Bluray Player Audio Support Comparison Chart - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 10:40 AM
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It's been a while so I don't remember the details of which HD-DVDs had both. It may have only been one. Very few had anything to do with DTS-HD. I don't own movies for the most part so I can't go back and check. Your information is appreciated. For what it will probably cost, I would want decoding of both DD and DTS HD versions. Again, thanks.
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post #152 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iolmaster View Post

I have had an HD- DVD for some time now and I am about to seriously look at a Blu-ray. My only concern is the audio support. I need a player that decodes the new formats since my Pioneer elite is a couple years old. With the HD-DVD discs, there were very few that had DTS of any type. Mostly True HD and the ones that had DTS-HD had the Dolby True-HD also. Is having both the True-HD and the DTS-HD really necessary? The new Sony 350 looks nice and should be more affordable soon.

IMHO the difference between DD and TrueHD is very apparent and worth it. The different between DTS-HD MA and 1.5 mbit/ps DTS isn't as large. I would save your $$ and get the Sony 350. DTS-HD MA is not worth the extra expense to me. The core DTS sounds fantastic. TrueHD decoding is all you need.

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post #153 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Very few have both TrueHD and DTS-HD MA on the same disc. Close Encounters BD comes to mind. There is normally only one lossless option and that's why you want all decoding possible in the player.

Which HD-DVD's had both? I only remember Pan's Labyrinth and that had only MA I thought.

The SPV music HDDVD releases (I have UFO) had 5.1 DTS HDMA and TrueHD.General DTSHD on HDDVD was confined to Europe, Pan's Labyrinth was one of the few exceptions.
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post #154 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 01:58 PM
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I apologize.

Is the Sony BDP-BX1 Player on sale at Costco the same as the Sony S350? If not, which model would I compare it to?

Thanks for any help.

Clancy
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post #155 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClancyHusker View Post

I apologize.

Is the Sony BDP-BX1 Player on sale at Costco the same as the Sony S350? If not, which model would I compare it to?

Thanks for any help.

Clancy

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post #156 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Wow. Another standalone that costs more than my pre/pro.

What are they thinking?

Sony just dropped the cost of the s350 to 299.00 and a similar drop to the s550 is likely to follow.

Both the Panny bd35 and bd55 will have to compete with that as well.

I think this is going to be a trend. Some strongly believe the decoding should be done at the player. The more I look into this, the more I'm becoming convinced. If you notice, some new 7.1 analog preamps are being released. Parasound just announced a new Halo 7.1 analog piece.

hmmm...

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post #157 of 663 Old 08-25-2008, 08:27 PM
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I think that listing the average boot speed on the chart is beneficial.

I will buy a Blu Ray player when they get to be as fast as the current DVD players, and can pass all the video tests that we read about them failing in the reviews.

The specs on my ideal player would be profile 1.1 with the ability just to stream all the formats, I'd let my receiver do the decoding.

Hopefully by then more movies will support 7.1.

Maybe a purist version of the discs like "Superbit" will also be released.
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post #158 of 663 Old 08-27-2008, 10:26 AM
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And the winner is?

enjoyed reading this thread and all the hard work put into the chart..Don't have a BR player yet and my Onkyo TX Sr800 7.1 THX receiver doesn't have HDMI inputs..I like the Onkyo 805/806 receiver , but what player has it all for a newbie? Read article in S&V about PS3 the best out there.. thanks in advance..

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post #159 of 663 Old 08-27-2008, 10:29 AM
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Anybody have any info on the upcoming LG BD300? Can we add it to the matrix?
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post #160 of 663 Old 08-27-2008, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlamadeo View Post

Anybody have any info on the upcoming LG BD300? Can we add it to the matrix?

Its expected to have the same audio abilities as the BH200 but is profile 2.0, this is not yet confirmed though and I dont think the list allows rumours.
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post #161 of 663 Old 08-27-2008, 11:36 AM
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adidino, can you correct that chart? The Philips BD-P7200 WILL stream DTS-MA.
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post #162 of 663 Old 08-27-2008, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

Its expected to have the same audio abilities as the BH200 but is profile 2.0, this is not yet confirmed though and I dont think the list allows rumours.

Gotcha. It was featured in the latest copy of Electronic House but I think you are right with regards to there not being an official word on the release date.

