Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Owners Thread / Vs 1.32 DTS-HD MA - Page 641 - AVS Forum
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post #19201 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Thanks for the update.

In addition to adding DTS-MA decoding does this firmware fix any known bugs?

Saturn lets hope so. Since we have the same bugs. You have the 51 and I have 05.
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post #19202 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 08:32 AM
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Re: Star Trek The Original Series BD's:

Anybody having sound issues (complete loss of audio during "Arena") w/ their player?

edit: Just did a search and I see there may be a compatibility problem. I would assume Pioneer is working on a firmware fix.
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post #19203 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

Re: Star Trek The Original Series BD's:

Anybody having sound issues (complete loss of audio during "Arena") w/ their player?

According to post #7 (and several posts that have been made about it), there are "Audio dropouts at branch points (i.e. 10:28)".

~kyle
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post #19204 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Yes it does IIRC.

I can give you the exact values later if you want that. I have been super busy lately, so my responses may be a bit delayed.

That would be great...no hurry, whenever you get the time.

...and as always, thanks for all your help!

~kyle
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post #19205 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Its a comin. But it is important that the final release is done right rather than just rushed out!

+1!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

I'll update you later, have been super busy lately. Will try to document issues found/fixed in post #7.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Murray View Post

Saturn lets hope so. Since we have the same bugs. You have the 51 and I have 05.

I would be surprised if our DVD issues are resolved. It's seems Pioneer's focus is on fixing BD issues, not DVD. You just need to break down and get that separate DVD player like I did.

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post #19206 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 08:57 AM
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Another issue that should be fixed by the firmware is the "no audio" and "wrong region" bugs. The 09FD firmware fixed that problem.

The 5.1 turning into 7.1 on 7.1 setups is not as bad a problem as you may think. I get around it by selecting 6 channel input on the receiver then letting the receiver apply Dolby PLIIx and Ultra 2 to the analogs.
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post #19207 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-tee View Post

Hi all,

I'm getting an older receiver from one of my neighbors, basically for free. It's a Pio VSX-1015TX and it looks like a pretty sweet receiver. It doesn't have HDMI, nor does it decode the lossless codecs. So, I would like to get some feedback on connecting it, as well as if I'll have any issues getting TrueHD and DTS-MA with my 51 (pending DTS-MA fw, of course). I'm guessing (hoping) that it will pass through as MPCM.

51FD via HDMI directly to my display, I'd prefer not to connect via component for SD upconversion
51FD via analog to VSX-1015
On the 51FD, set output terminal for video to HDMI
On the 51FD, set output terminal for audio to Analog

Will this work for me and will I be able to get the lossless codecs? Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Mike T

I have the same receiver and have it connected to an oppo BDP-83 using stereo & 5.1 analog and digital coax, with HDMI running straight to the display. It decodes and outputs TrueHD and DTS-MA over the multichannel analog outs, so the Pio BDP should do the same thing (once the firmware is released).

There is a dedicated Multichannel button on the receiver (but not on the remote ) that activates the 5.1 analog inputs. Note that the MCACC equalization isn't applied to the multichannel analog input, so you'll need to make adjustments in the Pio BDP settings.

For free, it will do what you want. I assume your neighbor is getting an AVR with HDMI & lossless decoding; you (and I) will eventually do the same. But the 1015 works for what you need.

Gerald

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post #19208 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 09:31 AM
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I put in a Blu Ray version of Iron Man this past weekend. It wont load or let me eject it. Just makes this horrible sound when I try. Anyone know of any other way to manually eject a disk from the 51's? I have already emailed Pioneer about this, but no response as of yet.
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post #19209 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

I'll update you later, have been super busy lately. Will try to document issues found/fixed in post #7.

Is this firmware singularly addressing dts hd ma or will it have an impact on speed/load times at all?
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post #19210 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

There is currently an issue with the release DTS-MA firmware for the 09FD/120/320/23FD w/7.1 setups when playing back -MA 5.1 soundtracks,

This makes me sad. I thought I was finally dialed in on the player I wanted to get with the 320. When I was still on the fence between the 51 and 320, I leaned toward the 2.0 player since I'm starting to hear things about new BD discs like T2:skynet edition and Valkyrie not playing in the 51.
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post #19211 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alma321 View Post

I put in a Blu Ray version of Iron Man this past weekend. It wont load or let me eject it. Just makes this horrible sound when I try. Anyone know of any other way to manually eject a disk from the 51's? I have already emailed Pioneer about this, but no response as of yet.

