Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Owners Thread / Vs 1.32 DTS-HD MA - Page 5 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 30827 Old 08-11-2008, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

************************************

"I've talked to a couple of credible individuals who say the 51FD is slightly better than the BD30"
Ok what do these folks bias your statement on. Do they have the non demo 51? If so what kind of displays are they using, what kind of calibration software do they use. Things like this i would like to know. And what is "slightly better"

I've heard the 51FD has a bit of an increase in sharpness and better color production - but I am not making any definitive statements until I see it for myself.

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post #122 of 30827 Old 08-11-2008, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Not to mention the build. Have you seen how cheap those pannies look! Even the sony players look like toys.

I am sorry I said that. What I meant to say is that I think the 51 offers a more solid, high-end box than some other players with similar prices.
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post #123 of 30827 Old 08-11-2008, 08:58 PM
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I've seen slight differences that make the 51FD better than the BD30. I definitely don't think it's a HUGE, HUGE difference, but it is better, PQ-wise.

Colors look better on it. I don't think that it necessarily has to do with the pairing of the 51FD with my Pro-151FD television, either. I think pairing it with any quality television will yield some appreciable differences.

It's currently slower than the BD-30 at initial load times, but I can say that the responsiveness when navigating the menus is certainly much smoother. That's even with the majority of the discs that I play on the "Demo" firmware...

While it's 'currently' slower, I can only imagine they will improve the load times as the player gets new firmwares.

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post #124 of 30827 Old 08-11-2008, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

Never imagined that the 51 would have a 3 second layer change

yeah, now I'm curious to see whether the BDP-05FD will be equal or better in this department?
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post #125 of 30827 Old 08-11-2008, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stipeman View Post

These loading times seem to be much faster than the times quoted by Ruined. CHP - can you be more specific about a particular disk and exactly what the start time and end time are in your measurement?

ok.. here goes: 18 -19 seconds power on to Pioneer Logo.
times are an average of three attempts.. variance range 2-5 seconds

National Treasure 2:
Close tray to "loading" display: 14 seconds
27 seconds to chapter one (14 seconds plus 13 seconds)

Resident Evil:
26 seconds from closing tray to chapter 1 screen.

I think this is pretty close to what Ruined had (see post 7)

Output video: Pioneer PDP
Output resolution: Direct Source (1080p/24 in this case 36bit dot by dot pure) - pic 4 and 5
HDMI control is set to on
Hi-Speed HDMI (See pic 7)
Color space: YCbCr 4:4:4

To be honest, I'm not too concerned about load times unless they are rediculous like some of the earlier models.
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post #126 of 30827 Old 08-11-2008, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

ok.. here goes: 18 -19 seconds power on to Pioneer Logo.
times are an average of three attempts.. variance range 2-5 seconds

National Treasure 2:
Close tray to "loading" display: 14 seconds
27 seconds to chapter one (14 seconds plus 13 seconds)

Resident Evil:
26 seconds from closing tray to chapter 1 screen.

I think this is pretty close to what Ruined had (see post 7)

Output video: Pioneer PDP
Output resolution: Direct Source (1080p/24 in this case 36bit dot by dot pure) - pic 4 and 5
HDMI control is set to on
Hi-Speed HDMI (See pic 7)
Color space: YCbCr 4:4:4

To be honest, I'm not too concerned about load times unless they are rediculous like some of the earlier models.
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I really really really this player... did I mention I really like it??

Nice. I like the menu much better than on the BD-95.

You sure are getting me excited with anticipation.

It looks like you have everthing set up right.

The load times are fine with me and anyway I would rather have the menu respond quickly. Finally the BDP-51 is looking like there now may exist the very real possibility that this one is the one to beat.
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post #127 of 30827 Old 08-11-2008, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingair View Post

Yes

So, what are the differences????

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post #128 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 12:02 AM
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If possible...

Can anyone confirm what company loaded the final v1.0 firmware on the currently shipping units? Was it loaded at the Pioneer factory (Japan), or was it a firm hired by Pioneer to do this (in the US)?

Also, how many units were shipped without the "final" firmware?
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post #129 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 01:49 AM
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before the crash some folks had mentioned lip sync issues. is there any when playing a movie or where they found after start/stop chapter skip etc. I could not abide watching a movie out of sync

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post #130 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklee View Post

I'm a little floored by the 3-second layer change that Ruined is reporting on SD DVD's... one would think that this would be better on a unit of this caliber, and this far into the maturity of optical video formats.

I'm fairly certain my Panasonic RP82 is about a second faster with layer changes (which are nonetheless still very noticable). At any rate, I am definitely planning on keeping the Panny in place, partly because of its DVD-Audio capability, and because its Faroudja de-interlacer provides excellent PQ with SD-DVD's.

