Denon DVD-A1UD/DVD-A1UDCI Blu-Ray/DVD/SACD/DVD-A/ Universal Player - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3625 Old 02-24-2009, 01:14 PM
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From what is known of this player, is it a universal player version of the 3800 or is there more to it? I believe it will use the same Realta chip for video and the same robust analog section for audio....but is there more to justify it's price?

I have a Classe SSP-800 so don't think the Denon-Link will apply to me. I do own the 3800 and a Pioneer HD1. I had my eyes on the new Elite 09 to replace the HD1 but could go the new Denon if there was good "most bang for my buck" reasons. Thanks.
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post #722 of 3625 Old 02-24-2009, 03:44 PM
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Just to clarify.

Digital data does not suffer jitter, it is the process of converting from D to A that is subject to jitter. Actually, AtoD also is prone to jitter but lets leave that aside for now.

Think if digital data as like any other computer file- send it from a to b and it arrives exactly as it was sent. There is no change. Every bit arrives as sent. Jitter is not an issue similar to file corruption. Think of it this way. You can copy an MP3 file as often as you like and without loss of any information, but when you convert it to analouge you can get jitter.
It is about the timing of turning the digital data back into analogue. Converting to analogue requires a digital representation of the analogue signal (digitised signal) and then a d/a conversion. Both steps are always there so there is always the possibility of jitter. To minimise jitter, either you buffer and clock the digitised signal or you create the digitised signal at the last moment. Systems which are most prone to jitter create the digitised signal from the data file early and send that signal over an external cable without "clock signals and a buffer" to recover from jitter. If when you send over an external cable you send the data file, rather than a digitised signal created from the data, you don't have jitter from transmitting over cable. You can still have jitter when you finally do the conversion but if it is done within the circuit of a single audio component the risk is less. The shorter the circuit path of digitised analogue the lower the risk of jitter.

I hope i have been clearer than mud here

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Originally Posted by gimp View Post

I'm only interested in clarifying the true benefit of DL4. Clarifying information is not side-tracking the thread, it is a key purpose of the thread. I read the entire Advanced topics in HD audio thread and it is consistent start to finish; bitstreams are jitter immune. My only assertion in my original post was/is that DL4 adds nothing for bitstreams because they are jitter immune while in the bitstream form. I never made any assertion regarding when not in bitstream form. The sole point of my assertion was to clarify what I believe is obfuscation regarding the value of DL4. DL4 adds absolutely nothing for bitstreamed DD, DD+, TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD, DVD-A MLP, or SACD DSD. Only native LPCM transmitted via HDMI will benefit from DL4 w.r.t. jitter. Therefore, DL4 offers jitter benefits for Blu-ray with an uncompressed LPCM audio track, Redbook CD, HDCD, and DAD & HDAD.

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post #723 of 3625 Old 02-25-2009, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian_o View Post

Just to clarify.

Digital data does not suffer jitter, it is the process of converting from D to A that is subject to jitter. Actually, AtoD also is prone to jitter but lets leave that aside for now.

Think if digital data as like any other computer file- send it from a to b and it arrives exactly as it was sent. There is no change. Every bit arrives as sent. Jitter is not an issue similar to file corruption. Think of it this way. You can copy an MP3 file as often as you like and without loss of any information, but when you convert it to analouge you can get jitter.
It is about the timing of turning the digital data back into analogue. Converting to analogue requires a digital representation of the analogue signal (digitised signal) and then a d/a conversion. Both steps are always there so there is always the possibility of jitter. To minimise jitter, either you buffer and clock the digitised signal or you create the digitised signal at the last moment. Systems which are most prone to jitter create the digitised signal from the data file early and send that signal over an external cable without "clock signals and a buffer" to recover from jitter. If when you send over an external cable you send the data file, rather than a digitised signal created from the data, you don't have jitter from transmitting over cable. You can still have jitter when you finally do the conversion but if it is done within the circuit of a single audio component the risk is less. The shorter the circuit path of digitised analogue the lower the risk of jitter.

I hope i have been clearer than mud here

I think Gimp is also right in his explanation and the "bitstream" data he is referring to are the digital "packaged" data streams. It all comes back to PCM audio found on CD's and some movie discs that will benefit from Denon's approach to jitter control.
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post #724 of 3625 Old 02-25-2009, 05:29 AM
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http://www.areadvd.de/news/2009/02/2...yer-von-denon/

It talks a bit about 4th generation DL between the player and possible upgrades for existing denon amps.

