The Official Sony BDP-S550 Owner's Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrlane View Post

BD Audio setting must be set to direct! When set to mix, rear speakers are not active, so mix seems to mix 7.1 soundtracks down to 5.1 (I thought this would have something to do with secondary audio content, but it seems to affect haw DTS MA is handled). Set to direct, I get all speakers working. Left surround and left rear channels sound different. Dark City says 7.1 ENGLISH DTS-HD MASTER AUDIO 3/4.1 48khz onscreen. I am convinced BrentSP is correct and the BDP-S550 decodes master audio over analog!

Pretty sure I actually saw somewhere that when mix is used it mixes the lossy core with the secondary audio, not the lossless track. Makes sense; has to be a lot less to process.
I think the manual may even tell you this in some bass ackwards way.

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post #92 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BrentSP View Post

Soooo...........hows it go there? Are we hearing DTS-MA through the 7.1 outputs yet or are you just saying you got the S550 today but have yet to try it out yet and will report?

Just received box from FEDEX, hooking up in a few hours and I will report back..hope to confirm kingair's post w/Rambo.
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post #93 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post

I don't know which one to buy , the Sony or the panasonic?

I'm keeping an eye on both of these. I need 7.1 analog out, so whichever has the most complete codec ability and the best analog section will get my money.

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post #94 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

UniPhier does not decode MA. Let's acknowlede that first. It'll be a separate chip just for audio DSP. For the record, the Denon 3800's been decoding MA for over half a year and it does it with 2 DSP's from their 4308 receiver.

Well, I've examined both Panasonic DMP-BD30 and BD50 thoroughly and found no additional DSP chip on the BD50. UniPhier has a lot of horsepower and it's highly programmable and unless Panasonic lies on their site it is able to decode DTS-HD:
http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/e.../conform2.html

Since Denon 3800 also utilizes the UniPhier processor I doesn't surprise that it decodes all audio codes internally.
But if you can point me to the photos of 3800DB internal with those 2 DSP chips I'd be grateful.
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post #95 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrlane View Post

BD Audio setting must be set to direct! When set to mix, rear speakers are not active, so mix seems to mix 7.1 soundtracks down to 5.1 (I thought this would have something to do with secondary audio content, but it seems to affect haw DTS MA is handled). Set to direct, I get all speakers working. Left surround and left rear channels sound different. Dark City says 7.1 ENGLISH DTS-HD MASTER AUDIO 3/4.1 48khz onscreen. I am convinced BrentSP is correct and the BDP-S550 decodes master audio over analog!

Setting to direct should force the player to bitstream. I can get DTS-HD MA 3/4.1 48khz over HDMI to my receiver this way as well. However, when set to the default "mix" which should let the BD do decoding, DTS-HD MA 7.1 is only output as 5.1 LPCM over HDMI...contrary to what the manual says.

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post #96 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epontius View Post

Setting to direct should force the player to bitstream. I can get DTS-HD MA 3/4.1 48khz over HDMI to my receiver this way as well. However, when set to the default "mix" which should let the BD do decoding, DTS-HD MA 7.1 is only output as 5.1 LPCM over HDMI...contrary to what the manual says.


This is about the same as the Panny BD-30.
You have to turn off the secondary audio to get the player to bitstream DTS-HD Master and Dolby Tru HD to your reciever.
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post #97 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo88 View Post

Pretty sure I actually saw somewhere that when mix is used it mixes the lossy core with the secondary audio, not the lossless track. Makes sense; has to be a lot less to process.
I think the manual may even tell you this in some bass ackwards way.

The manual in it's bass ackwards way says as a footnote on Pg 66:
"When "BD Audio Setting" is set to "direct" audio recorded by the source is output by bitstream. However, this audio maybe output as follows depending on the audio formats supported by the AV amplifier (receiver).
- When the AV amplifier (receiver) does not support HD Audio (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS-HD Master Audio) but supports Multi-ch LPCM, up to LPCM 7.1ch is output.
-When the AV amplifier (receiver) does not support HD audio or Multi-ch LPCM but supports Dolby Digital/DTS, a Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream is output.
-When the AV amplifier (receiver) does not support HD Audio, Multi-ch LPCM or Dolby Digital/DTS, LPCM 2ch is output"

On page 49 is says:
"BD Audio Setting
Selects whether to mix or not mix interactive audio and secondary audio (commentary) when playing a BD that contains such audio.
Mix - Outputs the audio obtained by mixing the interactive audio and the secondary audio to the primary audio
Direct - Outputs the primary audio only."

