**WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed to Yamaha, Onkyo or Integra can damage speakers!! - Page 75 - AVS Forum

AVS Forum > Blu-ray & HD DVD > Blu-ray Players > **WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed to Yamaha, Onkyo or Integra can damage speakers!!

Blu-ray Players

jimwhite's Avatar jimwhite
12:32 PM Liked: 10
post #2221 of 2241
05-27-2011 | Posts: 5,372
Joined: Sep 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

It's most certainly a DTS problem. It's their decoding application.

The DSP only carries out the instructions. DTS wrote those instructions.

Are you sure? Funny that not ALL avr's were affected. And Onkyo fixed their problem with a software patch.
PeterTHX's Avatar PeterTHX
03:20 PM Liked: 45
post #2222 of 2241
05-27-2011 | Posts: 1,924
Joined: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

Are you sure? Funny that not ALL avr's were affected. And Onkyo fixed their problem with a software patch.

Yes I'm sure, Onkyo and Yamaha were the first out of the gate, and the first affected. DTS rewrote their TI DSP codec and Onkyo issued it as a DSP firmware update.

DTS also promised to look into their encoding method to minimize the spikes but it appears that certain titles still have the problem. Hence the joke among the HT community that "DTS" stands for Destroy The Speakers.
StevenC56's Avatar StevenC56
05:20 PM Liked: 31
post #2223 of 2241
05-27-2011 | Posts: 1,693
Joined: May 2006
Looks to me like DTS could care less about this. They have yet to even respond once with even an "it's not us-it's somebody else" to 5 emails I've sent in the last 2 weeks. If you have ever experienced this first hand, you would be leery of even playing a movie with a DTS MA soundtrack again for fear this might occur.
NovaKane's Avatar NovaKane
04:08 PM Liked: 10
post #2224 of 2241
05-28-2011 | Posts: 456
Joined: Jan 2007
I've recently experienced these loud pops through my Denon 3808 AVR with the movies Tangled and Burlesque. Never heard them before with numerous DTS-MA audio tracks running through my setup.

Pops aren't repeatable. I could play the films all the way through and not hear a thing, but heard them on a subsequent play. Strange.

At least there's some comfort that this thread has been revived. Good to know I'm not alone.
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau
04:28 PM Liked: 1029
post #2225 of 2241
05-28-2011 | Posts: 28,064
Joined: Jul 2004
The original, decoder firmware flaw leading to the original "bomb" had the characteristic that the explosions were repeatable at the same time code when decoded on the same hardware (although the decoder in different hardware might not have the problem on that disc, even though it had the problem on some other disc).

If your explosions are not-repeatable, then that suggests a different flaw.
--Bob
NovaKane's Avatar NovaKane
05:06 PM Liked: 10
post #2226 of 2241
05-28-2011 | Posts: 456
Joined: Jan 2007
Thanks for the clarification, Bob.
pcdoctor's Avatar pcdoctor
09:31 PM Liked: 12
post #2227 of 2241
05-28-2011 | Posts: 3,590
Joined: Jul 2000
I bought a br player a while ago and took it back. This thread makes me leery about even thinking about buying another br player or getting a new receiver. I'm sure Dolby is enjoying this. I used to love it when DVDs had DTS soundtracks. Oh yeah, has anyone experienced the "bomb" or "pop" on a Dolby True HD soundtrack?
JohnAV's Avatar JohnAV
09:50 PM Liked: 85
post #2228 of 2241
05-28-2011 | Posts: 6,541
Joined: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoctor View Post
I bought a br player a while ago and took it back. This thread makes me leery about even thinking about buying another br player or getting a new receiver. I'm sure Dolby is enjoying this. I used to love it when DVDs had DTS soundtracks. Oh yeah, has anyone experienced the "bomb" or "pop" on a Dolby True HD soundtrack?
Why? A large majority of BD content is using DTS-HD-MA, and up to now this was forgotten concern as it was a issue with earlier audio decoders against Yamaha, Integra, and Onkyo AVR's , since fixed with new FW and new hardware. Just because you see a couple of people discussing this problem doesn't make it the norm.

This doesn't occur on Dolby True HD tracks BTW.
PeterTHX's Avatar PeterTHX
01:46 AM Liked: 45
post #2229 of 2241
06-01-2011 | Posts: 1,924
Joined: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdoctor View Post

I bought a br player a while ago and took it back. This thread makes me leery about even thinking about buying another br player or getting a new receiver. I'm sure Dolby is enjoying this. I used to love it when DVDs had DTS soundtracks. Oh yeah, has anyone experienced the "bomb" or "pop" on a Dolby True HD soundtrack?

