The Official Samsung BD-P1500 Owner's Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 5645 Old 06-09-2008, 08:32 PM
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Blu-ray Player: BDP-1500
Receiver: Yamaha RX-V663
Audio Connection: HDMI to receiver
Video Connection: HDMI to receiver
Blu-ray video out: 1080i/60
Blu-ray audio out: Bitstream (Audiophile)

Problem:

Audio dropouts playing TrueHD track.
Audio dropouts at 41:26, 1:09:04 and 1:19:56.
Dropouts were not repeatable when rewinding and replaying.
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post #452 of 5645 Old 06-09-2008, 09:23 PM
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I purchased the 1500 today to replace a BD30. The BD30 was a great player when I had firmware 1.1 installed. It played everything I threw at it (even known trouble discs) with no errors. Then I had trouble with Resident Evil 3, and upgraded the firmware to address that issue. It mostly fixed it, but then I had the dreaded TrueHD audio dropout problem.

So I was hoping the 1500 would cure all my audio dropout woes. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be the case, since I just had three non-repeatable dropouts with National Treasure 2.

However, I was beginning to think my receiver was at fault. However, the nature of the dropouts is much less severe with the 1500 than it was with the BD30. First, on the BD30 I had 11 dropouts with NT2, and only 3 with the 1500. Also, the dropouts on the 1500 were much shorter in duration, thus much harder to hear to a casual listener, but clearly they were there. Since the quantity and duration were both altered by swapping players, I'm going to say that the receiver is probably not at fault (if it was a bad receiver, dropout duration should stay the same from player to player).

No problems with video though, and I think the 1500 looks much the same as the BD30. The BD30 does have more video settings though, and I had tweaked it to get a little bit sharper picture, so the 1500 was a little softer than my BD30 setup. However, with standard BD30 settings vs. standard 1500 settings, I would say both are identical in video quality.

Audio levels between the two players does seem different. For example, my listening level for NT2 from the BD30 was at a setting of -25dB on the 663. To get roughly the same volume level out of the 1500, I used -32dB. At -25dB with the 1500, it was uncomfortably loud. I actually prefer the 1500 because I watch Dish at -35dB normally, and at -32 to -30 dB on Dish for a 5.1 movie, so I essentially don't have to adjust the volume when switching between Dish and the 1500. I did have to with the BD30.

I'm still not sold on the 1500, since my first disc out had three dropouts. While an improvement, it isn't a fix. I am willing to give it a couple weeks to sell me though. I reported my problems to Samsung, so maybe it is something that can be fixed by an update.

On my BD30, my worst movie for dropouts with 1.6 or higher is Resident Evil 3 @25 dropouts. #2 is Enchanted with around 20. #3 was NT2 with 11. The rest of my dropout discs on the BD30 were just 2-4 dropouts. I plan on trying RE3 again to see if there are still drops. Anyone out there have Enchanted (mine was a rental) to try? It was a known problem causer for many players, and not just the BD30.

I will continue to report any problems/potential problems as I get some more movies under the players belt.

And I almost forgot heat... The 1500 is warmer than the BD30, but I'm not sure how significant. My 1500 is in an entertainment center, behind a closed glass door, and the components area is vented by two low CFM (quiet) fans. The 1500 sits on top of an XA2 (powered off) and has an additional 1.5" of space above it before the next shelf, has 3" on each side, and has a good 6-8" behind it. After watching NT2 (2 hours 5 minutes), the 1500 was warm to the touch, but not hot. I would guess around 90 degrees. The disc was warm too, I would guess it was between 90-100 degrees. I work alot with temperature measurement using numerous types of thermocouples and pyrometers, and I would be confident saying nothing felt more than 100F, which isn't that hot for an electronics device.
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post #453 of 5645 Old 06-09-2008, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rutlian View Post

I don't have the game plan but I tried lot of bluray with no problem so far. Did you tyr other Bluray movies? I Know you mention the disc surface is clean but still could be the disc not the player.

