Xbox 360 with built-in blu-ray coming soon! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 115 Old 05-05-2008, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTYoung View Post

I own both the 360 and PS3 and there are still very few "great" games for the PS3 and even most of those are not exclusive to the PS3.

In your opinion. IMO I call BS and there are many good games for the PS3 already. More than enough that a reasonable person who has an average busy life won't have the time to play them all. How many can one really play on any system. How many are there for the 360 that some people will never play because they are too numerous and redundant. How many FPS's can one play that are really good and aren't very similar. I was going to say take that opinion over to the PS forum on AVS and see what responses you get, but then again I would suggest not to keep the peace and avoid suspensions.
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post #62 of 115 Old 05-06-2008, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTYoung View Post

I own both the 360 and PS3 and there are still very few "great" games for the PS3 and even most of those are not exclusive to the PS3.

I really hate to get into this "console war" arguments... Too often people blindly defend one or the other.

I have Both PS3 and 360 and both are excellent gaming consoles. Personally for me I have WAY more games for the 360 and when it comes to games available for both...9/10 I go with the 360 version. No-one can deny the large advantage that 360 had in games but that advantage is dwindling. I recently read that GTA4 sales for the 360 is like 2-1 over the PS3. Who knows if thats true or just some fancy skewing of sales figures by MS. However same article said that since the release of GTA4 there has been a large increase in PS3 console sales.

Several friends and co-workers of mine feel the same. We all pretty much use our PS3 for BR and media.

This time next year it might be a different story. But as it stands now...my gaming platform of choice is still my 360.
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post #63 of 115 Old 05-06-2008, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

In your opinion. IMO I call BS and there are many good games for the PS3 already. More than enough that a reasonable person who has an average busy life won't have the time to play them all. How many can one really play on any system. How many are there for the 360 that some people will never play because they are too numerous and redundant. How many FPS's can one play that are really good and aren't very similar. I was going to say take that opinion over to the PS forum on AVS and see what responses you get, but then again I would suggest not to keep the peace and avoid suspensions.

While I still think the 360 has better games and most multi-platform games are as good or even better on the 360....The 360 has a large portion of games available that are utter garbage.

By the same token...it seems..at least to me that PS3 has less crap games.

Quantity -vs- Quality.

But nothing beats Wii for the number of garbage/crap titles available =P
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post #64 of 115 Old 05-06-2008, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

While I still think the 360 has better games and most multi-platform games are as good or even better on the 360....The 360 has a large portion of games available that are utter garbage.

By the same token...it seems..at least to me that PS3 has less crap games.

Quantity -vs- Quality.

But nothing beats Wii for the number of garbage/crap titles available =P

I found this on the net a while back.

http://gamefunk.net/?p=57

Interesting piece about shovelware, even if it isn't entirely unbiased.

On this whole other debate, I would like to point out that "best games" is most certainly a personal preference. The PS3 has a host of good games. Among my favorites are Armored Core, Folk Lore, Devil May Cry, Rockband, Ratchet and Clank, and Flow. Of those, only 3 are exclusives. However - I can play all of them on the PS3. The arguments over minutia centered around which version is "better" don't phase me either. I have had no problem playing any of those games. I currently own about 27 for the PS3, and with the releases this year will end up owning more.

On the flipside, I will eventually own all 3 next gen consoles. I've always played games, not favorites. The PS3 was the fist I purchases soley because it filled two purposes in my entertainment rack.
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post #65 of 115 Old 05-07-2008, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

In your opinion. IMO I call BS and there are many good games for the PS3 already. More than enough that a reasonable person who has an average busy life won't have the time to play them all. How many can one really play on any system. How many are there for the 360 that some people will never play because they are too numerous and redundant. How many FPS's can one play that are really good and aren't very similar. I was going to say take that opinion over to the PS forum on AVS and see what responses you get, but then again I would suggest not to keep the peace and avoid suspensions.

Spoken like a true PS3 fanboi. Do you even own a 360 or have you prejudged it to be worthless.

