Official Blu-Ray Player Audio Setup Thread - All Audio Questions Go Here - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 1694 Old 01-12-2009, 10:33 AM
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Doesn't sound like a problem to me!

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post #122 of 1694 Old 01-12-2009, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergan View Post

On EVERY BD-disc that has DTS-HD MA, my receiver says "Multich 7.1" regardless if the movie is 5.1 or 7.1.
I get sound out of every speaker (and no, I don´t have the Pro LogicIIx turned on) as if there was a 7.1 soundtrack.

If I try a Dolby TrueHD 5.1 soundtrack or PCM 5.1 it says "Multich 5.1".
If there is a 7.1 PCM soundtrack as in 3:10 to Yuma it says "Multich 7.1".

Does anyone recognize this "problem"?

The BD35/55 players have a footnote explaining that Panasonic "amplifies" DTS 5.1 and 6.1 tracks on BD to 7.1 per DTS specifications. Amplification means the surrounds are duplicated to the rears and levels are adjusted accordingly. It would appear the BD50 has the same "feature". Is there any note in the manual similar to what's in the BD35/55 manual?
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post #123 of 1694 Old 01-12-2009, 02:20 PM
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Hi All! I have posted in blu ray 2500 section, and didnt get a good solution yet. Hoping posting in audio section will help my chances. I have a samsung bd 2550 hooked into a denon 2805 through ext in's (analog) and the sub cable coming out of the subwoofer pre out to the sub. (tried both line in and sub in on sub) getting nothing from sub.
I've read everything I could find on hear the last few days, and believe I'm set up right. Speakers in player settings to small, lfe automatically on, receiver set to lfe, but still nothing from sub.
If i connect the sub cable direct from the bd subwoofer anaolg out I get sub bass, but doesnt seem clean. (12" klipsch sub) i have 2 fronts, center and surrounds, no backs yet.
Is it a receiver setting, (for pre outs?) , bd player setting? or am I hooking up the sub wrong? Please help.
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post #124 of 1694 Old 01-12-2009, 05:17 PM
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The sub gets connected to the pre-out jack. Your sub works with digital sources, yes? If so, it's connected properly to the AVR.

You've connected the sub output of the player to the EXT. IN jack just to the left of the center channel input?

Have you done the +15db boost for the sub? p38 of the manual.

If you plug the player output for one of the front speakers into the sub input on the receiver, do you get bass?
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post #125 of 1694 Old 01-12-2009, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Doesn't sound like a problem to me!

Thats why I wrote "problem".
But I find it very strange that my receiver gets a PCM 7.1 Multichannel track when the movie is suppose to be 5.1.

If you have 7.1 speakers and have a BD50, please try to decode the audio in the player and then send it over HDMI as LPCM to see if you get the same result as me.
Remember that I only get 7.1 on DTS-HD MA tracks that are suppose to be 5.1, not Dolby TrueHD or PCM 5.1.
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post #126 of 1694 Old 01-12-2009, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergan View Post

Thats why I wrote "problem".
But I find it very strange that my receiver gets a PCM 7.1 Multichannel track when the movie is suppose to be 5.1.

If you have 7.1 speakers and have a BD50, please try to decode the audio in the player and then send it over HDMI as LPCM to see if you get the same result as me.
Remember that I only get 7.1 on DTS-HD MA tracks that are suppose to be 5.1, not Dolby TrueHD or PCM 5.1.

You could probably get an immediate answer to your question by posting or searching in the BD50 thread.
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post #127 of 1694 Old 01-12-2009, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergan View Post

Thats why I wrote "problem".
But I find it very strange that my receiver gets a PCM 7.1 Multichannel track when the movie is suppose to be 5.1.

If you have 7.1 speakers and have a BD50, please try to decode the audio in the player and then send it over HDMI as LPCM to see if you get the same result as me.
Remember that I only get 7.1 on DTS-HD MA tracks that are suppose to be 5.1, not Dolby TrueHD or PCM 5.1.

Here's what p27 of the manual says: "[BD-V]: If the original audio is 5.1ch DTS-HD or DTS, the remapping
function is activated to divide it to 7.1ch." A little obtuse. (The BD35/55 manual describes it more clearly.) But, it certainly appears that functionality was also included in the BD50. Panasonic engineering in Japan used the term re-mapping in association with the BD55's amplification of DTS 5.1 to 7.1.

Did you miss my previous post?

You may want to confirm this in the BD50 thread.
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post #128 of 1694 Old 01-13-2009, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Here's what p27 of the manual says: "[BD-V]: If the original audio is 5.1ch DTS-HD or DTS, the remapping
function is activated to divide it to 7.1ch." A little obtuse. (The BD35/55 manual describes it more clearly.) But, it certainly appears that functionality was also included in the BD50. Panasonic engineering in Japan used the term re-mapping in association with the BD55's amplification of DTS 5.1 to 7.1.