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post #98 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 04:59 PM
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That you can get 7.1 analog DTS-MA, but since you have to set it to "Direct" you won't get commentary tracks? Unless you switch the setting each time you want commentary?

This is so complicated - I might just buy the panny because of this.
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post #99 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiuca View Post

Well, I've examined both Panasonic DMP-BD30 and BD50 thoroughly and found no additional DSP chip on the BD50. UniPhier has a lot of horsepower and it's highly programmable and unless Panasonic lies on their site it is able to decode DTS-HD:
http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/e.../conform2.html

Since Denon 3800 also utilizes the UniPhier processor I doesn't surprise that it decodes all audio codes internally.
But if you can point me to the photos of 3800DB internal with those 2 DSP chips I'd be grateful.

That link to Panasonic didn't help much. It shows "DTS-HD Decode" which could mean DTS-HD HR decoding only. As a matter of fact, I think the Panny BD10 or BD10A was capable of DTS-HD HR decoding but not MA.

I don't have pics of the 3800's innards but I do have this link from the website:

http://usa.denon.com/DVD-3800BDCILit_0324.pdf

On first page, mid-left portion it says, "New dual 32-bit floating point DSP". I believe Jeff was alluding to these DSP's when he posted this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post13054327

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post #100 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joedeath View Post

That you can get 7.1 analog DTS-MA, but since you have to set it to "Direct" you won't get commentary tracks? Unless you switch the setting each time you want commentary?

This is so complicated - I might just buy the panny because of this.

The Panny is the same way.
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post #101 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 05:12 PM
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I too like a lot of early adopters here are trying to decide between the Sony 550 and the Panasonic 55. I think from all I read they are practically pretty much equal in performance and quality.

I will go with the Panasonic simply because I have had better luck with their tech support than I have had with Sony in the past, and I like the looks of the unit better. My AV stuff is exposed and that the Sony blue faceplate doesn't match my other stuff.

Even though I am an early adopter (I have a Tosh XA-1 that I got when they first came out), this time I am going to wait until the inevitable price cuts happen. I know that with the economy in the state it is, sweet deals will happen.

Just my humble thoughts.

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post #102 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 05:15 PM
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So fi you only have a 5.1 analog setup, does just saying NO to rear speakers effectively tell the player to downmix? Also, any word on what the crossover is fixed at??
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post #103 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

That link to Panasonic didn't help much. It shows "DTS-HD Decode" which could mean DTS-HD HR decoding only.

Well, I'm sure DTS-HD means both DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA. If a chip can only decode DTS-HD HR the manufacturers should state it clearly (at least Sigma does). UniPhier has really a lot of processing power and there really aren't any additional DSP chips on BD50. So I'm quite sure it can decode DTS-HD MA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

On first page, mid-left portion it says, "New dual 32-bit floating point DSP". I believe Jeff was alluding to these DSP's when he posted this:

Thanks, you seem to be right about it. He might also have written about DSPs for sound processing (not decoding) and D/A converters. The PDF also ain't very clear although it does say the first DSP has "high bit audio decoder". It's a shame he doesn't respond to questions anymore.
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post #104 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by halsan40 View Post

I will go with the Panasonic simply because I have had better luck with their tech support than I have had with Sony in the past, and I like the looks of the unit better. My AV stuff is exposed and that the Sony blue faceplate doesn't match my other stuff.

It's really not as brillant blue as the photos make it out to be. All my other gear is black...you can't tell that it blue at all. It appears that the front bezel is a transparent dark blue tinted plastic, with black plastic behind it. From anyway I look at it...it looks black.

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post #105 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:03 PM
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Changing these settings to DD and DTS bitstream for the coax/optical outputs does not affect the analog output. I use an HDMI connection to my projector.
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post #106 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrlane View Post

Changing these settings to DD and DTS bitstream for the coax/optical outputs does not affect the analog output. I use an HDMI connection to my projector.

