Denon DVD-A1UD/DVD-A1UDCI Blu-Ray/DVD/SACD/DVD-A/ Universal Player - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 3625 Old 12-13-2008, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Not sure that'll be too popular around here, but I guess it's cool that they have it.

Not for me, though.

The point I was trying to make was when nippon posted the specs of this player, there was no mention of VS, so who really know what other hidden secrets Denon is keeping hush until the player is finally availble to the consumers.

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post #362 of 3625 Old 12-14-2008, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

The point I was trying to make was when nippon posted the specs of this player, there was no mention of VS, so who really know what other hidden secrets Denon is keeping hush until the player is finally availble to the consumers.

Sure-- I agree. Who knows what goodies lurk in the heart of this beast? Can't wait too see.

I was just saying --to the specific feature you pointed out-- most folks around here want OAR, not new kinds of stretchies.

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post #363 of 3625 Old 12-14-2008, 12:59 PM
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On my part that player could be the one I am looking despite the price.

I am desperate to save some space in my racks so I can upgrade for a bigger screen, the racks being under the current screen and can't be located elsewhere, I have no other choice than sell some units and change my racks for smaller ones.

I just need to know if the AVP DL4 update will be software (if it is hardware that will be a deal killer) and if the A1UD will be faster than the DVD-3800 (something close to the 5000ES would be enough for me).

If it's good to go, it will replace my CD player, SACD player and DVD-A player in addition to my current BD player.

I am sure Denon worked really hard that unit, they have seen the pioneer 09 in action and I wonder if they did not wait so they could give the A1UD similar PQ if not better.
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post #364 of 3625 Old 12-14-2008, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackox View Post

I am sure Denon worked really hard that unit, they have seen the pioneer 09 in action and I wonder if they did not wait so they could give the A1UD similar PQ if not better.

Are we still waiting for CES or has Denon actually shown this unit in action yet? I find it strange they've mentioned so many features of how this unit is better than the 3800 for audio but picture quality seems to be a little light in details.
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post #365 of 3625 Old 12-14-2008, 01:13 PM
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I wonder too.
First claim was a very close to the DVD-3800BDCI video board, but that seems strange to me.
Now they include VS, is there confirmation about 480i to 1080p24 processing ? The realta does it perfecto, so that could be included.

We do not know about loading time, response time etc.

I am sure the unit is not finished yet, Denon might still be working even on the hardware.
A smart move would be to add in some unique video features and try to match the 09's video perfs. Some of us know about the VantageHD and VantageHD2, we know the Realta can do much more than what the DVD-3800BDCI does.
Who knows ? Maybe that A1UD will be really feature packed.
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post #366 of 3625 Old 12-14-2008, 04:01 PM
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Pity the A1UD doesnt have WiFi. With the AVP having wifi, you don't need a permanent ethernet cable to the sound equipment....but if the A1UD needs it, then the WiFi in the AVP becomes of little use to those with both.......unless somehow you could use the AVP as an access point and connect the AVP and A1UD ethernets?
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post #367 of 3625 Old 12-15-2008, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackox View Post

I wonder too.
First claim was a very close to the DVD-3800BDCI video board, but that seems strange to me.
Now they include VS, is there confirmation about 480i to 1080p24 processing ? The realta does it perfecto, so that could be included.

We do not know about loading time, response time etc.

I am sure the unit is not finished yet, Denon might still be working even on the hardware.
A smart move would be to add in some unique video features and try to match the 09's video perfs. Some of us know about the VantageHD and VantageHD2, we know the Realta can do much more than what the DVD-3800BDCI does.
Who knows ? Maybe that A1UD will be really feature packed.

Spot on! heres one for hoping that it will be feature packed

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post #368 of 3625 Old 12-15-2008, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian_o View Post

Pity the A1UD doesnt have WiFi. With the AVP having wifi, you don't need a permanent ethernet cable to the sound equipment....but if the A1UD needs it, then the WiFi in the AVP becomes of little use to those with both.......unless somehow you could use the AVP as an access point and connect the AVP and A1UD ethernets?