Am I reading this correctly? If I have a big archive of SD DVDS and I want to watch an ordinary DVD now and then, I will be noticing a 3 second break in the middle of the movie when the layer changes? Is this normal for Bluray players, never noticed anything like it on my Pioneer DVD player?
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post #131 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 02:48 AM
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Once again, how is the SD playback? Better than XA2?

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post #132 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_0673 View Post

before the crash some folks had mentioned lip sync issues. is there any when playing a movie or where they found after start/stop chapter skip etc. I could not abide watching a movie out of sync

That was with 0.80a, I haven't found any lipsync issues with v1.0
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post #133 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanab View Post

Once again, how is the SD playback? Better than XA2?

significantly better than Panasonic BD30/BD50, significantly worse than XA2.
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post #134 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchener View Post

Is there a definitive, yet, on the differences between the 51 and the 05, beyond cosmetics and improved component video out (in the 05)?

No, although its possible the 05FD's remote's enter button may be less crappy
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post #135 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 03:53 AM
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Yesterday, I started to watch the Patriot Games BD, and did notice a lip sync problem after the attack on the british family member... However, when I switch the audio to french and other language and then back to english it was gone...
Very weird...

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post #136 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post

Yesterday, I started to watch the Patriot Games BD, and did notice a lip sync problem after the attack on the british family member... However, when I switch the audio to french and other language and then back to english it was gone...
Very weird...

Even with v1.0 final firmware, or were you watching with v0.80 demo firmware? I noticed a lot of lipsync issues with 0.80 but havent run into that issue with v1.0.
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post #137 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 05:22 AM
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I am sooooo tempted. My wallet is beginning to ache. I know my Kuro 6010 would be happy...someone shake some sense into me! I was holding out for a 2.0 player but the 51 is sure tempting.

Too tempting it turns out...I have ordered the player through Pioneer's site. I wonder how long it will take to ship.

I guess I now am in the Pioneer Blu family.

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post #138 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Even with v1.0 final firmware, or were you watching with v0.80 demo firmware? I noticed a lot of lipsync issues with 0.80 but havent run into that issue with v1.0.

With v1.0 firmware.

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post #139 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

ok.. here goes: 18 -19 seconds power on to Pioneer Logo. Times are an average of three attempts.. variance range 2-5 seconds. I think this is pretty close to what Ruined had

I think these numbers are fine
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post #140 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

************************************

"I've talked to a couple of credible individuals who say the 51FD is slightly better than the BD30"
Ok what do these folks bias your statement on. Do they have the non demo 51? If so what kind of displays are they using, what kind of calibration software do they use. Things like this i would like to know. And what is "slightly better"

I am skeptical too with the "hair"/slight sharper claims, seems like I have heard this before. The reality is that for videophiles, you may shell out bigger dollars to dissect the slight video differences among DVD players, to go down that road with bluray players, I think we are looking for something that may not be there. No, the answer is that we are addicted to this hobby and the BS that goes with it and the fact of the matter is that Pioneer makes an attractive player which is reason enough.
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post #141 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

So, what are the differences????

If you go back and read some of the posts that followed that original series the conflict comes from Pioneer Store stating there is a difference between the actual hardware used in the demo units sold last week by Best Buy and the production units currently available from the Pioneer direct stores.

Talking to Pioneer Tech yesterday, he stated under no uncertain terms, the hardware is exactly the same between the "demo" units sold by BB and those currently in stores and shipping to stores this week (and going forward). The only difference is the firmware.

The production firmware is available by calling Pioneer customer support. CS will arrange for production firmware to be shipped to those who bought the demo units from Best Buy.

Again all of this has already been hashed out in previous posts.

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post #142 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:02 AM
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New to this. I've had an Integra 9.8 for 2 weeks,FW 1.08; got my 51FD yesterday from Pioneer Store by mail, FW 1.0. Ruined, maybe you can answer this: I'm more concerned with getting SD to play correctly, haven't even tried BR yet. 51FD set up as source direct; no matter what I select on the 9.8 I get "HDMI through" on it. Picture and sound on HDMI on SD suck. Do you use seperate outputs, i.e. component and optical for SD and HDMI for BR? Thanks.
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post #143 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyGood View Post

I am skeptical too with the "hair"/slight sharper claims, seems like I have heard this before. The reality is that for videophiles, you may shell out bigger dollars to dissect the slight video differences among DVD players, to go down that road with bluray players, I think we are looking for something that may not be there. No, the answer is that we are addicted to this hobby and the BS that goes with it and the fact of the matter is that Pioneer makes an attractive player which is reason enough.

