The Official Sony BDP-S550 Owner's Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thuppu View Post

Ok, is't internally decoding to hdmi output. The big question is... does it decode DTS MA to analog 7.1ch outputs?

Well, it should be passing the decoded DTS-MA and Dolby TruHD 7.1 thru analog, unless there is some sort of "copyright protection" keeping it from happening. I know I and many others would like to know for sure if these HD audio formats are allowed to pass thru the analog 7.1 outputs on the S550. It wouldn't be right if they weren't allowed to pass unchanged, IMO.

Anyone really know?
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post #32 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by epontius View Post


So some things seem to work....some don't. I'm not sure where the problem lies...the 550, the receiver or the titles. Looks like at least in my case if I want 7.1 from a DD TrueHD disc, I leave the audio setting in the 550 at "Mix". If I wannt 7.1 from a DTS MA disc, I have to set it to "Direct".

So wouldn't you use the auto setting so that it can flip back and forth from MIX and DIRECT depending on the disc?
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post #33 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigVid View Post

Well, it should be passing the decoded DTS-MA and Dolby TruHD 7.1 thru analog, unless there is some sort of "copyright protection" keeping it from happening. I know I and many others would like to know for sure if these HD audio formats are allowed to pass thru the analog 7.1 outputs on the S550. It wouldn't be right if they weren't allowed to pass unchanged, IMO.

Anyone really know?

If it can output via PCM over HDMI, there's no reason the same codec won't output over the analogs. The only limitation then becomes physical: ie. 2.1 vs 5.1 vs 7.1 analog out.

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post #34 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epontius View Post

Just got my 550 delivered today. I hooked it up via HMDI to my Sony 5300es.
The 550 seems to be internally decoding TrueHD and DTS MA and sending LPCM to the 5300es. I popped in Nightmare Before Christmas (DD TrueHD 7.1) and it will send 7.1 LPCM to the receiver.
However, with Rambo (DTS MA 7.1) it only sent LPCM 5.1
Golden Compass (DTS MA 7.1) also only LPCM 5.1 (interestingly enough punching the display button on the 550 showed DTS 3/2.1)

For me it's then obvious it does not decode DTS-HD MA internally. The logic behind this is quite simple: DTS-HD MA 7.1 titles are being decoded only to LPCM 5.1 whereas they should be decoded to LPCM 7.1 (as the player does with Dolby TrueHD 7.1). So the player decodes only the DTS Core (which is 5.1) and that is the reason why DTS-HD MA 7.1 get decoded to LPCM 5.1 instead of 7.1.

Other reasons for 550 not being able to decode DTS-HD MA internally are:
- Sigma 8634 SoC that can't handle DTS-HD MA decoding (confirmed by Sigma insider on forum.blu-ray.com - not enough DSP power)
- Description on Sony's website:
"Dolby TrueHD internal decoding and bitstream output via HDMI for the Dolby TrueHD and dts-HD (Master Audio and High Resolution Audio)"

If even Sony doesn't state it does decode DTS-HD MA, then why create myths?
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post #35 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiuca View Post

For me it's then obvious it does not decode DTS-HD MA internally. The logic behind this is quite simple: DTS-HD MA 7.1 titles are being decoded only to LPCM 5.1 whereas they should be decoded to LPCM 7.1 (as the player does with Dolby TrueHD 7.1). So the player decodes only the DTS Core (which is 5.1) and that is the reason why DTS-HD MA 7.1 get decoded to LPCM 5.1 instead of 7.1.

Several posters report getting 7.1 PCM output over HDMI from dts-MA discs. How could that be? There's another explanation for 5.1 output from some 7.1 discs. The decoder may be improperly downmixing to 5.1. That's happened with some other dts-MA decoders, including the one in the PS3 when it first came out. The PS3 decoder was later fixed with a firmware update.

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Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

If it can output via PCM over HDMI, there's no reason the same codec won't output over the analogs. The only limitation then becomes physical: ie. 2.1 vs 5.1 vs 7.1 analog out.