I can't see why it could not support wifi,but really it will be mainly for firmware updates and that usually recommends wired connection.Your wireless router will be the access point and both AVP/A1UD will be able to conmnect simutaneously.

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post #369 of 3625 Old 12-15-2008, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian_o View Post

Pity the A1UD doesnt have WiFi. With the AVP having wifi, you don't need a permanent ethernet cable to the sound equipment....but if the A1UD needs it, then the WiFi in the AVP becomes of little use to those with both.......unless somehow you could use the AVP as an access point and connect the AVP and A1UD ethernets?

Most cheapo wireless routers can be used to connect 4 wired devices over wireless to a wireless network.

Also what you describe is likely possible if they add firmware support and if user connect A1UD to AVP with crossover cable.
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post #370 of 3625 Old 12-15-2008, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Sure-- I agree. Who knows what goodies lurk in the heart of this beast? Can't wait too see.

I was just saying --to the specific feature you pointed out-- most folks around here want OAR, not new kinds of stretchies.


I'll need to see VS before I make up my mind on its importance. Never seen it before.
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post #371 of 3625 Old 12-15-2008, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jackox View Post

I am sure the unit is not finished yet, Denon might still be working even on the hardware.

Seems highly unlikely given a Feb shipping date. They probably are already on the boat.
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post #372 of 3625 Old 12-15-2008, 03:02 PM
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I've read and reread all of the "official" US announcements, and didn't see any reference to video source direct capability. Am I to assume that means no? Seems like a capability they would have promoted. On the other hand, if it has the Realta, then I guess you just let the player always output 1080p24or60.
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post #373 of 3625 Old 12-15-2008, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp View Post

I've read and reread all of the "official" US announcements, and didn't see any reference to video source direct capability. Am I to assume that means no? Seems like a capability they would have promoted. On the other hand, if it has the Realta, then I guess you just let the player always output 1080p24or60.

Video source direct is not a typical Denon feature so I wouldn't count on it. All signs point to this player having the 3800's video processing as a minimum (Realta) and some additional tweaks that include vertical stretch.

Truthfully, I'd rather spend $600 on the new Oppo BDP-83 and let it be a companion to my 3800. There are a lot of things I'd rather spend 4 grand on, especially in this economy.

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #374 of 3625 Old 12-15-2008, 07:15 PM
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Source direct has already been confirmed as a feature in the press release posted earlier in this thread.
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post #375 of 3625 Old 12-15-2008, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Axatax View Post

Source direct has already been confirmed as a feature in the press release posted earlier in this thread.

Thanks Axatax. I'm not finding it, can anyone provide a link? Thanks!
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post #376 of 3625 Old 12-15-2008, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Video source direct is not a typical Denon feature so I wouldn't count on it. All signs point to this player having the 3800's video processing as a minimum (Realta) and some additional tweaks that include vertical stretch.

Truthfully, I'd rather spend $600 on the new Oppo BDP-83 and let it be a companion to my 3800. There are a lot of things I'd rather spend 4 grand on, especially in this economy.

Just started reading about the new Oppo BDP-83. Worthy of serious consideration by us Denon AVP-A1HDCI owners.
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post #377 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gimp View Post

Just started reading about the new Oppo BDP-83. Worthy of serious consideration by us Denon AVP-A1HDCI owners.

Sounds like it although if DL4 is offers any worthwhile improvmenet then AVP + Oppo owners will always know they could have better (And AVP owners are not typically short of cash).
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post #378 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Spot on! heres one for hoping that it will be feature packed

From the press release it is already feature packed!
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Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

Most cheapo wireless routers can be used to connect 4 wired devices over wireless to a wireless network.

The wireless portion of my router died and it made more sense to upgrade it than to fix it, so I will put it in my rack for the DVRx2, BR, and AVR, once I re-wire.

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post #379 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

Sounds like it although if DL4 is offers any worthwhile improvment then AVP + Oppo owners will always know they could have better (And AVP owners are not typically short of cash).

