Official Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD & BDP-51FD Owners Thread / Vs 1.32 DTS-HD MA - Page 998 - AVS Forum
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post #29911 of 30790 Old 03-25-2012, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by gce View Post

I have a Bd from Netflix that has a white sticker on the picture side around the hole with a bar code on it. Is that what you're talking about? Haven't watched it yet but I'll let you know when I do. BTW, I'm hookup HDMI, I don't know if that will make a deference but will see.

Yes! That's the sticker. They just recently started using them I think. The last two discs had the audio problem. I plan to watch one of my own bd's to make sure my player is OK.
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post #29912 of 30790 Old 03-25-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNine View Post

Has anyone had the official Pioneer Firmware 1.72 disc not read on their player?

I have two Elite 05s that have run perfectly since day one (bought them both at launch) and I successfully upgraded one to 1.72 yesterday using the Pioneer mailed disc. My other 05 unit will not recognize the disc no matter what I do.

It plays all my movies fine. Never had this happen before in all the FW updates I've done over the past four years and I'm worried it's stuck at 1.65 now.

Anything I can try?

I would go here PIO WEB SITE And download it to another disc. You know how sensitive these players are. You may have something on the Pio disc. that your sensitive player is picking up.

Either that or wash your Pio disc in warm water with dish soap and blot it dry...that might work.
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post #29913 of 30790 Old 03-25-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNine View Post

Has anyone had the official Pioneer Firmware 1.72 disc not read on their player?

I have two Elite 05s that have run perfectly since day one (bought them both at launch) and I successfully upgraded one to 1.72 yesterday using the Pioneer mailed disc. My other 05 unit will not recognize the disc no matter what I do.

It plays all my movies fine. Never had this happen before in all the FW updates I've done over the past four years and I'm worried it's stuck at 1.65 now.

Anything I can try?

Have you tried playing a music CD in that particular 05 recently. I would try this to confirm your red laser is OK failure of these is pretty rare in the 51 and 05 but possible. If that is OK then either make a copy of the Pio CD or download and burn a fresh image from the Pio website and try that. Could be the Pio disc has incurred some minor damage but usually the 51 and 05 cope pretty well with CD/DVD it is Bluray they can be so finicky with particularly rentals or BD's with minor damage.

With the more recent firmware releases I have (touching wood and everything crossed) experienced no problems at all.

Best of luck and hope everything is OK
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post #29914 of 30790 Old 03-25-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick R View Post

Have you tried playing a music CD in that particular 05 recently. I would try this to confirm your red laser is OK failure of these is pretty rare in the 51 and 05 but possible. If that is OK then either make a copy of the Pio CD or download and burn a fresh image from the Pio website and try that. Could be the Pio disc has incurred some minor damage but usually the 51 and 05 cope pretty well with CD/DVD it is Bluray they can be so finicky with particularly rentals or BD's with minor damage.

With the more recent firmware releases I have (touching wood and everything crossed) experienced no problems at all.

Best of luck and hope everything is OK

Rick, thanks for this suggestion. I did not think to try this but you were correct. My one Elite 05 will not play any of my music CDs. The other one is fine.

So I guess the red laser is toast? No cheap fix I'm guessing. Darn.
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post #29915 of 30790 Old 03-25-2012, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNine View Post

Rick, thanks for this suggestion. I did not think to try this but you were correct. My one Elite 05 will not play any of my music CDs. The other one is fine.

So I guess the red laser is toast? No cheap fix I'm guessing. Darn.

Hi JackNine,

Really sorry to hear that and no I am pretty sure there is no cheap fix these transport units from Pioneer are pretty expensive (and rare I understand) plus shipping and labor costs. Only solution if you can find one is an 05 or 51 that has failed in some other way but the drive is OK I think it should be possible to replace it directly although I do remember something about drive initialisation. If you manage to lay your hands on a drive I have an 05 tech manual (somewhere) and could look to see if there is anything on replacing the drive.

By the way nothing lost try a lens cleaner first more remarkable miracles have happened make sure it is for bluray though.

Update
I have had a look a the technical manual for replacing the drive. Not simple there is an initialisation process which requires a sevice remote and a special disc to match numbers and other details between the mother board and the new drive. I recently noticed this is the case on some other Pioneer models like DVD/HDD recorders. So replacing the drive is not something the normal owner without some skill and special service tools can do on their own. So the choice is the cost of repair which I believe will equate to the cost of a mid range fairly decent player. I am not convinced this is the best option considering the number of people complaining about failed blue lasers bearing in mind the replacement drive will (most likely) be identical with the same generation of components as the original drives and therefore subject to the same undesirably high rate of failure we have seen posted in the past.