The manual definitely says dts-MA can produce a 7.1 output over analog. To me, the question remains whether the player will decode the the dts-MA track if it does not receive an HDMI handshake indicating the AVR supports either dts-MA bitstream or multichannel PCM. I'd like to hear from someone who uses analog without an HDMI connection or when HDMI is connected to a TV, not an AVR.
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post #36 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:12 AM
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Any idea what the crossover setting on this is when you set the speakers to small?
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post #37 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Several posters report getting 7.1 PCM output over HDMI from dts-MA discs. How could that be? There's another explanation for 5.1 output from some 7.1 discs. The decoder may be improperly downmixing to 5.1. That's happened with some other dts-MA decoders, including the one in the PS3 when it first came out. The PS3 decoder was later fixed with a firmware update.


The manual definitely says dts-MA can produce a 7.1 output over analog. To me, the question remains whether the player will decode the the dts-MA track if it does not receive an HDMI handshake indicating the AVR supports either dts-MA bitstream or multichannel PCM. I'd like to hear from someone who uses analog without an HDMI connection or when HDMI is connected to a TV, not an AVR.

You bring up a good point about the AVR possibly being limiting. For example, I know the Harmon Kardon 247 only accepts 5.1 LPCM over HDMI.

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post #38 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:25 AM
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I am just getting ready to go "Purple"(I have XA2 for HD-DVD and up converting) so I have started reading Blu-ray forum every day to help me decide which player I want.From what I have read it seems the best deal would either be the S350 or S550.I didn't want to go either way until I saw some posts from guys who had actually had used the S550. Since I'll be using my Pioneer Elite 94 to do all my audio decoding via HDMI my question is,would there be any advantages of getting the S550 over the S350? Is it correct that both of these players will bitstream "all" audio types via HDMI to my player?

Thanks
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post #39 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richmond5 View Post

OK, your receiver don't have the ability to decode the HD-DTS MA right. You shall not set it to 'direct' for HDMI. You should set it to 'auto', 550 manual pg 66. It means it will LPCM 5.1/7.1 after its decode it internally by 550. I wonder though now you set it at 'direct', which meant you are sending bit stream to your receiver which can not decode the signal , there should have been no sound?

There is no auto for this setting - it's either "direct" or "mix". According to the chart in the manual, direct looks like the way to go. Everything seems to work - I am getting 5.1 audio when I play golden compass.
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post #40 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Several posters report getting 7.1 PCM output over HDMI from dts-MA discs. How could that be?

Any links to such posts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

There's another explanation for 5.1 output from some 7.1 discs. The decoder may be improperly downmixing to 5.1. That's happened with some other dts-MA decoders, including the one in the PS3 when it first came out. The PS3 decoder was later fixed with a firmware update.

This is a possible explanation.

But what about the processor? So far only Panasonic's UniPhier is able to decode DTS-HD MA internally. Sigma in not.
Any explanation for this phenomenon? Additional decoding chip for DTS-HD MA?

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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

The manual definitely says dts-MA can produce a 7.1 output over analog.

Manuals are known to contain lot of errors.
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post #41 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

Now, how about some comments on the video performance?? How does 1080p/60 look? Upscaled 480i?

That's something I'd like to hear from owners of the 550. Does anyone who has the new one, know how it compares to the 350, as far as video performance is concerned? I've read reviews that the DVD upconverting of the 350 isn't very good. How does the 550 do with that, in comparison to the 350? Also, is there any difference between the load times with these two players?
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post #42 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BrentSP View Post

So wouldn't you use the auto setting so that it can flip back and forth from MIX and DIRECT depending on the disc?

So here is where things get confusing.
The "Auto" and "Mix"/"Direct" are actually two different settings in the 550.

The "Auto" setting is located in the option for "HDMI Audio" you have two choices "2ch PCM" or "Auto"
The "Mix"/"Direct" option is located in the option for "BD Audio". This setting is apparently supposed to "selects whether to mix or not to mix interactive audio and secondary audio (commentary) when playing a BD that contains such audio" (pg 49) So I'm assuming that this mixes the commentary from BonusView content in with the normal audio.
It says "direct" "outputs the primary audio only".

