Bluray Player Audio Support Comparison Chart - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 663 Old 08-13-2008, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Important note on the Pioneer BPD-95FD: Using the 5.1 analog output you do not get the full Dolby TrueHD soundtrack.

It appears that for its DACs you get the decoded version of what the Pioneer would spit out its S/PDIF output.

For example if you play a 96/24bit BluRay disc (Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City Music Hall) and select the 96kHz audio track internally the Pioneer still feeds its own DACs at 48kHz.

Shawn


That's clearly indicated on the chart.

The foot note for "H" Codec decoding is limited to HDMI only. For analog output DD or DTS is used instead.
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post #122 of 663 Old 08-14-2008, 10:34 AM
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Is there any advice out there...

Could someone advise me of any Blu-Ray players that can connect via HDMI to my Pio 6020 and simultaneously feed sound through my non-HDMI Parasound Halo C2 Controller via digital optical connection. I'm trying to avoid the added expense of adding HDMI capability to my C2 controller. Thank you.
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post #123 of 663 Old 08-20-2008, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Important note on the Pioneer BPD-95FD: Using the 5.1 analog output you do not get the full Dolby TrueHD soundtrack.

It appears that for its DACs you get the decoded version of what the Pioneer would spit out its S/PDIF output.

For example if you play a 96/24bit BluRay disc (Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City Music Hall) and select the 96kHz audio track internally the Pioneer still feeds its own DACs at 48kHz.

Shawn

A lot of posters to these forums seem to believe that 5.1/7.1 analog outputs from any 'decodes all formats' player will be from the lossless tracks -- even the sub $500 players.

Is there any chart (or website) that identifies which players actually output decoded lossless soundtracks through their 5.1/7.1 analog outputs?

It's obvious that players without internal lossless decoders must simply be decoding to analog 5.1/7.1 that same DD5.1/DTS5.1 track they are running through their SPDIF output. But what about those players that do include internal lossless decoders?

I can't recall seeing any player's user manual which stated unambiguously that a TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack could be decoded to the 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. [Though I'm quite ready to believe I missed such a statement...]

Assuming the player is connected to a monitor via hdmi cable, the decoder must resolve conflicting EDIDs from the monitor (2.0 speakers) and the [internally created from user setup] analog output requirements (5.x/6.x/7.x speakers) so as to do a lossless decode as 5.x/6.x/7.x for analog. Maybe for a $1000 player, but it's all much easier to stick with a decode of the DD5.1/DTS5.1 track!

[I hope I'm wrong, so please post any details of actual in-player TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack decoding to 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. Thanks!]

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post #124 of 663 Old 08-20-2008, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

A lot of posters to these forums seem to believe that 5.1/7.1 analog outputs from any 'decodes all formats' player will be from the lossless tracks -- even the sub $500 players.

Is there any chart (or website) that identifies which players actually output decoded lossless soundtracks through their 5.1/7.1 analog outputs?

It's obvious that players without internal lossless decoders must simply be decoding to analog 5.1/7.1 that same DD5.1/DTS5.1 track they are running through their SPDIF output. But what about those players that do include internal lossless decoders?

I can't recall seeing any player's user manual which stated unambiguously that a TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack could be decoded to the 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. [Though I'm quite ready to believe I missed such a statement...]

Assuming the player is connected to a monitor via hdmi cable, the decoder must resolve conflicting EDIDs from the monitor (2.0 speakers) and the [internally created from user setup] analog output requirements (5.x/6.x/7.x speakers) so as to do a lossless decode as 5.x/6.x/7.x for analog. Maybe for a $1000 player, but it's all much easier to stick with a decode of the DD5.1/DTS5.1 track!

[I hope I'm wrong, so please post any details of actual in-player TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack decoding to 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. Thanks!]

The first post of this thread should be what you're looking for. There are still a couple of errors:

1) Panasonic BD50 can decode all to analog but is limited to 5.1. Right now it's showing orange instead of green.