If it were me, as much as I really like my 05 (BDP-LX71) despite it's shortcomings and so far I have been really lucky, if mine decided to give up the ghost it would be a real disappointment, but I would be looking at alternative manufacturers models (Pioneer don't even seem to promote their Players and AVR's anymore).

I have been a Pioneer enthusiast for many years because of the reliability and quality of their products. But starting with this model and the promises not kept and the stupid issues of having to wait months for promised features, that despite it's excellent PQ and AQ it is not enough to retain my loyalty to Pioneer and be hit with uneccessarily excessive repair costs.
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post #29916 of 30790 Old 04-03-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNine View Post

No cheap fix I'm guessing. Darn.

Any chance you are still under warranty? Two years on Elite products.

My 05 is at Pioneer right now for this issue. Just got it in under the wire.
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post #29917 of 30790 Old 04-03-2012, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Yes! That's the sticker. They just recently started using them I think. The last two discs had the audio problem. I plan to watch one of my own bd's to make sure my player is OK.

I've played 2 bd's from Netflix now with the sticker on them with no sound problems! Have you tried one without the sticker yet?
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post #29918 of 30790 Old 04-03-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick R View Post

I would try this to confirm your red laser is OK failure of these is pretty rare in the 51 and 05 but possible.

I disagree that it is "rare." When my 05 failed, I researched and found a number of reports in this thread alone, experiencing the same issue. I have a "replacement" unit that I bought off eBay that is temperamental at best. I have no idea what's wrong with it, but I think I may have been ripped off.

I think Pioneer should cover this repair under RECALL. This kind of a major failure after less than 2 years of use? Come on. Hell, my DV-414 from 1998 still works.
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post #29919 of 30790 Old 04-03-2012, 02:22 PM
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Rick, There any work around solution to this by taking the new Transport drive unit and swapping out the on-board electronic circuit board with the old one from the transport drive thats failed. Reason why I'm asking is that xbox game consoles does a similar thing with there drives and consoles, each one is matched via firmware data to the drive and console. I found that swapping out the new circuit board on the new drive with the one thats on the failed drive keeps the match code so that the console doesn't see the change or need any initialization process. We tried this once on my buddies sons xbox and it worked.

Just curious if this could be a work around for Pioneer drives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick R View Post

Hi JackNine,

Really sorry to hear that and no I am pretty sure there is no cheap fix these transport units from Pioneer are pretty expensive (and rare I understand) plus shipping and labor costs. Only solution if you can find one is an 05 or 51 that has failed in some other way but the drive is OK I think it should be possible to replace it directly although I do remember something about drive initialisation. If you manage to lay your hands on a drive I have an 05 tech manual (somewhere) and could look to see if there is anything on replacing the drive.

By the way nothing lost try a lens cleaner first more remarkable miracles have happened make sure it is for bluray though.

Update
I have had a look a the technical manual for replacing the drive. Not simple there is an initialisation process which requires a sevice remote and a special disc to match numbers and other details between the mother board and the new drive. I recently noticed this is the case on some other Pioneer models like DVD/HDD recorders. So replacing the drive is not something the normal owner without some skill and special service tools can do on their own. So the choice is the cost of repair which I believe will equate to the cost of a mid range fairly decent player. I am not convinced this is the best option considering the number of people complaining about failed blue lasers bearing in mind the replacement drive will (most likely) be identical with the same generation of components as the original drives and therefore subject to the same undesirably high rate of failure we have seen posted in the past.

If it were me, as much as I really like my 05 (BDP-LX71) despite it's shortcomings and so far I have been really lucky, if mine decided to give up the ghost it would be a real disappointment, but I would be looking at alternative manufacturers models (Pioneer don't even seem to promote their Players and AVR's anymore).

I have been a Pioneer enthusiast for many years because of the reliability and quality of their products. But starting with this model and the promises not kept and the stupid issues of having to wait months for promised features, that despite it's excellent PQ and AQ it is not enough to retain my loyalty to Pioneer and be hit with uneccessarily excessive repair costs.

