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#1 ·
#3,282 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorinj07 /forum/post/16925325


Thanks Robert,

However,

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the input.

Follow up from yesterday...

I did the boost on the LFE - I put it on +10dB for now.


I also connected the optical sound back (as I had with the original DVD player) for playing SD DVD....but I might have to do another change because when I put for ex the Beatles "Help" DVD - with the DTS 5.1 track - and of course changed the audio priority of the S550 to coax/optical...what I got was...one of the Logic 7 decoding from the AVR (the proprietary HK DSPs) (and the Sub was working this time)...Was it because even though outputting to the optical...the Sony was still decoding internally...and sending that over the optical??? Otherwise the AVR should have gotten the digital track and decode it to its DTS-Neo6....or not?


The other surprise was that on my first Blu-Ray - the latest Fast and Furious - even though it said DTS-HD Master Audio on the menu - when it played, I could hear again only 5.1 (the Sub was indeed working as you said)...absolutely no rear surround. The picture was excellent, the audio - from the 5.1 was fantastic (never had that good of experience before)....but why not the surround back? Also, when I checked during the movie - pressing the on screen display - it said also DTS MA 3/2.1 48kHz....so DTS HD doesn't mean by default 7.1? Or am I missing something?



Thanks

Sorin



The latest Fast and Furious only has a DTS HD MA 5.1 track. The movie has to have a 7.1 track to get sound from all of your 7 speakers.
 
#3,283 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzybk /forum/post/16925511


The latest Fast and Furious only has a DTS HD MA 5.1 track. The movie has to have a 7.1 track to get sound from all of your 7 speakers.

Thanks.

I learned meanwhile that not all DTS HD MA tracks/movies have 7.1...for whatever reason I thought a while back that this was one of the benefits of DTS HD or DD TrueHD tracks - to offer the full 7.1 capability. I was pointed earlier today from the BigPictureBigSound forum to list of movies that have 7.1 or 5.1 tracks.....and it came as a surprise to me that so few are 7.1...but I get it now.

I'll rent/buy one of that list (7.1) and only then I'll be able to see if everything's OK.


Sorin
 
#3,284 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeewing /forum/post/16924935


How does it compare to the BDP-S1? Except for slow loads and lack of lossless DTS, mine is still chugging along just fine. I am thinkng about the new S560...

The S550 is the fastest loading player that I have. It looks every bit as good as the S1. The ethernet connection is great for updating your firmware. No more discs from Sony. It also gives me my first experience to BD Live, which I have enjoyed more than I thought I would. The main reason I got it was the dts-HD Master audio decoders. If the S1 had that I would still have the S1. If I were you I would take a look at Best Buy in store and see if they have any more S550 on closeout. It would be cheaper and probably just as good as the S560. I also own the Panasonic BD50 that I have hooked up to my main Home Theater which has been outstanding but the S550 is every bit as good, possibly better.


good luck...

 
#3,285 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMAVADER /forum/post/16937607


The S550 is the fastest loading player that I have. It looks every bit as good as the S1. The ethernet connection is great for updating your firmware. No more discs from Sony. It also gives me my first experience to BD Live, which I have enjoyed more than I thought I would. The main reason I got it was the dts-HD Master audio decoders. If the S1 had that I would still have the S1. If I were you I would take a look at Best Buy in store and see if they have any more S550 on closeout. It would be cheaper and probably just as good as the S560. I also own the Panasonic BD50 that I have hooked up to my main Home Theater which has been outstanding but the S550 is every bit as good, possibly better.


good luck...


I agree whole-heartedly. I waited to pull the trigger on a player and did my research and my S550 has been amazing. PQ has been great, has played every disc and overall very easy to use and not a single problem.
 
#3,286 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorinj07 /forum/post/16926783


Thanks.

I learned meanwhile that not all DTS HD MA tracks/movies have 7.1...for whatever reason I thought a while back that this was one of the benefits of DTS HD or DD TrueHD tracks - to offer the full 7.1 capability. I was pointed earlier today from the BigPictureBigSound forum to list of movies that have 7.1 or 5.1 tracks.....and it came as a surprise to me that so few are 7.1...but I get it now.

