Denon DVD-A1UD/DVD-A1UDCI Blu-Ray/DVD/SACD/DVD-A/ Universal Player - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 3625 Old 05-06-2009, 08:23 AM
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In order for a player to be 2.0 compatible it has to have onboard storage or some way of storing the content of those discs, either that be onboard storage (hard drive for lack of a better word) or memory slot like is on the front of this unit, does it not? The Pioneer 09 for example has 4GB of onboard storage I believe but most 2.0 players seem to have 1GB, I think that may be the minimum spec. Perhaps my use of a "hardrive" is incorrect but what I'm getting at is simply a storage method of some sort, be that a true hardrive or internal memory card, etc. Is the SD card slot on the front of this player to suit that need? That's what I'm curious about because I didn't see the term BD-Live mentioned in the manual, only Bonus View.

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post #812 of 3625 Old 05-06-2009, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

All players properly output LFE -10db over analog (-15db for the SW with bass management). The sub needs to be boosted in the processor. Are you referring to something other than that?

Yes, that is what I was referring to. Right now I am trying to find the correct settings for bass management with my Parasound Halo P7 pre-amp and Denon DVD3800BDCI. The P7 does allow for a subwoofer trim. My thinking is that a +5db on the P7 along with the +10db on the Denon should compensate for this. Does this sound right to you?
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post #813 of 3625 Old 05-06-2009, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

Yes, that is what I was referring to. Right now I am trying to find the correct settings for bass management with my Parasound Halo P7 pre-amp and Denon DVD3800BDCI. The P7 does allow for a subwoofer trim. My thinking is that a +5db on the P7 along with the +10db on the Denon should compensate for this. Does this sound right to you?

LFE is recorded 10db lower than the proper playback level for a reason - to prevent overloading interconnects at peak volumes. If you do most of the boost in the player (10db of the 15db needed with bass management), you risk defeating the original purpose. It is best to do all of the boost in the AVR. But, if you can't, then do it any way you can, calibrate with an SPL meter, and see whether you have any problems with really loud bass passages. With a 3800BDCI, you have the option to increase the sub channel output in the player, which is not the case with many players.

As to your original question, it would seem almost certain that the new Denon will treat LFE over analog the same as other players. btw, LFE also arrives 10db low over digital. But, the receiver software takes care of the boost without any user intervention.
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post #814 of 3625 Old 05-06-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

In order for a player to be 2.0 compatible it has to have onboard storage or some way of storing the content of those discs, either that be onboard storage (hard drive for lack of a better word) or memory slot like is on the front of this unit, does it not? The Pioneer 09 for example has 4GB of onboard storage I believe but most 2.0 players seem to have 1GB, I think that may be the minimum spec. Perhaps my use of a "hardrive" is incorrect but what I'm getting at is simply a storage method of some sort, be that a true hardrive or internal memory card, etc. Is the SD card slot on the front of this player to suit that need? That's what I'm curious about because I didn't see the term BD-Live mentioned in the manual, only Bonus View.

Thanks,

Rod

Thanks, Rod, I didn't know all that.

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post #815 of 3625 Old 05-06-2009, 08:04 PM
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I just preordered this BD player,it is the good looking one and it is matching with my AVP/POA-A1HD,AVC-A1HD too.
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post #816 of 3625 Old 05-08-2009, 11:29 AM
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I just preordered this BD player,it is the good looking one and it is matching with my AVP/POA-A1HD,AVC-A1HD too.


Can you tell me -us on what price did you preorder it?

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post #817 of 3625 Old 05-08-2009, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

I was just reading through the manual and noticed that for SACD sent over HDMI, it is output at 16 bit/44.1kHz LPCM. Is this the norm for SACD over HDMI on existing universal standard DVD players? Since my 5900 DVD player does not have HDMI (I use analog) I have never paid any attention to what players output the signal as.

Thanks,

Rod

if SACD is being downmixed to LPCM at 44.1 over HDMI...better use the denon link to send it to your receiver/amp.
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post #818 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by oolalajp View Post

if SACD is being downmixed to LPCM at 44.1 over HDMI...better use the denon link to send it to your receiver/amp.

