The Official Sony BDP-S550 Owner's Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poddie View Post

This is what I don't understand; it was my assumption that the "ultimate" setup would include the ability to mix the lossless audio with the secondary audio in the player and pass it via HDMI in PCM.

A step down from that would be for the player to at least be able to intelligently pass lossless when not mixing and lossy when mixing without having to navigate through a setup menu (and more importantly, remember to turn it back to Direct afterward). My only guess on why this isn't done is that there is always the potential for secondary audio to be mixed in, and the player would then have to flip back and forth; for example, bringing up the pop-up menu on many discs has sounds associated with it.

However, this IMO makes it no better than the S350 if you have a receiver that does DTS HD Master decoding over HDMI; you will have to remember to flip the mix/direct setting either way if you want lossless for your main soundtrack listening. Is this how it is supposed to be?

Also, as I have repeatedly mentioned in various other posts, I don't understand why they don't at least give a simple toggle button on the remote to make the switch. They could at least make it easy, but it seems they don't want to.

So many poor design decisions that I just don't understand. The S350/S550 are awesome, but the way they handle DTS HD Master is just plain silly.

Is anyone aware of a player (other than the power sucking, non-IR PS3) that will simply mix using the lossless DTS HD MA? I just want a "set it and don't worry about it again setting that will always give me the best audio; I don't understand why this is so difficult. Although, I then suppose I will still have to remember to switch the soundtracks on some of the discs to lossless after inserting them. This is one area where the Blu-ray standard should have been much more automated...

This "ideal" mixing you are describing does not exist on a standalone player in the S550's price bracket. It does work as you describe in the $2k Denon 3800 and Marantz 8200.

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post #362 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poddie View Post

This is what I don't understand; it was my assumption that the "ultimate" setup would include the ability to mix the lossless audio with the secondary audio in the player and pass it via HDMI in PCM.

...

I wouldn't consider the secondary audio issue that important. I'd rather just skip straight to the movie anyway and it doesn't bother me to have popup menus silent. You don't get it via bitstreaming either.

I'd rather have a complete decoding player out of the box (that works) for MSRP 399.
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post #363 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

This "ideal" mixing you are describing does not exist on a standalone player in the S550's price bracket. It does work as you describe in the $2k Denon 3800 and Marantz 8200.

And those players don't decode DTS-HR.
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post #364 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

And those players don't decode DTS-HR.

True, but how many HR discs do you own? I only want it for bragging rights. HR is not going to sound a whole lot different from the "core."

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post #365 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Nice to see no glaring problems right out of the box.

The fact that it doesn't do slo-mo or frame advance are glaring problems in my eyes...

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post #366 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 06:18 AM
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I'm psyched about the BD results I'm reading here, but also need to play a closetful of CDs usning the BD player I buy.

Music CDs -- Anyone have comments on how the 550 sounds with standard CDs?
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post #367 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poddie View Post

This is what I don't understand; it was my assumption that the "ultimate" setup would include the ability to mix the lossless audio with the secondary audio in the player and pass it via HDMI in PCM.

A step down from that would be for the player to at least be able to intelligently pass lossless when not mixing and lossy when mixing without having to navigate through a setup menu (and more importantly, remember to turn it back to Direct afterward). My only guess on why this isn't done is that there is always the potential for secondary audio to be mixed in, and the player would then have to flip back and forth; for example, bringing up the pop-up menu on many discs has sounds associated with it.

However, this IMO makes it no better than the S350 if you have a receiver that does DTS HD Master decoding over HDMI; you will have to remember to flip the mix/direct setting either way if you want lossless for your main soundtrack listening. Is this how it is supposed to be?

Also, as I have repeatedly mentioned in various other posts, I don't understand why they don't at least give a simple toggle button on the remote to make the switch. They could at least make it easy, but it seems they don't want to.

So many poor design decisions that I just don't understand. The S350/S550 are awesome, but the way they handle DTS HD Master is just plain silly.