2) Marantz BD8002 is a Denon 3800 clone and should be identical to the 3800's stats.

3) Pioneer 51FD and 05FD currently does not decode all. It's still waiting on firmware to decode DTS-HD MA.

4) The Panasonic BD10 does not decode DTS-HD MA to analog AFAIK. The green for analog should be changed to orange.

The players that decode all lossless to analog are:

Denon 3800
Marantz BD8002
Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only)

In the future:

Sony S550
Pioneer 51FD
Pioneer Elite 05FD

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post #125 of 663 Old 08-21-2008, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

A lot of posters to these forums seem to believe that 5.1/7.1 analog outputs from any 'decodes all formats' player will be from the lossless tracks -- even the sub $500 players.

Is there any chart (or website) that identifies which players actually output decoded lossless soundtracks through their 5.1/7.1 analog outputs?

It's obvious that players without internal lossless decoders must simply be decoding to analog 5.1/7.1 that same DD5.1/DTS5.1 track they are running through their SPDIF output. But what about those players that do include internal lossless decoders?

I can't recall seeing any player's user manual which stated unambiguously that a TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack could be decoded to the 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. [Though I'm quite ready to believe I missed such a statement...]

Assuming the player is connected to a monitor via hdmi cable, the decoder must resolve conflicting EDIDs from the monitor (2.0 speakers) and the [internally created from user setup] analog output requirements (5.x/6.x/7.x speakers) so as to do a lossless decode as 5.x/6.x/7.x for analog. Maybe for a $1000 player, but it's all much easier to stick with a decode of the DD5.1/DTS5.1 track!

[I hope I'm wrong, so please post any details of actual in-player TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA soundtrack decoding to 5.1/7.1 analog outputs. Thanks!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

The first post of this thread should be what you're looking for. There are still a couple of errors:

1) Panasonic BD50 can decode all to analog but is limited to 5.1. Right now it's showing orange instead of green.

2) Marantz BD8002 is a Denon 3800 clone and should be identical to the 3800's stats.

3) Pioneer 51FD and 05FD currently does not decode all. It's still waiting on firmware to decode DTS-HD MA.

4) The Panasonic BD10 does not decode DTS-HD MA to analog AFAIK. The green for analog should be changed to orange.

The players that decode all lossless to analog are:

Denon 3800
Marantz BD8002
Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only)

  • Denon 3800 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!
  • Marantz BD8002 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!
  • Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only) . . . $700, NOT TRUE! High Res audio decodes through HDMI only; user manual page 17 states:
Enjoying High Bit rate Audio and Video of BD-Video [BD-V]
Regarding High Bit rate Audio
This unit supports high bit rate audio (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS-HD Master Audio) adopted in BD-Video.
In order to enjoy these audio formats, connect this unit to your amplifier/receiver supporting HDMI Ver. 1.3 using a High Speed HDMI cable
(_ 6) and set Audio Priority Preset (_ 27) to Quality.
So, for current players, the price for lossless to analog in-player decoding is $2000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

In the future:

Sony S550
Pioneer 51FD
Pioneer Elite 05FD

  • Sony S550 . . . Anticipated price(?) $500 - Have been unable to find manual...
  • Pioneer 51FD . . . Anticipated price(?) $600 - User Manual page 50 is incomprehensible!!!
  • Pioneer Elite 05FD . . . Anticipated price(?) $800 - Have been unable to find manual...
Color me "unconvinced" [but still hopeful!] that any of these players will actually decode lossless to analog outputs. [But I don't think I'll make it an assumption in my future plans...]

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post #126 of 663 Old 08-21-2008, 01:22 AM
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Do any of these units ( besides the Denon 3800 and Marantz 8200 ) include comprehensive BM on their analog outputs?
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post #127 of 663 Old 08-21-2008, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rto View Post

Do any of these units ( besides the Denon 3800 and Marantz 8200 ) include comprehensive BM on their analog outputs?

No.

