**WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed to Yamaha, Onkyo or Integra can damage speakers!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The 2500. I am reviewing it for Home Theater.

Cant wait. Can you post a link in the owners thread when youre done?
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post #92 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 11:50 AM
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I retested Chronos using the Dolby Digital 5.1 signal instead of the DTSHD sound and there was no loud pop. Rewound and tried again and still nothing so its definitely only the DTSHD source track that has the pop issue on Chronos

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post #93 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 11:56 AM
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Agreed
Yes its very loud like a loud gun shot or firecracker pop and yes it scares you when you are listening to the soundtrack at normal or above normal levels for movies and it just hits you all of a sudden and you cringe in fear that your speakers are now toast. Luckily they arent but surely they cant take that kind of abuse over and over without some damage if it happens again and you dont know when it will happen

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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

You guys just don't get it. That is not what we are talking about. That pop is just a break in the digital signal. Things have been doing that since the DVD days. That is why so many AVRs and SSPs have adjustable muting for digital signals. This is not a simple pop. If you heard this it would scare you to death.


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post #94 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Cant wait. Can you post a link in the owners thread when youre done?

The review is for the print publication. I am not sure if it will be appearing online or not.

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post #95 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

The Fly is the disk I, and a handful of others, have an issue with. Being reported with other disk now as well.

Panasonic BD30 with firmware 1.6 but also did it with firmware 1.4. Yamaha 1800, full range speakers and Klipsch subwoofer.

Have to laugh at folks dissing equipment being "over loaded", cables, etc. This is NOT a cable issue. It is NOT a POP. Those who have experienced it know exactly what is meant and once you do, you'll understand that pop is no where near the idea.

The problem with using the disk on other equipment is whose? Just who do I ask to play back a disk that can potentially damage their speakers? Would you want me asking you?

There is something in the coding, disk media, something, and it is at precisely the same spot for those of us having it with The Fly. It is no universal for all The Fly disk. There is a batch of them that have the problem. So just because The Fly plays fine in one set of equipment does not then mean it is our equipment. It means you have a good disk.

The disks that have the problem need to be put in a lab and tested to see what it is. Fox apparently didn't even bother but just sent me a replacement disk that does the same thing at exactly the same spot.

"...quick burst of bass." Yes but given my dog's response and quick fearful exit I believe it is full spectrum and not just bass. Clearly hurt her ears.

You're correct and that is why I mentioned the sound may very from system to system. It depends on the type of speakers, receiver/amps, and speaker settings that will impact the actual sound one hears. In my case it sounded like a loud bass pop probably because of my overall system settings/system.

Most importantly though for anyone wondering if they've got this issue is the sound is significantlly louder than what the moive track is playing at.

The good news for me is that I'm very confident that it's the disk that has the problem and NOT our equipment.
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post #96 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinglerxt View Post

Agreed
Yes its very loud like a loud gun shot or firecracker pop and yes it scares you when you are listening to the soundtrack at normal or above normal levels for movies and it just hits you all of a sudden and you cringe in fear that your speakers are now toast. Luckily they arent but surely they cant take that kind of abuse over and over without some damage if it happens again and you dont know when it will happen

It hasn't happened to me, but Im a little hesitant to watch any DTS movies now. I listen at very loud volumes and something like that would certainly damage several thousand dollars in equipment.
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post #97 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 12:03 PM
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Agreed unless you could just dump it to a PC recording device with no monitor speakers hooked up but since its DTSHD you cant take the sound out from the optical due to the copy protection so only way to record it would be thru the air
Of course that should only be done with someones crappy speakers they are willing to lose if it causes damage
Not going to do it on my set
They are already older and I cant afford any more new speakers with all the cash Ive spent in the last 4 months on my HT setup

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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

It is such a quick transient that it would be hard to capture and do justice. Plus I would never recommend reproducing the noise at any normal listening level.