You act like the only thing available to play are FPS games, when in fact that is nowhere near what the actual situation is. There are other genres of games out there and the selection of very good or great titles exclusive to the PS3 is still slim.

Format Neutral
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post #66 of 115 Old 05-07-2008, 07:22 PM
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Hey, some of us are interested in having HD video disc capability in their Xbox 360, but since HD-DVD is now dead, we find ourselves in what was up to this point the PS3 "side of town". Let's try to integrate more smoothly and cut the PS3 crowd some slack.

Personally, I think comparing game catalogs is pretty irrelevant anyway. I don't own either console yet, and I don't own a Blu-ray player. I've been figuring I would have to buy a PS3 to play Blu-rays, and I would have to buy a 360 to play Halo 3. It doesn't matter how many quality titles one system or the other has -- I just want to play what I want to play and it would be nice to just get one box and save $400.
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post #67 of 115 Old 05-14-2008, 10:43 PM
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So now Microsoft says there will be no new XBox 360 coming out in 2009, thus confirming that it will be coming out in 2008.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/13/m...-360s-in-2009/
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post #68 of 115 Old 05-19-2008, 09:05 PM
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http://www.homemediamagazine.com/new...ticle_id=12783
Quote:


SAN FRANCISCO — Microsoft has nothing in development for any type of Blu-ray Disc add-on for the Xbox 360, said Microsoft Game Studios head Shane Kim, head of Microsoft Games Studios, during a roundtable at the company’s 360 Spring.

Microsoft had backed competing high-def format HD DVD with an add-on drive, which has since been discontinued. The internal drive of Xbox 360 uses a standard DVD format.

“I know Blu-ray provides some visual boost for people who want a physical HD format, but we’re not seeing that format taking off, in general,” Kim said. “The DVD format is still doing well. Eventually, the price of Blu-ray players will come down to $150 and the value proposition of a $300 or $400 PlayStation 3 as a game console and movie player will be impacted.”

Interesting comment considering it will also impact Xbox 360. "What, do I have to pay $300 for a DVD console?"
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post #69 of 115 Old 05-19-2008, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dpmcgarry View Post

Good for you...my 360 cost $300 and I played those games when they came out.

And I bet you played them on a screen bigger than 20 inches.
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post #70 of 115 Old 05-19-2008, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dpmcgarry View Post

Ok that's this year...I was considering the last 3. A quick search on Amazon reveals the 360 has 400+ games, while the PS3 only has 200+. We probably shouldn't get too far off topic though...

And how many of those 200+ PS3 games are just ports from the 360?
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post #71 of 115 Old 05-20-2008, 08:37 AM
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Well, it is interseting that Kim denyed a Blu add on, but did not deny a Blu built in. Why not just add those few words to be clear?

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post #72 of 115 Old 05-20-2008, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTYoung View Post

Spoken like a true PS3 fanboi. Do you even own a 360 or have you prejudged it to be worthless.

You act like the only thing available to play are FPS games, when in fact that is nowhere near what the actual situation is. There are other genres of games out there and the selection of very good or great titles exclusive to the PS3 is still slim.


BS. No they aren't. And the point about the 360 was NOT to slam the console, but to talk about available games and time to play them. Read my post again. I have had a 360 and no longer do. I don't talk about it nor do I go out of my way to discuss it faults. I openly admit I am a"fanboy" of the PS3, but I am not in a "circle" of denial.
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post #73 of 115 Old 05-23-2008, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee L View Post

Well, it is interseting that Kim denyed a Blu add on, but did not deny a Blu built in. Why not just add those few words to be clear?

I could see a built in at some point in the future when/if BD is wildly successful. Right now we are no where near that scenario. Give it 4-5 years and see how BD does, maybe then the XBOX 720 will come out with a built in BD drive. Until then what is the point? It will kill the slim margin they have on the console and not increase sales in a significant way. Besides with the Xbox marketplace they are actually making money on content and driving an alternate delivery mechanism.