I'll rent/buy one of that list (7.1) and only then I'll be able to see if everything's OK.


Sorin

All movies are originally mixed in 5.1 (or less). So the studio has to go back and add additional channels to make a discreet 7.1 mix for blu Ray. Given that most systems are 5.1 and that most people with 7.1 systems hVe receivers that can derive rear channels from a 5.1 mix (ie plIIx), the surprise is that any movies are released in 7.1.
 
#3,287 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnewmanpac /forum/post/16938461


All movies are originally mixed in 5.1 (or less). So the studio has to go back and add additional channels to make a discreet 7.1 mix for blu Ray. Given that most systems are 5.1 and that most people with 7.1 systems hVe receivers that can derive rear channels from a 5.1 mix (ie plIIx), the surprise is that any movies are released in 7.1.

That would be true.....if not using the multi channel analogue like myself. For me to benefit of all 8 speakers, it's either the movie has it already as 7.1 track or I switch to the optical connection and let the AVR apply a Logic 7 type DSP (it's an HK) (unless it's one of the few DD-EX or DTS-ES movies like LOTR - and then the AVR has the capability of outputting to all speakers when received over optical).


The other question - my network update/BD Live is not working. It says cannot connect or something like that. I have it connected to my D-Link 655. The other two PCs and occasionally the laptop (either wireless or wired) are connecting just fine...
 
#3,288 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMAVADER /forum/post/16937607


The S550 is the fastest loading player that I have. It looks every bit as good as the S1. The ethernet connection is great for updating your firmware. No more discs from Sony. It also gives me my first experience to BD Live, which I have enjoyed more than I thought I would. The main reason I got it was the dts-HD Master audio decoders. If the S1 had that I would still have the S1. If I were you I would take a look at Best Buy in store and see if they have any more S550 on closeout. It would be cheaper and probably just as good as the S560. I also own the Panasonic BD50 that I have hooked up to my main Home Theater which has been outstanding but the S550 is every bit as good, possibly better.


good luck...


Vader,

Agreed. In 8 months, every single disk I have thrown at this player has played....Blu, std, minidvd...Firmware updates easy and fast.

Pic and sounds amazing. TrueHD and DTShd master has been amazing via the 5.1 analogs. The unit is built like a tank front to back..feels higher end. It looks fine in the rack. I have NO complaint, no remorse, no want for the OPPO and never looked back. The low-drama od this thread is testament to the quality of the Sony.
 
#3,289 ·

Vader,

...Firmware updates easy and fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorinj07 /forum/post/16942921


The other question - my network update/BD Live is not working. It says cannot connect or something like that. I have it connected to my D-Link 655. The other two PCs and occasionally the laptop (either wireless or wired) are connecting just fine...

As an update to the above - I had to remove/disable firewall in the router setup in order to connect. Once connected - and re-started the player - it automatically asked me about the update, and the update was relatively quick (~8-10 min). Did you encounter something similar?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 /forum/post/16952832


Pic and sounds amazing. TrueHD and DTShd master has been amazing via the 5.1 analogs.

Absolutely - the only thing is that having a 7.1 set-up, there is no way (that I know) to get something out of the rear over analog.

However - it still sounds better over the 5.1 than the core DTS 5.1 - but when watching std DVD with DTS 5.1 over optical...the Harman Kardon can output to the rears as well (I assume it "copies" the surround to the surround back)...so it gives a more "surround" experience (I have the surround placed on the left/right of my couch with the rear farther back a bit in the corners)
 
#3,291 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorinj07 /forum/post/16953488


...the only thing is that having a 7.1 set-up, there is no way (that I know) to get something out of the rear over analog.

DSPs such as PLIIx are used to matrix stereo and 5.1 sources into 7.1. DSPs only work when the audio is digital. So, with analog transmission, the AVR would have to redigitize the audio in order to apply the DSP. That function is only available on some of the pricier processors. But, unlike the Sony players, the Panasonics, Pioneers, and the new Oppo all output 7.1 from dts-MA sources over analog on their own.

