Denon DVD3800BDCI Owner's Thread - Page 23 - AVS Forum
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post #661 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 04:55 PM
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So. if you are sending DTS MA via LPCM over HDMI...Will the display on the unit AND the OSD tell you exactly that?

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #662 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post

Joe,
Would you have remote codes for say a Pronto remote for the 3800? I tried to teach my pronto remote using the 3800 remote but no luck!!
Ash

it will work just hold remote about a foot away
had the same problem
then it learmed it
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post #663 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jsteinhauer View Post

All right, I apologize if this is a really stupid question. There are a few reasons why I bought this player, and one is that I wanted a very good upconverting DVD player without needing an additional piece of hardware. It otherwise meets my needs. However, I need help objectively convincing myselft that SD DVDs are looking better, and I don't know how to prove this. By eye, with a few random DVD's, I sense a perceptible difference, but it so far has not been striking, and maybe it's not something that is terribly important on a 52" LCD display. You can tell me that. I need to convince myself that I need to keep this player, rather than opting for the 2500, which may fulfill my other needs.

Watch some classic DVDs like Alien or Jurassic Park. To me, they might just as well be Blu-ray since they look so good (on a Sony 70'' rear projection 720p). The Reon on the Samsung 5000 wowed me too but it had other probs.
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post #664 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 05:26 PM
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I am floored by the upconvert of the SD DVD's especially the concerts. I also played a star wars dvd and said to myself.....This is what is was like when I went to the Lowes Theater in times square for the premier opening of the 1st Star Wars movie so many years ago. Please don't go crazy looking to get it any better. It has arrived! Just enjoy the idea that you bought one of the best available and move on! Start enjoying the SD movies all over again!
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post #665 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 05:34 PM
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How does dtshdma sound compared to pcm and truehd. Have a good day
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post #666 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 05:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by petethebaker View Post

How does dtshdma sound compared to pcm and truehd. Have a good day

Some say better. Others say the same. What specifically are you looking for? This is a very, very, very subjective issue. You really need to go hear for yourself.
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post #667 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by petethebaker View Post

How does dtshdma sound compared to pcm and truehd. Have a good day

Also depends on the track and its recording. Sometimes matter of preference or taste. Some movies the LPCM sound awesome, but so far since getting this player, DTS-MA definitely sounds the best on some of the flicks. But again, there are many tracks with LPCM such as the Pirates series which sound just as good.
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post #668 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

So. if you are sending DTS MA via LPCM over HDMI...Will the display on the unit AND the OSD tell you exactly that?

I would think so. I have mine setup for analogs and the OSD shows the format selected and playing. Cannot imagine the OSD would be different over HDMI.
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post #669 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsteinhauer View Post

Interesting, indeed!

I could not resist.

Using 3:10 to Yuma 7.1 PCM track, while in HD Audio, I get full 7.1 channel sound, according to my AVR panel and speakers. On Mix Audio, my AVR panel shows 7.1 channels, but I get output from only 5.1 speakers.



For Quickster, if you are using HDMI, you can work around the LFE bug. In the player, you can set all speakers to large and reduce all channels except the sub -5dB, then let your AVR handle surround sound as normal.

Thanks for your answer. On my 4306 I could just boost the sub +5 and accomplish the same thing? The 4306 remembers the speaker settings (each speaker individually) based on the last setting for each input. I was running analog until the Panny firmware allowed 7.1 PCM over HDMI. For the 3800 (on order) I'll utilize PCM HDMI as I do not know any benefit of using analog. Thanks again to Bob P. and Jsteinhauer.
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post #670 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 06:22 PM
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Hello there,

I just went through all the postings on this thread and WOW there is a lot of information to decipher It sounds like this is one good player and would satisfy most people's needs. I am confused about one thing and hope someone can help me out.

I have a Lexicon MC-12 (non HD version) and am considering purchasing this player. The Lex does not have HDMI capabilities, so I will be forced to use 5.1 Analog inputs. I have read that I can pass DTS MA and True Dolby signals through the analog outputs of the Denon player. So how does one deal with a 7.1 analog signal from a Blu ray disc, that can only go into a 5.1 analog input to my Lex? I will be missing 2 channels of info? I am confused by this

I also read that I will not be able to pass the DTS HR and Dolby + signals through the analog outputs of the Denon Player? I am not sure how big a deal that is....or is it a big deal?

Thanks in advance for the help~!
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post #671 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 06:24 PM
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Does this player have the LFE bug?

