PS3 Firmware 2.3x - Master Thread [FIRMWARE TALK ONLY PLEASE] - Page 24 - AVS Forum
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post #691 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 01:03 AM
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wow, so this cant even be fixed with a firmware? thats f'd up.

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post #692 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 01:17 AM
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the only thing i see different in the setup is dts
shounldnt it say dts-ma or hd?
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post #693 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny_k_at_DTS View Post

As to the next logical question, I’ll apologize in advance and say that it is not my place to comment on future PS3 firmware updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

wow, so this cant even be fixed with a firmware? thats f'd up.

He didn't say it could not be fixed via firmware. He is saying he cannot speak for SONY on the subject since he works for DTS. Only SONY will answer this. I believe they can and will fix it sooner or later. Probably have to just code a check for the flag then redirect to the proper channels. I am no firmware writer, but this sounds really easy. What do you think FilmMixer?

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post #694 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 01:19 AM
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This will be fixed by sony... Since he works for DTS he cannot comment on it...
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post #695 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny_k_at_DTS View Post

The DTS-HD codec is very flexible and provides a unique way of telling the decoder how to downmix to 5.1, specific to the 7.1 layout used when mixing took place. The goal is to make sure the 5.1 listening experience stays true to the original 7.1 mix.

That's honestly a strange (near marketing-esque) comment. I don't think the people here with 7.1 configs, that are complaining, care about your "goal" to "make sure the 5.1 listening experience stays true to the original 7.1 mix." They want all channels passed to their 7.1 receiver.

Hughmc, I wouldn't make any assumptions on what Sony or DTS can or can't fix/improve with the PS3.

ronny_k_at_DTS, if you can, please post something with a little more technical detail why the DTS-HD MA decoder in the PS3 is currently designed this way. I can honestly see no reason why the decoder doesn't pass the 7.1 content "as is" over 7.1 PCM, no matter what mapping it has.
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post #696 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 01:24 AM
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Please be a little more respectful and dont put words in my mouth.

1. I did not say never (think real hard about how the PS3 works). I said - I can not comment.
2. Only a handful of 7.1 titles decode and output as 5.1 lossless DTS-HD MA on the PS3.
3. All other 7.1 titles have no issues decoding 7.1 lossless DTS-HD MA on the PS3.

I'm just trying to help ;-)
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post #697 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 01:44 AM
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Im sorry ronny, its just that i want the best experience with DTS-HD. i was so happy when i heard it was comming to the ps3, and now this happens. sony could of at least said something about it to us,but we had to find out for our self.

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post #698 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 01:45 AM
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Would you people with 7.1 setups and those "special" NL titles try to uncheck all audio outputs except 7.1 in your PS3 audio settings and try the movie out and report back your results including your receiver? Maybe the PS3 will be forced to properly decode 7.1 then.

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post #699 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

Would you people with 7.1 setups and those "special" NL titles try to uncheck all audio outputs except 7.1 in your PS3 audio settings and try the movie out and report back your results including your receiver? Maybe the PS3 will be forced to properly decode 7.1 then.

Great Idea! I don't know if it will work but this is how I make Call of Duty output in 1080p (uncheck 720p & 1080i). It's worth a shot.
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post #700 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

Would you people with 7.1 setups and those "special" NL titles try to uncheck all audio outputs except 7.1 in your PS3 audio settings and try the movie out and report back your results including your receiver? Maybe the PS3 will be forced to properly decode 7.1 then.

Yes, that work-around definitely works as reported earlier in the thread. I just tried it again, and each of the "afflicted" titles I own (Shoot 'Em Up - DTS MA; Rush Hour 3 - DTS MA; and The Condemned - DTS HR) will derive all 8 channels when each of the 5.1 LPCM items in the PS3's HDMI Audio Menu are unchecked. Of course, the pain in the butt will be remembering to go into the menus and re-selecting them again in time for the next viewing of a non-affected MA 7.1 title. Inconvenient, to say the least. But hey, it'll do in the interim.

P.S., The Condemned is from Lionsgate, so the problem doesn't manifest exclusively on New Line titles.

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post #701 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 02:23 AM
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^^ Good call on forcing 7.1. I wonder if that will be an update that is forcing 7.1?
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post #702 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny_k_at_DTS View Post

Please be a little more respectful and dont put words in my mouth.

1. I did not say never (think real hard about how the PS3 works). I said - I can not comment.
2. Only a handful of 7.1 titles decode and output as 5.1 lossless DTS-HD MA on the PS3.
3. All other 7.1 titles have no issues decoding 7.1 lossless DTS-HD MA on the PS3.

I'm just trying to help ;-)

I wasn't being critical of you. I don't know you. I apologize if I came across that way.

I was projecting some frustrations some members had in this and the Blu Ray forum about the 7.1 issue and that was wrong.

I am not complaining about DTS MA I enjoy and welcome it.

I just reread my post # 695. I left out a very important word in the first sentence, the word not after he is. I edited it.

I am a strong supporter of what Sony has done with the PS3 so far with updates and never doubted a FW update might be able to fix it.
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post #703 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

I wasn't being critical of you. I don't know you. I apologize if I came across that way.

I was projecting some frustrations some members had in this and the Blu Ray forum about the 7.1 issue and that was wrong.

I am not complaining about DTS MA I enjoy and welcome it.

I just reread my post # 695. I left out a very important word in the first sentence, the word not after he is. I edited it.

I am a strong supporter of what Sony has done with the PS3 so far with updates and never doubted a FW update might be able to fix it.

For what it's worth, Hugh, I don't think ronny_k was referring to you, as your reply was very thoughtful despite the typo. Looks like it was directed at posts #694 and #700... and understandably so.

Appreciate the contribution, ronny... Every little bit helps toward understanding what's going on with this hybrid godsend/fiasco.