Have you tried pushing the eject button while the unit it is turned off? You may be able to eject it that way.

What version FW are you using? I've had no issues at all with Iron Man since it was first released.

~kyle
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post #19212 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemitchell View Post

Have you tried pushing the eject button while the unit it is turned off? You may be able to eject it that way.

What version FW are you using? I've had no issues at all with Iron Man since it was first released.

Yes, I have tried that. I've seen that movie at least have a dozen times on my player, never had issues. And I am using the latest 1.25 firmware version. Guess I will call Pioneer directly, since they are not responding to my email. Thanks.
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post #19213 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Its a comin. But it is important that the final release is done right rather than just rushed out!

Rushed out? No worries of that happening. Don't get me wrong, I really like my 51, but the speed at which Pioneer releases updates makes me worry about disc compatability in the future.

I really don't care about DTS-MA, I have that handled in my pre, but I really would like the speed/performance update that was promised many months ago. But looking at the performance of the 09 and newer players, I doubt will ever get that one.
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post #19214 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alma321 View Post

Yes, I have tried that. I've seen that movie at least have a dozen times on my player, never had issues. And I am using the latest 1.25 firmware version. Guess I will call Pioneer directly, since they are not responding to my email. Thanks.

Weird. Yep, I'd definitely try to call them. Good luck.

~kyle
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post #19215 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Is this firmware singularly addressing dts hd ma or will it have an impact on speed/load times at all?

I didn't notice anyone in the 09 thread say the speed/load times have changed, so I would think this firmware does not address this.

That said, it does appear that along with DTS-MA decoding, some other bugs have been fixed, at least for the 09, and since the 09 and 51/05 share the same SoC, I would think those fixes would apply to us as well.

I guess we will find out later.

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post #19216 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

I didn't notice anyone in the 09 thread say the speed/load times have changed, so I would think this firmware does not address this.

That said, it does appear that along with DTS-MA decoding, some other bugs have been fixed, at least for the 09, and since the 09 and 51/05 share the same SoC, I would think those fixes would apply to us as well.

I guess we will find out later.

Load times did improve on the 09FD between it's initial firmware and the first update:

Ver 2.24

CHANGE HISTORY:
- Enhances stability of BD-Java playback (*)
- Performance improvement

I haven't really noticed any improvement in subsequient updates. However compared to the 95FD the Java load indicators are like a dragster competing against an earthmover....

What could be hopeful is that there's not been a 51/05 update since 2/5/09. The loading time improvement could be included in the update, but I have not seen that mentioned in any descriptions of the next release.
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post #19217 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

Load times did improve on the 09FD between it's initial firmware and the first update:
---snip---

So are the current load times of the 09 quicker than the load times of the 51/05? I was under the impression that they were similar.

~kyle
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post #19218 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by williamzx11 View Post

rushed out? No worries of that happening. Don't get me wrong, i really like my 51, but the speed at which pioneer releases updates makes me worry about disc compatability in the future.

I really don't care about dts-ma, i have that handled in my pre, but i really would like the speed/performance update that was promised many months ago. But looking at the performance of the 09 and newer players, i doubt will ever get that one.

+1
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post #19219 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by kemitchell View Post

So are the current load times of the 09 quicker than the load times of the 51/05? I was under the impression that they were similar.

That I really can't compare personally because I only own the 95FD and the 09FD. I was replying to the statement where it was asked if 09FD firmware updates helped with load times. However I would say it's probably safe to say since 09 owners are not complaining about load times and 51/05 are, that either 09 owners are either very patient people or it's faster then the 51/05.
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post #19220 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

+1!!



Thanks.



I would be surprised if our DVD issues are resolved. It's seems Pioneer's focus is on fixing BD issues, not DVD. You just need to break down and get that separate DVD player like I did.

I put my Pionner Elite 59 DVD Player back on line about three weeks ago.
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post #19221 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raulbog View Post

I try to plug in my new 51 tonight and find that the connection between the female end of the AC power cord and the two male prongs on the player is loose. The player will turn on only if I hold the cord in place.

Has anybody else had this problem or does everybody else get a nice, snug fit?

The cord is labeled Volex PIC17BS.

Hello,
I had that exact same problem with my second BDP-51 I purchased. In my case it was at the female end, I am pretty sure it was caused by the stress of the IEC cable due to how I had routed the cable(pretty tough angle). I ended up exchanging it for another unit. However, I was able to make it work prior by making sure there was as little stress on the cable as possible.
Cheers,
AD

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post #19222 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

That I really can't compare personally because I only own the 95FD and the 09FD. I was replying to the statement where it was asked if 09FD firmware updates helped with load times. However I would say it's probably safe to say since 09 owners are not complaining about load times and 51/05 are, that either 09 owners are either very patient people or it's faster then the 51/05.

