Xbox 360 with built-in blu-ray coming soon! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 115 Old 06-13-2008, 06:20 PM
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Who'd even buy a 360 today? It's old and a new PS3 like model will be coming soon. Not sure if a BD 360 add on is appealing to anyone at this point. It'll likely be a POS like the HD DVD piece was....

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #92 of 115 Old 06-14-2008, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Who'd even buy a 360 today? It's old and a new PS3 like model will be coming soon. Not sure if a BD 360 add on is appealing to anyone at this point. It'll likely be a POS like the HD DVD piece was....

I want a inexpensive BR player. An add-on would allow me to use it with both of my x-boxes and presumably my PC.

Why would I purchase a PS3 at all? As a BR player? Sorry, but no infrared support means I can't put it into a cabinet. I'm not going to argue console vs. console since this isn't the place. But needless to say, many of us with existing X-Boxes like the idea of an inexpensive add-on. Otherwise, I'll wait for a inexpensive standalone player.
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post #93 of 115 Old 06-15-2008, 02:47 AM
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Inexpensive add-on = inexpensive BD pc drive = happy htpc camper.
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post #94 of 115 Old 06-15-2008, 02:21 PM
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I have seen BR PIONEER DRIVe and others under $150
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post #95 of 115 Old 06-15-2008, 07:00 PM
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Does this one comes with falcon chip

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Conso...0J8TQGXDH0YZ5M
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post #96 of 115 Old 06-15-2008, 07:41 PM
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The new (fresh stock) ones all have the newer 65nm "Falcon" CPU, but this summer they are expected to release newer hardware where the GPU is also improved. I would say it's worth waiting for if you can. And of course this thread is based on various rumors that a Blu-ray drive will be included too, but that is not something to bank on.
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post #97 of 115 Old 06-15-2008, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinschmidt57 View Post

The new (fresh stock) ones all have the newer 65nm "Falcon" CPU, but this summer they are expected to release newer hardware where the GPU is also improved. I would say it's worth waiting for if you can. And of course this thread is based on various rumors that a Blu-ray drive will be included too, but that is not something to bank on.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/a...ext-xbox-360s/

From Feb 15.

This would probably count as a rumor but "Jasper" is the forthcoming 360 with a 65nm cpu and gpu and "Valhalla" combines both into the same chip.

Perhaps one of these would include a blu-ray drive too but Microsoft denies they are putting a blu drive in any 360.

"We did not have business relations with that company, Fuh Yuan."
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post #98 of 115 Old 06-16-2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PikachuManZzZ View Post

That's what I'm thinking as well. It seems inevitable to me that all of these consoles are going to have a redesign somewhere along the line, in order to keep sales momentum up and possibly drive down costs. Think the PS1 --> PSOne redesign, or the PS2 --> slimline release. I don't think there's a question as to if the 360 will see a similar redesign, but the question is when.

Note that we are already 3 years into the 360's lifetime (out of a usual console cycle of 4 years). The time for them to make some new SKUs is getting closer (and I'm not talking about "silent" additions like HDMI on the premiums).

So, anyway, let me look more onto the feasibility of adding blu-ray:

It's cheap (relatively). Much of the cost of blu-ray players comes in with the processing demands, not the drive itself. Indeed, Lite-on (the company allegedly manufacturing these drives for Microsoft) have internal drives that retail for $129. The cost-to-produce (excluding markup, distribution, support, packaging costs, etc) would be significantly lower, especially if it's stripped down to a barebones OEM for a console release.

Here's the link here in anyone is interested in buying one of those drives:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106227

The other thing is that it's also available. There isn't the shortage of that plagued early Blu-ray releases, and economies of scale are starting to ramp up.

The software/processing end of things isn't that much of a barrier, considering they got HD-DVD to work (despite the face it shoehorned on with an add-on.. any new SKU revision would likely have hardware features to assist in processing).

So here I go... my predictions:

Somewhere between now and the end of 2009:
-New 360 SKU with is physically smaller and quieter
-Likely cheaper
-Includes Blu-ray built-in, along with a real HDMI chip (for lossless audio)

That's it. You can quote me on that.

---
I don't see a blu-ray add-on coming, ever. There isn't much point to it from a sales perspective. It might keep current customers from purchasing a PS3, but it does very little to attract new customers. At this stage in the game, Microsoft needs to grow their own userbase, and an add-on drive doesn't do that.