I'm hoping it makes it for Q4, and at or under $400...
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post #163 of 663 Old 08-29-2008, 05:45 PM
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Firmware 4.2 for the Sony BDP-S300 has added Dolby TrueHD decoding.
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post #164 of 663 Old 08-30-2008, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlamadeo View Post

Gotcha. It was featured in the latest copy of Electronic House but I think you are right with regards to there not being an official word on the release date.

I'm hoping it makes it for Q4, and at or under $400...

Well the European release on Thursday said October for Europe at 500 Euros. I suspect a USA release within a month at $500 retail. It will be built on the underpinnings of the BH200 (Thats pretty much a good thing).
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post #165 of 663 Old 08-30-2008, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4mula1 View Post

adidino, can you correct that chart? The Philips BD-P7200 WILL stream DTS-MA.


That's what the chart has.. Am I missing something?

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post #166 of 663 Old 08-30-2008, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlamadeo View Post

Anybody have any info on the upcoming LG BD300? Can we add it to the matrix?

Only confirmed specs can be added to the matrix.

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post #167 of 663 Old 08-30-2008, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

The first post of this thread should be what you're looking for. There are still a couple of errors:

1) Panasonic BD50 can decode all to analog but is limited to 5.1. Right now it's showing orange instead of green.

2) Marantz BD8002 is a Denon 3800 clone and should be identical to the 3800's stats.

3) Pioneer 51FD and 05FD currently does not decode all. It's still waiting on firmware to decode DTS-HD MA.

4) The Panasonic BD10 does not decode DTS-HD MA to analog AFAIK. The green for analog should be changed to orange.

The players that decode all lossless to analog are:

Denon 3800
Marantz BD8002
Panasonic BD50 (5.1 outputs only)

In the future:

Sony S550
Pioneer 51FD
Pioneer Elite 05FD

Green means bitstream and decode. Orange means decode only.

in the analog section, 5.1 is orange, green is 7.1

I indicate (f) firmware needed for Pioneer 05/51 players for DTS MA

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post #168 of 663 Old 08-30-2008, 01:09 PM
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Is there any advice or direction to my question?? I've been told that not all Blu-ray devices are capable of sending video via hdmi while sending audio to the C2 contoller via digital optical.
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post #169 of 663 Old 08-30-2008, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4mula1 View Post
adidino, can you correct that chart? The Philips BD-P7200 WILL stream DTS-MA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post


That's what the chart has.. Am I missing something?

Actually, the BD-P7200 has a red rectangle for DTS-HD MA decdoding.
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post #170 of 663 Old 08-30-2008, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4mula1 View Post
adidino, can you correct that chart? The Philips BD-P7200 WILL stream DTS-MA.



Actually, the BD-P7200 has a red rectangle for DTS-HD MA decdoding.

So just decode? Is it due to a recent firmware? Does not stream DTS MA, correct?

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post #171 of 663 Old 08-31-2008, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

So just decode? Is it due to a recent firmware? Does not stream DTS MA, correct?

I don't know for a fact whether it does or not. I was just saying that 4mula1 has stated that it does bitstream DTS MA but the table has a red rectangle denoting that this player does not support the DTS MA codec. If it does bitstream, it should have a blue rectangle under DTS MA.
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post #172 of 663 Old 09-08-2008, 08:06 AM
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I still would like to know what is up with DTS-HD MA decoding in general. Even the new players (Pioneer 51, Sony 550) that are out or coming out still don't have decoding out of the box. Is it really that complicated compared to TrueHD? I have to wonder if it really a licensing issue more then a technology issue.

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post #173 of 663 Old 09-08-2008, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SKoprowski View Post

I still would like to know what is up with DTS-HD MA decoding in general. Even the new players (Pioneer 51, Sony 550) that are out or coming out still don't have decoding out of the box. Is it really that complicated compared to TrueHD? I have to wonder if it really a licensing issue more then a technology issue.

No, it is entirely a hardware/horsepower issue. The Denon 3800's got 2 32-bit DSP's that they grabbed from their receiver division. I don't know how Panasonic's doing it but there's a reason why it's not affordable to the masses either.

My personal belief is that the trouble to implement MA far outweighs the benefit. I've found the MA/HR core tracks to be quite similar to the higher bitrate ones they come from. The jump from lossy DTS to lossy core DTS is much higher than from lossy core DTS to even MA. Anyone else agree?

I guess DTS exists so that Dolby doesn't monopolize the audio license fees.