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #672 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

So. if you are sending DTS MA via LPCM over HDMI...Will the display on the unit AND the OSD tell you exactly that?

The display on the unit displays DTS-HD MSTR. Pressing "audio" on the remote displays DTS-HD Multi-ch.
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post #673 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 06:32 PM
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Just finished watching I-robot on the 3800...I was astounded by the PQ and SQ (great to finally have access to DTS-HD MA) using this player. If the flaws discussed are corrected via firmware update, I don't see any regrets with the purchase.
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post #674 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Does this player have the LFE bug?

Jeff, read the first post. The low LFE issue for PCM output appears to exist with this player. Someone used DVE and found the 3800's behavior to be the same as the BD30 before its recent firmware update. His method for testing is valid.
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post #675 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeD View Post

Hello there,

I just went through all the postings on this thread and WOW there is a lot of information to decipher It sounds like this is one good player and would satisfy most people's needs. I am confused about one thing and hope someone can help me out.

I have a Lexicon MC-12 (non HD version) and am considering purchasing this player. The Lex does not have HDMI capabilities, so I will be forced to use 5.1 Analog inputs. I have read that I can pass DTS MA and True Dolby signals through the analog outputs of the Denon player. So how does one deal with a 7.1 analog signal from a Blu ray disc, that can only go into a 5.1 analog input to my Lex? I will be missing 2 channels of info? I am confused by this

I also read that I will not be able to pass the DTS HR and Dolby + signals through the analog outputs of the Denon Player? I am not sure how big a deal that is....or is it a big deal?

Thanks in advance for the help~!

I guess you missed this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post13409026
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post #676 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post

I guess you missed this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post13409026

Hey there....I guess I missed that posting, but still am confused.

I know if I use L7, the Lex processes the signal, thus I lose the benefits of the higher bit rates.

Still confused....LOL
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post #677 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 07:04 PM
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Guys- FYI.....The 3800 and 2500 will play +R and +R/DL DVD's. After reading the manual it seems a bit ambiguous if DVD -R and DVD -R/DL meant "minus" or just as a dash. It denotes a dash for the sake of clarity. I have played many +R dvds last weekend and all played no problem if anyone cares.
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post #678 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeD View Post

Hey there....I guess I missed that posting, but still am confused.

I know if I use L7, the Lex processes the signal, thus I lose the benefits of the higher bit rates.

Still confused....LOL

You have two options for getting a 5.1 signal into the Lex. Digital SPDIF (toslink or coax) and analog. If you choose digital any high res audio (true HD, etc) will be downconverted to lossy audio. If you choose analog the 3800 will spit "high res" analog which you can pass thru unprocessed in the lex (using analog bypass) in which case you'd need the 3800 doing speaker management (levels and distances). Alternately you can can have the Lex process the analog channels and apply L7 (etc). If you only have a 5.1 speaker setup then analog bypass may be your best option. If you have a 7.1 speaker setup then I'd suggest you use the analog inputs and process them with L7. The 'high res" signals will still be high res because none of the info is thrown away like it is with DD, DTS, etc. It won't be as good as what might be but I think it will still be pretty darn decent. YMMV.

Alternately you can take advantage of Lexicons trade in program and get a MC12 HD but even that cannot process 7.1 audio.

Geof
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post #679 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Jeff, read the first post. The low LFE issue for PCM output appears to exist with this player. Someone used DVE and found the 3800's behavior to be the same as the BD30 before its recent firmware update. His method for testing is valid.

This is absolutely unbelievable. CE's are DEAF to their customers issues. There is no reason for the "bug" to exist any longer on ANY player, espeically on a $2,000 player.
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post #680 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 07:37 PM
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I would hope the LFE issue is addressed on the first firmware update. Panasonic fixed it... I expect Denon to fix it post haste.

Joe, have that engineer's phone # to add this to the list?

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #681 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I would hope the LFE issue is addressed on the first firmware update. Panasonic fixed it... I expect Denon to fix it post haste.

Joe, have that engineer's phone # to add this to the list?

Doesn't it make you wonder if they even test these things before the sell them? Testing I think is:

1. Powerup unit
2. Load movie
3. Movie on screen? Sound?
4. Box up and ship
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post #682 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Joerod has received a phone call from Denon stating that they will be releasing a firmware update to deal with a few issues in the 3800. Although his concern was centered around the 24/23.976 frame rate discrepancy, it could be that they will address the LFE bug as well. Denon stated that the update will be ready in a few weeks, so it would be reasonable to allow them the opportunity to correct any discovered shortcomings within a decent time frame.