Actually it's the opposite: a few BD players needed firmware updates to because they would have Dolby TrueHD dropouts: the sound would cut out completely for a brief second here and there on some titles.
Brake_'s Avatar Brake_
10:03 PM Liked: 10
post #2230 of 2241
07-07-2011 | Posts: 43
Joined: Jan 2011
Hi Guys,

I have an Onkyo ts xr707 and a Panasonic BD60

Is there a certain firmware version that this issue is effecting? Or is it across the board across all firmware versions?

I have a couple of the Blu-rays on the first post (Master & commander and Room 1408) that I have not watched yet, thank goodness!

I will check my firmware version when I get home (Support guy said you hold "display" and press "Standy" to show firmware version)
asere's Avatar asere
09:57 AM Liked: 26
post #2231 of 2241
01-14-2014 | Posts: 957
Joined: Dec 2011
The POP sound is it while your watching a movie or only when you fast forward the Bluray disc?
Jon S's Avatar Jon S
10:48 AM Liked: 75
post #2232 of 2241
01-14-2014 | Posts: 2,855
Joined: Nov 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

The POP sound is it while your watching a movie or only when you fast forward the Bluray disc?

You know the previous post is over two years ago????
asere's Avatar asere
10:55 AM Liked: 26
post #2233 of 2241
01-14-2014 | Posts: 957
Joined: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

You know the previous post is over two years ago????

Yes, I just bought an 805 and hoped someone would answer.
Someone could possibly come back with answers.
Jon S's Avatar Jon S
11:11 AM Liked: 75
post #2234 of 2241
01-14-2014 | Posts: 2,855
Joined: Nov 1999
Onkyo firmware updates do not fix any of the DTS HD Master issues. They just fixed bugs in the programming of the receiver itself... You need to get the DSP updates to fix the DTS HD Master bomb issue. Note that there was two updates, one was about fives years ago and the other was about two years ago.

You need the most recent updates to fix the "bomb" issue. You should be able to get them from Onkyo. Also note that the updates are flashed thru the optical port on the receiver. You will need a CD player with optical outputs to flash the receiver. Most DVD and nearly all of the Blu-Ray players are NOT able to flash the DSPs. I had to use a dedicated CD player to flash my receiver. No other DVD player would work.

BTW, the DTS HD Master bomb is only apparent upon playing a disc...
asere's Avatar asere
11:19 AM Liked: 26
post #2235 of 2241
01-14-2014 | Posts: 957
Joined: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

Onkyo firmware updates do not fix any of the DTS HD Master issues. They just fixed bugs in the programming of the receiver itself... You need to get the DSP updates to fix the DTS HD Master bomb issue. Note that there was two updates, one was about fives years ago and the other was about two years ago.

You need the most recent updates to fix the "bomb" issue. You should be able to get them from Onkyo. Also note that the updates are flashed thru the optical port on the receiver. You will need a CD player with optical outputs to flash the receiver. Most DVD and nearly all of the Blu-Ray players are NOT able to flash the DSPs. I had to use a dedicated CD player to flash my receiver. No other DVD player would work.

BTW, the DTS HD Master bomb is only apparent upon playing a disc...

Thank you for the information.
I don't know what is going on with mine then. I notice the popping or static noise with DTS HD Master and TrueHD only at fast forward and once when I turned on the player without a disc.
Jon S's Avatar Jon S
05:22 PM Liked: 75
post #2236 of 2241
01-15-2014 | Posts: 2,855
Joined: Nov 1999
Dolby True HD never had an issue with sound AFAIK... The bomb would appear when playing back certain movies and a REALLY loud pop would appear from the speakers. So loud, it would blow out your tweeters if the volume is at reference levels. It occurs when the receivers decoder gets a signal from the disc that it did not recognize. Star Wars and Eat, Pray, Love were the two discs I know that had the issue... Someone told me that How to Train Your Dragon also exhibited the same issue but I could not verify it.

What you are describing does not sound like the same issue... It appears that possibly the muting circuit is not working right. Try and find out the firmware update on your receiver. if it is old, a new update may fix it...
asere's Avatar asere
06:56 AM Liked: 26
post #2237 of 2241
01-16-2014 | Posts: 957
Joined: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

Dolby True HD never had an issue with sound AFAIK... The bomb would appear when playing back certain movies and a REALLY loud pop would appear from the speakers. So loud, it would blow out your tweeters if the volume is at reference levels. It occurs when the receivers decoder gets a signal from the disc that it did not recognize. Star Wars and Eat, Pray, Love were the two discs I know that had the issue... Someone told me that How to Train Your Dragon also exhibited the same issue but I could not verify it.

