Official Blu-Ray Player Audio Setup Thread - All Audio Questions Go Here - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 1693 Old 12-19-2008, 04:48 AM
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Maybe a stupid question?
Regarding 7.1 -I play a BD that is True Dolby or DTS Master, but it's only 5.1, not 6 or 7.1
My Onkyo 705 can decode both so where this is done does not matter, as long as that's the selected track from the disc (right?).
But I want to fill the rears. So I select Dolby EX or DTS EX (or whatever they are called on Onkyo). Is all that happens is signals for the rear get matrixed out of this, while leaving the rest of this as the HD stuff, in other words NOT taking this back down to the standard DOLBY/DTS realms?
Told you--this could be a stupid question.
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post #62 of 1693 Old 12-19-2008, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmplot View Post

Maybe a stupid question?
Regarding 7.1 -I play a BD that is True Dolby or DTS Master, but it's only 5.1, not 6 or 7.1
My Onkyo 705 can decode both so where this is done does not matter, as long as that's the selected track from the disc (right?).
But I want to fill the rears. So I select Dolby EX or DTS EX (or whatever they are called on Onkyo). Is all that happens is signals for the rear get matrixed out of this, while leaving the rest of this as the HD stuff, in other words NOT taking this back down to the standard DOLBY/DTS realms?
Told you--this could be a stupid question.

You'll get however many channels were encoded on that particular disc. The compressed track (TrueHD, dts-MA, or whatever compression is used) gets decoded into PCM and THEN you apply the DSP. So, no, you don't get a lossy version instead of the lossless one.
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post #63 of 1693 Old 12-22-2008, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Here's why: Your AVR likely has better tools for bass management and EQ. It may also have better DACs. Since analog uses the player's tools and bypasses all of the AVR's processing, a digital transmission may produce better sound. Also, if you have a 6.1 or 7.1 system, digital enables you to apply a DSP such as PLIIx to fill those rear speakers with sound. That's not possible with analog on most receivers.

I have my BD55 connected both ways and I use coax for DVDs. But, I don't really notice any differences in my room on my equipment.

I won't argue that if you really require processing of the raw digital data for your AVR then maybe there are some advantages to going with an all digital connection. Be aware though that some high end AVRs can apply EQ, bass management, etc, to the analog inputs.

Also, I'm not terribly convinced that there is any more degradation in quality converting from digital to analog in the AVR than doing it in the player. This is obviously 10X more the case in the world of lossless audio tracks.
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post #64 of 1693 Old 12-23-2008, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I won't argue that if you really require processing of the raw digital data for your AVR then maybe there are some advantages to going with an all digital connection.

AVRs generally have better bass management - options like selectable crossovers and different crossovers for each speaker. Most AVRs also have EQ settings while very few players have any EQ at all. Analog bypasses AVR features such as Audyssey. Plus, the quality of the DACs can vary. I think this goes beyond "really requiring processing". Most players have pretty crude processing tools.

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Be aware though that some high end AVRs can apply EQ, bass management, etc, to the analog inputs.

Yes. In those small number of cases, the AVR handles the processing.

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Also, I'm not terribly convinced that there is any more degradation in quality converting from digital to analog in the AVR than doing it in the player. This is obviously 10X more the case in the world of lossless audio tracks.

Sorry, but I'm confused here. There's no quality degradation either way. Digital has to be converted to analog somewhere. Everything else being equal, the device with the better DACs will produce the better analog output. It doesn't matter where the conversion takes place. Either device can have the better DACs.
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post #65 of 1693 Old 12-23-2008, 08:24 AM
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I'm not convinced that the DAC in a high dollar AVR is going to sound noticeably better than the DAC in a budget BD player these days.

In the case of lossless audio where there is essentially less wiggle room for how the decoded audio "ought to" sound I think it is even less the case that these differences are noticeable.

In any event, I have a mid-level audio setup in my theater, so for me, the differences would not be apparent in any event.

For folks with golden ears and/or monster audio setups then maybe they would want the analog conversion to happen in their AVR.
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post #66 of 1693 Old 12-25-2008, 10:36 AM
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Ok guys. Newbie here. I have spent the last 2 hours reading through various forums and posts, and I think I understand most of this now, but I still have a couple of questions.

I had a Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray player hooked up to a Sony STR-DG710 receiver through HDMI. I know it is a 5.1 receiver and does not decode the lossless audio formats. I also am aware that the older Blu-ray player did not support the lossless audio formats. I am ok with a 5.1 setup, as I live in a small apartment, and can't do much else at this time. I never had problem with audio on any of my Blu-ray discs. Everything came through in 5.1 just fine, including Wall-E, which is my first DTS-MA disc.