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post #704 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

Would you people with 7.1 setups and those "special" NL titles try to uncheck all audio outputs except 7.1 in your PS3 audio settings and try the movie out and report back your results including your receiver? Maybe the PS3 will be forced to properly decode 7.1 then.



I tried it.

Display on my Denon 4308 says "Multi CH IN 7.1" while playing Rush Hour 3.


But I still get no sound from the back surrounds
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post #705 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny_k_at_DTS View Post

Please be a little more respectful and dont put words in my mouth.

1. I did not say never (think real hard about how the PS3 works). I said - I can not comment.
2. Only a handful of 7.1 titles decode and output as 5.1 lossless DTS-HD MA on the PS3.
3. All other 7.1 titles have no issues decoding 7.1 lossless DTS-HD MA on the PS3.

I'm just trying to help ;-)

Thank you, Ronny. So, DTS is aware of these titles and how they behave.
And if you kids can' t read between the lines then...you can't read.


Am I wrong, or are people looking at rear-surrounds as the main benefit of MA? Is this what people were longing and waiting for? As opposed to its lossless nature, that is.

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post #706 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 05:38 AM
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Am I wrong, or are people looking at rear-surrounds as the main benefit of MA? Is this what people were longing and waiting for? As opposed to its lossless nature, that is.

That's right. Without them the Campaign for Moorish Dignity will never get off the ground.
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post #707 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 05:46 AM
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Unite!


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post #708 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakashizuma View Post

I have compared the PCM output versus bitstream for DD/DTS and they sound the same after level matching. I put my receiver to Pure Direct so no necessary processing can happen.


I am not sure what some of the issues are, but to me the LPCM sounds great on StarWars III, perhaps just a tad bit louder than the bitsteram option.

I do also have the PS3 volume +2
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post #709 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Trapdoresoth View Post

Ummm...crap.

How could Sony not have known this? Could it be as simple as, "hey look, the PS3 says it's 7.1 so it must be working! Those silent rears must just be part of this film's sound design! Ok, release the patch!"

What the hell, Sony?

AGREE!
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post #710 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 07:21 AM
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^^ Well they could have held off forever until they tested every single blu-ray and DVD to make sure it worked in every case... or they could release it in a reasonable amount of time with a reasonable amount of testing. It is only in the case of some specific 7.1 titles that it drops two of the surround channels. It's not like the PS3 doesn't do 7.1 HD:MA at all!

If we could all stop the "sky is falling" posts about this problem. It seems to be fairly well understood at this point and will either be limited to certain titles or fixed with another firmware update.
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post #711 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 07:28 AM
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Agree!

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post #712 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 07:34 AM
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The rear surrounds on a couple movies seem to be ruining the whole thing for some people.
I think a little perspective is in order.

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post #713 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LicenseToKill View Post

Either your PS3 is defective, or your ears/brain simply prefer the lossy sound quality of DD/DTS. Nothing wrong with that - a lot of people 'prefer' the sound from vinyl LPs over CDs.

To automatically blame the PS3's decoding algorithms is ignorant and illogical.

I just explained how to see the difference, and it is definately there, the sound just isn't as rich and the clarity isn't as good when using PCM over bistream, my receiver simply is better at decoding than the PS3. Unfortunately I don't have the option to send the signal to the receiver for it to decode, so I'll have to make do with Linear PCM DTS-HDMA
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post #714 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

The rear surrounds on a couple movies seem to be ruining the whole thing for some people.
I think a little perspective is in order.

Is there a list of Titles that do work properly (7.1)

and another list for Titles that don't
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post #715 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 07:41 AM
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To automatically blame the PS3's decoding algorithms is ignorant and illogical.

Only ignorant.
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post #716 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectra57 View Post

Is there a list of Titles that do work properly (7.1)

and another list for Titles that don't

That'd be illustrative, I see the same couple mentioned.

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post #717 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 07:55 AM
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So can anyone confirm that for the titles that show up as 5.1 on the AVR, if you uncheck all audio output options except 7.1 does this actually produce sound out of the rears, or just make the receiver show 7.1 with silent rears?
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post #718 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwhzz35 View Post

it's interesting Shabre'...you get louder sound with PCM than bitstream DD.
Anyone else experience this too? For me...PCM is way lower volume..flatter sound. Haven't tried any DTSHD movies yet but...is this normal??

Agreed, anyone who has heard DTS-HDMA bitstreamed vs PCM would agree that the bitstream just sounds better, yes it's louder but thats just not it, the clarity is better and the richness also, again it was the same thing when I selected PCM while watching a Dolby Digital movie when I switched over to bitstream the sound was better immediately. If they are both to be theoredically the same then why would one be louder/better than the other, it's supposed to be the same information. Except one copy is in an open envelope and one is in a briefcase( metorphorically speaking).
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post #719 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

The rear surrounds on a couple movies seem to be ruining the whole thing for some people.
I think a little perspective is in order.

I agree with this 100%. If a month ago someone told me we would get ANY DTS MA before the new Sony players were out this summer, I would have said they were on glue. Now we have it and it works perfectly on 90%+ of the discs out there. In some cases, we are losing the rear two channels and everyone is saying Sony sucks. Um, did Sony ever promise DTS MA at all? No. Has Sony done an incredible job upgrading the AV side of the PS3? Yep. So, why don't you cut them just a little bit of slack.

I imagine Sony will upgrade the playback in an upcoming firmware. My guess is getting DTS MA on the PS3 is not as easy as people thing and that's why they are doing it in pieces (hence the 'limited') tag.

Chris
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post #720 of 1585 Old 04-16-2008, 08:10 AM
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Geronimo.USMC, Good call on unselecting the 5.1 LCPM to force the 7.1 LPCM. I am going to try it tonight.
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