Thanks Dude! When is E3? May be I can ask amazo to swap it within 30 days?
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post #99 of 115 Old 06-17-2008, 08:04 AM
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I agree. Anyone who is interested in using the supposed Blu-ray add-on drive with a PC/laptop will be enthused if it is released, as the HD-DVD add-on drive was a godsend for a lot of people who were looking for cheap HD-DVD access.

I for one imagine Microsoft will however not release a Blu-ray add-on drive and instead concentrate more on downloadable content
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post #100 of 115 Old 06-17-2008, 07:34 PM
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I keep hearing the "downloadable" content refrain, but I just can't make the economics work out on that. If I was the "average" broadband customer with my 1.5Mb DSL, I could get Blu-ray from Netflix faster than downloading it. By the time the average person has a fast enough connection, Comcast and Verizon will HAVE to charge extra to deal with the demand. I just don't believe that downloading real HD movies will be more than a novelty for several years yet.
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post #101 of 115 Old 06-17-2008, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Who'd even buy a 360 today? It's old and a new PS3 like model will be coming soon. Not sure if a BD 360 add on is appealing to anyone at this point. It'll likely be a POS like the HD DVD piece was....

Guess you don't know much about games. The 360 has a craptop more content, which is also superior to the PS3 content.
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post #102 of 115 Old 06-18-2008, 11:43 AM
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If MS does release a BR capable 360, I'm assuming it will be the new elite.

I could see them changing all three skus:
New Elite: BR player, Bigger Hd(maybe), Builtin wireless?
New Pro: Same as old elite
New Core: Same as old pro
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post #103 of 115 Old 06-19-2008, 03:23 PM
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By the time Valhalla reaches the consumer, Blu-Ray will certainly be 100% console viable. That will probably be the time that Blu-Ray hits it's apex in terms of price and performance. They are just now reaching 8x transfer speeds in the drives and 12x is the current theoretical maximum of the technology.
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post #104 of 115 Old 06-25-2008, 08:36 AM
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OK, it's been a while, any more news/rumors/speculation?

Does USB 2.0 even allow for enough bandwith to run bluray with lossless audio? If not I really hope the do not limit it to another USB add on drive. I have an old 360 (first week) that is still chugging away. I did not think it was worth upgrading to the elite for HDMI and a larger hard drive, but I would defenitely upgrade if it they had a SKU with HDMI and BR. I want to get a BR player in the near future, if I end up going with a PS3 I am sure that I will be buying a few games to go with it so microsoft will lose out there. I'm not sure I'd buy an add on that was limited to dolby digital. If they came out with a new PS3 that looked better rack mounted I would be all over it. I can't see buying a standalone player when you can get one that is also a gaming console for less money. I think there are alot of people out there that think this as well.

Anyway, just my $.02
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post #105 of 115 Old 06-27-2008, 07:11 PM
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How's this for a new rumor -- a 360 hardware free-for-all: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168394
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post #106 of 115 Old 06-30-2008, 07:47 AM
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Here's a different rumor that's significantly more believeable. This one claims that the 20GB 360 is dropping to $299 and that there will be a new model with 60GB.

It also mentions that Microsoft will be holding a pre-E3 press conference on July 14th, so maybe that will finally be the make-or-break day for this thread, assuming that they will reveal any and all of this years hardware changes.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thum...-room-for-60gb
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post #107 of 115 Old 06-30-2008, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinschmidt57 View Post

Here's a different rumor that's significantly more believeable. This one claims that the 20GB 360 is dropping to $299 and that there will be a new model with 60GB.

It also mentions that Microsoft will be holding a pre-E3 press conference on July 14th, so maybe that will finally be the make-or-break day for this thread, assuming that they will reveal any and all of this years hardware changes.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thum...-room-for-60gb

It would be about dawn time...

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #108 of 115 Old 06-30-2008, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

Does USB 2.0 even allow for enough bandwith to run bluray with lossless audio?

According to Wikipedia at least, USB 2.0 can handle 480Mb/s in Hi-Speed mode and Blu-ray's maximum AV bitrate is "48 Mb/s (for both audio and video data)".