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post #29920 of 30790 Old 04-03-2012, 04:58 PM
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Unfortunately, reliability and quality of any manufacturer now is suspect, whether it be Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer or Sony. I feel that some brands (Denon and Onkyo) have really gone downhill. Every Denon and Onkyo product I have bought recently has had problems that required servicing, and this was for their TOTL products.

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post #29921 of 30790 Old 04-04-2012, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryNutz View Post

Rick, There any work around solution to this by taking the new Transport drive unit and swapping out the on-board electronic circuit board with the old one from the transport drive thats failed. Reason why I'm asking is that xbox game consoles does a similar thing with there drives and consoles, each one is matched via firmware data to the drive and console. I found that swapping out the new circuit board on the new drive with the one thats on the failed drive keeps the match code so that the console doesn't see the change or need any initialization process. We tried this once on my buddies sons xbox and it worked.

Just curious if this could be a work around for Pioneer drives.

To replace the drive you will need a service remote, the ID Data disk from Pioneer, and the CPRM ID for the machine and of course the new drive. The Pioneer service manual might also be helpful. There is the possibility that you can brick the machine as well.

This is all doable if you're willing to spend the time and money and have the skill to do it.

IMO and to be honest, if you really feel that you must have one of these machines, it's probably a better idea and a cheaper alternative to look for a used one. The BDP 05FD and 51FD are four year old machines now and really, they looked better on paper than they really were/are.

Your board swap idea might work and then again it might not. It's still probably cheaper to buy a used working machine than a new drive to take apart and swap the board.
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post #29922 of 30790 Old 04-04-2012, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by nealgrof View Post

I disagree that it is "rare." When my 05 failed, I researched and found a number of reports in this thread alone, experiencing the same issue. I have a "replacement" unit that I bought off eBay that is temperamental at best. I have no idea what's wrong with it, but I think I may have been ripped off.

I think Pioneer should cover this repair under RECALL. This kind of a major failure after less than 2 years of use? Come on. Hell, my DV-414 from 1998 still works.

Hi Neal,

Yes there has been a few red laser failures posted but I think my comment of 'fairly rare' considering the number of models sold is not out of context. But even so this is not nearly so many as blue laser failures, which is quite a lot, if my memory serves me correctly.

I fully agree with this part of your post wholeheartedly and one reason as a long time Pioneer customer I would now look elsewhere.
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post #29923 of 30790 Old 04-04-2012, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by FurryNutz View Post

Rick, There any work around solution to this by taking the new Transport drive unit and swapping out the on-board electronic circuit board with the old one from the transport drive thats failed. Reason why I'm asking is that xbox game consoles does a similar thing with there drives and consoles, each one is matched via firmware data to the drive and console. I found that swapping out the new circuit board on the new drive with the one thats on the failed drive keeps the match code so that the console doesn't see the change or need any initialization process. We tried this once on my buddies sons xbox and it worked.

Just curious if this could be a work around for Pioneer drives.

I guess replacing the motherboard and drive together might work.

But I agree with all of b curry's post, as he and I said you need the service remote the disc which is used to initialize the drive and I would also agree that the service manual is necessary and the necessary technical understanding and skill's to attempt either task. It would not be something to be undertaken lightly but if no other option and nothing to lose eg dead player and given all the above is available, why not?

The thing is the other posters player is still functional to a point, it still plays blurays although he can't update it and it won't play some media, but he can still use it for most of his existing collection of blurays. He has two one of which is OK. If I were him I would work this one to death on bluray and preserve his other player for when this one dies completely
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post #29924 of 30790 Old 04-04-2012, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick R View Post

I guess replacing the motherboard and drive together might work. ...

Rick, in this case as he suggested, I believe he would have to swap out the boards (electronics) on the drives only. You would then be using the new drive "mechanicals" with the old drive electronics keeping the proper electronic ID credentials to match up with the players motherboard.

A new drive for these machines, if you can find one, is typically north of $200. You can buy a used machine for less. If you bought a working used machine, why bother to change the drive out?

If the argument to save the machine for the analog out's of the 05/51, then I would suggest one's money is better spent on a new AVR or pre/pro with good DAC's and utilization of HDMI as we are well into the "Analog Sunset".
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post #29925 of 30790 Old 04-04-2012, 10:07 AM
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I agree some technical knowledge is needed. I don't think the svc remote is needed if there was just a board swap out.

This is just a alternative work around.