What you are describing does not sound like the same issue... It appears that possibly the muting circuit is not working right. Try and find out the firmware update on your receiver. if it is old, a new update may fix it...

The problem is I cannot update the firmware because I have the original one installed and there is no way to do it other than having an Onkyo service center do it and there is none near me.
PeterTHX's Avatar PeterTHX
11:12 AM Liked: 45
post #2238 of 2241
01-16-2014 | Posts: 1,924
Joined: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

Dolby True HD never had an issue with sound AFAIK... The bomb would appear when playing back certain movies and a REALLY loud pop would appear from the speakers. So loud, it would blow out your tweeters if the volume is at reference levels. It occurs when the receivers decoder gets a signal from the disc that it did not recognize. Star Wars and Eat, Pray, Love were the two discs I know that had the issue... Someone told me that How to Train Your Dragon also exhibited the same issue but I could not verify it.

What you are describing does not sound like the same issue... It appears that possibly the muting circuit is not working right. Try and find out the firmware update on your receiver. if it is old, a new update may fix it...

How To Train Your Dragon is Dolby TrueHD, so it having the "DTS bomb" would be impossible.

Maybe they meant Eragon or Dragonheart...
conceptics's Avatar conceptics
07:14 AM Liked: 10
post #2239 of 2241
Today | Posts: 9
Joined: Dec 2009
Hello everyone!

I am reviving this topic, since I believe my receiver (Rotel RSP1570/RSP1572) may also be vulnerable to the same bug as discussed in this topic. Unfortunately, the links in the opening post to recordings demonstrating the clipping/crackling are no longer online - but I have made two recordings from two affected movies that I have encountered the issue with. Perhaps someone who had (or still has) this issue can confirm that the artefacts I am hearing and the one that are being discussed in this topic are one and the same?

- Edge of Tomorrow / EU Release - German DTS-HD MA track @ 00:34:32 (example AAC recording at 29 seconds)
- The Equalizer / US Release - English DTS-HD MA track @ 00:31:37 (example AAC recording at 18 seconds)

I am still trying to track down some of the movies that are being refered to in the opening post - (e.g. Master and Commander & Chronos) - but so far, I can only also confirm that the movie Tron: Legacy produces the same artefacts (which is also voiced as one of the movies causing these artefacts in this topic).

Thanks!
jasonvr's Avatar jasonvr
09:44 AM Liked: 13
post #2240 of 2241
Today | Posts: 769
Joined: Oct 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptics View Post
Hello everyone!

I am reviving this topic, since I believe my receiver (Rotel RSP1570/RSP1572) may also be vulnerable to the same bug as discussed in this topic. Unfortunately, the links in the opening post to recordings demonstrating the clipping/crackling are no longer online - but I have made two recordings from two affected movies that I have encountered the issue with. Perhaps someone who had (or still has) this issue can confirm that the artefacts I am hearing and the one that are being discussed in this topic are one and the same?

- Edge of Tomorrow / EU Release - German DTS-HD MA track @ 00:34:32 (example AAC recording at 29 seconds)
- The Equalizer / US Release - English DTS-HD MA track @ 00:31:37 (example AAC recording at 18 seconds)

I am still trying to track down some of the movies that are being refered to in the opening post - (e.g. Master and Commander & Chronos) - but so far, I can only also confirm that the movie Tron: Legacy produces the same artefacts (which is also voiced as one of the movies causing these artefacts in this topic).

Thanks!
As someone who experienced the DTS-MA bomb on AVP:R, that is not the bomb based on what I can hear in your recordings. It will scare the bejeezus out of you and threaten menacingly to destroy your speakers. It is a very sudden, very loud, definitive POP and then it is gone.
conceptics's Avatar conceptics
06:31 PM Liked: 10
post #2241 of 2241
Today | Posts: 9
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Thanks jasonvr! This is very helpful.

As i am experiencing similar artefacts within the same movies at the same timestamp, and like the bitstream bomb, only within DTS-HD MA streams - could it perhaps be that the source of the error is the same, but the resulting sound-error that is being produced is different? As in... On my receiver, it is more of a audible crackling where as on your (and other Yamaha/Onkyo affected systems) system, it resulted in a loud bang?
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