Also OP should change the title to
Microsoft repeatedly states that Xbox 360 will not get Blu-ray drive, PS3/Sony/BD fanbois refuse to give up on rumor-mongering
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post #74 of 115 Old 05-23-2008, 07:47 PM
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I'm sticking with my previous assessment.
1) As mentioned, Kim's denial is specifically about an add-on
2) The Chinese news stories specifically referred to the entire unit, not an add-on
3) A revised unit with a 45nm GPU is legitimately reported to be coming out later this year, and no one is denying it.
4) PS3s bought by Xbox360 owners for the purpose of playing Blu-ray present a real opportunity for game sale dollars lost to the PS3.
5) Margin-schmargin -- consoles aren't meant to be sold for a profit.

If I were Microsoft and I was revising the unit anyway, the Blu-ray drive would be a no-brainer. It seems a lot smarter than selling me a 360 at zero profit, having me buy a PS3 for Blu-ray, and then end up spending half of my game budget buying PS3 titles. And it's not like I'm going to buy that new Magnavox Blu-ray player for $300 when I'm a gamer and the PS3 is a better Blu-ray player for only $100 more (deals aside).
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post #75 of 115 Old 05-23-2008, 09:37 PM
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Xbox 720 will have either a BD drive or if reasonable at the time a massive flash drive for downloads or both.
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post #76 of 115 Old 05-24-2008, 08:27 AM
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One thing to think about with the MS denials about this - if they did admit one was coming out, would they immediately hurt sales of the existing console with people waiting for the new version? Seems to me that unless they are going to a new generation where they'd have to let the gaming developers have time to ramp up, they'd want to keep this as quiet as possible.
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post #77 of 115 Old 05-24-2008, 09:43 AM
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I think that M$ always likes to have a premium 360 to sell at a high profit. This Christmas, you'll see the Elite drop down to $250, the core down to $200, and then a BD-enabled Xbox come in at $300 or $350.

It isn't the size of the disk that counts, but how you use it.

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post #78 of 115 Old 05-25-2008, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafaelSmith View Post

I recently read that GTA4 sales for the 360 is like 2-1 over the PS3. Who knows if thats true or just some fancy skewing of sales figures by MS. However same article said that since the release of GTA4 there has been a large increase in PS3 console sales.

Several friends and co-workers of mine feel the same. We all pretty much use our PS3 for BR and media.

This time next year it might be a different story. But as it stands now...my gaming platform of choice is still my 360.

Appears to be true re. sales on 360 vs. PS3 (well, 1.85:1), expected I suppose given the installed base numbers...

April 2008 sales data:

1. GTA IV - Xbox 360 - 1.85 million*
2. Mario Kart Wii - Wii - 1.12 million
3. GTA IV - PS3 - 1.00 million*
4. Wii Play w/ remote - Wii - 360K
5. Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Wii - 326K
6. Gran Turismo 5: Prologue - PS3 - 224K
7. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness - DS - 202K
8. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time - DS - 202K
9. Guitar Hero III - Wii - 152K
10. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare - Xbox 360 - 141K*


Like a lot of folks here on AVS I use my PS3 for movies only, XBOX 360 for all games. Most PS3 owners probably bought for games primarily though I'd expect.

Greg


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post #79 of 115 Old 05-26-2008, 12:13 PM
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Hi,

360 and HD DVD owner here looking to get into BR with PS3.
How does the Uncompressed PCM tracks play via optical?
Yamaha Z9 is not HDMI equipped.

Thanks

Serving IMHD, IMConnect, FAVIA
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post #80 of 115 Old 05-27-2008, 03:06 AM
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well uncompressed pcm over optical would be limited to stereo. For surround sound you'd be getting 1.5mbps dts or similar i'm guessing.
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post #81 of 115 Old 05-27-2008, 03:37 AM
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Just a thought, from a non-gamer. I have a PS3 purely for BDs, BTW.

