Official Blu-Ray Player Audio Setup Thread - All Audio Questions Go Here - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1693 Old 01-27-2009, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

In-player decoding is preferable because Blu-ray supports secondary audio (for features like PIP commentaries) which only work with in-player decoding. Letting the player decode and send multichannel LPCM will provide the maximum audio benefits of Blu-ray. The receiver will indicate Multichannel LPCM because that's what it's getting from the player.

There should be a setting in the player that will let you bitstream audio to the receiver, so it can be decoded there. This will give you your little indicator lights on the receiver, but you will lose your secondary audio capability and gain nothing in terms of audio quality.

My setup;
Panasonic BD35 Blu-ray player > optical spdif > Yamaha DSP-A1 amp.

Testing with 'The Dark Knight' (TDK) BD, 'True HD' selected on the rempote;

- Bitstream or PCM out - no change,
- 'Secondary Audio' (SA) off - huuuge improvement.

With the SA on, TDK seemed to be dull and lifeless. With the SA off, the audio is improved 300%, dynamics and surround come to life. I have never heard my M&K sub complain so easily if I am not careful with the SA off, such is the improvement in the dynamic range. Volume adjustment does not change these results.

The BD35 OSD says 'SA off will result in original audio being passed' (or some thing similar).
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post #182 of 1693 Old 01-27-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

My setup;
Panasonic BD35 Blu-ray player > optical spdif > Yamaha DSP-A1 amp.

Testing with 'The Dark Knight' (TDK) BD, 'True HD' selected on the rempote;

- Bitstream or PCM out - no change,
- 'Secondary Audio' (SA) off - huuuge improvement.

With the SA on, TDK seemed to be dull and lifeless. With the SA off, the audio is improved 300%, dynamics and surround come to life. I have never heard my M&K sub complain so easily if I am not careful with the SA off, such is the improvement in the dynamic range. Volume adjustment does not change these results.

The BD35 OSD says 'SA off will result in original audio being passed' (or some thing similar).

While it's true that some players won't use lossless audio for the primary track when secondary audio is enabled, that doesn't change the fact that you still have to use in-player decoding to get secondary audio at all. It just means you have to switch a setting in the player setup (which certainly sucks, and is another plus for the PS3 which supports lossless+secondary transparently).

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post #183 of 1693 Old 01-27-2009, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

If your goal is to spend a lot of money unnecessarily, the audio industry is right there ready to serve!

You got that right. Thanks for your help.
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post #184 of 1693 Old 01-27-2009, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

My setup;
Panasonic BD35 Blu-ray player > optical spdif > Yamaha DSP-A1 amp.

Testing with 'The Dark Knight' (TDK) BD, 'True HD' selected on the rempote;

- Bitstream or PCM out - no change,
- 'Secondary Audio' (SA) off - huuuge improvement.

While I would certainly not dispute what you heard, I am perplexed, nonetheless.

Bitstream over optical produces discrete 5.1 while PCM over optical produces stereo. The outputs should be substantially different, yet you describe "no change".

With secondary audio, you describe a "huuuge improvement". But, what would account for that? With optical, the player will bitstream the same DD 5.1 track regardless of the secondary audio setting.

What you report would make sense to me if you were using HDMI instead of optical. In that case, the bitstream and PCM settings would produce the same decoded output of the TrueHD track. And, there might very well be a difference when using secondary audio because of the change from a lossless to a lossy track. But, with optical, what you report seems odd.
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post #185 of 1693 Old 01-27-2009, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

While I would certainly not dispute what you heard, I am perplexed, nonetheless.

Bitstream over optical produces discrete 5.1 while PCM over optical produces stereo. The outputs should be substantially different, yet you describe "no change".

With secondary audio, you describe a "huuuge improvement". But, what would account for that? With optical, the player will bitstream the same DD 5.1 track regardless of the secondary audio setting.

What you report would make sense to me if you were using HDMI instead of optical. In that case, the bitstream and PCM settings would produce the same decoded output of the TrueHD track. And, there might very well be a difference when using secondary audio because of the change from a lossless to a lossy track. But, with optical, what you report seems odd.