The chart on pg 66 seems to indicate that the normal default behavior when dealing with BD is to output multichannel LPCM for every format. It specifically states Dolby TrueHD is output LPCM 7.1, DTS-HD MA is output LPCM 7.1. However all the DD and DTS format for BD in this column have a sneaky little a footnote number *5.
It states:
"When "BD Audio Setting" is set to "direct" audio recorded by the source is output by bitstream. However, this audio maybe output as follows depending on the audio formats supported by the AV amplifier (receiver).
- When the AV amplifier (receiver) does not support HD Audio (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS-HD Master Audio) but supports Multi-ch LPCM, up to LPCM 7.1ch is output.
-When the AV amplifier (receiver) does not support HD audio or Multi-ch LPCM but supports Dolby Digital/DTS, a Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream is output.
-When the AV amplifier (receiver) does not support HD Audio, Multi-ch LPCM or Dolby Digital/DTS, LPCM 2ch is output"

So in my case my Sony STR-5300es supports all these formats. So it according to the chart it normally be outputting everything as multi-channel LPCM...including DTS-HD MA. When the "direct" option is set it should be bitstreaming the format to the receiver (which in my case it is doing).
But I think it is not handling DTS-HD MA properly. I believe when set to the normal "mix" option it is only decoding the core 5.1 and outputting 5.1 LPCM hence the reason when playing Golden Compass the 550's OSD said DTS 3/2.1 when the option was set to "mix" and then "DTS-HD Master audio 3/4.1" when set to direct.

Erik
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post #43 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 07:11 AM
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Hi. I just want to know a few things from owners.

Can you run without video processing? A Direct mode without anything. Want to know if this is like the 350 where it's always on.

Is this truly passing DTS-MA to Receiver/Preamps out there?

Is it truly decoding DTS-MA into PCM so I can do bonus view if I decide to?

I'd like to know before I decide to pull the trigger on this one. Thanks guys.
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post #44 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 07:13 AM
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Mix is designed for use with secondary audio - menu sounds, PIP commentary. It is certainly possible the player uses the legacy track instead of the lossless one when mixing in secondary audio.

I doubt that many people would care whether they get lossless with commentary (an odd notion anyway). But, it would be unfortunate if you had to change from direct to mix in order to listen to commentary and then go back to direct to get lossless for the movie. That defeats one of the main reasons to use player decoding - so that you don't have to change player setups for secondary audio.
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post #45 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiuca View Post

Any links to such posts?

Read through this thread, the S350/S550 thread, and the S550 threads at forum.blu-ray.com. All the posts are from the last five days.

Quote:


But what about the processor? So far only Panasonic's UniPhier is able to decode DTS-HD MA internally. Sigma in not.
Any explanation for this phenomenon? Additional decoding chip for DTS-HD MA?

Beyond my expertise.


Quote:


Manuals are known to contain lot of errors.

Yes. But, this would be a significant error. The S350 manual clearly indicates that it uses DTS core for dts-MA, both over HDMI and analog. The same lines of the S550 manual say it outputs 7.1 PCM and 7.1 analog.
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post #46 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiuca View Post

But what about the processor? So far only Panasonic's UniPhier is able to decode DTS-HD MA internally. Sigma in not.
Any explanation for this phenomenon? Additional decoding chip for DTS-HD MA?

UniPhier does not decode MA. Let's acknowlede that first. It'll be a separate chip just for audio DSP. For the record, the Denon 3800's been decoding MA for over half a year and it does it with 2 DSP's from their 4308 receiver.

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post #47 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 08:46 AM
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Sooo we wait... some more... for 7.1 DTS-HD MA over analog.
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post #48 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

UniPhier does not decode MA. Let's acknowlede that first. It'll be a separate chip just for audio DSP. For the record, the Denon 3800's been decoding MA for over half a year and it does it with 2 DSP's from their 4308 receiver.

100% correct.

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post #49 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Several posters report getting 7.1 PCM output over HDMI from dts-MA discs. How could that be? There's another explanation for 5.1 output from some 7.1 discs. The decoder may be improperly downmixing to 5.1. That's happened with some other dts-MA decoders, including the one in the PS3 when it first came out. The PS3 decoder was later fixed with a firmware update.


The manual definitely says dts-MA can produce a 7.1 output over analog. To me, the question remains whether the player will decode the the dts-MA track if it does not receive an HDMI handshake indicating the AVR supports either dts-MA bitstream or multichannel PCM. I'd like to hear from someone who uses analog without an HDMI connection or when HDMI is connected to a TV, not an AVR.

Exactly - if only the 1.5 mps core was being passed, 7.1 input would not be showing. The PS3 decoder explanation is the likely correct one re the tracks showing at only 5.1 input.