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post #98 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 12:13 PM
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Absolutely agree
I had my volume at around 65 (absolute 0-100 scale) on my Onkyo AVR when I was playing Chronos and heard the bang/pop. It had to be easily 10-20decibels louder than what was playing at the time, which in the case of the Chronos segment that gives the pop/bang!! (38:50 to 38:55) that is playing a slow organ tone with lows and highs mixed together. No way you could miss it. Someone outside my house could of probably heard it, never mind someone in the other rooms of the house, if someone else had been home with me at the time, would have definitely scared my wife or son big time

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Originally Posted by Midwest User1 View Post

Most importantly though for anyone wondering if they've got this issue is the sound is significantlly louder than what the moive track is playing at.


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post #99 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 12:29 PM
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I say it must be an authoring issue.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
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post #100 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by shamus View Post

It hasn't happened to me, but Im a little hesitant to watch any DTS movies now. I listen at very loud volumes and something like that would certainly damage several thousand dollars in equipment.

FYI. I've watched quite a few DTS HD MA movies now and the only one I've had this sound with was "The Fly" as I don't have any of the other ones listed as culprits. Although I agree it does tend to make someone hesitant to watch a movies DTS HD MA track on a movie they have not scene yet.

Well that's settled let's boycot buying any Fox DTS HD MA titles until they confirm that they'll ensure this problem has been corrected on all of their releases
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post #101 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The review is for the print publication. I am not sure if it will be appearing online or not.

Can you please give us a heads up when it's published? Thanks!
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post #102 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Mine, I will also have the Denon player sometime today as well.

I use Denon with 30 no loud pop
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post #103 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 04:03 PM
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Here is the email I received back today from the makers of the Chronos bluray DVD with the loud pop issue:

Hi kinglerxt,

Thank you for the detailed information. Do you have the HD-DVD or Blu-ray
Disc version of CHRONOS?

You are not the first one that has mentioned this to us. It seems that
there is an obvious issue...but we do not know what it is yet. We have had
DTS check the stream...and they verified it was OK. However, with all of the
e-mails and comments on the AVS Forum...we believe this warrants further
investigation. We are looking in to this and will post something on AVS
Forum when we find out what the issue is.

Best Regards,
Richard J. Casey
R&B Films, Ltd.
1057 Lakeville Road
New Hyde Park, NY 11040
Tel: 516-695-0954
Fax: 516-326-0282
Web: www.rbfilms.com

"We each pay a fabulous price, for our visions of paradise. But a spirit with a vision, is a dream with a mission" - Rush
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post #104 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 04:08 PM
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So, this happend with the Panny 30k, Onkyo 8/905-integera 8.8, Yamaha 3800.
Unless the Onkyo and Yamaha use the same DTS HD-MA decoder then the issue based on miss-pressed discs.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
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post #105 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 04:10 PM
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i forgot to add that when a co-worker would borrow and play the discs that i have problems with on his bd-30 and his onkyo (forgot the model #), he did not have a problem with the popping noise.
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post #106 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinglerxt View Post

Here is the email I received back today from the makers of the Chronos bluray DVD with the loud pop issue:

Hi kinglerxt,

Thank you for the detailed information. Do you have the HD-DVD or Blu-ray
Disc version of CHRONOS?

You are not the first one that has mentioned this to us. It seems that
there is an obvious issue...but we do not know what it is yet. We have had
DTS check the stream...and they verified it was OK. However, with all of the
e-mails and comments on the AVS Forum...we believe this warrants further
investigation. We are looking in to this and will post something on AVS
Forum when we find out what the issue is.

Best Regards,
Richard J. Casey
R&B Films, Ltd.
1057 Lakeville Road
New Hyde Park, NY 11040
Tel: 516-695-0954
Fax: 516-326-0282
Web: www.rbfilms.com

Thats cool. Richards a good guy and posts here all the time.
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post #107 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 04:57 PM
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Well so far since I got my BD30 I've watched Hitman, Mr. Magorium's Blah Blah Blah and I haven't experienced a problem yet. I do have The Fly so I'll watch that one with caution. I have a BD30 and Onkyo 605.

My DVD, Blu-Ray and HD DVD Collection @ DVD Profiler
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post #108 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 06:37 PM
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Just tested the scene in The Golden Compass with the Denon 2500. Same loud pop. Actually seemed a bit louder even with the volume on my SSP at about -38. So that is three players so far that have done it with MA tracks in my system; 2 BD and 1 HD DVD.