Unfortunately I don't have a Denon Receiver or processor so that's not an option. I have a Lexicon MC-12B so I'll actually be using analog until some point in the future when I get a new surround sound processor. So do these specs seem odd for such a high end player in that are other SACD players out there able to send higher resolution LPCM signals decoded from the SACD source? I would hate to spend this kind of money on the player if it has a comprised SACD implementation compared to other universal players on the market including my 5900 DVD player which was made back in 2003. I would hope at the very least it had the same SACD specs as the most recent flagship Denon 5910 DVD player.

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post #819 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

Unfortunately I don't have a Denon Receiver or processor so that's not an option. I have a Lexicon MC-12B so I'll actually be using analog until some point in the future when I get a new surround sound processor. So do these specs seem odd for such a high end player in that are other SACD players out there able to send higher resolution LPCM signals decoded from the SACD source? I would hate to spend this kind of money on the player if it has a comprised SACD implementation compared to other universal players on the market including my 5900 DVD player which was made back in 2003. I would hope at the very least it had the same SACD specs as the most recent flagship Denon 5910 DVD player.

It does seem odd. Especially since the $499 universal Oppo BDP-83 outputs 24-bit 88kHz PCM over HDMI from SACD. Strike one (or two) for the Denon!

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post #820 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

It does seem odd. Especially since the $499 universal Oppo BDP-83 outputs 24-bit 88kHz PCM over HDMI from SACD. Strike one (or two) for the Denon!

Even better the oppo can also output a dsd stream ; a quote from Robert Harley at av guide.com -
Quote:


The advantage of maintaining a DSD bitstream to the DACs, and converting DSD to analog, is that the signal is never subjected to the low-pass reconstruction filter required in conversion of PCM to analog. This filter is a significant contributor to what we call "CD sound" (hard timbres, flat soundstage, for examples).

To answer your question directly, conversion of DSD to PCM does degrade sound quality.

The DSD-to-analog converter is extraordinarily simple compared to PCM-to-analog conversion. In fact, it is theoretically possible to convert a DSD bitstream to analog with a single capacitor. That's the beauty of DSD.

Interesting read the whole page -

http://www.avguide.com/forums/oppo-b...s-pcm-question
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post #821 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 01:04 PM
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Wow, so the Oppo bests the Denon in this regard. I agree, this is a definite strike against the Denon. Does anyone know what the Denon DVD-5910 does with SACD signals over HDMI, or any of the other current Denon universal DVD players for that matter? Did it (or they) have this same limitation or is this obvious design decision limited to this upcoming BluRay player?

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post #822 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 01:31 PM
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I guess you would need a DAC that can do D/A from bitstream? Is this common?

What about the internal DACs in the player?--I use the analog outs in my 5910 almost exclusively.

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post #823 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

I guess you would need a DAC that can do D/D from bitstream? Is this common?

What about the internal DACs in the player?--I use the analog outs in my 5910 almost exclusively.

It depends on the player. Some do a PCM conversion first. I have a Denon 2900 that converts directly from DSD to analog. That player does bass management for DSD, but no distance adjustments.
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post #824 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 02:14 PM
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I really liked the SQ of my 2900--I was not overwhelmed when I upgraded to the 5900, but the 5910 was a major improvement.

I'll try to find some time to dig out my manual and see if SACD is converted to PCM first. Unless someone can say off the top of their head.

Also would like to know the same about the DAC implementation in the new player--There may be one of those in my future.

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post #825 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 05:27 PM
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I'm going to write an e-mail to Denon asking about this SACD business. It just seems contradictory to market this player as the best of each area when in fact, where SACD is concerned it can not mange any more than the age old CD resolution from that source over HDMI when the Oppo, which probably costs less than the damn disc tray in this thing can accomplish native DSD over HDMI and 24 bit, 88KHz. I mean why even bother putting the dollars into the R&D to include SACD when you end up limiting it to 16/44.1. It makes no sense.

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post #826 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 05:51 PM
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Save your money on the Denon guys! I talked to Dan at Modwright and he is doing a full mod on Oppo Blue Ray unit. He is offering a solid state or tube mod,either one will hands down smoke the Denon.If you have ever heard one of his players you know what I mean.I am sure this player modified will still be much cheaper than Denon also,seems to me a no-brainer.
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post #827 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wizeazz View Post

Save your money on the Denon guys! I talked to Dan at Modwright and he is doing a full mod on Oppo Blue Ray unit. He is offering a solid state or tube mod,either one will hands down smoke the Denon.If you have ever heard one of his players you know what I mean.I am sure this player modified will still be much cheaper than Denon also,seems to me a no-brainer.