Yes: The Eye, Juno, Semi-Pro, The Air I Breathe, Rambo + 2 more without problem (Rambo - only got minor audio drops as most people mentioned)

The Game Plan is the 1st disc that gave me this much concern.
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post #454 of 5645 Old 06-09-2008, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classico View Post

My issue with Patton was just B4 the intermission. 3 to 4 minutes of macro blocking. NO sound issues through out and the rest of the movie was OK. Amazon is taking it back and sending a replacement.

Classico

I watched the rest of the flick after posting about problems at the beginning, and saw the exact same problem you just described.
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post #455 of 5645 Old 06-09-2008, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Blu-ray Player: BDP-1500
Receiver: Yamaha RX-V663
Audio Connection: HDMI to receiver
Video Connection: HDMI to receiver
Blu-ray video out: 1080i/60
Blu-ray audio out: Bitstream (Audiophile)

Problem:

Audio dropouts playing TrueHD track.
Audio dropouts at 41:26, 1:09:04 and 1:19:56.
Dropouts were not repeatable when rewinding and replaying.

Just got done watching NT2 TrueHD bitstream (audiophile) without any issues at all.
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post #456 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Just got done watching NT2 TrueHD bitstream (audiophile) without any issues at all.

I'm not convinced that they aren't there, but many are just missing them.

For example, let's say there is an audio drop just as someone starts to say the word "somebody" in normal conversation. On the BD30, you would either miss the whole word, or just hear "--------dy". Obviously noticeable.

On the 1500, you would hear "-omebody". As you can see, a much shorter drop and much easier for someone to miss. With NT2, I think only one of the three drops were while someone was speaking, making them that much harder to detect.

Of course, it is possible that there are differences from disc to disc, or player to player. I had even thought it was my receiver, but since swapping players, if it was just my receiver, I don't think the dropout would have went from "-------dy" to "-omebody".

I will continue to keep my ear out and post anymore problem discs I encounter.
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post #457 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kpmac1 View Post

What you've done is a good idea but it doesnt "draw air" at all since it doesn't have a fan.

"Draw air" was probably not a good analogy. There are vent holes on the bottom of the 1500. Heat rises, therefore the "draws air" analogy was used. Anyway, getting it up off the shelve provides better air flow around the machine and hopefully will lower the temps.
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post #458 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 04:05 AM
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I posted a few pages back that I am using the Antec laptop cooler with this unit and it works great. The power is supplied by the USB port and it solves the heat issue.

Regarding audio dropouts, I have had the same experience as WNORRIS had with NT2.
the dropouts started about 3/4 way through the disk. I am wondering if it is a disk issue since I did not have a problem through the entire movie.
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post #459 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I posted a few pages back that I am using the Antec laptop cooler with this unit and it works great. The power is supplied by the USB port and it solves the heat issue.

Regarding audio dropouts, I have had the same experience as WNORRIS had with NT2.
the dropouts started about 3/4 way through the disk. I am wondering if it is a disk issue since I did not have a problem through the entire movie.

You may be on to something. I watched NT2 on my PS3 & it just locked up solid, right before they go to the Library of Congress.