It appears that the 360 got a pretty massive head start on the new Playstation by releasing early. It also seems the PS3 got off to a relatively slow start compared to what some were expecting. But then it also seems the PS3 is picking up pace quite rapidly.

Would MS not possibly be looking to consolidate their position right now? One way of doing this would be to release their next generation console - only to make it half a step forward.

The new console would have a built-in BD drive, and be generally more powerful than the old 360. It could be 100% backwards compatible with the old 360's games, and any new games could come out in both formats.

The new 360 would be an excellent alternative to the PS3 - having had time to learn from the mistakes of both the Sony and MS consoles.

At the moment, whilst the 360 is in front of the PS3, I think the Sony model appears to be catching up quickly. Whatever the truth in these rumours, I just can't see MS resting on the laurels of the 360 for long, and within a year it could very easily become yesterday's papers.

If you were MS and preparing for a quick follow-up next gen console to succeeed the 360, would you be putting a DVD drive in it or a BD drive?

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post #82 of 115 Old 05-27-2008, 08:16 AM
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The 360 doesn't have the audio capabilities to do Blu Ray properly so we won't see a Blu Ray drive in a 360 until the Xbox 720.

They are not going to do an audio hardware upgrade at this stage in time just to support Blu-Ray, especially with the current Blu Ray adoption rate as low as it is.

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post #83 of 115 Old 05-27-2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Flowerday View Post

The 360 doesn't have the audio capabilities to do Blu Ray properly so we won't see a Blu Ray drive in a 360 until the Xbox 720.

They are not going to do an audio hardware upgrade at this stage in time just to support Blu-Ray, especially with the current Blu Ray adoption rate as low as it is.

.02

So just how significant would this audio upgrade be, relative to a situation where they are already doing a mid-life redesign on the console? It's not like they'd have to do decoding and provide analog outs -- the PS3 doesn't. Just getting the bitstream out through HDMI or to an RCA or TOSLINK connector doesn't strike me as being prohibitive.
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post #84 of 115 Old 05-27-2008, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinschmidt57 View Post

So just how significant would this audio upgrade be, relative to a situation where they are already doing a mid-life redesign on the console? It's not like they'd have to do decoding and provide analog outs -- the PS3 doesn't. Just getting the bitstream out through HDMI or to an RCA or TOSLINK connector doesn't strike me as being prohibitive.

From what I understand the current audio subsystem can't handle the throughput of uncompressed or compressed lossless audio formats. Plus 7.1 support would have to be added. Nothing to do with analog.

Why spend money on R&D, and upgraded audio system when you continue making money with the current design? Is the ROI going to be large enough to warrant the changes? Blu Ray software is still way to expensive for it to take off. A more expensive blu ray capable 360 isn't going to help that fact along or will it increase blu ray adoption.

Couple other points: How much is it going to take to get the blu ray player software portion running on the 360? Full 2.0 support w/Blu Ray Java? How much more does it complicate the dashboard software being able to handle 2 different hardware configurations?

I stand by my opinion that there is no economical reason for Microsoft to do it!

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post #85 of 115 Old 05-27-2008, 06:19 PM
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I was hopeful for a BR add-on for my X-box. I find an add-on more useful because I can take it anywhere, use it with a PC, etc. However, I've recently read that BR isn't taking off at all even though it has won the format war. MS expects to see BR drives at $150 so people will buy those instead of buying PS3s or X-Boxes because of BR support. Additionally, MS is pushing digital media and is years ahead with its X-Box and Windows LIVE service.


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post #86 of 115 Old 05-28-2008, 04:22 AM
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Well who knows if there is any validity to these rumors. If MS does add blu ray capability to the 360 then good for them. Peoples taste or needs change over the years. The 360 is almost 3 years old and when it came out HD was nowhere near what it is today. It was a gaming machine thats all. That is not enough these days. Having an all inclusive setup is what people are looking for. More bang for the buck. Right now the PS3 is poised for that. We can debate infinitely about exclusive games, media extension, etc etc but bottom line is the PS3 is where it is at. Do you need blu ray to play games? No, and that worked earlier for MS. But you do need it now if you want to watch movies in HD with the best quality. I purchased the PS3 minutes after the Warner announcement and HD DVD's demise. I bought the PS3 mainly for blu ray playback and it has been stellar.

