Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Owners Thread / Vs 1.32 DTS-HD MA - Page 53 - AVS Forum
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post #1561 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 09:59 AM
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Ruined thanks for explaining the deep color issue like you did. That was what I was trying to get at, but you did it much better!
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post #1562 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 10:01 AM
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Just received my 51FD- no DEMO screen on start up...but I'm curious and
I can't seem to find an info screen.
Is there a way to check what FW is on the unit?
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post #1563 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 10:14 AM
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go to video output (16:9) in the home screen settings and press the BLUE button.
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post #1564 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

How would you erfute Audioholics and Jim Peterson of Lumagen?

Enfuting Lumagen is pretty simple. All of their current products will intrinsically lose value if Pioneer has tapped a new, useful, field of image processing here. In addition, Lumagen will also have to invest significant new amounts of R&D moneys in order to not fall behind Pioneer and other companies that employ this new form of image processing. Not to mention that any Lumagen products in the pipeline that do not have this technology will all of a sudden look a lot less shiny if color upconversion gains some traction.

So in Lumagen's case, it is obviously in their best interest to try and get it labelled as bunk so their company doesn't have to spend a whole bunch of money to update their products as a result of it.

Audioholics, well, that's just their opinion, man
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post #1565 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Audioholics, well, that's just their opinion, man

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post #1566 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 10:38 AM
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Hi Ruined, Regarding your very helpful post #7 on this thread, if you get the time, could you add a similar run-down on the 05FD? Thanks!
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post #1567 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by briansemerick View Post


The Dude has spoken......the Dude abides....

05-1.3H BJC-3808-1.3H BJC-5080
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post #1568 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Enfuting Lumagen is pretty simple. All of their current products will intrinsically lose value if Pioneer has tapped a new, useful, field of image processing here. In addition, Lumagen will also have to invest significant new amounts of R&D moneys in order to not fall behind Pioneer and other companies that employ this new form of image processing. Not to mention that any Lumagen products in the pipeline that do not have this technology will all of a sudden look a lot less shiny if color upconversion gains some traction.

So in Lumagen's case, it is obviously in their best interest to try and get it labelled as bunk so their company doesn't have to spend a whole bunch of money to update their products as a result of it.

Audioholics, well, that's just their opinion, man

Well, I hold Peterson to high regard. He is an expert. You calling him a liar so as to protect his business is ridiculous. What proof do you have of that? His excerpt from above makes sense to me.

This is pure drama.

We can agree to disagree.

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post #1569 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Well, I hold Peterson to high regard. He is an expert. You calling him a liar so as to protect his business is ridiculous. What proof do you have of that? His excerpt from above makes sense to me.

This is pure drama.

We can agree to disagree.

Come on, don't stop now. This is almost as much fun reading as when DNice and Umr duke it out.
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post #1570 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madkaw View Post

8894609

Thank you

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post #1571 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:03 AM
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The so called "experts" have absolutely no evidence to back of their theories. And as I stated Lumagen will say anything at this point since they are not HDMI 1.3. And they realize what a pain it is going to be when they have their "upgrade" program. If it weren't a big deal then why would they even comment on or specualte why it is a gimmick? As I reported until now it has been nearly impossible to test deep color or x.v. color and let's remember this is just a color "trick" that I am getting good results with. I can't wait until the "real" thing hits.

For my latest Reviews and Stuff google -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
Check out my Dolby Atmos/Surround first take:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1409517748063
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post #1572 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Enfuting Lumagen is pretty simple. All of their current products will intrinsically lose value if Pioneer has tapped a new, useful, field of image processing here. In addition, Lumagen will also have to invest significant new amounts of R&D moneys in order to not fall behind Pioneer and other companies that employ this new form of image processing. Not to mention that any Lumagen products in the pipeline that do not have this technology will all of a sudden look a lot less shiny if color upconversion gains some traction.

So in Lumagen's case, it is obviously in their best interest to try and get it labelled as bunk so their company doesn't have to spend a whole bunch of money to update their products as a result of it.

Audioholics, well, that's just their opinion, man

Also,

Now I know you are making all this up about 'Deep Color'... You even made up the word, 'enfute'. No such word...like no deep color trick!!

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1573 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:05 AM
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And let's remember this "expert" Jim Peterson has a product to push. A product which is expensive and does not have the ability to pass Deep Color or x.v. Color.

For my latest Reviews and Stuff google -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
Check out my Dolby Atmos/Surround first take:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1409517748063
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post #1574 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

The so called "experts" have absolutely no evidence to back of their theories. And as I stated Lumagen will say anything at this point since they are not HDMI 1.3. And they realize what a pain it is going to be when they have their "upgrade" program. If it weren't a big deal then why would they even comment on or specualte why it is a gimmick? As I reported until now it has been nearly impossible to test deep color or x.v. color and let's remember this is just a color "trick" that I am getting good results with. I can't wait until the "real" thing hits.

you'll be waiting a long, long time. like, until Blu-ray dies.
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post #1575 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Also,

Now I know you are making all this up about 'Deep Color'... You even made up the word, 'enfute'. No such word...like no deep color trick!!