The Denon/Marantz models have receiver guts inside and that's how you get the extensive bass/speaker management.

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post #128 of 663 Old 08-21-2008, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

  • Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only) . . . $700, NOT TRUE! High Res audio decodes through HDMI only; user manual page 17 states:
Enjoying High Bit rate Audio and Video of BD-Video [BD-V]
Regarding High Bit rate Audio
This unit supports high bit rate audio (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS-HD Master Audio) adopted in BD-Video.
In order to enjoy these audio formats, connect this unit to your amplifier/receiver supporting HDMI Ver. 1.3 using a High Speed HDMI cable
(_ 6) and set Audio Priority Preset (_ 27) to Quality.
So, for current players, the price for lossless to analog in-player decoding is $2000.[/list]

I'm sure if you said that in the Panny BD50 Owner's thread you will be greatly flamed. No one pays $600-700 for this player and NOT get lossless through audio. The manual is poorly worded in this regard. It did not mean to exclude analaog from outputting lossless but highlighting the fact that you need an HDMI 1.3 receiver to bitstream the new HBR audio. You are taking one sentence completely out of context.

Both Dave Vaughn and Kris Deering have reviews out on this player that confirm you get full lossless through the analogs.

Dave's review:
http://ultimateavmag.com/hddiscplaye...lu-ray_player/

Kris' review can be found in the latest Sep Home Theater Magazine (not online yet).

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post #129 of 663 Old 08-21-2008, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

  • Denon 3800 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!
  • Marantz BD8002 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!

One last thing. Please don't call the Denon 3800/Marantz BD8002 "transports." Both have the Realta chip for VP and full complement of audio controls. It's about as far away from being a transport as you can be. The Denon 2500 is a transport since it only has one A/V connection in the back (HDMI).

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post #130 of 663 Old 08-21-2008, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

[snip] Panny BD50 [snip] No one pays $600-700 for this player and NOT get lossless through audio.

I can't speak for anyone else, but certainly I would not do so. That is, after all, why I am doing the research...

[Just a thought: any uncertainty about which soundtrack is being decoded could easily be put to rest if only there were a test BD available, which included a TrueHD soundtrack composed of just the repeated phrase "This is a TrueHD soundtrack", overlaid on a legacy DD5.1 soundtrack composed of just the repeated phrase "This is a legacy DD5.1 soundtrack". Oh well, maybe for the next new technology...?!]

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post #131 of 663 Old 08-21-2008, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

  • Denon 3800 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!
  • Marantz BD8002 . . . Maybe, but I won't spend $2000 for any transport; I'd rather get a cheaper player and a new receiver!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

One last thing. Please don't call the Denon 3800/Marantz BD8002 "transports." Both have the Realta chip for VP and full complement of audio controls. It's about as far away from being a transport as you can be. The Denon 2500 is a transport since it only has one A/V connection in the back (HDMI).

My apologies. You are quite correct; that was a poorly chosen phrase. In addition to my [unintentional] disparagement of either player, it failed to convey my actual sentiments. What I should have said is that I won't spend $2000 for any AV component which contains an electromechanical mechanism.

[The reason is simple: I've replaced a seemingly endless stream of electromechanical AV devices, for problems with motors, speed and/or end-of-media sensors, tray and/or eject mechanisms, etc. In the same 20+ year period, I have discarded only two failed obsolete-and-not-worth-fixing sound processors from the 25+ solid state pre-amps, power-amps, receivers, processors, and AV switches I have owned, most of which are still in use. My new philosophy is simple: Expect motorized devices to fail the year after the warranty expires, and price-performance evaluate potential purchases accordingly...]

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post #132 of 663 Old 08-21-2008, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

I can't speak for anyone else, but certainly I would not do so. That is, after all, why I am doing the research...

[Just a thought: any uncertainty about which soundtrack is being decoded could easily be put to rest if only there were a test BD available, which included a TrueHD soundtrack composed of just the repeated phrase "This is a TrueHD soundtrack", overlaid on a legacy DD5.1 soundtrack composed of just the repeated phrase "This is a legacy DD5.1 soundtrack". Oh well, maybe for the next new technology...?!]