Thanks. I deleted my post because I am not using HDMI at all and I figured out those particular settings would not affect anything for me.
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post #107 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:12 PM
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I received my s-550 and have it connected hdmi to a sony 910 receiver. If i have my bd audio setting to mix my display shows true hd and my receiver shows pcm but I only get my front 2 channels. If I change to direct I receive dolby digital 3/2.1 with all 5 speakers working. I called sony tech support with the same song and dance. He said the 550 would internal decode but I also need a 1.3 receiver....typical sony answer. My settings are as follows, if someone has some insight.

Audio Priority- HDMI
Audio HDMI - Auto
DB audio settings- Direct
Audio DRC- Auto

All other audio settings seem to pertain to outputs other than HDMI.

Thanks for the help
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post #108 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 06:18 PM
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After a couple of hours on the phone with Sony Tech support and being transferred from front line tech to a specialist to an "engineer". They are going to try to test my config (S550 via HDMI to 5300es receiver ) in the lab tomorrow with Rambo (DTS-HD MA 7.1) and Nightmare Before Christmas (DD TrueHD 7.1).
Hopefully I can get some answers as to why I only get 5.1 LPCM from Rambo and funky stuff with Nightmare Before Christmas with bitstreaming.

Erik
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post #109 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiuca View Post

Well, I'm sure DTS-HD means both DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA. If a chip can only decode DTS-HD HR the manufacturers should state it clearly (at least Sigma does). UniPhier has really a lot of processing power and there really aren't any additional DSP chips on BD50. So I'm quite sure it can decode DTS-HD MA.


Thanks, you seem to be right about it. He might also have written about DSPs for sound processing (not decoding) and D/A converters. The PDF also ain't very clear although it does say the first DSP has "high bit audio decoder". It's a shame he doesn't respond to questions anymore.

Your logic is based on an erroneous premise - both the Panny BD30 and BD50 use the same Uniphier chip but only the 50 can decode DTS-HD MA. Both can bitstream it. So, either the 50 uses seperate hardware for processing audio or there is a software difference re enabling functions on the Uniphier. I suspect the former.

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post #110 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

Your logic is based on an erroneous premise - both the Panny BD30 and BD50 use the same Uniphier chip but only the 50 can decode DTS-HD MA. Both can bitstream it. So, either the 50 uses seperate hardware for processing audio or there is a software difference re enabling functions on the Uniphier. I suspect the former.

That's my reasoning for why it wouldn't be UniPhier. Can you imagine the market Panasonic would have cornered if MA capability was already in the player since the days of the BD30? Then they wouldn't have been months behind the Denon 3800. UniPhier is a talented chip but from all the difficulty EVERYONE has had in implementing MA decoding, I don't think it is possible for a SOC to do it at this time (at least not in the BD30/50 generation, can't speak for the upcoming BD35/55).

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post #111 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 10:31 PM
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Is there a way with the 550 to get simulated 7.1 on a 5.1 track like with the PLxII? I'm a bit discouraged by the number of good 7.1 discs and am hoping that I don't have to rig something to make use all the speakers.
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post #112 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaysonb View Post

Is there a way with the 550 to get simulated 7.1 on a 5.1 track like with the PLxII? I'm a bit discouraged by the number of good 7.1 discs and am hoping that I don't have to rig something to make use all the speakers.

Digital signal processing such as PLIIx is applied by receivers, not players. Send the 5.1 audio to your AVR and add processing there.
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post #113 of 3986 Old 10-09-2008, 10:54 PM
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As promised, I'm happy to report that I can confirm (at least w/Rambo) that the S550 decodes 7.1 DTS MA over analog. Pretty neat player...what a step up from standard DVD.
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post #114 of 3986 Old 10-10-2008, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

Your logic is based on an erroneous premise - both the Panny BD30 and BD50 use the same Uniphier chip but only the 50 can decode DTS-HD MA. Both can bitstream it. So, either the 50 uses seperate hardware for processing audio or there is a software difference re enabling functions on the Uniphier. I suspect the former.