Is anyone aware of a player (other than the power sucking, non-IR PS3) that will simply mix using the lossless DTS HD MA? I just want a "set it and don't worry about it again setting that will always give me the best audio; I don't understand why this is so difficult. Although, I then suppose I will still have to remember to switch the soundtracks on some of the discs to lossless after inserting them. This is one area where the Blu-ray standard should have been much more automated...

It only has this behavior with DTS-HD audio and not Dolby TrueHD.
I'm a little disappointed that it doesn't intelligently handle the "mix" option when dealing with DTS-HD as this happens on all DTS-HD discs regardless of whether they include secondary audio or not.

Erik
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post #368 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 07:03 AM
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I'm considering buying the S550 as my first blu player. One of the features that I take advantage of on my HDXA2 is the ability to simultaneously output on the 5.1 analog and the coax digital out. This way I am able to feed two separate receivers that operate two separate rooms in my home without making audio setup changes at the player each time I switch watching locations. My guess is that the S550 won't do the same. Is that correct?
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post #369 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 08:56 AM
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Does anyone know if the line out 2ch analog outputs output the same lossless audio as the multichannel ones? If so does it mix the LFE in both L and R? I just have a stereo setup so I was wondering how I can get the LFE mixed in with the L and R channels. I have the EMU 1616 PCI with the dock and I was thinking i could hook up the multi channel L and R and LFE outputs to the dock but if the 2 other analog outputs on the player does this it would cut down on cable clutter and cost.
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post #370 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanramon94582 View Post

How do I verify if the player is truly decoding DTS-HD MA for analog out set up?

When my set up is Multi-channel analog, BD Audio Direct, and receiver input Ext in. I hit display button and see DTS-HD MA.

I suspect the Display mode shows how the disc labels the track, not what is passing through.

Anyone know of a different way to verify if the player decodes? thanks!

Frankly, the best way to tell if you are getting the DTS-HD MA via analog is with your EARS! Yes, you need quality speakers/set-up, but IMHO and on my set-up, lossless trumps lossy everytime. The differences can sometimes be subtle, but they are there. This is on my XA-1 HD DVD player and True-HD.
My S550 arrives tomorrow from Sony!
I would suggest you hook up your Sony not only with the analogs, but also with digital coax/toslink and simply compare the analog vs digital signal via toggling on your receiver's remote control. Since you'll be getting the lossy DTS core via digital, you 'should' be able to HEAR the difference if indeed you're getting the lossless DTS-HD MA encode via analog. I'm sure you are, as others in this very thread have confirmed with testing. Good luck.
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post #371 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 09:07 AM
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Please could anyone test the playback of SD DVD PAL and NTSC titles.
I have many of both. Thanks
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post #372 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

I wouldn't consider the secondary audio issue that important. I'd rather just skip straight to the movie anyway and it doesn't bother me to have popup menus silent. You don't get it via bitstreaming either.

I'd rather have a complete decoding player out of the box (that works) for MSRP 399.

Agreed...I took advantage of the sonystyle CC option for a lot less than MSRP! No brainer if wanting to get BR now.

Not trying to be too critical of people who complain about 'mix' vs. 'direct' for audio...but seriously...how difficult is it to take 5 to 10 seconds to go to the menu to change between the two if you'd like to listen to a commentary track?? My guess is some of these very same people won't bat an eye when waiting in line a lot longer than that at a restaurant, burger joint or the post office! I don't get it. Can't wait to set my S550 up this weekend...
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post #373 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 11:06 AM
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Just curious if those, who are taking advantage of the Sony CC discount offer, plan to cancel the card after paying the bill or continue to carry it? Also, does the card have an annual fee? And if you cancel the card, are you concerned about how that may affect your credit rating?
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post #374 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 11:33 AM
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I assume there are no problems getting true lossless (True HD or DTS-MA) when sending analog signal from 550 to a 5.1 setup, regardless of what blu-ray disc. Right?

That being said, if I connect to my old 5.1 receiver via analog and set surround backs to none on the 550, what will the 550 do with the sound that was supposed to go to surround back? Will it send the sound to surround left and right?

Thanks in advance.
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post #375 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150zx View Post

Frankly, the best way to tell if you are getting the DTS-HD MA via analog is with your EARS!