Did you miss my previous post?

You may want to confirm this in the BD50 thread.

Thank you!

I missed your earlier post totally and it seems that I´ve missed this in the manual as well.
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post #129 of 1694 Old 01-14-2009, 09:39 AM
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I'm probably just confused, being new to this HT business. Here is my setup:

TV: Sony Bravia KDL-46W4100
AVR: Sony HT-DDWG700 (this is a STR-KG700 receiver w/ bundled speakers)
BD: Sony BDP S350

I've got the BD connected w/ HDMI to the TV, and the TV digital optical audio out connected to the AVG optical in. (The AVG doesn't have support HDMI.) (I also have a cable box and mac mini connected via HDMI to the TV)

When I play a DVD on the BDP, everything is great and I get Dolby 5.1 sound displayed on the AVR console.

But when I play a BD on the BDP, I see 'PCM 48' on the AVR, which from my attempt at reading the manual, seems to mean that it's compressed down to 2ch audio.

I changed a setting on the BDP to output bitstream, and this improved things slightly: for example watching the Band of Brothers BD, when it shows the disc title screens I see Dolby Digital on the AVR, but then it goes back to PCM 48 when it plays an episode.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding things and this is what's supposed to be happening, but it seems like I'm getting better sound quality from the DVD than the BD which seems wrong.

Is the BD trying to output some HD Dolby which my AVR doesn't understand and thus reverts to some downmix? (Or because the TV is in the middle, is it the TV receiving the HD Dolby and downmixing to the AVR over optical out?)

Would it help to have the audio connection direct from the BDP to the AVR? (But then I'll need to multiplex the two inputs somehow, since I also want digital optical from the TV for when I'm watching the cable box - is that possible??)
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post #130 of 1694 Old 01-14-2009, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patricksurry View Post

I'm probably just confused, being new to this HT business. Here is my setup:

TV: Sony Bravia KDL-46W4100
AVR: Sony HT-DDWG700 (this is a STR-KG700 receiver w/ bundled speakers)
BD: Sony BDP S350

I've got the BD connected w/ HDMI to the TV, and the TV digital optical audio out connected to the AVG optical in. (The AVG doesn't have support HDMI.) (I also have a cable box and mac mini connected via HDMI to the TV)

When I play a DVD on the BDP, everything is great and I get Dolby 5.1 sound displayed on the AVR console.

But when I play a BD on the BDP, I see 'PCM 48' on the AVR, which from my attempt at reading the manual, seems to mean that it's compressed down to 2ch audio.

I changed a setting on the BDP to output bitstream, and this improved things slightly: for example watching the Band of Brothers BD, when it shows the disc title screens I see Dolby Digital on the AVR, but then it goes back to PCM 48 when it plays an episode.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding things and this is what's supposed to be happening, but it seems like I'm getting better sound quality from the DVD than the BD which seems wrong.

Is the BD trying to output some HD Dolby which my AVR doesn't understand and thus reverts to some downmix? (Or because the TV is in the middle, is it the TV receiving the HD Dolby and downmixing to the AVR over optical out?)

Would it help to have the audio connection direct from the BDP to the AVR? (But then I'll need to multiplex the two inputs somehow, since I also want digital optical from the TV for when I'm watching the cable box - is that possible??)

Most TVs won't pass through surround sound from external components. They only do stereo PCM. So, you need to run your S350 audio direct to the AVR instead of routing it through the TV. If you had a BD55, you could use the player's analog outputs, which would also solve your optical input bottleneck. But, since you need to use optical, I suggest getting a switch. Monoprice.com them at reasonable prices.
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post #131 of 1694 Old 01-14-2009, 03:21 PM
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Can someone help me with this?
I just bought a Denon 2309ci. I own a PS3. When I Watch a BD or HDdvd( A2 ) my receiver says Muti Channel and NOT Dolby TruHD ect. In what set up will it say Dolby TrueHD ?
Thanks

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post #132 of 1694 Old 01-14-2009, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricST View Post

Can someone help me with this?
I just bought a Denon 2309ci. I own a PS3. When I Watch a BD or HDdvd( A2 ) my receiver says Muti Channel and NOT Dolby TruHD ect. In what set up will it say Dolby TrueHD ?
Thanks

From the FAQ right here, which you should read:

Why doesn't the Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD-Master Audio light on my AVR come on when I'm playing BDs with these lossless audio formats?