When a professional like Kris Deering states in his reviews he sees a difference, I personally believe that has some weight behind it. You can believe or don't believe what members see in their own set ups. But, in a controlled professional enviroment like Kris and other recognized professionals conduct their reviews....well, they have the ability to discern differences (even slight ones).

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post #144 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

ok.. here goes: 18 -19 seconds power on to Pioneer Logo.
times are an average of three attempts.. variance range 2-5 seconds

National Treasure 2:
Close tray to "loading" display: 14 seconds
27 seconds to chapter one (14 seconds plus 13 seconds)

Resident Evil:
26 seconds from closing tray to chapter 1 screen.

I think this is pretty close to what Ruined had (see post 7)

Output video: Pioneer PDP
Output resolution: Direct Source (1080p/24 in this case 36bit dot by dot pure) - pic 4 and 5
HDMI control is set to on
Hi-Speed HDMI (See pic 7)
Color space: YCbCr 4:4:4

To be honest, I'm not too concerned about load times unless they are rediculous like some of the earlier models.
pic4
pic5
pic6
pic7

I really really really this player... did I mention I really like it??

Is that 36bit dot by dot pure only displayed on the ELITE Kuro's? I have the 5080 and when the 51FD is set to 4:4:4 my 5080 reads 36 bit only. Just curious...
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post #145 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip913 View Post

New to this. I've had an Integra 9.8 for 2 weeks,FW 1.08; got my 51FD yesterday from Pioneer Store by mail, FW 1.0. Ruined, maybe you can answer this: I'm more concerned with getting SD to play correctly, haven't even tried BR yet. 51FD set up as source direct; no matter what I select on the 9.8 I get "HDMI through" on it. Picture and sound on HDMI on SD suck. Do you use seperate outputs, i.e. component and optical for SD and HDMI for BR? Thanks.

When you use source direct, the Pioneer is sending out a 480i signal and your projector/monitor is doing the scaling. Is that what you've done is past set ups? If not, try allowing the Pioneer to do the scaling ,which would require you to choose match the native resolution of your display with Pioneer's selected video output.

The sound sucking doesn't make sense. It would lead me to beleive your Pioneer is not set up properly or your Integra (probably the pioneer...assuming you've used other players with the Integra).

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post #146 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:30 AM
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I have a question for you guys. If you guys are stating that the sd dvd playback on the 51fd isnt as great as say a toshiba hd player im lost. I thought we were all in source direct mode and if that is so aren't we passing the discs native output on to the next connected device in the chain? I am wrong on this or are you changing the source direct to 1080p on the 51fd when playing sd-discs.

Also does anyone know what type of upscaler is in my Pioneer PDP-5010 my AVR has a Farojda dcdi.
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post #147 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denada View Post

Am I reading this correctly? If I have a big archive of SD DVDS and I want to watch an ordinary DVD now and then, I will be noticing a 3 second break in the middle of the movie when the layer changes? Is this normal for Bluray players, never noticed anything like it on my Pioneer DVD player?

It varies. Some SD DVD's are single layer. So no pause at all. Some have the layer change during a fade-to-black (Universal) so you don't notice the pause. Some DVD's have terrible layer changes (L.A. Confidential) and some are specifically mastered to NOT have layer changes (ALL Superbit titles).

I don't know of any Blu-ray player that doesn't have at least a tiny (.05 sec) layer change pause w/ (your average) SD DVD's.
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post #148 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip913 View Post

New to this. I've had an Integra 9.8 for 2 weeks,FW 1.08; got my 51FD yesterday from Pioneer Store by mail, FW 1.0. Ruined, maybe you can answer this: I'm more concerned with getting SD to play correctly, haven't even tried BR yet. 51FD set up as source direct; no matter what I select on the 9.8 I get "HDMI through" on it. Picture and sound on HDMI on SD suck. Do you use seperate outputs, i.e. component and optical for SD and HDMI for BR? Thanks.

You should be able to set the 9.8 for "1080p" instead of "Through" in the 9.8 HDMI setup menu. You need to do this in order to enable Reon processing, otherwise it will just pass 480i to your TV with Source Direct enabled.
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post #149 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined
Even with v1.0 final firmware, or were you watching with v0.80 demo firmware? I noticed a lot of lipsync issues with 0.80 but havent run into that issue with v1.0.

With v1.0 firmware.
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post #150 of 30827 Old 08-12-2008, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS View Post

Can anyone confirm what company loaded the final v1.0 firmware on the currently shipping units? Was it loaded at the Pioneer factory (Japan), or was it a firm hired by Pioneer to do this (in the US)?

I'm not sure we'll ever know the answer to this, but it doesn't really matter. Loading the firmware on the 51FD only requires you to insert a disc. So, if anyone has ever put a DVD in a DVD player in their lifetime, they have the experience to upgrade the firmware on this unit
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