Also there is word about a possible release date of the A1 in April for Germany (Europe?).

Just thought it might be interesting for some of you

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post #725 of 3625 Old 02-28-2009, 03:33 AM
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In the meantime Denon has increased the price for the DVD-A1UD to 5.000 EUR in Germany which equals about 6.250 USD.

It's a pity that I haven't ordered the player earlier. Now I am not sure anymore, if I am willing to pay that price...
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post #726 of 3625 Old 02-28-2009, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphoR View Post

From what is known of this player, is it a universal player version of the 3800 or is there more to it? I believe it will use the same Realta chip for video and the same robust analog section for audio....but is there more to justify it's price?

I have a Classe SSP-800 so don't think the Denon-Link will apply to me. I do own the 3800 and a Pioneer HD1. I had my eyes on the new Elite 09 to replace the HD1 but could go the new Denon if there was good "most bang for my buck" reasons. Thanks.

It has balanced Outs Ralph, if im correct your has the balanced inputs also. So there is one advantage apart from that its a universal BD player that can play SACD. As you said you cannot use the DL 4.

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post #727 of 3625 Old 03-02-2009, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caha_1979 View Post

In the meantime Denon has increased the price for the DVD-A1UD to 5.000 EUR in Germany which equals about 6.250 USD.

It's a pity that I haven't ordered the player earlier. Now I am not sure anymore, if I am willing to pay that price...

Where did you find that price - did not see anything on the Denon website. Or did you talk to one of their vendors/premium partners?

Just curious as I might be inclined to try and source it from the US considering the current exchange rate and how far prices in Europe are removed from reality

Thanks!

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post #728 of 3625 Old 03-02-2009, 03:03 PM
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I talked to one of the premium partners after having read about the new price in another forum. He told me that DENON increased the prices because the Yen increased its value in comparison to the EURO. But a price increase of 25% seems to be too much for me in times of an economic crisis even if the Denon is a high end product.

Anyway, it is a pity that I haven't ordered it before they increased the prices. There were some vendors which offered it for 3.400 - 3.500 EUR. Unfortunately these prices are history now.
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post #729 of 3625 Old 03-02-2009, 04:57 PM
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Wow, my first posting...

Anyways, does anyone know if the analog 7.1 outputs have fully configurable bass management? Meaning, can you set different crossover frequencies for each set of speakers?

MB
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post #730 of 3625 Old 03-03-2009, 09:18 AM
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Thanks for the details caha_1979 - interesting reason. Don't think Denon is doing themselves a favour with that in Europe. I'd still like to see this player in action and will still consider it but the combination of Pioneer's LX91 and one of their better SACD/DVD-A players looks mighty tempting at this stage.

Talk about pricing yourself out of a market...

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post #731 of 3625 Old 03-06-2009, 11:10 AM
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Does anyone know if the US version of this player will support both NTSC and PAL playback? Thanks.
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post #732 of 3625 Old 03-07-2009, 06:36 AM
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Considering that the back image on the Denon US homepage shows the logos for region 1 DVDs and region A BR I wouldn't hold my breath for any PAL support - sorry.

Edit: On the other hand - 1080p is 1080p no matter what the region code is. So to be more precise I don't see any indication for PAL DVD support on the US model.

If you can still hear your neighbors banging on your door, you are not using your HT setup to its full potential!
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post #733 of 3625 Old 03-07-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eohtar View Post

Considering that the back image on the Denon US homepage shows the logos for region 1 DVDs and region A BR I wouldn't hold my breath for any PAL support - sorry.

Edit: On the other hand - 1080p is 1080p no matter what the region code is. So to be more precise I don't see any indication for PAL DVD support on the US model.

Keep in mind also that the BDA prohibits region unlocking of both BR and SD-DVD's on BR players...
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post #734 of 3625 Old 03-07-2009, 02:46 PM
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A player can be RA and R1 and yet plays 576i ("PAL"), like the current Pioneer 51/05FD. Region locking is a separate but related issue.

Some European Blu-rays are region-free but have extras in 576i so the ability to play 576i/"PAL" is essential in a BD player for people who import BDs. I wouldn't call a player universal if it doesn't play region 0 "PAL".