Quote:
...when watching std DVD with DTS 5.1 over optical...the Harman Kardon can output to the rears as well (I assume it "copies" the surround to the surround back)...so it gives a more "surround" experience (I have the surround placed on the left/right of my couch with the rear farther back a bit in the corners)

Most receivers have PLIIx, Neo:6, DD-EX, and/or other DSPs that matrix audio for the rear channels. Matrixing is better than simple channel duplication.
 
#3,294 ·
I've had this player for about 8 months now. I've used it quite a bit, really. To calibrate that statement, let's just say that Netflix doesn't have any more movies I care to watch.


The other day I tried using my PS3 as the player in lieu of this player (I had been using the PS3 as my Bluray player for about a year before buying this player). What a huge difference in convenience this player makes! The PS3 was, is and will remain as a backup Bluray player.


This player was expensive but, to me, it was worth it.
 
#3,295 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbie /forum/post/16974746


If your receiver doesn't support the HD Codec's but supports HDMI transfer or 5 or 7.1 Analog, then set the Audio to "MIX".

Incorrect (at least for dts tracks). Choosing mix will cause the 550 to use the legacy dts track instead of dts-ma. You should keep it set to "direct" unless you are using secondary audio (ie commentary track).

To answer the original question: you can't. It is all done automatically during the hdmi handshake. If your receiver can decode the lossless codecs, the 550 will bitstream. If your receiver can't decode, but does accept PCM over hdmi, the 550 will decode internally and send as PCM.


If you don't have hdmi, then connecting the multichannel analog outputs and selecting multichannel audio in the audio priority menu will also trigger internal decoding.
 
#3,297 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnewmanpac /forum/post/16975796


Incorrect (at least for dts tracks). Choosing mix will cause the 550 to use the legacy dts track instead of dts-ma. You should keep it set to "direct" unless you are using secondary audio (ie commentary track).

To answer the original question: you can't. It is all done automatically during the hdmi handshake. If your receiver can decode the lossless codecs, the 550 will bitstream. If your receiver can't decode, but does accept PCM over hdmi, the 550 will decode internally and send as PCM.


If you don't have hdmi, then connecting the multichannel analog outputs and selecting multichannel audio in the audio priority menu will also trigger internal decoding.

I have the Sony hts-s360 (Home theater in a box) connected via HDMI. The receiver can't decode DTS-MA and TrueHD. But if the 550 decodes it and sends it to the receiver will I still receive lossless audio? I'm still new understanding audio.
 
#3,298 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick22587 /forum/post/16979973


I have the Sony hts-s360 (Home theater in a box) connected via HDMI. The receiver can't decode DTS-MA and TrueHD. But if the 550 decodes it and sends it to the receiver will I still receive lossless audio? I'm still new understanding audio.

If your htib can accept audio over hdmi, then the 550 will decode the lossless tracks and send to your receiver a PCM. Just set audio priority in the 550 menu to hdmi and you are good to go.
 
#3,300 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezer /forum/post/16981515


I just received from Sony in the mail an offer to extend my warranty. One year for $49.95, 3 year for $149.85.

In this disposable society, what are your opinions? Yea or nay?

I own the BDP-S550 it is a great player. That said, I wouldn't bother. That is alot of money and IF it were to break (highly unlikly) for an extra $150 or so you would be able to buy a brand new player with better technology. IF the player cost $3000 then I would bite on the extended warranty but it doesn't so don't waste your money (unless you have a monkey that likes throwing your av equipment against the wall or floor
 
#3,301 ·
If you have ever done any investigating, extended warranty's are a big $ maker. You really have to make the decision based on the technology you are purchasing and the cost vs. benefit (as jmouse007 stated). If your S550 is approaching 1-yr old and no issues, the "bigger" concern is (imho) how you justify purchasing better technology in a few years when the damn S550 keeps on chugging along...
 