I dont' think Ruined can take credit for enfute.

theband enfutes
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post #1576 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

The so called "experts" have absolutely no evidence to back of their theories. And as I stated Lumagen will say anything at this point since they are not HDMI 1.3. And they realize what a pain it is going to be when they have their "upgrade" program. If it weren't a big deal then why would they even comment on or specualte why it is a gimmick? As I reported until now it has been nearly impossible to test deep color or x.v. color and let's remember this is just a color "trick" that I am getting good results with. I can't wait until the "real" thing hits.

Jim's knowledge of all things video eclipses all commenters here. His comments make sense.

Their upgrade program is easy for 1.3. Send it in 1.2, get it back 1.3.

He commented as someone asked on the Lumagen forum. It was not a thread he started.

Testing is fine but the Blu Ray spec is the spec. And today's discs will show no improvement.

The real thing will never hit... I'm going to CEDIA to shop for a new PJ.. Possibly 4K or the new Projection Design Helios 1080P. Both will have the x.v. capability in it... but that is the last thing on my list of features I want.

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post #1577 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Bland, I'm not sure why you are being so stubborn about this when color upconversion is a fairly simple idea. It is not a bad thing nor is it something that can't necessarily improve the end result.


Your argument sounds like the one made by some DVD purists when HD upconverters arrived. They said that watching the DVD at 480p was the best, because it was the closest to the original signal. Clearly that was not the most bulletproof train of thinking.

He is being stubborn because his Denon doesn't have this capability,
so it must be hype.

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post #1578 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Well, I hold Peterson to high regard. He is an expert. You calling him a liar so as to protect his business is ridiculous.

How is that different than you accusing joerod of being on the take to say nice things about the 51?

Peterson's vested interest is clear, you have speculated about joerod in a very unpleasant way.
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post #1579 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:17 AM
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I doubt it. I truly believe Deep Color is right around the corner. Why else are we talking about this Deep color "trick" so much? You guys are part of the Bitstream over HDMI won't happen crowd.

For my latest Reviews and Stuff google -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
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post #1580 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

How is that different than you accusing joerod of being on the take to say nice things about the 51?

Peterson's vested interest is clear, you have speculated about joerod is a very unpleasant way.

Well, that's Joe's and my back and forth. Jim Peterson is a third party on the subject.. No need to bad mouth him if he's not even directly in the fray?

But since you brought it up, is that 906 free or discounted?

BTW - fun stuff for a Friday!

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1581 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:18 AM
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Thanks htwaits, for the record if anyone wants to see a receipt for my 51D I would be more than happy to send them a copy (credit card info marked out of course )...

For my latest Reviews and Stuff google -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
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post #1582 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:19 AM
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what in the wide wide world of sports is a goin on here, I am paying you people to try and get a little track laid...

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post #1583 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:20 AM
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Why do you keep bringing up the 906? That is an Onkyo product. The Pioneer 51FD is a Pioneer product. That does not make any sense.

Why would Onkyo send me a 906 to talk up the Pioneer 51FD?

For my latest Reviews and Stuff google -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
Check out my Dolby Atmos/Surround first take:
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post #1584 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I doubt it. I truly believe Deep Color is right around the corner. Why else are we talking about this Deep color "trick" so much? You guys are part of the Bitstream over HDMI won't happen crowd.


I'm more in the 'surprised Bitstream hasn't happened' crowd when it comes to the likes of Halcro, Meridian, Lexicon, and Theta.. Hope CEDIA dispels that..

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post #1585 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Your argument sounds like the one made by some DVD purists when HD upconverters arrived. They said that watching the DVD at 480p was the best, because it was the closest to the original signal. Clearly that was not the most bulletproof train of thinking.

Your ending statement is exactly what needs to be noted. If one is to say that Deep Colour, which to me sounds like a form of 'colour upconverting', is all hype and no substance; one might as well say the same about upscaling. That's my opinion, at least.
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post #1586 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Well, that's Joe's and my back and forth. Jim Peterson is a third party on the subject.. No need to bad mouth him if he's not even directly in the fray?

But since you brought it up, is that 906 free or discounted?

BTW - fun stuff for a Friday!

Very fun stuff.

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
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post #1587 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:22 AM
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Back on topic, for the actual owners of the 51FD I am planning a get together with some friends this weekend. I will get more opinions on the color "trick" from them... I will work on a few more screen shots as well...

For my latest Reviews and Stuff google -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
Check out my Dolby Atmos/Surround first take:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1409517748063
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post #1588 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Why do you keep bringing up the 906? That is an Onkyo product. The Pioneer 51FD is a Pioneer product. That does not make any sense.

I think he is saying you got it for free or discount because you like it.

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post #1589 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Back on topic, for the actual owners of the 51FD I am planning a get together with some friends this weekend. I will get more opinions on the color "trick" from them... I will work on a few more screen shots as well...

I would come check out your theatre if the plane ticket wasnt $771 bucks

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post #1590 of 30790 Old 08-22-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjs View Post

Your ending statement is exactly what needs to be noted. If one is to say that Deep Colour, which to me sounds like a form of 'colour upconverting', is all hype and no substance; one might as well say the same about upscaling. That's my opinion, at least.

+1

In the case of the new Pioneers it seems to be exactly that, color
upconversion, and some of the early owners seem to be impressed
with it so far.

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