Now I am doubting my memory. I will again compare the Bitstream vs PCM this Saturday when the missus is at work. - and will post the results.

Why the huuuge improvement with the secondary audio off ? - I dunno. But the improvement is very evident.

Perhaps the 'ol DSP-A1 is playing a high-bitrate audio track ? But, but, 'Tru HD' was selected, as displayed on the TV.

Panasonic do advise that turning the secondary audio will result in 'the original audio being available' or something similar ** - I am typing this on the bus home from work.

I will do a through retest this Sat. when the noise police is at work.

I will add - I had already set all the BD35 setup options to 'bit stream out' before I decided to turn the secondary audio off. So, I have not tried the SA off with PCM out.

It may not be right, but I am very impressed with the current results. Note, with the secondary audio on, there was substantially less rear surround information and only a fraction of the dynamic range and clarity.

** I will post a screen shot of this message in an hour or so.
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post #186 of 1693 Old 01-28-2009, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

Perhaps the 'ol DSP-A1 is playing a high-bitrate audio track ? But, but, 'Tru HD' was selected, as displayed on the TV.

With optical, the best you will get is DD 5.1 at a 640kbps bit rate. You can't send TrueHD over optical and the player substitutes an embedded lossy version when you select the TrueHD track on the disc.

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Panasonic do advise that turning the secondary audio will result in 'the original audio being available' or something similar ** - I am typing this on the bus home from work.

That only happens for lossless transmission over HDMI or analog. With optical, you never get the original audio. You get the same lossy DD 5.1 track with secondary audio turned on or off.
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post #187 of 1693 Old 01-28-2009, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

With optical, the best you will get is DD 5.1 at a 640kbps bit rate. You can't send TrueHD over optical and the player substitutes an embedded lossy version when you select the TrueHD track on the disc.

That only happens for lossless transmission over HDMI or analog. With optical, you never get the original audio. You get the same lossy DD 5.1 track with secondary audio turned on or off.

The screen shots attached show that the "BD-Video Secondary Audio" is set to "Off"".

I suggest everyone try this to confirm my results (or otherwise).

I am definitely hearing vastly superior audio over optical, when the Secondary Audio is Off. The difference is astounding on 'The Dark Knight'.

I will do some more tests on Sat, including some noted A/V synch error tests.
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post #188 of 1693 Old 01-28-2009, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox P McCloud View Post

what do I do to get my player to internally decode DolbyHD and DTS-HD MA, etc? Do I need to set "digital output" to a specific setting (PCM, bitstream re-encode, or bitstream audiophile) or will it just do this automatically?

Set the output to PCM.

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Also, what speaker size should I set my speakers to? I currently have a JBL SCS145.5S speaker-system.

Your speaker manual should have a recommendation. But, unless they are full range speakers capable of handling the low bass frequencies on their own, set them to small.
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post #189 of 1693 Old 01-29-2009, 10:50 AM
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First of all, I'd like to thank all of the members who contribute easy to understand info for some of us who need help. Here is my situation.

My eq is, Sony Bravia 40inch, Sony 550 Blu Ray player, Sony regular DTS/Dolby Digital Reciver..............

I will take delivery on a Sony ES Receiver very soon, so all my issues should be resolved by just using HDMI cables...

Anyway, I have my Blu Ray player direct to TV through HDMI, Optical out of player to receiver.................Thing is: I get a slight delay in sound from the receiver....The TV is slightly ahead of the receiver when producing sound from movies etc? It causes an echo effect..................This never happened when I just had a 1080 upscale dvd player (hooked up same way, HDMI to TV, optical out to receiver)..

Does anyone have any solutions?...............

Also, if anyone has a Sony 550, should I use the internal processing of the HD audio or let the ES receiver do it when it arrives? IF I let the receiver do it, how do I turn the processing options off on the Player?

Thanks for any advice you guys can throw my way............Much appreciated.
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post #190 of 1693 Old 01-29-2009, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseljkt View Post

First of all, I'd like to thank all of the members who contribute easy to understand info for some of us who need help. Here is my situation.

My eq is, Sony Bravia 40inch, Sony 550 Blu Ray player, Sony regular DTS/Dolby Digital Reciver..............