carry on with your HD-Lite Directv loving banter! <--Comedy Gold
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post #460 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 06:02 AM
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I have been following the development of HD & Blu-Ray since day one. Over a year ago there were many reports of low yields for Blu-Ray disks. Now that the war is over and there is increased demand I am wondering if quality control is suffering. I have had several disks with issues recently including Enchanted and NT2. It would be interesting to see where they are being manufactured. It would also be interesting to find out the methods used for quality control. Having said the above I am sure that things will impove. I remember issues when SD first came out. If you get a bad disk return it and try another. I realize this may not help in all situations because you may get another from the same batch. I have done this several times and except on one case the replacement was fine. I also believe that with better error correction and newer firmwares and players these issues will be solved. Enjoy your 1500 and watch for new firmware updates.
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post #461 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 06:22 AM
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I'm still having terrible lip sync problems. The worst so far has been "Shoot Em Up". I have tried playing around with the delay feature in my Onkyo 705 receiver and even tried extending my speaker distances to try and compensate for it but nothing works. I have lip sync set at "0ms" and the audio is still behind the picture. It's not as noticeable on Resident Evil 3 and No Country but still there. I know my receiver has an issue with lip sync but it was a non issue on my Toshiba HD-A2. Now I don't know what to blame. My receiver or the 1500? I really like the player otherwise and the whole point of me getting this player was the bitstreaming capability. I'm somewhat inclined to consider another receiver but thats a big investment I hadn't planned to make again so soon.
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post #462 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 06:42 AM
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Dropzone,have you updated the firmware on your receiver. If you did not do it you might want to check out the Onkyo firm ware update thread in the audio receiver section.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1016297

I have tried the 1500 with the Onkyo 606 with no lipsync issues.
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post #463 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

I'm not convinced that they aren't there, but many are just missing them.

I have been looking out for them and I didn't fall asleep during the movie. I watched it in the theater versus the den so it was rather loud.

Could they have been so short I missed them... sure. I have used two 1500s so far with roughly six movies and listening real close I haven't had one issue.

In some cases if you get an audio drop I'll heard the receiver "pop" out of the audio codec and then "pop" back in so it's rather easy to spot.
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post #464 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 07:01 AM
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Dropzone, I'm seeing the same problem with my Onkyo 875. I know my firmware is out of date, and eventually I will update it. If you extend your speaker distances, you only make it worse.

There is something I noticed: The lipsync occurs after there has been a pause in conversation, and it corrects itself temporarily after a few sentences.

I plan on returning the 1500 this week as my BB 30 day return period is drawing to an end. I can live w/o blu-ray for a couple of months until the Pioneers come out.
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post #465 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

Dropzone,have you updated the firmware on your receiver. If you did not do it you might want to check out the Onkyo firm ware update thread in the audio receiver section.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1016297

I have tried the 1500 with the Onkyo 606 with no lipsync issues.

No, I have not done this but thanks for the link. Unfortunately, it looks like he didn't provide the main firmware update links due to it requiring special equipment. I suppose I could download the DSP upgrade but it looks like that's just for the DTS popping which is something I have yet to experience. Does this mean I need to take my 705 in for service to have the MAIN firmware upgrade done?
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post #466 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 07:51 AM
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Remote codes...I have the ONE FOR ALL. I have the 9910 rf. When I did manual code search nothing worked.I tried the specified Samsung code and still not work. Can't learn cause memory full. But this player looks great. Played Eragon last night and no freeze ups like my Panny BD10. Have Pioneer 1015 and can't decide to update to 1018 when comes out or get new pioneer 051 when comes. Thiss 1500 SURE looks good so far.Love it......
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post #467 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 07:58 AM
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Dropzone, You are correct you can only load the DSP on the Onkyo the main firmware must be done with a special jig and a laptop making it difficult to do at home. Have you tried any other direct bitstreamed players to see if you still have the issue. I am betting the problem is with the receiver.
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post #468 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

Dropzone, You are correct you can only load the DSP on the Onkyo the main firmware must be done with a special jig and a laptop making it difficult to do at home. Have you tried any other direct bitstreamed players to see if you still have the issue. I am betting the problem is with the receiver.

I very briefly tried a BD30 a few months ago that my dad has but didn't spend enough time with it to note if it had this problem. I can borrow his player a night or two this week to do some testing. So far, "Shoot Em Up" has been the most noticeable so I will try that disc for sure in a comparison test.
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post #469 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Could they have been so short I missed them... sure.

So I guess the ultimate question is, "If a drop is so short that you didn't hear it, did it really exist?"