I agree with B curry though, spending time and money to save a failed unit for this player could come in to question. I suppose it's all up to the owner and what they desire to do. It's a shame companies don't offer better paths and more cost effective ways to fixed these players. They are really good. We spend all this money on these player buying them only to eventually buy something else or something new. Eventually BD will be headed into the sunset as well.

We need a better way of consuming and manufacturing. It's a shame we all agreed years ago that U.S. consumers wanted things cheap. We sure are getting what we wanted aren't we.
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post #29926 of 30790 Old 04-05-2012, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Rick, in this case as he suggested, I believe he would have to swap out the boards (electronics) on the drives only. You would then be using the new drive "mechanicals" with the old drive electronics keeping the proper electronic ID credentials to match up with the players motherboard.

A new drive for these machines, if you can find one, is typically north of $200. You can buy a used machine for less. If you bought a working used machine, why bother to change the drive out?

If the argument to save the machine for the analog out's of the 05/51, then I would suggest one's money is better spent on a new AVR or pre/pro with good DAC's and utilization of HDMI as we are well into the "Analog Sunset".

Yeah I misread that, I was thinking main board and the complete drive and could not really see the point also the whole task of swopping the electronics board in the drive is a rather more delicate task requiring a deft touch and some experience.

I think we are both on the same wavelength here and the price of repair and spares is extortionate. There is really nothing to be gained going that way as I said earlier.

Again I agree with all your post it makes logical sense
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post #29927 of 30790 Old 04-05-2012, 12:33 PM
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Is there a part number listing or model for these drives? Just curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryNutz View Post

I agree some technical knowledge is needed. I don't think the svc remote is needed if there was just a board swap out.

This is just a alternative work around.

I agree with B curry though, spending time and money to save a failed unit for this player could come in to question. I suppose it's all up to the owner and what they desire to do. It's a shame companies don't offer better paths and more cost effective ways to fixed these players. They are really good. We spend all this money on these player buying them only to eventually buy something else or something new. Eventually BD will be headed into the sunset as well.

We need a better way of consuming and manufacturing. It's a shame we all agreed years ago that U.S. consumers wanted things cheap. We sure are getting what we wanted aren't we.

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post #29928 of 30790 Old 04-05-2012, 04:17 PM
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I understand the drives are expensive and are now hard to get. It might just be eaiser to buy used units... I was able to buy a couple of used BDP-051s for $100 each... That should keep me good for awhile. I also make sure I update all the players when new firmware are released so I should not have any issues swappign the drives. The only caveat is that the early players used IDE drives and I think later ones used SATA interfaces....

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post #29929 of 30790 Old 04-05-2012, 04:54 PM
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I have 2 near mint 51's if someones that interested. Not going to give them away but will def entettsin an offer. Think i probably have original packaging for both
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post #29930 of 30790 Old 04-05-2012, 04:54 PM
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Entertain
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Sorry to read about issues/failures with these Pioneer player models. I've been very lucky with my BDP-05FD unit, it has played beautifully since I originally purchased it brand-new (initial release). I have taken good care of it too (periodically removing dust, etc.,...).

Matter of fact my BDP-05FD has out-played my high-end, more expensive, Denon players (DVD-3930CI & DVD-3800BDCI). Both these Denon players have been back to the factory for laser replacement a few times. This was all very perplexing to me at the time.

Seems most older player models (of various brands, even Denon) operate mostly consistent and clean for years, hardly hear of laser failure. Although I know it is not un-common to hear of some randomn skipping. But somehow these, much more modern, updated (Denon) players just can't play consistently over a significant period of time. Knock-on-wood, my DVD-3930CI has run fine for a few years now (after three laser replacements). I use it for dedicated music playing these days (CD, SACD, DVD-A, HDCD). The sound is incredible though.

But my BDP-05FD has been my "go-to" player for movies and sometimes CD's. It is rock-steady, and yields just exceptional picture quality playing to my Kuro display.

Little-by-little I'm graduating to three new Oppo players (BDP-83, BDP-93, BDP-95). So far the BDP-93 is really nice (I have to admit). Really hard to compare picture to BDP-05FD from memory (both are nice).
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post #29932 of 30790 Old 04-05-2012, 06:15 PM
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Entertain

t-town, just a friendly FYI. There is a box in the lower right hand side of your post that will allow you to make an edit to your post. Just click it, make your edit and click save. You won't have to make a separate post for the correction.
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post #29934 of 30790 Old 04-05-2012, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryNutz View Post

Is there a part number listing or model for these drives? Just curious.