I will take delivery on a Sony ES Receiver very soon, so all my issues should be resolved by just using HDMI cables...

Anyway, I have my Blu Ray player direct to TV through HDMI, Optical out of player to receiver.................Thing is: I get a slight delay in sound from the receiver....The TV is slightly ahead of the receiver when producing sound from movies etc? It causes an echo effect..................This never happened when I just had a 1080 upscale dvd player (hooked up same way, HDMI to TV, optical out to receiver)..

Does anyone have any solutions?...............

Also, if anyone has a Sony 550, should I use the internal processing of the HD audio or let the ES receiver do it when it arrives? IF I let the receiver do it, how do I turn the processing options off on the Player?

Thanks for any advice you guys can throw my way............Much appreciated.

1) Turn off the TV speakers. This will become moot when you get your new receiver anyway, because you'll be connecting the HDMI right to the receiver and not letting the receiver pass audio through to the TV (because with most receivers that will kill the surround sound).

2) I recommend using the player's decoders for HD audio. There is no benefit to using the receiver's decoders, but there is a drawback in that you can't use Blu-ray's secondary audio features. Set the player to LPCM output via HDMI.

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post #191 of 1693 Old 01-29-2009, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseljkt View Post

First of all, I'd like to thank all of the members who contribute easy to understand info for some of us who need help. Here is my situation.

My eq is, Sony Bravia 40inch, Sony 550 Blu Ray player, Sony regular DTS/Dolby Digital Reciver..............

I will take delivery on a Sony ES Receiver very soon, so all my issues should be resolved by just using HDMI cables...

Anyway, I have my Blu Ray player direct to TV through HDMI, Optical out of player to receiver.................Thing is: I get a slight delay in sound from the receiver....The TV is slightly ahead of the receiver when producing sound from movies etc? It causes an echo effect..................This never happened when I just had a 1080 upscale dvd player (hooked up same way, HDMI to TV, optical out to receiver)..

Does anyone have any solutions?...............

Also, if anyone has a Sony 550, should I use the internal processing of the HD audio or let the ES receiver do it when it arrives? IF I let the receiver do it, how do I turn the processing options off on the Player?

Thanks for any advice you guys can throw my way............Much appreciated.

It is a really really bad idea to use TV speakers in conjunction with standard surround sound speaker system.

For one thing, you want timbre match between your left/center/right channels and this cannot be accomplished when using TV speakers. Failure to timbre match will result in all sorts of anomalies, such as perceived echo, etc, as a result of having different tonal qualities from the different front speakers.
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post #192 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 08:28 AM
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Hello,

Hi Have a Samsung 52" a630 1080p LCD 120hz tv
Sony blue ray s-350
and a POS phillips HTS3400/37B DVD home theater receiver. (This was my girlfriends and I didn't buy it.) Here is the like to the receiver:

[url="http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=HTS3400/37B&scy=US&slg=AEN&grp=HOME_ENTERTAINMENT_GR&cat=DVD_HOME_THEATER_CA&sct=HOME_THEATER_SU"]

The Samsung and the blue ray are hooked up to HDMI 3 on the TV and it looks great.

On the TV out in back of the TV I have the red and white audio cables going into the back of the Phillips receiver and I have 5 speakers connected to the receiver.

I get good sound when I turn down the volume on the tv and use the sound from the receiver, but my question is.......

Is there a better way for me to get sound from the blue ray to my receiver?
I'm wondering if I should have some connection from the blue ray to the Phillips receiver?

Thanks!
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post #193 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 08:39 AM
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Are there any connections on the back of the recvr? An rca audio in or toslink optical in?
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post #194 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 08:44 AM
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According to the pdf I just looked at online I believe the connections are:

Connectivity
Front / Side connections: Headphone out
Other connections: AUX in, TV in (audio, cinch), Line out, Digital coaxial out, Composite video (CVBS) out, Component Video out Interlaced, S-Video out, FM Antenna, AM Antenna, Easy-Fit speaker connectors
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post #195 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdzx111 View Post

Hello,

Hi Have a Samsung 52" a630 1080p LCD 120hz tv
Sony blue ray s-350
and a POS phillips HTS3400/37B DVD home theater receiver. (This was my girlfriends and I didn't buy it.) Here is the like to the receiver:

[url="http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=HTS3400/37B&scy=US&slg=AEN&grp=HOME_ENTERTAINMENT_GR&cat=DVD_HOME_THEATER_CA&sct=HOME_THEATER_SU"]

The Samsung and the blue ray are hooked up to HDMI 3 on the TV and it looks great.