Any drop I've noticed has been extremely brief and it seems to happen when the camera changes angles. Almost like there's a burst of data that either the player can't transmit or the receiver can't decode.
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post #470 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I have been following the development of HD & Blu-Ray since day one. Over a year ago there were many reports of low yields for Blu-Ray disks. Now that the war is over and there is increased demand I am wondering if quality control is suffering. I have had several disks with issues recently including Enchanted and NT2. It would be interesting to see where they are being manufactured. It would also be interesting to find out the methods used for quality control. Having said the above I am sure that things will impove. I remember issues when SD first came out. If you get a bad disk return it and try another. I realize this may not help in all situations because you may get another from the same batch. I have done this several times and except on one case the replacement was fine. I also believe that with better error correction and newer firmwares and players these issues will be solved. Enjoy your 1500 and watch for new firmware updates.

Well, I wonder if there might be different methods of encoding, and one studio is using a method that inherently causes problems.

Enchanted was a problem disc for most players.
National Treasure 2 was a problem, at least on the BD30 and the 1500.
We have one report of Game Plan (hopefully someone else can chime in on this title).

So we have three recent Disney releases with reported problems. Could the problem really trace back to the House of Mouse and how they are encoding their movies? They did screw up the framing on Pirates after all...

I've always reported these problems to my receiver and player manufacturer, but maybe they need to be reported to the studios too.
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post #471 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmac1 View Post

So I guess the ultimate question is, "If a drop is so short that you didn't hear it, did it really exist?"

Any drop I've noticed has been extremely brief and it seems to happen when the camera changes angles. Almost like there's a burst of data that either the player can't transmit or the receiver can't decode.

I agree that they all three were very brief compared to my BD30. The BD30 dropouts I experience are very close to a full second. I would say the drops on the 1500 are a quarter second, or maybe even less. Just enough to miss one or two letters of a syllable vs. missing the whole word on the BD30. On the BD30, a guy might fire 10 shots, but you might only hear 8 thanks to a dropout.

Maybe drops are inherent to the technology, and as it evolves, error correction will get fast.

I mean, you are pulling data off a disc and into a buffer. From the buffer, you are streaming it out to HDMI. Once it leaves the buffer, there is no more error correction (HDMI has none since it is a realtime stream at that point).

So error correction can only be performed at the drive and perhaps in the buffer (I don't think players verify the buffer and correct bad bits, but I suppose they could with a fast enough processor).

I think the HDMI standard allows one bad bit per billion bits. Each pixel is 24 bits (I think, so roughly every one second, there are one billion bits of video data). Then I think TrueHD and DTS-MA tracks have 16-24Mbits per second, so maybe a billion bits every minute. So technically, your HDMI connection can be in spec, and during a two hour movie there could be over 7300 errors in the data transmission. I guess if one or two of these result in an audio glitch, you are within statistical probability of that happening.

Even the drives error correction is limited by the buffer size and read speed of the drive, since that buffer will empty quickly if it takes the drive too long to error correct.
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post #472 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Blu-ray Player: BDP-1500
Receiver: Yamaha RX-V663
Audio Connection: HDMI to receiver
Video Connection: HDMI to receiver
Blu-ray video out: 1080i/60
Blu-ray audio out: Bitstream (Audiophile)

Problem:

Audio dropouts playing TrueHD track.
Audio dropouts at 41:26, 1:09:04 and 1:19:56.
Dropouts were not repeatable when rewinding and replaying.

This was the first movie we watched with our 1500 and there were 0 problems (I did verify the TrueHD track was being bitstreamed).

Onkyo SR805, 1080p/60 (only watched it on our Projector, not Pioneer which can take and display /24p properly.

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post #473 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Maybe drops are inherent to the technology, and as it evolves, error correction will get fast.