So if MS comes out with blu ray in the 360 then that is fine. It is yet another option for the consumer. It doesn't need to support all the audio. It just needs to play the movies. On this forum that is a big issue but outside of it most people will be happy with the movie playback alone. Just a year ago I could care less about audio support, now it is integral to me. Lets face it blu ray may be too technically advanced for the most part. I still have to argue with people that HD cable is nowhere near blu ray but to them it is. Not only does blu ray have superior picture quality but lossless sound too. I mean the Wii doesn't offer any of these things and look at the milestones it has achieved. I hope that MS gets blu ray so more people will buy this stuff so I don't have to keep paying $25 a disc. And if they don't then oh well. I got my PS3, my 360 and my Wii either way. For the record I was an ardent HD DVD supporter because it was cheaper for me to buy the add on initially and that $99 Walmart special A2. But there could be only one and it was blu ray, so they better get some players out there because I don't want it to be 2nd generation laser disc lol.

Cheers
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post #87 of 115 Old 06-13-2008, 09:53 AM
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PS3 sales exceeded 360 sales in May, and it may be a continuing trend, if MS doesn't do something about it, oh, like say introducing some new hardware. This article even suggests lower prices may come soon for both consoles, but that part is more doubtful to me.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...10916&Itemid=2
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post #88 of 115 Old 06-13-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinschmidt57 View Post

PS3 sales exceeded 360 sales in May, and it may be a continuing trend, if MS doesn't do something about it, oh, like say introducing some new hardware. This article even suggests lower prices may come soon for both consoles, but that part is more doubtful to me.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...10916&Itemid=2

PS3 sales exceeded 360's by 20,000 units in May. At that rate of discrepency, it will take Sony over 25 years to catch up with 360's installed base. I don't think Microsoft is too worried at this point!
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post #89 of 115 Old 06-13-2008, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

PS3 sales exceeded 360's by 20,000 units in May. At that rate of discrepency, it will take Sony over 25 years to catch up with 360's installed base. I don't think Microsoft is too worried at this point!

I have have all three consoles so I not a fanboy, but here are the facts.

Since the introduction of the PS3 and Wii in November 2006 (if nexgenwars.com is accurate) sales of the three consoles are about as follows

360 - 11,000,000
PS3 - 10,000,000
Wii - 21,700,000

The Wii will never play bluray, but neither will the 360. The 360 and the PS3 are selling at about the same pace. Since this has turned into a game console discussion, it appears the Wii is winning that war.

As for the 360's installed base, not sure you can count the machines in that have burnt up and are in a landfill/recycling center or been sent back to MS. The industry accepted failure rate number for the 360 is around 20% so there is only about 13,500,000 working 360s out there. The industry accepted - not rumours - of the PS3 and the Wii are around 1%.

MS either needs to count on people buying HD content from their marketplace on the 360 or they need a Bluray console to compete in that market. It is that simple. As games get more complex, I would have to guess going to Bluray disc makes more sense that downloading content.
XBOX 1080 in the future maybe???

No company tells you when the next best thing is coming out if it is within a close time frame of coming out. That will always stifle sales of the current product - unless they lower the price of the current offerings.
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post #90 of 115 Old 06-13-2008, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

PS3 sales exceeded 360's by 20,000 units in May. At that rate of discrepency, it will take Sony over 25 years to catch up with 360's installed base. I don't think Microsoft is too worried at this point!

Well you are talking North America only. If you factor in Worldwide sales the PS3 should pass the 360 this year or early next year.

And the 360's lead is not that much. As we have seen with the Wii, once a console starts to gain momentum, a few million consoles are not that big of a lead.
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