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post #50 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonH54 View Post

I am just getting ready to go "Purple"(I have XA2 for HD-DVD and up converting) so I have started reading Blu-ray forum every day to help me decide which player I want.From what I have read it seems the best deal would either be the S350 or S550.I didn't want to go either way until I saw some posts from guys who had actually had used the S550. Since I'll be using my Pioneer Elite 94 to do all my audio decoding via HDMI my question is,would there be any advantages of getting the S550 over the S350? Is it correct that both of these players will bitstream "all" audio types via HDMI to my player?

Thanks

I'm in the same boat as you. Got XA-2, with the Elite 92 Pio AVR. From my reading, the only important difference between the S350 and S550 is that the 550 has 7.1 analog outputs. Since our AVRs (your 94 and my 92) can decode all codecs bitstreamed to it via HDMI, there's no need for the 7.1 analog outputs. Get the cheaper 350. I'm debating between this and the Pio 51 or 05 BD players.
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post #51 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 09:36 AM
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How are the load times on this player? Any improvement over the 300/500 series?

Life is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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post #52 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage View Post

Someone please open up the S550 and tell us if it uses the Sigma chip or NEC chip.

Seems like this would void the warranty.
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post #53 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 09:54 AM
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Okay, so it's safe to assume that the new audio codecs will not work properly until the next upgrade for the new Sony BDP-S550?

Supporter of 3-D, so let's all play in harmony!
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post #54 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post

How are the load times on this player? Any improvement over the 300/500 series?

I don't notice a difference between the 300 (with the latest firmware) and the 550 with load times.
The startup of the player appears faster, it it pops up a splash screen almost as soon as the power is pressed, then drops you at the t-bar after a while...whereas the 300 didn't send any video out until it was pretty far into boot.
There is a standby mode that can be turned on that supposedly starts the player up faster...I'm assuming because it is just waking it up rather than cold booting. The manual states of course that it will consume power and run the fan when in standby.

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post #55 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Anthony View Post

Okay, so it's safe to assume that the new audio codecs will not work properly until the next upgrade for the new Sony BDP-S550?

From what I've seen so far...I would think so. I guess Sony doesn't test this stuff with real in the wild discs? Not like DTS-HD MA and DD TrueHD discs are a rarity anymore.
You would of thought that they would get it right when their own player (S550) is attached to their own receiver (5300es). But that doesn't seem to be the case.

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post #56 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 10:12 AM
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So...from what I've gathered, the 550 can do the following;

Send all codec's HDMI bit streamed for the receiver to decode. (same as the 350)

Decode internally all codec's and send out LPCM over HDMI for the receiver to apply EQ, THX or whatever. (includes DTSHD that the 350 doesn't have)

(This is what I need to know, does it behave like the PS3?)

And finally the big question, can it send out the decoded info (7.1) via analog right?
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post #57 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 10:25 AM
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An interesting question to me is whether or not you can disable BD-live downloading. Looking at the manual, it appears not.

With the IronMan experience this past week, it would be nice to be able to shut off BD-Live. can someone test to see whether or not this is possible??

Thanks
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post #58 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epontius View Post

I don't notice a difference between the 300 (with the latest firmware) and the 550 with load times.
The startup of the player appears faster, it it pops up a splash screen almost as soon as the power is pressed, then drops you at the t-bar after a while...whereas the 300 didn't send any video out until it was pretty far into boot.

Took about 5 seconds for a splash screen to appear, 20 more seconds to complete boot and land at the "home" menu. Total of about 25 seconds from cold power on to the player's home menu.

Erik
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post #59 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 10:38 AM
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thinking of upgrading from the samsung 1400 to this but have a few questions.
1. does it decode dts-ma and true hd out of the box?
2. hows the load times
3. does it give the full RGB colorspace option(my westinghouse 32w6 likes it better than the other one)

pcm=potato
bitstream=patato
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post #60 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiuca View Post

But what about the processor? So far only Panasonic's UniPhier is able to decode DTS-HD MA internally. Sigma in not.

Has there been physical confirmation that the Sigma chipset is even used in this use? (I know other web-sites have reported this, but I have not seen official confirmation or photos.)

If so, is it the the original Sigma 8634 SoC (as used in the BDP-S500) or the newer 8634 rev C that can decode DTS-MA?

I think there are a few unanswered questions hanging over this unit before absolute conclusions can be made.

Cheers!
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