I just upgraded to a Sony BDP-S350 Blu-ray player. I am still connected to the same receiver through HDMI. I cannot get 5.1 surround sound on any disc with DTS-MA lossless audio. Here is what I think I have learned, if someone could confirm. I'm guessing I could get 5.1 surround sound using the BDP-S300 because it was automatically downgrading the DTS-MA into a regular DTS format before it ever left the player, since it did not support lossless audio in the first place. On the new BDP-S350, because it does not decode DTS-MA in the player, I'm guessing it is trying to send the audio to the receiver to be processed? Since my receiver can't process DTS-MA either, I am not getting 5.1 surround sound, at all, only 2 channel audio. Is that correct?

It appears that if I connect the BDP-S350 to my receiver with a coax or optical cable, I will be able to get the 5.1 surround sound. I have read and understand how I need to set up the audio settings on my player to do this. Why do I have to use a coax or optical cable to get the downgraded mix? Why can't I receive 5.1 at all through the HDMI on DTS-MA discs? Why does this information not come through the HDMI cable? Also, does this mean that in order to receive a 5.1 mix through the HDMI cable, I either need to upgrade to the BDP-S550 player (which has internal DTS-MA decoding) or upgrade my receiver to one that decodes the lossless formats? Thank you!
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post #67 of 1693 Old 12-25-2008, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folnevar View Post

I had a Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray player hooked up to a Sony STR-DG710 receiver through HDMI. I know it is a 5.1 receiver and does not decode the lossless audio formats.

Does your 710 process multichannel PCM over HDMI? Assuming it does, set the Audio Output Priority to HDMI and set HDMI Audio to Direct. The HDMI handshake between the player and receiver will determine how/where the audio gets decoded. TrueHD should be decoded in the player and sent to the receiver as multichannel PCM. Other encoded tracks will likely be bitstreamed to the receiver for decoding since it can decode them.

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I just upgraded to a Sony BDP-S350 Blu-ray player. I am still connected to the same receiver through HDMI. I cannot get 5.1 surround sound on any disc with DTS-MA lossless audio. Here is what I think I have learned, if someone could confirm. I'm guessing I could get 5.1 surround sound using the BDP-S300 because it was automatically downgrading the DTS-MA into a regular DTS format before it ever left the player, since it did not support lossless audio in the first place. On the new BDP-S350, because it does not decode DTS-MA in the player, I'm guessing it is trying to send the audio to the receiver to be processed? Since my receiver can't process DTS-MA either, I am not getting 5.1 surround sound, at all, only 2 channel audio. Is that correct?

Close. When the receiver tells the player it lacks HDMI 1.3 and a dts-MA decoder, the player should send a DTS core track via bitstream for the receiver to decode. A 2 channel output indicates that you have not set the Audio Output Priority to HDMI. If it is set to something else, then the HDMI output is limited to stereo PCM. Or, if your receiver has an audio connection to the TV, then that might produce a stereo output as well. TVs are two channel devices and the HDMI handshake with the TV may be your problem.

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It appears that if I connect the BDP-S350 to my receiver with a coax or optical cable, I will be able to get the 5.1 surround sound. I have read and understand how I need to set up the audio settings on my player to do this. Why do I have to use a coax or optical cable to get the downgraded mix?

You don't have to use coax or optical.
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post #68 of 1693 Old 12-25-2008, 05:46 PM
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OK, I got it to work. I set the HDMI control on the receiver to off, and now I am getting 5.1 surround on DTS Blu-rays. My HDMI control settings were already turned off on my tv. I think I understand the concept of the HDMI handshake, but why would having the HDMI control setting on the receiver set to ON cause the audio to only come out as 2 channel stereo?

Thanks for your help!
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post #69 of 1693 Old 12-25-2008, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folnevar View Post

OK, I got it to work. I set the HDMI control on the receiver to off, and now I am getting 5.1 surround on DTS Blu-rays. My HDMI control settings were already turned off on my tv. I think I understand the concept of the HDMI handshake, but why would having the HDMI control setting on the receiver set to ON cause the audio to only come out as 2 channel stereo?

Sorry. I don't know what HDMI Control is.
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post #70 of 1693 Old 12-25-2008, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Sorry. I don't know what HDMI Control is.

I don't understand it completely, but it's the option where the components communicate and turn on/off with each other or sync together when you run one component.

For example, you turn on your Blu-ray player, and the receiver and tv automatically change to the correct inputs without you actually doing it manually. I'm guessing there is some sort of information exchange that does this. I had it turned on, on my receiver, so that whenever I powered on the Blu-ray player to watch a movie, it would switch to the correct input. I did NOT have that option turned on, on my TV however, as sometimes I didn't want it to automatically switch inputs when I powered another device on.