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post #174 of 663 Old 09-08-2008, 08:57 AM
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I agree EWL5. To put it in a nutshell, it's just really hard for the engineers to get it implemented with the "lower cost" hardware in the players.
There is a difference in sound quality between the lossless and the core, but like you said, not very much. ...and many people will argue that there is NO difference. I've heard both and think there IS a difference, but again, not night and day. If i were stuck with core only, I wouldn't be peeved off about it, because the difference is so small. ...but some people have been known to pay lots of money, even for a 1% better performance.

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post #175 of 663 Old 09-08-2008, 08:59 AM
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I'll add to what EWL5 has written. TrueHD is based on a fairly basic principle, called Meridian Lossless Packing. DTS has taken a more sophisticated route to achieve the same basic result, which requires more processing horsepower. On top of that, they've also added some bells and whistles that will probably never really be used (speaker remapping, for instance) which further adds to the processor burden. However, they have the major advantage (IMHO) of having the core lossy track included as part of the package, thus ensuring backwards compatibility without requiring a separate lossy audio track. Whether all of this is worth the extra processing power required to decode the lossless track, however, is up for debate.
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post #176 of 663 Old 09-08-2008, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugnax555 View Post

However, they have the major advantage (IMHO) of having the core lossy track included as part of the package, thus ensuring backwards compatibility without requiring a separate lossy audio track. Whether all of this is worth the extra processing power required to decode the lossless track, however, is up for debate.

This advantage would have been great for lower capacity media like HD-DVD that would have loved the space savings but dual-layered BD gives every studio room to breathe. You would never find the embarrassment of riches that Close Encounters BD gives on the defunct HD-DVD format.

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post #177 of 663 Old 09-08-2008, 09:29 AM
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Since we're talking about "speaker remapping"....

Anyone hear of any lawsuits against DTS/CE manufacturers for speakers that have been damaged due to deficient decoder implementation?

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post #178 of 663 Old 09-08-2008, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

This advantage would have been great for lower capacity media like HD-DVD that would have loved the space savings but dual-layered BD gives every studio room to breathe. You would never find the embarrassment of riches that Close Encounters BD gives on the defunct HD-DVD format.

I view it as more of an advantage for the people doing the authoring, as they don't really need to remember to create a separate DD encode and include it in the menus, or force the player to fallback to a hidden DD encode if TrueHD is selected on a setup that doesn't support it. But your point is absolutely true, too.
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post #179 of 663 Old 09-08-2008, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugnax555 View Post

I'll add to what EWL5 has written. TrueHD is based on a fairly basic principle, called Meridian Lossless Packing. DTS has taken a more sophisticated route to achieve the same basic result, which requires more processing horsepower. On top of that, they've also added some bells and whistles that will probably never really be used (speaker remapping, for instance) which further adds to the processor burden. However, they have the major advantage (IMHO) of having the core lossy track included as part of the package, thus ensuring backwards compatibility without requiring a separate lossy audio track. Whether all of this is worth the extra processing power required to decode the lossless track, however, is up for debate.

Because speaker remapping is an integral part of the SMPTE D-Cinema concept that "led to" Blu-Ray, it is perhaps simply that Dolby is moving to add it more slowly than has DTS. However, it is true that there are currently only a few references to speaker remapping on the Dolby web site:
  1. In the Dolby Trademark Usage on Video Disks document, pages 4 and 5 indicate 'approved' package markings for BDs authored with any of the 14 'new' [i.e., beyond 5.1] speaker positions.

  2. This graphic from the Dolby Media Producer web page shows 'alternate listening modes' labeled "7.1 Ts-Cs" ['Top Surround', 'Center Surround'] and "7.1 Vhl-Vhr" ['Left/Right Vertical Height' pair]. These two [Dolby] speaker configurations are the same as the DTS speaker configurations "7.1 Center Overhead" and "7.1 Side Height", respectively.

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post #180 of 663 Old 09-08-2008, 02:16 PM
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I kind of agree EWL5. I was at Circuit City the other day and they had a new Sony 350 set up with an Onkyo 606 receiver and full size Klipsch speakers. It was blaring a DTS-HD MA blu-ray demo disc. I thought- "wow that sounds good" only to discover they weren't bitstreaming and it was playing the DTS 1.5mbps core. I switched the 350 to bitstream the audio and the DTS-HD MA light lit up on the Onkyo. I couldn't tell a whole lot of difference at all. I was quite suprised- especially since it was playing on full size speakers all around. I think the difference between DD/DD+ and TrueHD is quite apparent but the difference between DTS-HD MA and the core 1.5mbps DTS is not as great.

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