With Me

Tracks 1 Don't Know Why and 3 Cold Cold Heart. Here, the presentation was too close to call. If I had to give the edge, it would be the Denon as it seemed to bring out more notes due to the AL24 upsampling.

Mussorgsky: Pictures At an Exhibition SACD/CD hybrid (playing only CD side)

Again the Denon seemed to have the edge. However, I'd say most people would be happy with the Oppo's presentation. Of course this is greatly dependent on equipment as well.

The Oppo is a beautiful and substantial player and it doesn't give up much to the Denon 3800!

interesting, thanks for your input.

Actually I broke down and ordered a BDP-83 yesterday, I should receive it some time next week. Guess I figured I would take advantage of the "priority ordering" e-mail I received last, one-time limited offer (as if I needed another player). I'll probably hold onto it for a few weeks before I install it, much physical work involved. I usually wait to make multiple systems changes all at the same time.

So have you been playing (multi-channel) SACD's using 5.1ch analog OUT's? I'd be curious to hear differences between 5.1ch OUT's and playing via-HDMI (LPCM).
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post #5307 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Just a first early impression. A bit better color, better blacks, More adjustments. Firmware easy to download and install. Audio through HDMI seemed more detailed DTS HD Master. CD warmer. This is just my first. I loved the Pio but Definately love this more. If Build quality is your thing this blows the Pio away and that is no slouch by todays standards

I find the Denon DVD-3800BDCI and the Pioneer BDP-05FD a very close (tough) comparison. While the Denon has a few more detailed adjustments, pristine SD-DVD up-scaling and un-surpassed analog audio (for 2ch and 7.1ch), the Pioneer's SD-DVD up-scaling is superb with great 2ch and 5.1ch analog sound. There's something about the Pioneer's color characteristic, matched with my Kuro display, that is just breath-taking. But the Denon is a world in-itself. the CD (analog) audio is un-surpassed (I think), very slightly nicer sounding than the Pioneer's Wolfson DAC's.
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post #5308 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 04:02 PM
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This afternoon it was the first time my Wife sat and watched anything or listned with me on the dennon. She asked if there was any difference. I told her to tell me. 2 Minutes into the movie she said no difference except a great picture and the audio sounds much cleaner. That was Valkyrie Dts HD Master analog.

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post #5309 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 04:49 PM
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Now that I've more or less finished comparing the analog audio b/w the 3800 and the Oppo, I started some video comparisons.

The Oppo performed well on the included Spears and Munsil disc. It also aced the HQV BD and DVD benchmarks with the following exception:

The Oppo has very poor mosquito NR. If I were to give numberical values it would look like the following:

1) Denon 3800 - HQV Realta gets a 10/10 (that's where my money went!)
2) Pioneer Pro1130HD Plasma - Pioneer's NR gets a 7/10 (plasma used as a reference for NR as I haven't gotten around to testing in the LR yet)
3) Oppo BDP83 - ABT VRS barely does anything to mosquito noise in the demo scenes of the HQV discs. Only a 2/10.

Other than NR, I found the Edge Enhancement and other video refinements to be very good on the Oppo. I guess if you are a video purist, then you're never touching these fine tuning picture controls anyway.

BD playback was fine as expected. Played Iron Man and the gunfire and chaos sounded exactly like how I rememebered it on the 3800. BD quality more or less will be even b/w all competent BD players.

DVD playback was phenomenal. I put in LOTR Fellowship of the Rings EE and watched the beginning Prologue. The smoothness of the playback nearly had me wanting to watch the rest of the movie (reality of sitting for 3 hours sobered me!) I don't recall if the Denon was this good but I do have an older 720p projector that never really played nice with the Denon (for those of you who remember my rant concerning the jaggies in There Will Be Blood DVD). If DVD playback is important to you, the Oppo builds on its champion 983 DVD player and gives you SACD/DVD-A/BD to boot.
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Edit - Played LOTR on the Denon and it seemed to lack some detail compared to the Oppo. However, there are some reports from Oppo owners that Detail and Edge Enhancement had to be turned down a couple notches after calibrating.

In a number of cadence test, including 2:2, the Denon either failed to lock or took well over a second to get rid of the moire pattern in the racetrack. The Denon had previously passed HQV's benchmarks in this regard but did poorly on the S&M disc. The funny thing is the Denon did very well on the difficult edits test, which should be more difficult. Additionally there are also the following tests that are not synthetic but real video footage:

Hockey (SD) - as the game progressed, you could see the Denon struggle to remove jaggies from straight lines and the circles on the hockey rink.

Ropes (SD) - some people are climbing up the mast of a ship. Although jaggies are held at bay, coiling is evident in some of the bigger ropes. Anyone who has seen a "failure" on HQV's guitar strumming sequence knows what I'm talking about.

On a positive note, the Denon seemed to perform slightly better than the Oppo in regards to the Mixed Film and Video Vertical and Horizontal scrolls.
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The Oppo is highly recommended for all but the most discerning audiophiles. In analog audio, the 3800 still has a slight edge and build quality is slightly better.

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #5310 of 6654 Old 05-21-2009, 06:44 PM
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EWL5,

Thank you for your feedback.
Are you saying the OPPO is better for regular DVDs than the Denon for video quality? I thought the Realta chip does better with upconversion than the ABT solution.
Could you check the Denon with the LOTR DVD and do a fair comparison? I am torn between the two. I weigh video quality more than audio quality if I had to take one over the other.
Thank you.

Michaelmorio
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