Thanks. I have been following the 09 thread and now that you mention it, I don't remember anyone complaining about load times so you're probably right.

~kyle
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post #19223 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by daniel murray View Post

i put my pionner elite 59 dvd player back on line about three weeks ago.:d

Gotcha.

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post #19224 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

I'll update you later, have been super busy lately. Will try to document issues found/fixed in post #7.

If you have a chance, can you see if the de-interlacing issues that some of us have been experiencing on DVDs, such as The X-Files TV series and Family Guy, have been resolved.

Thanks Ruined for your hard work and commitment to this thread.
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post #19225 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Does the 51 have trouble with burned CD's or DVD's?

thx


bob

I play quite a few DVD's recorded on 3 different standalone DVD recorders. The 51fd has played them all just fine! (I may have played one or 2 that I burned on computer).

Rick
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post #19226 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khlavkalash View Post

I have the same receiver and have it connected to an oppo BDP-83 using stereo & 5.1 analog and digital coax, with HDMI running straight to the display. It decodes and outputs TrueHD and DTS-MA over the multichannel analog outs, so the Pio BDP should do the same thing (once the firmware is released).

There is a dedicated Multichannel button on the receiver (but not on the remote ) that activates the 5.1 analog inputs. Note that the MCACC equalization isn't applied to the multichannel analog input, so you'll need to make adjustments in the Pio BDP settings.

For free, it will do what you want. I assume your neighbor is getting an AVR with HDMI & lossless decoding; you (and I) will eventually do the same. But the 1015 works for what you need.

Gerald

Thanks for your reply, Gerald. I'm not much with audio equipment but from research, (mostly in this forum) I figured it would work. Thanks for the additional info on the 1015, my neighbor is finally entering the world of BD.......May the Gods be with him, because I only told him about the good and not the bad. He has much more disposable income than I, so he is getting a new HDMI receiver with the new codecs. Thanks again.

Also, thanks to Kyle, Scott and DASHREDDER for your quick replies. Who needs CS support when you have this forum?

Mike T

My BDP-05FD, still going strong and still my favorite player!

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post #19227 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Guys, just to let you know the DTS-MA firmware is definitely coming, I can confirm it is working on the 51FD. It cannot be provided at this time due to its beta status.

Pioneer is working to ensure that the firmware we get is working properly since we have waited so long. There is currently an issue with the release DTS-MA firmware for the 09FD/120/320/23FD w/7.1 setups when playing back -MA 5.1 soundtracks, and I am hoping that issue is not repeated in the final -MA firmware for the 51FD (if you have only 5.1 you will be unaffected regardless). Pioneer is aware of the issue, and I guess it will boil down to whether they decide to tweak the 51FD FW or tweak the 09FD FW first, then port to 51FD. Aside from that it is looking pretty good, and my educated guess is that the final will land sometime in June. I am cautiously confident that it will be a good firmware. Will have more to report in coming days if ppl are interested.

Ruined, thanks as always. I had a feeling that we would soon be hearing from you regarding the new fw.

Mike T

My BDP-05FD, still going strong and still my favorite player!

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post #19228 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Its a comin. But it is important that the final release is done right rather than just rushed out!

I hear you Ruined, except Pioneer mentioned it would be supporting DTS-MA over a year ago. That's not exactly my definition of rushed.
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post #19229 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 04:03 PM
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Okay, so here's a brief update on what to expect in the firmware:

1. DTS-MA decoding is enabled. It works. However, there is a caveat with 7.1 systems that will likely not be fixed until the next firmware. This problem also exists with the current firmwares for the 09FD/320/23FD but was never really fully debugged for some reason by owners of said players. Basically if you have 7.1, the player upconverts all 5.1 soundtracks to 7.1 over both analog multich and HDMI. A recording I made confirms that the method used to do so is very primitive, a basic channel duplication with no matrix decoding of any sort (i.e., no DPLIIx, just a pure dupe of the surrounds for the rears). There may not be enough processing power for DPLIIx or the like, however if that is the case then the default behavior for HDMI should be 5.1 output for 5.1 soundtracks so users can enable the more advanced processing modes of their receivers. However there is not even an option to do so with this FW thus 7.1 users will be stuck with sub-optimal surround field until the next firmware unfortunately. While the method may be okay for multich analog where processors often cannot do 5.1>7.1, over HDMI pure 5.1 should be output so that we can use superior matrix decoding if the player cannot do this. IMO, a poor judgment call that will result in degraded surround field for 7.1 HDMI owners until the next firmware release. For analog multich owners there simply may not be enough processing power in the unit to perform an advanced matrixed DPLIIx decode on top of the DTS-MA, so the duplicate may be the best its going to get. Pioneer USA appears motivated to get the 5.1>7.1 HDMI issue fixed in the next firmware, however, from my understanding. Workaround for 7.1 HDMI owners is to bitstream if possible for optimal surround field until the next FW. Again, 5.1 owners are unaffected by this.