So it sounds plenty workable, but I think the probability of an addon being produced (at least any time soon, by Microsoft) is zero. The rumors all point to an upgraded console, and there have been specific denials of an add-on.
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post #109 of 115 Old 06-30-2008, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinschmidt57 View Post

I keep hearing the "downloadable" content refrain, but I just can't make the economics work out on that. If I was the "average" broadband customer with my 1.5Mb DSL, I could get Blu-ray from Netflix faster than downloading it. By the time the average person has a fast enough connection, Comcast and Verizon will HAVE to charge extra to deal with the demand. I just don't believe that downloading real HD movies will be more than a novelty for several years yet.

And to complete my spam-fest for today, here's an article about the relative quality of download HD content -- even if you have a fat pipe to the internet, you're still not matching up to Blu-ray. Though downloadable HD may be OK for Joe Blow watching HD from 10 feet on his 32" LCD I suppose.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=959
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post #110 of 115 Old 06-30-2008, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Who'd even buy a 360 today? It's old and a new PS3 like model will be coming soon. Not sure if a BD 360 add on is appealing to anyone at this point. It'll likely be a POS like the HD DVD piece was....


All about content and online play. Frankly, these systems are really not that expensive compared to all the $$$s you spend in software. We finally just purchased a PS3 for our son because of Metal Gear Solid 4. No reason up to now to own one (for games he wants to play). He has had a 360 since launch. We even have a second 360 in our HT. There is a lot of great first party software available now for the 360 and more coming that won't be available on the PS3. SJ
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post #111 of 115 Old 07-14-2008, 01:24 PM
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Underwhelming news from the Microsoft press conference at E3 today. No new hardware announcements to add to yesterday's news of a 60GB XBox 360 coming at the first of August, and we'll probably have to wait for someone to crack one open before we'll know if it even has anything new inside. I think there's still a good chance that the 60GB could be a Jasper (with a 65nm GPU), as they wouldn't be advertising internal changes publically. I don't expect any Blu-ray surprise though, not in the 60GB model at least. Maybe there's still a chance of a new Elite someday...

I see where they are going to provide legitimate access to Netflix's "Joe-Blow" quality streaming movies. I'm sure Joe will be perfectly happy to watch those bargain-basement titles on his 32-inch LCD at 10ft. Oh well, Joe is where the money is, I guess -- not from a bunch of whiney HT enthusiasts.
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post #112 of 115 Old 07-14-2008, 02:52 PM
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Why can't we have both Blu-ray and streaming downloads...? I can see where both are useful. If I want to rent a movie, I want to be able to download it on demand for a cheap price. If I want to buy a movie, I want highest quality possible.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy Cinavia-infected Blu-ray Discs! Why pay a premium for pseudo-lossless audio damaged by an intrusive watermark in the audible spectrum?
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post #113 of 115 Old 07-14-2008, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Wait for Sony's E3 announcements, some rumor of a movie download service for PS3.
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post #114 of 115 Old 09-05-2008, 08:30 PM
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With the latest news that Microsoft is cutting prices on the XBox 360, I have given up all hope that they want to compete on features with the PS3. It sounds like they've turned their attention to the Wii.

So last weekend I went out and bought one of the new 80GB PS3's. It's an awesome DVD / Blu-ray player and AV streaming machine. Anybody who scoffs at it being a game machine will have plenty of time to feel smug while their movie is still loading. You put the disk in the PS3, it turns on, and it starts playing -- FAST.

I'll pick up a used 360 for $100 next year to play Halo 3.
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post #115 of 115 Old 09-07-2008, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinschmidt57 View Post

With the latest news that Microsoft is cutting prices on the XBox 360, I have given up all hope that they want to compete on features with the PS3. It sounds like they've turned their attention to the Wii.

So last weekend I went out and bought one of the new 80GB PS3's. It's an awesome DVD / Blu-ray player and AV streaming machine. Anybody who scoffs at it being a game machine will have plenty of time to feel smug while their movie is still loading. You put the disk in the PS3, it turns on, and it starts playing -- FAST.

I'll pick up a used 360 for $100 next year to play Halo 3.

The elite is still at the $400 price point which is the cheapest ps3 price point (a $500 160 gig ps3 comes out soon). So we may see a bluray xbox 360 next year to replace the elite and make it a more attractive competitor to the ps3. The arcade and pro can continue to lower in price.
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