On the TV out in back of the TV I have the red and white audio cables going into the back of the Phillips receiver and I have 5 speakers connected to the receiver.

I get good sound when I turn down the volume on the tv and use the sound from the receiver, but my question is.......

Is there a better way for me to get sound from the blue ray to my receiver?
I'm wondering if I should have some connection from the blue ray to the Phillips receiver?

Thanks!

Welcome to the forum. Please post in the following thread. LINK
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post #196 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 08:55 AM
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Hello,

Hi Have a Samsung 52" a630 1080p LCD 120hz tv
Sony blue ray s-350
and a POS phillips HTS3400/37B DVD home theater receiver. (This was my girlfriends and I didn't buy it.) Here is the like to the receiver:

[url="http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=HTS3400/37B&scy=US&slg=AEN&grp=HOME_ENTERTAINMENT_GR&cat=DVD_HOME_TH EATER_CA&sct=HOME_THEATER_SU"]

The Samsung and the blue ray are hooked up to HDMI 3 on the TV and it looks great.

On the TV out in back of the TV I have the red and white audio cables going into the back of the Phillips receiver and I have 5 speakers connected to the receiver.

I get good sound when I turn down the volume on the tv and use the sound from the receiver, but my question is.......

Is there a better way for me to get sound from the blue ray to my receiver?
I'm wondering if I should have some connection from the blue ray to the Phillips receiver?

I believe my connections on the back of the receiver are:

Connectivity
Front / Side connections: Headphone out
Other connections: AUX in, TV in (audio, cinch), Line out, Digital coaxial out, Composite video (CVBS) out, Component Video out Interlaced, S-Video out, FM Antenna, AM Antenna, Easy-Fit speaker connectors

Thanks!
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post #197 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdzx111 View Post

Hello,

Hi Have a Samsung 52" a630 1080p LCD 120hz tv
Sony blue ray s-350
and a POS phillips HTS3400/37B DVD home theater receiver. (This was my girlfriends and I didn't buy it.) Here is the like to the receiver:

[url="http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=HTS3400/37B&scy=US&slg=AEN&grp=HOME_ENTERTAINMENT_GR&cat=DVD_HOME_TH EATER_CA&sct=HOME_THEATER_SU"]

The Samsung and the blue ray are hooked up to HDMI 3 on the TV and it looks great.

On the TV out in back of the TV I have the red and white audio cables going into the back of the Phillips receiver and I have 5 speakers connected to the receiver.

I get good sound when I turn down the volume on the tv and use the sound from the receiver, but my question is.......

Is there a better way for me to get sound from the blue ray to my receiver?
I'm wondering if I should have some connection from the blue ray to the Phillips receiver?

I believe my connections on the back of the receiver are:

Connectivity
Front / Side connections: Headphone out
Other connections: AUX in, TV in (audio, cinch), Line out, Digital coaxial out, Composite video (CVBS) out, Component Video out Interlaced, S-Video out, FM Antenna, AM Antenna, Easy-Fit speaker connectors

Thanks!

The diagram for the Philips is a bit confusing as in some diagrams it shows it as having a coaxial IN and other diagrams show it as having a coaxial OUT. Which is it?

Ideally you would connect the digital audio from the BD player directly to the Philips. This means running an RCA from the digital coaxial output on the BD player to the digital input on the Philips machine.

If, however, you don't have a digital in on the Philips you are sort of stuck with the way you already have it set up.

Also, as previously discussed, there is no reason to use your TV speakers at the same time you are using the speakers from a surround sound system. If anything it will actually make the sound quality worse.
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post #198 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 10:10 AM
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Yes I turn down the volume on the TV when I'm using the Phillips receiver. I'll have to look on the back for the receiver for the connection you're referring to.