#3,302 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander /forum/post/16964874


DSPs such as PLIIx are used to matrix stereo and 5.1 sources into 7.1. DSPs only work when the audio is digital. So, with analog transmission, the AVR would have to redigitize the audio in order to apply the DSP. That function is only available on some of the pricier processors. But, unlike the Sony players, the Panasonics, Pioneers, and the new Oppo all output 7.1 from dts-MA sources over analog on their own.


Most receivers have PLIIx, Neo:6, DD-EX, and/or other DSPs that matrix audio for the rear channels. Matrixing is better than simple channel duplication.

That's what I meant when referring to the HK ouput to all 8 speakers. However I can do this - with the S550 - only if I output over the optical tosslink, and that reduces the DTS-HD MA or DD TrueHD to the core DTS-5.1/DD tracks.

What I understand is though that on blu-ray discs, those 5.1 tracks are "better" (higher bitrate encoding) than on the regular DVDs.

The question would be then: on a blu-ray disc that has 5.1 DTS-HD/DD-TrueHD track is it better to keep outputting through optical - benefitting of the AVR 7.1 matrix (but applied to a "lossy" track) - or output through analog and having the full lossless track but only from 5.1 - decoded by the player.

Of course I can listen myself and compare - thought perhaps you have some technical explanation which would sound better.


All that because given that - based on looking at the prices - in Canada at least, the price difference from the S550 to those players (Panny BDP 80 or Pioneer 320 or the new OPPO) is from 250 (Sonny) to 450 (Pioneer 320) or 500 (Panny) or 550-560 (Oppo)....of course adding tax respectively.

I know of course there are other diferences in feature set, media streaming or even PQ/AQ....but as don't have any SACD/DVD-A or not even many DVDs (less than 50 - as I usually rented them), I wonder if for the above mentioned rear speaker dilemma, it's worth paying almost or more than double for a player (which for sure won't be the "last" player I'll buy - perhaps, "relegating" it later to another set-up in my house...)


Thanks

Sorin
 
#3,303 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorinj07 /forum/post/16989300


That's what I meant when referring to the HK ouput to all 8 speakers. However I can do this - with the S550 - only if I output over the optical tosslink, and that reduces the DTS-HD MA or DD TrueHD to the core DTS-5.1/DD tracks.

What I understand is though that on blu-ray discs, those 5.1 tracks are "better" (higher bitrate encoding) than on the regular DVDs.

The question would be then: on a blu-ray disc that has 5.1 DTS-HD/DD-TrueHD track is it better to keep outputting through optical - benefitting of the AVR 7.1 matrix (but applied to a "lossy" track) - or output through analog and having the full lossless track but only from 5.1 - decoded by the player.

Of course I can listen myself and compare - thought perhaps you have some technical explanation which would sound better.


All that because given that - based on looking at the prices - in Canada at least, the price difference from the S550 to those players (Panny BDP 80 or Pioneer 320 or the new OPPO) is from 250 (Sonny) to 450 (Pioneer 320) or 500 (Panny) or 550-560 (Oppo)....of course adding tax respectively.

I know of course there are other diferences in feature set, media streaming or even PQ/AQ....but as don't have any SACD/DVD-A or not even many DVDs (less than 50 - as I usually rented them), I wonder if for the above mentioned rear speaker dilemma, it's worth paying almost or more than double for a player (which for sure won't be the "last" player I'll buy - perhaps, "relegating" it later to another set-up in my house...)


Thanks

Sorin

How big is your theater? How many seats does it have? The reason I ask is that your question assumes 7.1 is superior to 5.1. The real benefits to 7.1 come when you have a very deep theater room and/or multiple rows of seating. Try listening to a few BDs in 5.1 and see if you really miss the rear surrounds.


Personally, I hear a significant difference between TrueHD and the legacy DD on Blu Ray. To me, the additional channels wouldn't be worth that loss. However, I often have a hard time distinguishing DTS-MA from the DTS legacy track. So if 7.1 were important to me, I would use the legacy via optical and matrix the rear surrounds.


