Originally Posted by Rich86
Yamaha RX-V1 which has 5.1 analog inputs + M&K speakers without a separate subwoofer connected to the subwoofer output (this system actually has twin subwoofers, connected to the left and right main front channels with the crossovers in the subs directing frequencies to the front speakers). This is an old speaker system - M&K S-1 satellites (4 drivers each) with twin 12" 100watt powered subwoofers. I updated the speakers with a LCR-75 center channel and a pair of LCR-55 surrounds when I got my first dolby digital receiver a number of years ago. The speakers still perform admirably - and I've replaced the 12" drivers in the subs (the foam surrounds in the drivers finally gave out) so they perform like new also. The downside - the subwoofers are strictly speaker connection inputs and outputs - no line level inputs are available.
If I connect the Sony S550 via analog to my Yamaha - and set it as follows:
front left, right & center = large
subwoofer = none
surrounds = small
rear surrounds = none
I am expecting the player to send full frequencies to the front speakers, along with any deep bass from any of the channels + the LFE channel material. I'm also expecting any rear surround material to go to the surround channels.
The Yamaha passes the analog signals it receives via the analog inputs pretty much as received plus amplification to the speaker outputs.
Now the questions:
1. the front/center channel does not have a subwoofer on it - I don't expect much (if any) deep bass material goes to that channel anyway. But might I be better served setting that speaker to small even though it has decent bass reproduction although certainly nowhere near subwoofer level?
2. Will I still have the -10db LFE subwoofer signal problem folks discuss or is this strictly a function of the subwoofer analog output from the S550?
I suppose I could just use the digital optical audio connection instead of the analog, but I was hoping to experiment with lossless audio tracks a bit with this player since my receiver cannot handle hdmi or lossless audio codecs.
You won't get LFE re-routing in any of these players. It's just beyond what can be done in the analog domain inside the box. Most likely, there is LF rerouting (sound below the xover point rerouted from Small to Large speakers) but that is speculative on my part based on past experience with the Tosh A1/XA2.
Your setup is similar to mine. The subs are crossed to the mains so you need the LF/LFE rerouted to the mains. I have a fairly labor intensive workaround which I've used in the past. You need generous input capability on your analog passthru. It worked fine for me for several months using an Aragon Soundstage.
Another option would be an outboard analog bass manager like the Outlaw ICBM (hard to find now, I think M&K made one as well).
Even better would be capability in your AVR/processor to perform high quality A/D conversion on the analog input for BM.
Even better would be upgrade to HDMI audio. Sorry, but that's the fact.
Anyway, if you are interested, here's the workaround:LFE routing workaround
Well, I think I found a way around this.
This routes the LFE to the L and R fronts for those of us with 5.0 configurations using the analog outputs on the A1.
RCA y adapter cable one male to two female
RCA y adapter cable one female to two male
RCA y adapter cable one female to two male
2 in-line passive low pass filters 80,90 or 100 hz male to female RCA
Split the .1 channel out from the A1 with the male-female y cable and attach both the low pass filters to this. Then use one female-male y cable to couple the .1 output off the filter to the L front, the other off the remaining filter to the R front.
Be sure subwoofer is set to use in the A1 menu and set the other speakers how you like.
The y adapters are 3.99 ea. at RS and low pass filters (Harrision) are available from Crutchfield for 29.99/pair. Total for the fix comes to around 42 dollars not including shipping on the lp filters. I had 50hz filters already to try, but I would think 80/90/100 would work better. Custom car audio shops carry the in-line lowpass filters as well.
Low pass filters: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Z91y1Vy...&cc=01&g=82600
You can't do it without the filters as this effectively sums the L+R channels as HT man said. The other benefit to this is it actually gives you test tones off the sub output on the A1 to help with setting the LFE level.
It is possible to route the LFE to all 5 channels but that would require splitting the LFE 5 ways and 5 low pass filters as well as multiple y-cables.
Thanks to RichB for his help on this.
5.0 the way to go.
I later found the 100hz filter works the best. You will still end up with LFE at -10 db or LF/LFE at -15 db. You can partially offset this by attenuating all the channels in the player BUT the sub channel. This compromises overall signal/noise however the more you attenuate. I eventually found that placing a distribution amp in-line at the sub channel output of the player (before mixing it) supplies added gain to the sub channel. IF you don't have cold feet yet, read on.Fix found (analog LFE boost if using passthru connection)
I found a fix. It at least makes it workable.
I simply put an A/V distribution amp in-line with the analog LFE output. Supposedly, the specs on the amp say "1:1" meaning 2volts in, 2volts out but for whatever reason it results in about 5db gain on the LFE channel.
This allowed me to raise the other channels on the A1 by 5db to -7db. Basically, it lowers the system noise floor by 5db which is what I was after. Now, Warner Bros. discs (POTO for ex.) can produce satisfying volume with adequate S/N ratio.
I got the amp used from a local B&M but I really don't think there's anything special about the one I have and they are commonly available.http://www.celabs.net/pm/images/pdf/composite.pdf
As pointed out to me by bobgpsr, it is possible that the added LFE gain obtained via the A/V amp method may vary somewhat depending on your AVR/pre-pro's input impedance load.