My guess is if there was a delivery issue one would more than likely to see it with the video. Also why would an error generally produce no sound versus producing distorted sound? A while back I purchased a bad HDMI cable and from what I remember the image came and went however the audio appeared stable. However I do have a short memory.
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post #474 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

I'm not convinced that they aren't there, but many are just missing them.

For example, let's say there is an audio drop just as someone starts to say the word "somebody" in normal conversation. On the BD30, you would either miss the whole word, or just hear "--------dy". Obviously noticeable.

On the 1500, you would hear "-omebody". As you can see, a much shorter drop and much easier for someone to miss. With NT2, I think only one of the three drops were while someone was speaking, making them that much harder to detect.

Of course, it is possible that there are differences from disc to disc, or player to player. I had even thought it was my receiver, but since swapping players, if it was just my receiver, I don't think the dropout would have went from "-------dy" to "-omebody".

I will continue to keep my ear out and post anymore problem discs I encounter.


Just watched NT2 last night and no Audio drop, I agree with you they are hard to detect if someone is speaking but last night it is just me and my wife watching and maybe there was and there was'nt.

Peter
Enjoy HD no matter what......
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post #475 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

This was the first movie we watched with our 1500 and there were 0 problems (I did verify the TrueHD track was being bitstreamed).

Onkyo SR805, 1080p/60 (only watched it on our Projector, not Pioneer which can take and display /24p properly.

I've requested a replacement disc from Amazon since so many say zero problems. We will see how the replacement performs. It could be a bad disc.
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post #476 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 02:34 PM
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If you feel you are hearing things regarding the audio short drops I think you are wrong.
I played NT2 and I had several audio drops 3/4 way through until the end. I really think it is a bad disk. It is quite different from Panasonic BD30 issue.
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post #477 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 03:08 PM
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Hey guys I have a question, and I really haven't been able to find the answer but did try to get some info from samsung's manual d/l.

I currently have a small pioneer 5.1 system, that can decode Dolby Digital and DTS, and has an optical input. It's not a full blown AVR that has HDMI input, so it can't decode any of the advanced codecs.

My question is that I'm confused on the three types of outputs:

- My guess is that PCM basically puts everything together, and then outputs it as 5.1 ch audio? (including DD, DTS, TrueHD, but not DTSHDMA?)

- What about the bitrate re-encode? It converts everything to PCM, and then to DTS? But what advantage is there to this, especially since the manual says that the audio quality might be worse? Why is this extra step worth anything?

- Bitstream audiophile - I assume this is for full avr's only w/ the capability, and so I can't use it anyway.

What would be best for me? PCM or Re-encode? thx guys.
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post #478 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by viper98912 View Post

Hey guys I have a question, and I really haven't been able to find the answer but did try to get some info from samsung's manual d/l.

I currently have a small pioneer 5.1 system, that can decode Dolby Digital and DTS, and has an optical input. It's not a full blown AVR that has HDMI input, so it can't decode any of the advanced codecs.

My question is that I'm confused on the three types of outputs:

- My guess is that PCM basically puts everything together, and then outputs it as 5.1 ch audio? (including DD, DTS, TrueHD, but not DTSHDMA?)

- What about the bitrate re-encode? It converts everything to PCM, and then to DTS? But what advantage is there to this, especially since the manual says that the audio quality might be worse? Why is this extra step worth anything?

- Bitstream audiophile - I assume this is for full avr's only w/ the capability, and so I can't use it anyway.

What would be best for me? PCM or Re-encode? thx guys.

I think in the first few pages back in this thread owners been happy about the Re-encode they treat this as a bonus feature that comes with samsung 1500. I think you use this if you only have optical or older R'cvr.

Peter
Enjoy HD no matter what......
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post #479 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 03:55 PM
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Yes, my AVR only decodes DD and DTS and using the Bitstream(re-encode) sends a good quality DTS stream to my receiver via optical. Sounds very good (to my ears anyway).
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post #480 of 5645 Old 06-10-2008, 05:05 PM
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NT2 played without a problem on my BD10.
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