I'll have to look for the RCA IN connection later today.

Why is that better?

Thank you!
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post #199 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 10:15 AM
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Two questions.

If my PS3 supports can handle lossless audio but my speaker system doesn't say it does, will the PS3 still passover the audio to the speaker system and the speaker system will play it, it just won't uncompress it itself?

If the above case works

What happens if you have a 5.1 system but select 7.1 lossless audio? Would it play 5.1 lossless audio?

Thank you!
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post #200 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdzx111 View Post

Yes I turn down the volume on the TV when I'm using the Phillips receiver. I'll have to look on the back for the receiver for the connection you're referring to.

I'll have to look for the RCA IN connection later today.

Why is that better?

Thank you!

1. The RCA connection is DIGITAL instead of analog.

2. The digital connection can carry 5.1 surround sound. When you hook up the red and white analog audio connections you are only getting 2 channel stereo sound, which is then matrixed to all 5 speakers.
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post #201 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 10:23 AM
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Thank you! I'm trying to find a pic of the back of the receiver online, but so far, no luck.
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post #202 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 12:14 PM
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I see I have coaxial digital out on the back of the receiver for whatever reason. So I'm guessing because that doesn't say IN, I can't get the proper cable to plug in into the Sony BD-S350?

Thanks!
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post #203 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdzx111 View Post

I see I have coaxial digital out on the back of the receiver for whatever reason. So I'm guessing because that doesn't say IN, I can't get the proper cable to plug in into the Sony BD-S350?

Thanks!

Ya, unfortunately I think you're stuck. Start saving your pennies for an HDMI equipped receiver and some speakers. Will make a 1000% improvement in the sound quality of Blu-Ray movies for you.

Onkyo has some budget models with HDMI switching that are great for the price.
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post #204 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 12:51 PM
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What I don't understand about HDMI on the audio receiver is the following:

I have 3 HDMI ports on my Samsung TV. The first is for my Comcast cable. The second is for my XBOX 360 and the third is for my Sony S-350 Blue Ray. So how does HDMI connect to a receiver when the blue ray only has 1 HDMI port on it?

Thanks!
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post #205 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdzx111 View Post

What I don't understand about HDMI on the audio receiver is the following:

I have 3 HDMI ports on my Samsung TV. The first is for my Comcast cable. The second is for my XBOX 360 and the third is for my Sony S-350 Blue Ray. So how does HDMI connect to a receiver when the blue ray only has 1 HDMI port on it?

Thanks!

Simple. You run ALL of your HDMI sources into your receiver and then run the single out on the receiver for your TV.

This gives you digital sound from all of your sources direct into your receiver, and you will still get basic 2 channel sound to the TV if you need it via the HDMI monitor output on the receiver.
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post #206 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Simple. You run ALL of your HDMI sources into your receiver and then run the single out on the receiver for your TV.

This gives you digital sound from all of your sources direct into your receiver, and you will still get basic 2 channel sound to the TV if you need it via the HDMI monitor output on the receiver.

Look at the back of this budget Onkyo unit;

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR506...3349013&sr=8-2

It has 3 HDMI inputs and one output, you run your xbox, blu-ray and cable box into those 3 inputs and then run the monitor output on to the TV. You don't need to use every HDMI input on the TV.
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post #207 of 1693 Old 01-30-2009, 01:14 PM
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Thank you very much for the info!

Now I have a new toy to buy.
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post #208 of 1693 Old 01-31-2009, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Look at the back of this budget Onkyo unit;

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR506...3349013&sr=8-2

It has 3 HDMI inputs and one output, you run your xbox, blu-ray and cable box into those 3 inputs and then run the monitor output on to the TV. You don't need to use every HDMI input on the TV.

Why would you recommend a receiver that has HDMI pass-through?

All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Movies

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post #209 of 1693 Old 01-31-2009, 10:24 AM
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I'm guessing because its cheap, it got awesome reviews, and the audio cable needed is like $10.
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post #210 of 1693 Old 01-31-2009, 10:35 AM
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Pass-through = no audio
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Reply Blu-ray Players

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