When you suggested the connection to the tv possibly being the problem, I checked all the HDMI control settings, thinking this might be what you meant. I only had HDMI control turned on, on my receiver, and when I turned it off, DTS 5.1 started coming through on the DTS-MA Blu-rays.

Not sure how or why that is. Either way, problem solved and I thank you for your assistance. I was just trying to understand why this happened for future reference!

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post #71 of 1693 Old 12-26-2008, 09:32 PM
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Hi everybody !

First, i'm a newbee in all HD TV and HD sound... also BD is new for me !
I just had my S350 for christmas and i hooked it up to my receiver.
Can somebody help me to set up all my system to get the best from it ?
A few information about my system.
The S350 is connected to the receiver via HDMI, and also to the TV via Comp cable and Analog audio. (to be able to use the player without having to open the receiver and the home theatre)
The receiver is connected to the TV via HDMI
The receiver is Thrue HD capable and i want to enjoy this capability.
If anyone can help me to setup my VIDEO and AUDIO menu on the S350...
Thanks for your help and knowledge !!!
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post #72 of 1693 Old 12-26-2008, 10:02 PM
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i have a Samsung BDP 1500 and while watching a blu ray disc with 'BONUSVIEW' features the 'BONUSVIEW' text icon WILL NOT GO AWAY. i have gone through menus but nothing obvious is working. this is beyond frustrating. HELP!
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post #73 of 1693 Old 12-26-2008, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachparty View Post

If anyone can help me to setup my VIDEO and AUDIO menu on the S350...

Please ask questions like these in the S350 Owners' Thread. You'll get more answers there. Plus, this thread is not the place for "I just got my new player, how do I set it up" questions.

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Originally Posted by criddler View Post

i have a Samsung BDP 1500 and while watching a blu ray disc with 'BONUSVIEW' features the 'BONUSVIEW' text icon WILL NOT GO AWAY. i have gone through menus but nothing obvious is working. this is beyond frustrating. HELP!

Please ask about this in the Samsung 1500 Owners' Thread. You'll get more answers there. Plus, this thread is not the place for on screen display issues.
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post #74 of 1693 Old 12-27-2008, 09:03 AM
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A reminder to everyone. This thread is for specific audio setup questions such as "why isn't DD 5.1 working between my player and my receiver" or "I don't understand the difference between connecting HDMI and optical".

It's not a thread for setup issues with specific machines, please detail those questions in the very helpful and appropriate threads for the specific player in question.

Thanks!
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post #75 of 1693 Old 12-27-2008, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

A reminder to everyone. This thread is for specific audio setup questions such as "why isn't DD 5.1 working between my player and my receiver" or "I don't understand the difference between connecting HDMI and optical".

It's not a thread for setup issues with specific machines, please detail those questions in the very helpful and appropriate threads for the specific player in question.

You might want to put this info at the top of the thread. I came to this forum to post a question about a specific audio setup issue with a specific machine, saw this sticky, and diverted here only to find out on the last page that this is not the right thread.
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post #76 of 1693 Old 12-31-2008, 05:22 PM
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I'm finally chunking down for a Onkyo 606 reciever so I can enjoy HD lossless sound.

I have a PS3 as my Blu-ray player.

I was all set and ready till I read in a home theatre magazine that things may not be so simple.

I want to put in a blu ray in my PS3 connect it to my Onkyo TR606 with an HDMI 1.3 cable and hear Dolby Digital HD.

Am I on track or do I have to worry about transfers and PCM bit rates and what not?

Sheesh.
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post #77 of 1693 Old 12-31-2008, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Noel Goodman View Post

I'm finally chunking down for a Onkyo 606 reciever so I can enjoy HD lossless sound.

I have a PS3 as my Blu-ray player.

I was all set and ready till I read in a home theatre magazine that things may not be so simple.

I want to put in a blu ray in my PS3 connect it to my Onkyo TR606 with an HDMI 1.3 cable and hear Dolby Digital HD.

Am I on track or do I have to worry about transfers and PCM bit rates and what not?

You should post this in the PS3 thread. The PS3 doesn't bitstream the HD codecs. You will need to set it to decode TrueHD and dts-MA and output them as PCM over HDMI. The decoders in the Onkyo will not be used.
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post #78 of 1693 Old 01-01-2009, 06:52 AM
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I unfortunately did not do my homework and am kicking myself for not buying a Blu Ray player that decodes DTS HD MA. There are some weird things happening that I'd like some help with. I'll try to be clear. My receiver is a Yamaha HTR6080, HDMI 1.2a I believe (similar to the RX861). It has two HDMI Inputs and one output. I am pretty sure it does not have any HDMI decoders. Please correct me if I am wrong.