2. Star Trek dropouts are fixed. I was unable to duplicate them.

3. Standard DVD layer changes remain similar to 1.25a.

4. Overall player performance remains similar to 1.25a, maybe a bit faster but nothing groundbreaking.

5. DVD deinterlacing performance remains similar to 1.25a. Problem discs like "Noein vols 1-5" and "Family Guy vol 1" still have visible combing and/or aliasing.

6. Some of the few discs with menu lag appear to have gotten a minor speed boost, but there is still lag on some select discs as detailed in #7.

7. "An American Carol" is fixed, it no longer locks up when skipping trailers.

8. Variable crossover levels are 50/80/100/150.

9. Speaker delay times do not appear to be implemented yet.

10. Aladdin audio bug appears to be fixed, but I did not do a ton of testing on this.

I'm going to play more with the DTS-MA decoding on mis-encoded DTS titles like Die Hard 2, Pan's Labyrinth, and Harold & Kumar later to see how the player handles the mis-encoded streams. But the above info should set your expectations, at least.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy Cinavia-infected Blu-ray Discs! Why pay a premium for pseudo-lossless audio damaged by an intrusive watermark in the audible spectrum?
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post #19230 of 30730 Old 05-20-2009, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post

Okay, so here's a brief update on what to expect in the firmware:

1. DTS-MA decoding is enabled. It works. However, there is a caveat with 7.1 systems that will likely not be fixed until the next firmware. This problem also exists with the current firmwares for the 09FD/320/23FD but was never really fully debugged for some reason by owners of said players. Basically if you have 7.1, the player upconverts all 5.1 soundtracks to 7.1 over both analog multich and HDMI. A recording I made confirms that the method used to do so is very primitive, a basic channel duplication with no matrix decoding of any sort (i.e., no DPLIIx, just a pure dupe of the surrounds for the rears). There may not be enough processing power for DPLIIx or the like, however if that is the case then the default behavior for HDMI should be 5.1 output for 5.1 soundtracks so users can enable the more advanced processing modes of their receivers. However there is not even an option to do so with this FW thus 7.1 users will be stuck with sub-optimal surround field until the next firmware unfortunately. While the method may be okay for multich analog where processors often cannot do 5.1>7.1, over HDMI pure 5.1 should be output so that we can use superior matrix decoding if the player cannot do this. IMO, a poor judgment call that will result in degraded surround field for 7.1 HDMI owners until the next firmware release. For analog multich owners there simply may not be enough processing power in the unit to perform an advanced matrixed DPLIIx decode on top of the DTS-MA, so the duplicate may be the best its going to get. Pioneer USA appears motivated to get the 5.1>7.1 HDMI issue fixed in the next firmware, however, from my understanding.

2. Star Trek dropouts are fixed. I was unable to duplicate them.

3. Standard DVD layer changes remain similar to 1.25a.

4. Overall player performance remains similar to 1.25a.

5. DVD deinterlacing performance remains similar to 1.25a.

6. Some of the few discs with menu lag appear to have gotten a minor speed boost, but there is still lag on some select discs as detailed in #7.

7. "An American Carol" is fixed, it no longer locks up when skipping trailers.

8. Variable crossover levels are 50/80/100/150.

9. Speaker delay times do not appear to be implemented yet.

I'm going to play more with the DTS-MA decoding on mis-encoded DTS titles like Die Hard 2, Pan's Labyrinth, and Harold & Kumar later to see how the player handles the mis-encoded streams. But the above info should set your expectations, at least.


Thanks for the update Ruined. Since I bitstream to my SC-05, DTS-HDMA was not even a concern for me. What was a concern, was the brutal load and power times, sensitivity of the laser and standard dvd layer changes. To sum it up, even with this LONG awaited firmware release (which hasnt happened yet), this player remains a HUGE disappointment.
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