My R1 Denon 2900 universal player plays PAL out of the box (before it was made R0). Denon BD players might be a different story but previous Denon BD players' PAL support status or lack of (?) might give a pointer.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #735 of 3625 Old 03-07-2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

A player can be RA and R1 and yet plays 576i ("PAL"), like the current Pioneer 51/05FD.

dun be so sure abt US players. The fact that pioneer models can does not mean the others can. I know of some models which cannot play region free PAL material. More over, some models cannot play Region A 1080i50 bluray material.
anything 50hz is fuzzy for US machines...
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post #736 of 3625 Old 03-16-2009, 09:40 AM
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Anyone hear anything new as to the release date of this player? Things have gotten really quiet.

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post #737 of 3625 Old 03-17-2009, 11:57 AM
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Is $4499 now the official price?

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post #738 of 3625 Old 03-17-2009, 01:18 PM
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Finally, this is a start Thanks, hopefully we will see some firm dates announced soon.

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post #739 of 3625 Old 03-17-2009, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Is $4499 now the official price?

As far as I know, yes. That is unless Denon decides to up the price once again right before launch. I'm still on board, but if they up it once more I'm out.
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post #740 of 3625 Old 03-19-2009, 11:39 PM
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it's been officially delayed to May ...

http://denon.jp/company/release/dvda1ud.html
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post #741 of 3625 Old 03-20-2009, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c722 View Post

it's been officially delayed to May ...

http://denon.jp/company/release/dvda1ud.html


May or October?


LINK

Quote:


Hope you weren't planning on scoring one of Denon's mighty pricey DVD-A1UD universal BD players anytime soon, 'cause it just got delayed. Again. After surfacing to much fanfare late last year, the all-in-one player has since been tangled in setbacks. The latest excuse has something to do with "taking time to optimize the playback," but we're not exactly sure why that testing will take until October to complete. Believe it or not, it will have been 10 full months from announcement to ship date if the new launch window stays put -- meanwhile, OPPO's taking full advantage of the situation here in America with its BDP-83.


LINK 2

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #742 of 3625 Old 03-20-2009, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q of BanditZ View Post

May or October?


LINK




LINK 2

In the Japan website they say 2009 mid May.
Quote:


"taking time to optimize the playback,"

Well its good to see there trying to iron out the bugs.

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post #743 of 3625 Old 03-20-2009, 10:05 AM
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Crap, it seems like I'm never going to get to go Blu. Oh well, if anything I get yet one more month to continue building up my BluRay library. I agree, ironing out any kinks or issues is a good thing especially given the insane price of this thing.

Surely this madness will end soon

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post #744 of 3625 Old 03-20-2009, 10:19 AM
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Man, this is like a never ending soap opera for you guys. My heart goes out to you. Now I think I'll go fire up my 09FD and watch some BDs.

Growing Older But Not Up
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post #745 of 3625 Old 03-20-2009, 12:27 PM
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I contacted the folks at ListenUp.com (as they're the 'official' online retailer for Denon, the only ones taking pre orders that I've found, and I've already ordered from them...).

They got in touch with Denon and came back to me with "pre-orders will be filled with units air-shipped in May". Guess that confirms the other sources saying May.

I must admit this is getting a bit frustrating...hell, I placd my order back on Jan 30...i guess luckily though, at that time it was only $4200....
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post #746 of 3625 Old 03-20-2009, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c722 View Post

it's been officially delayed to May ...

http://denon.jp/company/release/dvda1ud.html

Bummer. But like was mentioned, better that they get any kinks ironed out now than release a product full of glitches.

And so I wait....


Seth
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post #747 of 3625 Old 03-23-2009, 05:31 AM
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there was this news article posted today on a German website:

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2009/03/2...ud-ab-maijuni/

They give a rundown of the tech specs again but also quote someone from Denon Germany. He gives a tentative release date of early June for Germany (Europe) and claims the complexity of having BD and SACD in one unit as the cause for the delay.

Just thought this might be interesting for some of you

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post #748 of 3625 Old 03-23-2009, 03:15 PM
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And according to this article the price of the unit has decreased to 4.000 EUR again.
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post #749 of 3625 Old 03-24-2009, 12:23 AM
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At this stage I'd be happy if it would officially appear on any Denon website other than the Japanese and US one - come on Denon!

If you can still hear your neighbors banging on your door, you are not using your HT setup to its full potential!
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post #750 of 3625 Old 03-24-2009, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eohtar View Post

..claims the complexity of having BD and SACD in one unit as the cause for the delay..

It's funny that Oppo seem to have BD+SACD licked, but are taking longer to support DVD-Audio.
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