1) I set the Sammy to PCM and the Yammy shows MPCM. I'd like to get signal info on the audio bitrate but can't. Am I getting the HD sound when watching a TrueHD movie. (Sammy does decode TrueHD). I just want to be sure that it is the best possible sound.

2) Should I set the BD player to Bitstream for regular DVD?

3) When I watch Blu Ray's with DTS HD MA sound I can still bitstream to the receiver and the receiver is decoding and outputting sound. I'm not sure if it is the DTS HD though. Is that normal? Shouldn't it be quiet? The signal info shows 5.1 or 6.1 (depending on disc), DTS and a 1536Kb bitrate. That seems low considering the discs are 3+ MB/s right for audio right? Does that mean the receiver is pretending it is regular DTS at the max bitrate?

4) When I put on Wall E and output bitstream the output shows 6.1 and the DTS lights come on in the AVR display. When I set the BD player to PCM the signal is 5.1 and the rear center does not light up on the AVR display. Are both my componenents capable of 6, 7 and 8 channels of MPCM?

5) Will Samsung do a firmware upgrade to decode DTS HD MA?

I wish I learned more before seeing the sales and jumping on the band wagon. I really want to know that I am capable of listening to the best possible audio.

Thanks for looking and replying (if you do)
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post #79 of 1693 Old 01-01-2009, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by keesjan View Post

1) I set the Sammy to PCM and the Yammy shows MPCM. I'd like to get signal info on the audio bitrate but can't. Am I getting the HD sound when watching a TrueHD movie.

It seems likely. I am not familiar with Samsung setups, though.

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2) Should I set the BD player to Bitstream for regular DVD?

That probably slightly better because you will be using your receiver's processing tools instead of the player's. But, any differences are likely to be minor. The only real advantage comes with DTS-ES and DD-EX discs, as noted in (4) below.

Quote:


3) When I watch Blu Ray's with DTS HD MA sound I can still bitstream to the receiver and the receiver is decoding and outputting sound. I'm not sure if it is the DTS HD though. Is that normal? Shouldn't it be quiet? The signal info shows 5.1 or 6.1 (depending on disc), DTS and a 1536Kb bitrate. That seems low considering the discs are 3+ MB/s right for audio right? Does that mean the receiver is pretending it is regular DTS at the max bitrate?

Since your AVR can't decode dts-MA, the player sends the "core" instead, which is encoded at 1.5 mbps.

Quote:


4) When I put on Wall E and output bitstream the output shows 6.1 and the DTS lights come on in the AVR display. When I set the BD player to PCM the signal is 5.1 and the rear center does not light up on the AVR display. Are both my componenents capable of 6, 7 and 8 channels of MPCM?

Most player DTS decoders ignore the ES flags. DTS recommends bitstreaming those tracks to a fully functional DTS decoder in a receiver.

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5) Will Samsung do a firmware upgrade to decode DTS HD MA?

Dunno.

Quote:


I wish I learned more before seeing the sales and jumping on the band wagon. I really want to know that I am capable of listening to the best possible audio.

Try comparing a TrueHD track decoded in the player and the same track bitstreamed to your receiver for decoding. (Make sure you match volume levels since most people think louder sounds better.) Hear a difference? DD and DTS are encoded at high bit rates on BD and they sound great, some say just as good as lossless. So, you aren't missing much, if anything at all, by not having a dts-MA decoder. Better speakers will do a lot more to improve your sound than a better BD player.
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post #80 of 1693 Old 01-01-2009, 11:36 AM
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Hi all, if I buy a player that has the analog outputs (they all say 7.1) and my older Harmon Kardon receiver has both 5.1 and 7.1 inputs (there are eight all together I believe) and I actually only have six speakers (not including the sub) will I able to setup the player for this? Or will I have to remove the sixth speaker?

Thanks
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post #81 of 1693 Old 01-01-2009, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by julkruk View Post

Hi all, if I buy a player that has the analog outputs (they all say 7.1) and my older Harmon Kardon receiver has both 5.1 and 7.1 inputs (there are eight all together I believe) and I actually only have six speakers (not including the sub) will I able to setup the player for this? Or will I have to remove the sixth speaker?

The key information is probably in your receiver manual - how does it handle 7.1 analog input when the AVR is configured for 6.1 output?

You'll also need to look at the manuals for the players you are considering to see what they do with the rear speakers. Most have options for 5.1 and 7.1, but not 6.1.