Thanks 5150zx. I toggle between optical (dts) and ext in (dts-hd) and the difference is very obvious. I watched Forbidden Kingdom and felt that the actions and special effects are all over my living room... like I'm actually getting punched and my own floor is cracking. those bass, oh my! At the end that's a fabulous reward.
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post #376 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jbernardis View Post

Yes it is possible to turn off BD-Live. BTW - Iron Man asks if you want to download before it starts - you can bypass it on this disk. Transformers does not ask.

Hello ...I read the online manual..How would you turn off this BD live feature??

Thanks

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post #377 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 01:56 PM
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Has anybody been able to check what DAC's are being used. The Pioneer 05/51 thread has talk of the Wolfson 8740 being used in it. But someone printed the specs and the Burr Brown DAC's in the previous model Sony S500 had better specs on paper. The Wolfson has 112 SNR and .0015 THD. The Burr Brown 1791 had 113 SNR and .0001 THD.
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post #378 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 02:23 PM
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Has anyone tried connecting the 550 to an ethernet bridge for checking firmware update or accessing internet feature? Mine gives me a funny IP address 169.254.x.x vs 192.168.1.x. Since I was also having a problem with my Toshiba A35 hd dvd (just switched the ethernet cable from the A35 to the 550), I'm not sure if it's the Sony or my bridge (Airlink101 AP431W). My Tivo HD is on the same bridge and it works fine; there is actually a Dlink 4 port switch connected to the bridge.

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post #379 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bignorm View Post

Hello ...I read the online manual..How would you turn off this BD live feature??

Thanks

Look at page 52 of the manual. Set "BD Internet Connection" to "Do Not Allow"
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post #380 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwiss View Post

Has anybody been able to check what DAC's are being used. The Pioneer 05/51 thread has talk of the Wolfson 8740 being used in it. But someone printed the specs and the Burr Brown DAC's in the previous model Sony S500 had better specs on paper. The Wolfson has 112 SNR and .0015 THD. The Burr Brown 1791 had 113 SNR and .0001 THD.

I doubt seriously if even the best human hearing could blind-test the difference between 112 & 113 SNR and .0015 & .0001 THD. Aren't those
THD numbers beyond the level of human hearing anyway? But then
again, I don't know that as fact!
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post #381 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanramon94582 View Post

Thanks 5150zx. I toggle between optical (dts) and ext in (dts-hd) and the difference is very obvious. I watched Forbidden Kingdom and felt that the actions and special effects are all over my living room... like I'm actually getting punched and my own floor is cracking. those bass, oh my! At the end that's a fabulous reward.

No problemo...great to hear another with confirmation of DTS-HD MA using the analog outs. And yes, the cleanliness and punch of the LFE is one of the 'make you smile' attributes of lossless audio.
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post #382 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150zx View Post

I doubt seriously if even the best human hearing could blind-test the difference between 112 & 113 SNR and .0015 & .0001 THD. Aren't those
THD numbers beyond the level of human hearing anyway? But then
again, I don't know that as fact!

I agree about the blind test. Pioneer seems to be promoting the fact that they use the Wolfson DAC. If Sony can use a slightly better DAC on paper and undercut Pioneers price significantly then us Sony owners are getting the best of both worlds.
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post #383 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

True, but how many HR discs do you own? I only want it for bragging rights. HR is not going to sound a whole lot different from the "core."

Well, I guess the point was that those $2K players still aren't complete, while the $399 s550 is.
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post #384 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 5150zx View Post

Not trying to be too critical of people who complain about 'mix' vs. 'direct' for audio...but seriously...how difficult is it to take 5 to 10 seconds to go to the menu to change between the two if you'd like to listen to a commentary track?? My guess is some of these very same people won't bat an eye when waiting in line a lot longer than that at a restaurant, burger joint or the post office! I don't get it. Can't wait to set my S550 up this weekend...