Because the PS3 is doing the decoding itself of these advanced audio formats, the AVR is always receiving multichannel Linear Pulse Code Modulation (LPCM) from the PS3 when playing such BDs (when connected via HDMI). The AVR may have an indicator showing that the input is PCM, LPCM, MLPCM, or something similar. The AVR would only activate the Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD-MA light if it were doing the decoding. It would only be doing this if the source device were outputting these advanced audio formats as a bitstream and the PS3 is not capable of doing this. The end result in sound quality is in most cases essentially the same (depending on the specific capabilities of the AVR) whether the decoding is being done by the PS3 vs. having the AVR do the decoding.

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post #133 of 1694 Old 01-14-2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricST View Post

Can someone help me with this?
I just bought a Denon 2309ci. I own a PS3. When I Watch a BD or HDdvd( A2 ) my receiver says Muti Channel and NOT Dolby TruHD ect. In what set up will it say Dolby TrueHD ?
Thanks

How do you have this cabled up? HDMI from PS3 to Denon to TV? Or HDMI from PS3 to TV, and optical from PS3 to Denon? The latter won't allow TrueHD. The former should.
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post #134 of 1694 Old 01-14-2009, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HappyFunBoater View Post

How do you have this cabled up? HDMI from PS3 to Denon to TV? Or HDMI from PS3 to TV, and optical from PS3 to Denon? The latter won't allow TrueHD. The former should.

See the previous post. PS3s don't bitstream the HD codecs. So, his receiver will never say TrueHD no matter how he is cabled.
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post #135 of 1694 Old 01-14-2009, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

See the previous post. PS3s don't bitstream the HD codecs. So, his receiver will never say TrueHD no matter how he is cabled.

Thanks. I missed that post. I was mostly trying to answer no to the optical configuration and was trying to punt on the HDMI configuration. Thanks for the info.
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post #136 of 1694 Old 01-14-2009, 06:41 PM
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SO should I buy a standalone BD player ?
Iv been looking at the Panny BD35k.

May the Force be with you.
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post #137 of 1694 Old 01-14-2009, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricST View Post

SO should I buy a standalone BD player ?
Iv been looking at the Panny BD35k.

Only if seeing TrueHD on the display is important to you. The audio quality is the same regardless of whether the track is decoded in the player or the AVR.
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post #138 of 1694 Old 01-14-2009, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Only if seeing TrueHD on the display is important to you. The audio quality is the same regardless of whether the track is decoded in the player or the AVR.

Thank you

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post #139 of 1694 Old 01-20-2009, 04:28 PM
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I am getting ready to hook up my Sony 550 to my old Onkyo receiver through the 5.1 multi-channel audio inputs. I have a lot of standard RCA cables, but the best cables I have are the component (video) cables that I used with my previous DVD player. Since these are RCA-style also, can I use them for audio or is there a reason not to do that?
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post #140 of 1694 Old 01-20-2009, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bjems View Post

I am getting ready to hook up my Sony 550 to my old Onkyo receiver through the 5.1 multi-channel audio inputs. I have a lot of standard RCA cables, but the best cables I have are the component (video) cables that I used with my previous DVD player. Since these are RCA-style also, can I use them for audio or is there a reason not to do that?

They will be fine.

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post #141 of 1694 Old 01-21-2009, 10:38 AM
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Hi guys, newbie to the BR area. I am upgrading my projector and thinking about buying a BR player. Have an older non-HDMI receiver (Pioneer 1014TX). Need a confirmation - If I use the analog audio outputs to the Pioneer, I cannot use any of the DSPs of the Pioneer - is that correct ? So, the only surround experience I get is what is already coded on the discs ? I will eventually decide whether the DSP is more important to me than the difference between toslink and lossless. Thanx in advance !
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post #142 of 1694 Old 01-21-2009, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bharat-N View Post

Hi guys, newbie to the BR area. I am upgrading my projector and thinking about buying a BR player. Have an older non-HDMI receiver (Pioneer 1014TX). Need a confirmation - If I use the analog audio outputs to the Pioneer, I cannot use any of the DSPs of the Pioneer - is that correct ? So, the only surround experience I get is what is already coded on the discs ? I will eventually decide whether the DSP is more important to me than the difference between toslink and lossless. Thanx in advance !

Yes, that is correct. The Pioneer would need to redigitize the analog inputs in order to do any processing. Only a handful of fairly pricey receivers do that.
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post #143 of 1694 Old 01-22-2009, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricST View Post

SO should I buy a standalone BD player ?
Iv been looking at the Panny BD35k.

I say yes as I have a PS3 that won't bitstream and I found the bitstream audio from my BD55 to be superior to my PS3 PCM. Many people who have the equipment to do A/B test between bitstream and PCM have reported the same findings. There are people who say the otherwise but they are mostly speaking from a "in theory, it should have no difference" point of view. Try it out and decide for yourself.
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post #144 of 1694 Old 01-22-2009, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by darklord700 View Post

I say yes as I have a PS3 that won't bitstream and I found the bitstream audio from my BD55 to be superior to my PS3 PCM. Many people who have the equipment to do A/B test between bitstream and PCM have reported the same findings. There are people who say the otherwise but they are mostly speaking from a "in theory, it should have no difference" point of view. Try it out and decide for yourself.