Of course, the vast majority of discs are 5.1. With analog, you can't apply a DSP like PLIIx or DD-EX to matrix sound for the rear speaker.
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post #82 of 1693 Old 01-01-2009, 12:42 PM
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Im only running a 5.1 setup right now with the VSX-01TXH, so should I uncheck all of the 7.1 outputs in the PS3 audio setup? Thanks for the help!!
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post #83 of 1693 Old 01-01-2009, 08:43 PM
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I have a little issue with my Blu ray player (BDP-1500) and am hoping you guys can help me. I have a Poineer Elite vsx-82TXS receiver. When i set my Sammy to PCM audio and turn downsampling off the signal is still 48khz PCM. My amp supports 96 khz PCM audio. I also have a Toshiba A2 connected and the amp picks up the PCM 96 KHZ signal no problem. Both devices are connected via hdmi only. Any suggestions??? Any help would be appreciated and have a happy New Year!!
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post #84 of 1693 Old 01-02-2009, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julkruk View Post

Hi all, if I buy a player that has the analog outputs (they all say 7.1) and my older Harmon Kardon receiver has both 5.1 and 7.1 inputs (there are eight all together I believe) and I actually only have six speakers (not including the sub) will I able to setup the player for this? Or will I have to remove the sixth speaker?

A 7.1 receiver should also be able to be set up for 6.1 (one rear speaker instead of two).
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post #85 of 1693 Old 01-02-2009, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucien1964 View Post

I have a little issue with my Blu ray player (BDP-1500) and am hoping you guys can help me. I have a Poineer Elite vsx-82TXS receiver. When i set my Sammy to PCM audio and turn downsampling off the signal is still 48khz PCM. My amp supports 96 khz PCM audio. I also have a Toshiba A2 connected and the amp picks up the PCM 96 KHZ signal no problem. Both devices are connected via hdmi only. Any suggestions??? Any help would be appreciated and have a happy New Year!!

I believe it is because the signal is only 48khz. Not too many titles are 96khz. The subwoofer section has some good links to dvd and BD recordings that support certain types of audio.
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post #86 of 1693 Old 01-02-2009, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by keesjan View Post

I believe it is because the signal is only 48khz. Not too many titles are 96khz. The subwoofer section has some good links to dvd and BD recordings that support certain types of audio.

thanks for the info!!!
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post #87 of 1693 Old 01-02-2009, 05:13 PM
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I have a Samsung 1500 BR player and i am using the optical out to my Rotel 1056 receiver.

Now i have noticed a huge improvment in surround sound when watching dolby true hd discs such as Dark Knight.

My question is am i hearing Dolby True HD when using optical out or can this sound format only be accessed when using HDMI?
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post #88 of 1693 Old 01-02-2009, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noddy347 View Post

I have a Samsung 1500 BR player and i am using the optical out to my Rotel 1056 receiver.

Now i have noticed a huge improvment in surround sound when watching dolby true hd discs such as Dark Knight.

My question is am i hearing Dolby True HD when using optical out or can this sound format only be accessed when using HDMI?

No, you aren't getting TrueHD. That takes HDMI. Or, the player can do the decoding for output over multichannel analog.

But, the Dolby Digital tracks on BD are encoded at higher bit rates than you get on DVD and they sound great. Some say they are just as good as lossless. The same goes for dts-MA. When you select a lossless track, the player outputs the DTS core, which is encoded at about twice the rate that's normally used on DVDs.
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post #89 of 1693 Old 01-03-2009, 08:21 AM
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I have my new Sony BDP S550 connected to my new B&K Ref 70. If I use the analog outputs from the player to the processor, I get 7.1 channels (I'm using the Blu-Ray "Rush Hour 3" which is encoded with DTS HD MA 7.1). If I use the HDMI connection for audio, I only get 5.1 channels. I wonder if the player is actually sending the full 7.1 channels over PCM?
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post #90 of 1693 Old 01-03-2009, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by dlary View Post

I have my new Sony BDP S550 connected to my new B&K Ref 70. If I use the analog outputs from the player to the processor, I get 7.1 channels (I'm using the Blu-Ray "Rush Hour 3" which is encoded with DTS HD MA 7.1). If I use the HDMI connection for audio, I only get 5.1 channels. I wonder if the player is actually sending the full 7.1 channels over PCM?

That's a good question, I'm not actually sure if you can send 7.1 over PCM. It could also be a limitation in your B&K that it won't handle the extra two channels as PCM data.

Does your B&K decode DTS-MA on its own? You could try bitstreaming to it.
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