That would be nice but how would CE manufacturers sell HDMI 1.3 receivers?

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post #133 of 663 Old 08-21-2008, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

My apologies. You are quite correct; that was a poorly chosen phrase. In addition to my [unintentional] disparagement of either player, it failed to convey my actual sentiments. What I should have said is that I won't spend $2000 for any AV component which contains an electromechanical mechanism.

[The reason is simple: I've replaced a seemingly endless stream of electromechanical AV devices, for problems with motors, speed and/or end-of-media sensors, tray and/or eject mechanisms, etc. In the same 20+ year period, I have discarded only two failed obsolete-and-not-worth-fixing sound processors from the 25+ solid state pre-amps, power-amps, receivers, processors, and AV switches I have owned, most of which are still in use. My new philosophy is simple: Expect motorized devices to fail the year after the warranty expires, and price-performance evaluate potential purchases accordingly...]

I can certainly agree with your assessment concerning what would be the first part to fail in a source player. An early batch of Denon 3800 players have problems but it is unrelated to the motor or disc tray.

It is commonly accepted by home theater enthusiasts that a DVD/BD/HD-DVD "transport" is one whose signal output requires further video and audio processing. Typically, the desired video output is 480i so that some outboard video processor can scale, deinterlace, and process the raw signal. In addition, this "transport" can also bitstream audio so that an outboard AVR/prepro can decode and process the audio. Any player that is incapable of all this is not an "ideal transport." Apologies if you already knew this.

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post #134 of 663 Old 08-21-2008, 09:52 PM
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adidino -- There is one glaring error in your chart in post #1. The Pioneer BDP-51FD is not an Elite unit! Only the Pioneer BDP-05FD is an Elite model.

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post #135 of 663 Old 08-22-2008, 10:49 AM
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Can we add this player (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058911) to the chart?
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post #136 of 663 Old 08-22-2008, 12:39 PM
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What audio setting do I need to put my PS3 on in order for my denon 1909 receiver to display DTS-HD Master Audio?
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post #137 of 663 Old 08-22-2008, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willis52 View Post

What audio setting do I need to put my PS3 on in order for my denon 1909 receiver to display DTS-HD Master Audio?

That's the "aintgonnahappen" setting. Not to worry, though. The PS3 internally decodes the DTS-HD MA stream to LPCM and then transmits that to your receiver. It should display as LPCM, Multichannel PCM, or something similar. Decoding to LPCM is exactly what your 1909 would be doing as a first step if it did receive a bitstream.
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post #138 of 663 Old 08-22-2008, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willis52 View Post

What audio setting do I need to put my PS3 on in order for my denon 1909 receiver to display DTS-HD Master Audio?

You will never see DTS-HD MA light up on your receiver from the PS3 because the PS3 cannot bitstream. Set your HDMI Audio to LPCM and let the PS3 do the decoding. Your receiver will show "PCM" or something similar.

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post #139 of 663 Old 08-22-2008, 07:08 PM
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Am I missing something? Isn't the Marantz 8002 just a Denon DVD-3800BDCI with a different front bezel...?! [And the same $1,999 MSRP!] So, do they not have identical audio processing capabilities? The Page 1 chart says they are different...?!

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post #140 of 663 Old 08-23-2008, 12:48 PM
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IMO, there should be another "special cases" added. The two new Pioneer players (51/05) do not yet have DTS HD MA enabled. The chart doesn't differentiate whether the firmware that activates DTS HD MA (or any other HD audio) is available or not. As of right now, there is no scheduled date.
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post #141 of 663 Old 08-23-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyk View Post

IMO, there should be another "special cases" added. The two new Pioneer players (51/05) do not yet have DTS HD MA enabled. The chart doesn't differentiate whether the firmware that activates DTS HD MA (or any other HD audio) is available or not. As of right now, there is no scheduled date.