Yes, the Pioneer part number is: VXX3325 MECH DRIVE ASSY.

The price listed at Pioneer Service is $427.50 USD.

Pioneer Service also says that the VXX3325 MECHANICAL DRIVE ASSEMBLY is no longer available for purchase.



EDIT: A quick Google Search finds VXX3325 drives available for a low price of $480.00 to over $600.00.

http://www.partstore.com/Part/Pionee...X3325/New.aspx
http://www.pacparts.com/model.cfm?mf...ck=0&mode=auto
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post #29935 of 30790 Old 04-05-2012, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

The price listed at Pioneer Service is $427.50 USD.
Pioneer Service also says that the VXX3325 MECHANICAL DRIVE ASSEMBLY is no longer available for purchase.

EDIT: A quick Google Search finds VXX3325 drives available for a low price of $480.00 to over $600.00]

wow, would have never guessed that amount. The BDP-05FD retails for $799.00 (price I paid)
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post #29936 of 30790 Old 04-06-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Yes, the Pioneer part number is: VXX3325 MECH DRIVE ASSY.

The price listed at Pioneer Service is $427.50 USD.

Pioneer Service also says that the VXX3325 MECHANICAL DRIVE ASSEMBLY is no longer available for purchase.



EDIT: A quick Google Search finds VXX3325 drives available for a low price of $480.00 to over $600.00.

http://www.partstore.com/Part/Pionee...X3325/New.aspx
http://www.pacparts.com/model.cfm?mf...ck=0&mode=auto

As with any industry they make their money on parts, but $480.00 to over $600.00 for the drive is criminal. The 51FD retailed for $599.00 and I paid less than that when I purchased mine in September '08. If people are that nostalgic for the 51FD or the 05FD, then USED is definitely the way to go.

Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD

Zektor MAS7.1

Classé CA-2200/CA-5200

Oppo BDP-105, Denon DVD-5910CI, Cambridge 752BD, Cambridge 640C V2

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post #29937 of 30790 Old 04-06-2012, 11:50 AM
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The reason why the drives probably fail is that they were first generation units. The drives get more reliable as they work out the engineering and design issues...

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #29938 of 30790 Old 04-06-2012, 07:26 PM
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The reason why the drives probably fail is that they were first generation units. The drives get more reliable as they work out the engineering and design issues...

Jon,

I agree with you, but replacing these drives on the 05FD and 51FD is money poorly spent with probably no more than a 90 day warranty from Pioneer. However, it is not my money.

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post #29939 of 30790 Old 04-06-2012, 08:51 PM
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The reason why the drives probably fail is that they were first generation units. The drives get more reliable as they work out the engineering and design issues...

Possibly, but I think these are second generation drives, maybe third.

Pioneer OEM'd the Sony BDP-S1 released in October 2006 and then released their own version, nearly a twin, the BDP-HD1 shortly after in January 2007. Pioneer followed quickly with the BDP-94HD, August 2007 and BDP-95FD, September 2007. The BDP-05FD and BDP-51FD drives do not cross reference with any of these older units.

I have a Sony BDP-S1 that continues to play any Blu-ray or DVD without fail; at this point a bullet proof first gen machine with a Pioneer drive.

Who knows what the reason might be. Some people, in this thread, anecdotally report rock solid performance and others have reported everything under the sun that could go wrong, has gone wrong with the BDP-05FD and BDP-51FD.

The time that the BDP-05FD, BDP-51FD, and BDP-09 came to market Pioneer was under severe financial pressure, bleeding money, and near bankrupt. All three of those machines have had anecodotally poor service history. Short cuts in the assembly process, poor quality control, who really knows what may have happened?

Pioneer is primarly an OEM automotive supplier now. Its days as a high profile or quality mid-fi CE company are behind them IMHO. Digital media and digital media playback has become a great equalizer for CE products.
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post #29940 of 30790 Old 04-06-2012, 09:53 PM
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Pioneer followed quickly with the BDP-94HD, August 2007 and BDP-95FD, September 2007. The BDP-05FD and BDP-51FD drives do not cross reference with any of these older units

this is interesting, I remember well the BDP-94 and BDP-95 models, they faired pretty well as I remember? (maybe I'll have to go back and browse those threads) I can't remember these units having excessive drive failures combined with other assorted issues- correct me if I'm wrong? These were 1rst-generation BD products.
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