As the original poster in this thread, it's obvious that I was/am an enthusiastic Denon supporter. I am concerned that a $2000 player has operational flaws and there has not been a more definitive statement of what problems will be addressed (and when), especially when the LFE bug was known to exist in the Panasonic players (which share a chip with the Denons apparently).

If Denon IS watching this thread closely, I truly hope that they will publicly respond with a statement of firm commitment toward rectifying performance issues in this player.

Lee
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post #683 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eci View Post

Doesn't it make you wonder if they even test these things before the sell them? Testing I think is:

1. Powerup unit
2. Load movie
3. Movie on screen? Sound?
4. Box up and ship

I agree. This is the era of firmware updates, where the consumer assumes the role of beta tester and it takes months before a player operates as it should. It sucks to be honest, for both the early adopter and the company that ultimately loses sales as a result. Whatever happened to the engineering prowess that we've come to expect from companies like Denon? At least they're observing this thread...
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post #684 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 08:22 PM
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I am willing to bet they "fix" more than just the 1080p/24 issue... That is just my hunch.

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

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post #685 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 08:25 PM
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I finally got my 3800 today, tested out Pans Labyrinth, and found that I wasn't hearing 7.1 DTS-MA. My Integra 9.8 only showed 5.1 PCM, while the 3800 showed it was decoding the full DTS-MA, which is 7.1 on Pans Labyrinth. I did change the HD-Audio to 'Normal' and got the full DTS-MA 7.1 Bitstream. So what gives? Does the 3800 only decode 5.1 DTS-MA? Has anyone else tested this?
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post #686 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

I agree. This is the era of firmware updates, where the consumer assumes the role of beta tester and it takes months before a player operates as it should. It sucks to be honest, for both the early adopter and the company that ultimately loses sales as a result. Whatever happened to the engineering prowess that we've come to expect from companies like Denon? At least they're observing this thread...

Call it PC's or Hard Drives, chipsets, processors, but that unfortunately is the issue. All these CE today have one or all and it makes them just like a PC that is always needing an upgrade.

My Denon 4308ci is like that, the PS3, my DVR and even my tv has a usb for upgrades. TV's needing upgrades? WTF! The only thing that doesn't is my speakers, but given time and a chipset or some other PC related hardware and they will too.
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post #687 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

I finally got my 3800 today, tested out Pans Labyrinth, and found that I wasn't hearing 7.1 DTS-MA. My Integra 9.8 only showed 5.1 PCM, while the 3800 showed it was decoding the full DTS-MA, which is 7.1 on Pans Labyrinth. I did change the HD-Audio to 'Normal' and got the full DTS-MA 7.1 Bitstream. So what gives? Does the 3800 only decode 5.1 DTS-MA? Has anyone else tested this?

I observed this as well. It seems to be part of the Mix Audio output. It seems that you can only get Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD master audio and PCM 7.1 when HD Audio is selected IRRESPECTIVE of whether there is a secondary or interactive audio track present at the time, at least over HDMI. It is as expected from the manual, except for the PCM 7.1, which is not commented on in the manual. If you want high definition audio, you will not be able to access secondary or interactive audio. It is a small issue, and a non-issue for me, but may be important to some.
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post #688 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I am willing to bet they "fix" more than just the 1080p/24 issue... That is just my hunch.

What else needs tweaking besides LFE?

Just want to know what to expect.

Thanks,
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post #689 of 6651 Old 03-18-2008, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I am willing to bet they "fix" more than just the 1080p/24 issue... That is just my hunch.

Joe,
I don't hear anybody asking why the player is outputting 24? Is it not putting out an unprocessed picture?

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post #690 of 6651 Old 03-19-2008, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I just received a call from Denon support (actually Engineer Support ) and they told me they will have a firmware fix for the 1080p/24 issue within 2 weeks! He also said it would correct a few minor things as well but did not divulge anymore details. Either way this is terrific news. He also mentioned they are watching this thread to! I am glad I called in there last Friday to report the 1080p/24 issue. And then them calling me back with news about an UPDATE coming soon really impressed me.

I just want to know how we will get this upgrade. With my Xa-2, we could donwload upgrades, how does it work with denon. My dealer rigistered me with denon, do we have to mail in a registration, or can we call, or do it online. I want to get this upgrade when it comes out.

I hope they change the ability to adjust hdmi rgb to ycbcr, so i can have simultaneous component and hdmi/ dvi out, this is one glitch with the player.
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