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post #109 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 06:40 PM
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Is this bitstream DTS MA only?

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #110 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 06:51 PM
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So far, I don't have a player that will decode DTS-HD Master Audio internally so there is no way to test how it reacts in a player. But if you have a player send out the core via bitstream or have it output PCM (core again) it doesn't have this issue.

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post #111 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

So far, I don't have a player that will decode DTS-HD Master Audio internally ...

Does one exist yet?
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post #112 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluLover View Post

What the heck are you guys babbling about? I only use bitstream, and I use my Onkyo 705. I have seen Fantastic Four 4 times and absolutely no pop at all.

Are you guys sure that you have proper speakers and proper powered subs that can handle lossless audio?

My Onkyo sub used to pop because it was bottoming out, so I upgraded to a bigger badder sub; the Hsu VTF-3 MK3, and all has been beautiful since.

My equipment is:
Onkyo 705
Panny BD30
Subwoofer: Hsu VTF-3.3

ROFL, whats a "proper speaker that can handle lossless audio?"

A speaker is a speaker. If your sub was "bottoming out" you didn't have it setup correctly or it was turned up too loud, has nothing to do with lossless.
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post #113 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post

Does one exist yet?

Denon 3800.
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post #114 of 2238 Old 03-18-2008, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Just tested the scene in The Golden Compass with the Denon 2500. Same loud pop. Actually seemed a bit louder even with the volume on my SSP at about -38. So that is three players so far that have done it with MA tracks in my system; 2 BD and 1 HD DVD.

Thanks... that rules out the BD30. Any chance you can try it out on a different receiver? All but one has happened on an Onkyo receiver or pre/pro.
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post #115 of 2238 Old 03-19-2008, 02:09 AM
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Ok I found the problem, or I think i found it
Well the problem of the loud bang will happen only on Onkyos and Yamahas
Something to do with the DTS chip or something.
Well found different links but in german, and I dont know german.

I know that Yamaha has a Firmware to fix this problem, I don't know about Onkyo.

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2008/2008...e_DTS-HD.shtml
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post #116 of 2238 Old 03-19-2008, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Thanks... that rules out the BD30. Any chance you can try it out on a different receiver? All but one has happened on an Onkyo receiver or pre/pro.

Actually it been seen on a few Yamaha's and one Pio as well.
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post #117 of 2238 Old 03-19-2008, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little_donkey View Post

Ok I found the problem, or I think i found it
Well the problem of the loud bang will happen only on Onkyos and Yamahas
Something to do with the DTS chip or something.

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2008/2008...e_DTS-HD.shtml

then why does it happen on my pioneer 91-txh then?
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post #118 of 2238 Old 03-19-2008, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Just tested the scene in The Golden Compass with the Denon 2500. Same loud pop. Actually seemed a bit louder even with the volume on my SSP at about -38. So that is three players so far that have done it with MA tracks in my system; 2 BD and 1 HD DVD.


I did not think the Golden Compass was released yet?
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post #119 of 2238 Old 03-19-2008, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shabre View Post

I did not think the Golden Compass was released yet?

Kris Deering is a reviewer, so most likely it is a review copy.
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post #120 of 2238 Old 03-19-2008, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little_donkey View Post

Ok I found the problem, or I think i found it
Well the problem of the loud bang will happen only on Onkyos and Yamahas
Something to do with the DTS chip or something.
Well found different links but in german, and I dont know german.

I know that Yamaha has a Firmware to fix this problem, I don't know about Onkyo.

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2008/2008...e_DTS-HD.shtml

This has to be a disk problem because if it were the receivers mentioned (now 4 different models have posted on having this issue) then why don't we have it with all of the other movies out there with DTS HD MA? My point is that basic logic deduces it is indeed something within those particulary disk and possibly only with a certain production timeframe for those disk. Also the fact that this sound happens at the exact same spot for anyone who experiences it also points to the disk as the problem. It just seems way to unlikely that 4 different receiver's would all have the "Pop sound" at the exact same spot of a movie if it weren't the movie itself.
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