But he won't be able to address firmware issues with the Oppo though (HDCD, DVD-A, etc), so I'll take the less buggy, more expensive, and properly Universal Denon thanks.
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post #828 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 06:24 PM
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All Blueray players have firmware issues.It is a simple download from your PC, not something you would have to send the player back for.Blueray itself is evolving every few months,firmware updates allow us to watch the latest and greatest.In the end, I think even the stock Oppo player will compete with the new Denon head to head, as all the other Oppo players have been equal to 2910,3910 and 5910.Reference Audio Mods has stated on several threads that the Oppos stock are as good as any Denon stock.Call me crazy, but if a 500.00 unit sounds as good as a 4,000 unit and they both have the same features,do the math! I guess if you were a die-hard Denon fan that would explain your choice and I can respect that.
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post #829 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

But he won't be able to address firmware issues with the Oppo though (HDCD, DVD-A, etc), so I'll take the less buggy, more expensive, and properly Universal Denon thanks.

You obviously haven't been following the Denon 3800 thread. I expect the A1UDCI to be no different. High price doesn't guarantee reliablility.

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post #830 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

You obviously haven't been following the Denon 3800 thread. I expect the A1UDCI to be no different. High price doesn't guarantee reliablility.

Note I did say less buggy, not bug free.
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post #831 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

Note I did say less buggy, not bug free.

Hopefully the universal player doesn't use the same transport as the 3800. I'd say a good number of the first 1500 players had to be returned in order to get the blue laser assembly fixed (some of them failed just after the 1 year warranty!). Also, most phone calls to tech support get "oh, that's the first time we've heard of that issue!" even though countless AVS members made the same complaint. Good luck with Denon tech support. I'd rather speak to Oppo's.

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post #832 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 08:00 PM
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I would not put it past Denon given their track record. I got the chance to look inside the MAC MVP-871 and would you believe what it uses for a transport? The same one thats in the Denon 2930,WOW! This was a 6,000 player at one time.I just do not agree with this practice.Seems to me that the guy buying this unit might be expecting a little more.I guess now that Denon and MAC are part of the same group its common place,but it makes you wonder about the rest of their products.
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post #833 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 08:18 PM
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I would not put it past Denon given their track record. I got the chance to look inside the MAC MVP-871 and would you believe what it uses for a transport? The same one thats in the Denon 2930,WOW! This was a 6,000 player at one time.I just do not agree with this practice.Seems to me that the guy buying this unit might be expecting a little more.I guess now that Denon and MAC are part of the same group its common place,but it makes you wonder about the rest of their products.

It's funny how people (mostly dealers) keep telling me the Denon 3800 and Marantz 8002 are not clones. Next thing they'll tell me is that the future Marantz universal player is not a clone of this A1UDCI. I don't mind that they share most parts being part of D&M Holdings and all but it doesn't hurt to be a little honest!

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post #834 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wizeazz View Post

Save your money on the Denon guys! I talked to Dan at Modwright and he is doing a full mod on Oppo Blue Ray unit. He is offering a solid state or tube mod,either one will hands down smoke the Denon.If you have ever heard one of his players you know what I mean.I am sure this player modified will still be much cheaper than Denon also,seems to me a no-brainer.

How much?

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post #835 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

I'm going to write an e-mail to Denon asking about this SACD business. It just seems contradictory to market this player as the best of each area when in fact, where SACD is concerned it can not mange any more than the age old CD resolution from that source over HDMI when the Oppo, which probably costs less than the damn disc tray in this thing can accomplish native DSD over HDMI and 24 bit, 88KHz. I mean why even bother putting the dollars into the R&D to include SACD when you end up limiting it to 16/44.1. It makes no sense.

i believe the 5910 converts dsd to pcm over hdmi but i wouldn't dream of degrading mine by transmittting audio in this way (even if I had an hdmi capable audio processor) and bypassing oh, like 75% of the reason I bought it in the first place
.
I do not in any way believe this is contradictory to the mission of this player. why on gods green earth would anyone purchase this player only to send audio over hdmi and bypass the analog magic of this player from the super duper dac's to the al32 processing and balanced outs and the analog circuitry?