But if I had the kind of room that really required 7.1, I'd buy a receiver with HDMI 1.3 and one of the advanced room corrrection algorithms, then just bitstream the lossless codecs. To be honest, you'll get a lot more benefit from the room correction software than from those extra 2 speakers.


Enjoy,
 
#3,304 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnewmanpac /forum/post/16992402


How big is your theater? How many seats does it have? The reason I ask is that your question assumes 7.1 is superior to 5.1. The real benefits to 7.1 come when you have a very deep theater room and/or multiple rows of seating. Try listening to a few BDs in 5.1 and see if you really miss the rear surrounds.


Personally, I hear a significant difference between TrueHD and the legacy DD on Blu Ray. To me, the additional channels wouldn't be worth that loss. However, I often have a hard time distinguishing DTS-MA from the DTS legacy track. So if 7.1 were important to me, I would use the legacy via optical and matrix the rear surrounds.


But if I had the kind of room that really required 7.1, I'd buy a receiver with HDMI 1.3 and one of the advanced room corrrection algorithms, then just bitstream the lossless codecs. To be honest, you'll get a lot more benefit from the room correction software than from those extra 2 speakers.


Enjoy,

Thanks cdnewmanpac for the input.

The room is not that big, but not small either - to give you a sense, when I set up the speakers distance, the fronts are ~14ft, sub 15, center 12, surr 4 and rears 5ft. (my couch that sits 4 is some 1.5-2 feets from the back wall - with the surrounds on the sides just a bit in front of the couch and rears in the corners). I know for sure that the 50" is a bit to small (60" would have been perfect....but at that time, that was the max I could afford...)


As for BDs - I didn't get many yet, but in those that I got they didn't have a "separate" track to choose (between the DTS-HD or DD-TrueHD and the respective legacy tracks) - and not sure if what the player is sending via optical "cutting" the HD track to core 5.1 is the same as it would be a separate option to choose a legacy 5.1 track. Anyway, I'll keep listening to others and see...


Thanks
 
#3,305 ·
The player replaces the lossless track with a lossy version for output over optical. You will rarely see an option for the lossy track on the disc audio menu. The player software handles all of that on its own.


I agree with cdnewmanpac that the DTS core pretty much matches dts-MA (on my equipment in my room). The DD 5.1 tracks also sound great, but I hear improvement with TrueHD more often (again, on my equipment, in my room). I have a 5.1 system, so the issue of rear surround matrixing does not affect me. You need to test this yourself on your equipment in your room.


I am not aware of any rigorous, comparative studies here. Home Theater magazine published an article with some controlled comparisons, but it wasn't an actual study. There are links to it in several AVS threads.
 
#3,306 ·
Just got this player. My reciever doen't have hdmi input. When using the analog outputs to the inputs on my reciever something strange happens. I get virtually nosubwoofer activity. On the players menu I set all speakers to small and selected yes for subwoofer.

Then using the test tone I get very little sound from the sub. However If I use the optical or coaxial output from the player I get ample bass.


Also I was trying to play V for Vendetta. When I selected the picture in picture commentary I only get the picture but not the audio. I tried Hairspray and Shoot'em up and both the picture and sound played when I selected PIP. Firmware issue?
 
#3,307 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxtl /forum/post/16997293


Just got this player. My reciever doen't have hdmi input. When using the analog outputs to the inputs on my reciever something strange happens. I get virtually nosubwoofer activity. On the players menu I set all speakers to small and selected yes for subwoofer.

Then using the test tone I get very little sound from the sub. However If I use the optical or coaxial output from the player I get ample bass.

With analog and speakers set to small, you need to boost the sub by 15db in your receiver or at the sub itself. With digital transmission, the receiver software handles the boost. With analog, you have to apply it yourself.


Many receivers have a setting specifically for that purpose - one that boosts the analog SW without affecting your digital calibration. If your receiver has such a setting, getting the right bass output is pretty straightforward. If not, it's more difficult. And, unfortunately, with some AVRs, it's not possible to get both analog and digital adjusted separately.
 
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