Yeah, and some of those same folks no doubt don't mind longer load times as as opposed to using a "game console". But I digress...
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post #385 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 03:15 PM
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OK, the S550 has 7.1 analog output and my receiver has 7.1 analog input but my speaker set up is 5.1. Is it best to connect all the 7.1 outputs/inputs and then let the receiver control it by shutting off the rear speakers based by my settings in the receiver or just hook up the 5.1 analogs and turn off the 2 speakers in the S550?
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post #386 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffstra View Post

OK, the S550 has 7.1 analog output and my receiver has 7.1 analog input but my speaker set up is 5.1. Is it best to connect all the 7.1 outputs/inputs and then let the receiver control it by shutting off the rear speakers based by my settings in the receiver or just hook up the 5.1 analogs and turn off the 2 speakers in the S550?

Interesting...I'll have the exact set-up tomorrow when my S550 arrives. The problem with connecting the surround backs is you don't have the surround backs, soooooo, the information in those speakers will be lost. If you turn off the surround backs in the menu, then hopefully (I don't think anyone has confirmed this yet) the 550 will downmix the surround backs into the left and right surround so you'll retain that information. I'm hoping that is how Sony designed the 550 to work since I only have a 5.1 set-up like you.
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post #387 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 03:54 PM
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I have 5.1 set up too. I used only 6 cables and used the BD player to turn off SRB/SBL. My logic is I'm using the DAC at the player not the DAC at the receiver.
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post #388 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Tomaskovic View Post

Has anyone tried connecting the 550 to an ethernet bridge for checking firmware update or accessing internet feature? Mine gives me a funny IP address 169.254.x.x vs 192.168.1.x. Since I was also having a problem with my Toshiba A35 hd dvd (just switched the ethernet cable from the A35 to the 550), I'm not sure if it's the Sony or my bridge (Airlink101 AP431W). My Tivo HD is on the same bridge and it works fine; there is actually a Dlink 4 port switch connected to the bridge.

Are you able to successfully connect to the internet?
169.254.x.x IPs are a "link local" addresses...essentially the device couldn't get an IP address dynamically assigned to it by a DHCP server and didn't have a static IP address, so it falls back on assigning itself one of these 169.254.x.x addresses.
You see this often with Windows XP networks where you have a small local network and no DHCP server and no static IP's...the clients on the network can still communicate since they are all on the subnet.
Of course if your network adapter on one client has an IP from that range and the rest of the clients are on a 192.168.1.x subnet, that odd man out won't be able to communicate with everyone else.

Erik
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post #389 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epontius View Post

Are you able to successfully connect to the internet?
169.254.x.x IPs are a "link local" addresses...essentially the device couldn't get an IP address dynamically assigned to it by a DHCP server and didn't have a static IP address, so it falls back on assigning itself one of these 169.254.x.x addresses.
You see this often with Windows XP networks where you have a small local network and no DHCP server and no static IP's...the clients on the network can still communicate since they are all on the subnet.
Of course if your network adapter on one client has an IP from that range and the rest of the clients are on a 192.168.1.x subnet, that odd man out won't be able to communicate with everyone else.

Oh...was just thinking about this and it is probably normal if your S550 gets an address from that range. A bridge usually has two or more IP address assigned to it one for each network interfaces...it's essentially bridging between two different networks. So on one side you might have a normal 192.168.1.x IP assigned to the part of the bridge by DHCP by your internet router and on the side connect to your S550 it could be just using the 169.254.x.x address...it only has one connection on that side so that perfectly fine.

Erik
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post #390 of 3986 Old 10-15-2008, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdad View Post

Just curious if those, who are taking advantage of the Sony CC discount offer, plan to cancel the card after paying the bill or continue to carry it? Also, does the card have an annual fee? And if you cancel the card, are you concerned about how that may affect your credit rating?

I got the card about 6 months ago to get a PS3. I switch CC's a lot and usually only keep them about 6 months (except for our two main CC's). However, after about 4 months they sent me an Email telling me that if I used the card in September for $75 or more, I'd get a $50 statement credit. In September I put $80 on it. Should get the credit on my next statement. I'm not concerned at all about it affecting my credit rating, but may just hang onto this card for a few more months to see if they offer me something else. So far, I've put $380 on the card in 6 months (PS3 + $80) and they've given me $150 off (only had a $100 credit when I signed up).

"The dream never dies, just the dreamer."

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