Well they both use EXACTLY same chip and there are no differences between their hardware. I had them both closely examined (I mean I really took them both apart when I was installing region free modifications on both). So unless you can tell me which chip is supposedly responsible for DTS-HD MA decoding on Panny BD50 then your premise seems to erroneous.

There are many examples of players using the same SoC and having different features. Sony BDP-S300 got Dolby TrueHD decoding capability after a software upgrade, whereas BDP-S500 or Samsung BD-P1400 utilizing the same chip were able to decode it from the beginning.
Then you you have all network media players utilizing the Sigma chip and also not being able to decode or even bitstream TrueHD until recently when they got the bitstream possiblility after an software upgrade.

Pannasonic BD30 and BD50 are perfect examples of cost cutting in designing of players. You got two players that are almost identical (so identical that region free modification designed for BD30 turned out to be also working on BD50) and yet one is much more expensive and has all expensive licenses and the other one don't (BD30 doesn't even decode TrueHD).
You also forget that UniPhier is younger then Sigma 8634, it's highly scalable and programmable and with all it's horsepower (remember that it can encode H.264 in real-time) there would be only one obstacle for MA decoding thi obstacle would be software (and license cost) and not hardware. Similar situation with PS3 and it's Cell processor.

PS. You are right, Denon didn't wait for UniPhier software capable of DTS-HD MA decoding and used their own chip for both TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding.
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post #115 of 3986 Old 10-10-2008, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

That's my reasoning for why it wouldn't be UniPhier. Can you imagine the market Panasonic would have cornered if MA capability was already in the player since the days of the BD30? Then they wouldn't have been months behind the Denon 3800. UniPhier is a talented chip but from all the difficulty EVERYONE has had in implementing MA decoding, I don't think it is possible for a SOC to do it at this time

UniPhier isn't a typical SoC. It's much more that than and everything it does depends on the software. And because of the difficulty everyone had in implementing MA decoding Panasonic BD50 was delayed (probably also because the wanted to implement Profile 2.0 - not supported by Denon). They had the hardware but
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post #116 of 3986 Old 10-10-2008, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Digital signal processing such as PLIIx is applied by receivers, not players. Send the 5.1 audio to your AVR and add processing there.

The problem is my Onkyo AVR won't apply PLIIx to the analog multi-channel signal only optical and digital coax inputs. So I was hoping that the 550 had the ability to group the surround channels or simulate the 7.1 through its analog outs. If it doesn't I'm considering using a Y splitter on the Surround Left and Surround Right. Pretty lame...I admit,
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post #117 of 3986 Old 10-10-2008, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Dalat View Post

I'm in the same boat as you. Got XA-2, with the Elite 92 Pio AVR. From my reading, the only important difference between the S350 and S550 is that the 550 has 7.1 analog outputs. Since our AVRs (your 94 and my 92) can decode all codecs bitstreamed to it via HDMI, there's no need for the 7.1 analog outputs. Get the cheaper 350. I'm debating between this and the Pio 51 or 05 BD players.

I am in no rush to get a Blu-ray and I too have looked at the Pio's and also the Panasonic BD 50 and BD55. The thing that is pulling to go with Sony at the moment is the Sony Card $150 rebate deal..
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post #118 of 3986 Old 10-10-2008, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by johnrlane View Post

Sorry, I should have credited kingair with the settings suggestions.

Why? He didn't credit me !

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post #119 of 3986 Old 10-10-2008, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiuca View Post

UniPhier isn't a typical SoC. It's much more that than and everything it does depends on the software. And because of the difficulty everyone had in implementing MA decoding Panasonic BD50 was delayed (probably also because the wanted to implement Profile 2.0 - not supported by Denon). They had the hardware but

At least you agree that Denon got MA decoding done in spite of UniPhier and not because of it. Looks like all the R&D put into UniPhier is going to pan out with the $299 MA decoding Panasonic BD35.

Let's hope UniPhier's legacy becomes "affordable MA decoding" instead of "LFE bug purveyor."

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post #120 of 3986 Old 10-10-2008, 06:34 AM
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Crossover ? Anyone?
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