to me if you are planning on utilizing hdmi for audio then here is no reason whatsoever to not get the oppo player instead of this one--this is truly an audiophiles br player...there is only so much variation in good 1080/24 but the analog section is what you are paying for--an area in which the oppo is not even in the same galaxy...
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post #836 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

It's funny how people (mostly dealers) keep telling me the Denon 3800 and Marantz 8002 are not clones. Next thing they'll tell me is that the future Marantz universal player is not a clone of this A1UDCI. I don't mind that they share most parts being part of D&M Holdings and all but it doesn't hurt to be a little honest!

will marantz be coming out with a clone of this model as well?
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post #837 of 3625 Old 05-09-2009, 09:45 PM
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will marantz be coming out with a clone of this model as well?

AFAIK, that is the plan. Marantz has copied every Denon BD player with the exception of the 2500BTCI, which is a suped up Panasonic BD30.

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post #838 of 3625 Old 05-10-2009, 12:29 AM
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How much?

500.00 to 1,000 is what I am hearing for solid state mod and tube mod would be more since this is where MW players really shine.I really do not think you can go wrong with this player since it is so affordable, and stock still offers most of the performance of the Denon.I would wager money that once this player has either mods done it would smoke the Denon and you still would not be near Denons MSRP.I speak from experience as I currently have MW Sony 999es with all current tube mods and this thing is in another league all together.First player to really connect me to my music.I can see the MW Oppo BDP-83 being my reference video unit.
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post #839 of 3625 Old 05-10-2009, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Denophile View Post

i believe the 5910 converts dsd to pcm over hdmi but i wouldn't dream of degrading mine by transmittting audio in this way (even if I had an hdmi capable audio processor) and bypassing oh, like 75% of the reason I bought it in the first place
.
I do not in any way believe this is contradictory to the mission of this player. why on gods green earth would anyone purchase this player only to send audio over hdmi and bypass the analog magic of this player from the super duper dac's to the al32 processing and balanced outs and the analog circuitry?

to me if you are planning on utilizing hdmi for audio then here is no reason whatsoever to not get the oppo player instead of this one--this is truly an audiophiles br player...there is only so much variation in good 1080/24 but the analog section is what you are paying for--an area in which the oppo is not even in the same galaxy...

DSD should be streamed as DSD all the way through,not down sampled to PCM.Converting DSD to PCM makes the whole idea of SACD redundant.Buying a machine that still offers to play two almost dead formats is for a niche market anyway, so if I buy a machine for SACD capabilities I want it to play at 100%.Denon is offering SACD but not at DSD level through HDMI,that makes no sense.The Denons balanced outs by the way will most likely be single ended on the inside, since the only way to offer true XLR out is with individual line balancing transformers.I think with Denon this will most likely be for looks and not a true balanced connection,A.K.A sly selling point.If there is a tech in the house please set me straight on this.
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post #840 of 3625 Old 05-10-2009, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wizeazz View Post

DSD should be streamed as DSD all the way through,not down sampled to PCM.Converting DSD to PCM makes the whole idea of SACD redundant.Buying a machine that still offers to play two almost dead formats is for a niche market anyway, so if I buy a machine for SACD capabilities I want it to play at 100%.Denon is offering SACD but not at DSD level through HDMI,that makes no sense.The Denons balanced outs by the way will most likely be single ended on the inside, since the only way to offer true XLR out is with individual line balancing transformers.I think with Denon this will most likely be for looks and not a true balanced connection,A.K.A sly selling point.If there is a tech in the house please set me straight on this.

the denon avp is true balanced design and I will be very suprised if the big daddy denon player isnt the same to match it. If I remember denonjeffs interview it would indeed be the "best of the best" breed over analog.

for most with denon avps they'll be probably running jitter free over denon link for sacd as you can do now with denon universal players. so hdmi for them pretty much irelevant fpr the likes of sacd. the analog over xlrs though will unleash the awesome dac and analog stage the player has, quite a bit has been made of it, so will be very suprised if it doesnt live up to the claims. denon can put out some pretty awesome 2ch gear you know. they have been doing so for decades !

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Denon , Blu Ray Players

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