It's more than theorists. I think you'll find most owners in the PS3 threads don't have the same problems you describe. I'm not saying you are wrong in your experience. But, I believe you are overstating the issue.
There are studios that use PS3s as their reference players. And, given the large numbers of PS3s being used as BD players, I think there would be a few posts with properly sourced explanations as to why the PS3 inherently outputs inferior LPCM, if that were actually the case.
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post #145 of 1694 Old 01-22-2009, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

It's more than theorists. I think you'll find most owners in the PS3 threads don't have the same problems you describe. I'm not saying you are wrong in your experience. But, I believe you are overstating the issue.

I wouldn't say PS3 has PCM output problems, just that bitstream is better. Something like that is hard to quantify, my wife prefers bitstream but wouldn't mind the listening to PCM one bit. I, on the other hand, am willing to spend $300 to get the BD55 for just its bitstream ability.

When you have a chance to do a real life comparison, I'm interested to hear what you think the difference is worth.

To further quantify the difference, I had my wife put the BD55 into either bitstream or PCM without me knowing and I can tell you what track I was listening too. This is far more difficult to do that the A/B test and it proves to me that no placebo is involved. The "tell" I used was that PCM tends to put everything up front in the sound field with little seperation. Granted, I did this test on a song from Sweeny Todd which I have listened 20 times in the last few days and I don't think I can do it on a disc I have never heard before.

I managed to identify the transportation method used 3 out of 3 before my wife was fed up doing this and told me to get a life
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post #146 of 1694 Old 01-22-2009, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by darklord700 View Post

I managed to identify the transportation method used 3 out of 3 before my wife was fed up doing this and told me to get a life

Get back to us when you can tell us how you level-matched the two versions to within 1db SPL, and ascertained that your AVR was post-processing them identically.

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post #147 of 1694 Old 01-22-2009, 09:57 PM
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Get back to us when you can tell us how you level-matched the two versions to within 1db SPL, and ascertained that your AVR was post-processing them identically.

I'm not willing to spend the extra effort and time on this but my method was sound. Mind you I wasn't doing an A/B comparison test of which the sound level could influence the decision.

Instead, I identified which sound track it was (bitstream or PCM) without hearing the next one 3 out of 3 times. Chances of me guessing right is 0.5X0.5X0.5=0.125.
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post #148 of 1694 Old 01-22-2009, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklord700 View Post

I'm not willing to spend the extra effort and time on this but my method was sound. Mind you I wasn't doing an A/B comparison test of which the sound level could influence the decision.

Instead, I identified which sound track it was (bitstream or PCM) without hearing the next one 3 out of 3 times. Chances of me guessing right is 0.5X0.5X0.5=0.125.

It's pretty well established that audio "differences" between PCM and bitstream are due to level differences and post processing on the AVR end.

If the levels were matched up and post processing was turned off it's highly unlikely you could tell the difference in a double blind test in which neither you nor the person switching sources knew which was bitstream and which was PCM.

But hey, don't take our word for it, that's just what thousands of professionals say.
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post #149 of 1694 Old 01-22-2009, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darklord700 View Post

I'm not willing to spend the extra effort and time on this but my method was sound. Mind you I wasn't doing an A/B comparison test of which the sound level could influence the decision.

Instead, I identified which sound track it was (bitstream or PCM) without hearing the next one 3 out of 3 times. Chances of me guessing right is 0.5X0.5X0.5=0.125.

You keep missing the point. I'm convinced you have a problem with your PS3. But, that's most likely something unique to your equipment and the way you have it set up.

If you want to make a case that bitstreaming is better than PCM from a PS3, then you need to be considerably more rigorous. If you aren't willing to do that, please give it a rest.
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post #150 of 1694 Old 01-22-2009, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

It's pretty well established that audio "differences" between PCM and bitstream are due to level differences and post processing on the AVR end.

If the levels were matched up and post processing was turned off it's highly unlikely you could tell the difference in a double blind test in which neither you nor the person switching sources knew which was bitstream and which was PCM.

Just devised another plan to test. Go into my BD55 audio manual and keep toggling between PCM/bitstream without looking many times, I don't know what method it ends up being.

I successfully identified 4 out of 4 of my favorite Sweeny Tood tune being bitstream or PCM. However, on Dark Knight the opening scene, I got 4 out of 6 correct.

Whether it is because of post processing done by the AVR or not is not too important to me but the fact that I prefer one to the other. If AVR can post process bitstream but not PCM, so be it, my test completely ruled out placebo effect.
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