Yeah, I wouldn't include the ability until it is confirmed through the firmware update and not before. There's always the chance that it may be hardware limited and that it may not be possible. Yes, Pioneer has promised but let's not count chickens before they're hatched eh?

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post #142 of 663 Old 08-24-2008, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

adidino -- There is one glaring error in your chart in post #1. The Pioneer BDP-51FD is not an Elite unit! Only the Pioneer BDP-05FD is an Elite model.

I'll make the changes for the Sept edition.
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post #143 of 663 Old 08-24-2008, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyk View Post

IMO, there should be another "special cases" added. The two new Pioneer players (51/05) do not yet have DTS HD MA enabled. The chart doesn't differentiate whether the firmware that activates DTS HD MA (or any other HD audio) is available or not. As of right now, there is no scheduled date.

Sure it does. There is an (f) for firmware in the DTS MA block.
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post #144 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 01:20 AM
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Can we add the Pioneer BDP-09FD to the chart. It decode everything (Incliding HDMA) out of the box, is profile 2.0 and has 7.1 analogue out. Price is $2200 with a release at the end of this year. I think this thread might get a fair bit busier once CEDIA starts. The Yamaha needs adding too.
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post #145 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 04:53 AM
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Wow. Another standalone that costs more than my pre/pro.

What are they thinking?

Sony just dropped the cost of the s350 to 299.00 and a similar drop to the s550 is likely to follow.

Both the Panny bd35 and bd55 will have to compete with that as well.
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post #146 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Wow. Another standalone that costs more than my pre/pro.

What are they thinking?

Sony just dropped the cost of the s350 to 299.00 and a similar drop to the s550 is likely to follow.

Both the Panny bd35 and bd55 will have to compete with that as well.

Judging by the popularity of the Denon 3800, there is money to be made in the $2k+ realm.

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post #147 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 07:29 AM
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I have had an HD- DVD for some time now and I am about to seriously look at a Blu-ray. My only concern is the audio support. I need a player that decodes the new formats since my Pioneer elite is a couple years old. With the HD-DVD discs, there were very few that had DTS of any type. Mostly True HD and the ones that had DTS-HD had the Dolby True-HD also. Is having both the True-HD and the DTS-HD really necessary? The new Sony 350 looks nice and should be more affordable soon.
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post #148 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by iolmaster View Post

I have had an HD- DVD for some time now and I am about to seriously look at a Blu-ray. My only concern is the audio support. I need a player that decodes the new formats since my Pioneer elite is a couple years old. With the HD-DVD discs, there were very few that had DTS of any type. Mostly True HD and the ones that had DTS-HD had the Dolby True-HD also. Is having both the True-HD and the DTS-HD really necessary? The new Sony 350 looks nice and should be more affordable soon.

Welcome to the BD camp and yes, you will want DTS-HD MA decoding since all FOX, New Line, Universal, and most Liongsgate films are in DTS-HD MA. So unless you don't want to hear future versions of Star Wars or LOTR in all their lossless glory, I suggest you look for a player that decodes all.

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #149 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 08:37 AM
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EWL5
Thanks for the quick reply. My only other question would be, do the discs you mention
ie. FOX etc. have the Dolby True HD in addition to the DTS-HD? The few HD-DVD discs I found that had the DTS-HD tracks had the True-HD track also. That may not be true for BD. Again, thanks.
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post #150 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iolmaster View Post

EWL5
Thanks for the quick reply. My only other question would be, do the discs you mention
ie. FOX etc. have the Dolby True HD in addition to the DTS-HD? The few HD-DVD discs I found that had the DTS-HD tracks had the True-HD track also. That may not be true for BD. Again, thanks.

Very few have both TrueHD and DTS-HD MA on the same disc. Close Encounters BD comes to mind. There is normally only one lossless option and that's why you want all decoding possible in the player.

Which HD-DVD's had both? I only remember Pan's Labyrinth and that had only MA I thought.

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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