Good point. US$3K+ price diff for DL4 will require considerable for info for me to decide. Think I'll try to snag an early adopter Oppo and try it out for a while. Too bad the industry didn't standardize on an HDMI-based flow-control method for jitter reduction (ala Pioneer approach).
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post #380 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gimp View Post

Good point. US$3K+ price diff for DL4 will require considerable for info for me to decide. Think I'll try to snag an early adopter Oppo and try it out for a while. Too bad the industry didn't standardize on an HDMI-based flow-control method for jitter reduction (ala Pioneer approach).

Who kowns ?! That could be a new feature in the next HDMI version.
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post #381 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 02:44 PM
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Thanks Axatax. I'm not finding it, can anyone provide a link? Thanks!

Sorry, I thought it was posted here. This is from a major UK magazine, which claims the source as Denon UK. I was unable to find the original source that the magazine references:

http://whathifi.co.uk/News/Denon-lau...lu-ray-player/

Quote:


Construction:

* Direct Mechanical Ground Construction, embodying concepts for thorough vibration resistance
* Denon's original Advanced S.V.H. mechanism, newly developed for low specific gravity, vibration resistance, quiet operation, and high precision.
* Seven block structure, to thoroughly prevent mutual interference caused by electrical and magnetic factors; 18.9 kg weight

Audio Quality:

* Dynamic Discrete Surround Circuit-HD (DDSC-HD), achieving high-quality sound
* Denon Link 4th to achieve the world's first jitter-free transmission
* of digital audio via HDMI
* Advanced AL32 Processing Multi Channel, Denon's proprietary technology that optimizes audio performance, used for the first time in the DVD-A1UD
* Discrete 192-kHz, 32-bit D/A converters for all channels
* Multi-channel support from Denon's proprietary Compressed Audio Restorer function (2 Channel for MP3/WMA, Mutli Channel for Dolby Digital/DTS)
* A/V Pure Direct (two HDMI output ports)
* Dolby Pro Logic IIx and DTS Neo:6 decoding, in addition to Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio
* Support for SACD, DVD-Audio and HDCD

Video Quality:

* Denon's video circuitry for high picture quality, to produce a richer video image from DVD [REALTA, highly acclaimed Silicon Optix video processor]
* Digital Noise Reduction, effective for both HD content from BD media and SD content from DVD media
* 1080/24p output, for maximum enhancement of film texture
* Denon Pixel Image Correction (D.P.I.C.), for more natural curvature correction
* Dual HD video processing to individually select HD resolutions for HDMI & Component out
* Vertical Stretch (supporting the CinemaScope aspect ratio for anamorphic lense),
* a world's first in a universal player with Blu-ray
* Source Direct, to output disc content in its original resolution
* HDMI (ver. 1.3a, supporting Deep Colour, High Bit Rate Audio output), for transmission of high-definition video and audio signals

User Friendliness:

* Easy-to-read and easy-to-operate G.U.I. (Graphical User Interface)
* Support "BONUSVIEW" functions
* "BD-Live" ready
* Support for HDMI Control (Consumer Electronics Control)
* Backlight for all remote control unit buttons

Denon UK

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post #382 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jackox View Post

Who kowns ?! That could be a new feature in the next HDMI version.

My understanding is that the current HDMI spec provides sufficient support for flow control. There just needs to be agreed uniform method of implementation.
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post #383 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 02:52 PM
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The press release states: "Advanced AL32 Processing, allowing digital upsampling of 16- and 24-bit digital signals to 32-bits"

If one turns on AL32 in the player uses only the HDMI and DL4 connections to the Denon AVP-A1HDCI, will the AVP receive and be able to process 32-bits, or is the only way to take advantage of AL32 is to use the players analog outputs? Seems like since the AVP is only AL24 and has only 24-bit DACs, the players AL32 capabilities are limited to its analog outputs.
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post #384 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp View Post

The press release states: "Advanced AL32 Processing, allowing digital upsampling of 16- and 24-bit digital signals to 32-bits"

If one turns on AL32 in the player uses only the HDMI and DL4 connections to the Denon AVP-A1HDCI, will the AVP receive and be able to process 32-bits, or is the only way to take advantage of AL32 is to use the players analog outputs? Seems like since the AVP is only AL24 and has only 24-bit DACs, the players AL32 capabilities are limited to its analog outputs.

Good question, Gimp. Also, does the jitter reduction work with analog?

The answer to both is of interest to me because I do not have HDMI audio on my Arcam, so until some later date when I upgrade it, I will be using the analog outputs. And maybe after I do as well, depending on the quality.

As of now, I prefer the DACs in the 5910 to those in the Arcam.

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post #385 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Good question, Gimp. Also, does the jitter reduction work with analog?

The answer to both is of interest to me because I do not have HDMI audio on my Arcam, so until some later date when I upgrade it, I will be using the analog outputs. And maybe after I do as well, depending on the quality.

As of now, I prefer the DACs in the 5910 to those in the Arcam.

There is no jitter issue if the players does the D/A conversion
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post #386 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Axatax View Post

Sorry, I thought it was posted here. This is from a major UK magazine, which claims the source as Denon UK. I was unable to find the original source that the magazine references:

http://whathifi.co.uk/News/Denon-lau...lu-ray-player/

Thanks! Wonder why that detail was omitted from the US press release.
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post #387 of 3625 Old 12-16-2008, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jackox View Post

There is no jitter issue if the players does the D/A conversion

Excellent, that makes sense-- Thank you, jackox.

All the more reason to look forward to this baby.

I didn't want to buy it and feel compelled to buy the AVP to get the best sound out of it. Though in some ways I probably would, I guess.

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post #388 of 3625 Old 12-17-2008, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp View Post

The press release states: "Advanced AL32 Processing, allowing digital upsampling of 16- and 24-bit digital signals to 32-bits"

If one turns on AL32 in the player uses only the HDMI and DL4 connections to the Denon AVP-A1HDCI, will the AVP receive and be able to process 32-bits, or is the only way to take advantage of AL32 is to use the players analog outputs? Seems like since the AVP is only AL24 and has only 24-bit DACs, the players AL32 capabilities are limited to its analog outputs.

That is a great question, also when(if ever) will the AVP be upgraded to AL32?

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post #389 of 3625 Old 12-19-2008, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gimp View Post

The press release states: "Advanced AL32 Processing, allowing digital upsampling of 16- and 24-bit digital signals to 32-bits"

If one turns on AL32 in the player uses only the HDMI and DL4 connections to the Denon AVP-A1HDCI, will the AVP receive and be able to process 32-bits, or is the only way to take advantage of AL32 is to use the players analog outputs? Seems like since the AVP is only AL24 and has only 24-bit DACs, the players AL32 capabilities are limited to its analog outputs.

Lots of questions here really. Are there 32bit dacs for each channel in 71.? Even if there are, without balanced outputs beyond 2 channels could you make use of it in practice?

Or is there only one 32bit dac and this is for single bitstream SACD mode?

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Originally Posted by IwantmyTHX View Post

That is a great question, also when(if ever) will the AVP be upgraded to AL32?

I cant see this happening...it would be a big upgrade as there are a LOT of 24bit DACs!!
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post #390 of 3625 Old 12-19-2008, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jackox View Post

That would be a waste of time but why not.


2) Even used as simple transport BD players won't perform the same. Digital path depends on many factors as there is no error correction like in the computer world, the data flow is not bi-directonal. That is one of the reasons we get jitter. The A1UD will feature a low to zero jitter clock sync circuit that will work on DL4 and HDMI (the DVD-3800BDCI already has a low jitter clock for audio over HDMI). The Oppo won't.
The A1UD will feature some improvements over the DVD-3800BDCI and no body knows how well the ABT2010 will be integrated in the 83 (I am a private beta tester of the EDGE, so I know about what the ABT2010 can do and I know the problems AnchorBay had to fixe and how hard it was).

I did t a bit of research on this and wanted to ask you something. From what I have read we do not get jitter with a digital transport as it only happens when DACs are used i.e. when using component video.

Can you confirm or post a link to something which says jitter is an issue when using HDMI with video? I would i like educate myself on this. I cant find anything from anywhere which says the Oppo will look any different then Denon. My PS3, A1 and Xbox add on all look the same and I do not see jitter" from any of them.
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