Official Panasonic DMP-BD35/55 Owners Thread - Page 286 - AVS Forum
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post #8551 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

It's not about decoding, which will be the same in either case.

There are advantages to digital, depending on your equipment and the characteristics of your room. Players have weak tools for bass management and no EQ. They also tend to have inferior DACs. So, processing the audio in your receiver may produce better results. And, since it's lossy either way with DVDs, there's no reason to process in the player.

Also, people with 6.1 and 7.1 systems can use a DSP such as PLIIx to matrix sound for their rear speakers. Most receivers can't do that with the analog inputs.

LOL, how did I know it would be BIslander that would be the one to provide absolute clarity on this...thank you sir. Now I understand.
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post #8552 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rack04 View Post

Has anyone tried view AVCHD files from a SD card? I have a couple HD trailers that I want to format for playback on my BD35. Do these have to be in Blu-ray/AVCHD file format or something similar?


It has to be from a camcorder which formats the video a special way.
JPEG files can be dumped into the root of the card.
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post #8553 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 08:45 AM
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Time to talk about my experience with the BD35, which I received for a Christmas present. I took out my upconverting player and swapped in the HDMI to my Samsung DLP for video. As for audio, the upconverting player had optical and coaxial digital sound ports, whereas the BD 35 only has one optical. Since I have the Samsung DLP optical going to the Onkyo receiver via optical audio, I needed to order a box from Monoprice that converted the optical from the BD 35 to the Onkyo's coaxial port.

I got the Amazon deal, so four movies came with it but my son bought me Iron Man blu ray for a present, so I popped that in, sat down in my home theater seat, and watched. At just the first few minutes, the picture quality and sound quality were stunning, so much better than dvd or upconverted dvd. I was a happy kid at Christmas with a big smile on my face watching Iron Man.

Since then, my wife and I watch Momma Mia blu ray. We enjoyed that, by the way, but the setting, singing, and colors really popped out on blu ray. Also, my son in law bought me The Dark Knight, so we watched that and my son in law commented on how it was like watching the movie at the theater.

I did get the network connection going by plugging a network cable into my laptop port and bridging the network connections and it passed the network test on the BD35. However, my firmware version was 1.4 and the firmware update feature said that it was unable to connect and try again later. Also, I could not access the BD-Live features on Iron Man or The Dark Knight. I read on here to get an SD Card, so I got a 2 gb card at Staples for $10 and popped that in. The BD35 found the card and I formatted it, but still no BD-Live. This is no biggie, but I will try again some other time.

Lastly, I updated via disc firmware versions 1.5 and 1.6 last night. Did not know if I had to do both, but I did them in sequence, first 1.5, shutdown, waited a minute, and then did 1.6. No problems as far as I can tell.

I watched Constantine last night, one of the free Amazon discs. Looked good, everything was fine. Where I live, the only place around that rents blu ray is Discount Drug Mart, so we are getting our titles from there. I emailed Redbox and they said they will have blu ray, eventually, with a separate category to rent them.

All in all, I am very happy with my blu ray player. It does help to take home theater movie viewing to another level. My wife said she would rather watch movies in the comfort of our home than go to a theater. Just what I had in mind when we put the home theater in.
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post #8554 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Yes, but the audio will be lossy.

So to overcome this, one should select "Bitstream" (HDMI) and Secondary Audio "Off"?
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post #8555 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by obstacle View Post

Has anyone had difficulty manually updating firmware on the 35? The firmware on my unit shows v1.4. I downloaded and extracted v1.6 from the panny website but when I inserted into the player the disk read "UNSUPPORT". Per the manual that means that the firmware on the unit is the same version as what I'm trying to load. The player was purchased prior to December 8th when v1.6 was released so I know for sure that I have an older firmware version. I also know that I am downloading 1.6 for North America which is the latest update per the Panny website.

Got the unit yesterday and couldn't find as I perused the manual the step(s) involved in identifying which firmware is onboard? Might someone please post this procedure?

Thanks,
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post #8556 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by chrismark View Post

I am loving the BD picture from my BD35. However, I watched the SD version of Encounters at the End of the World last night (a great film BTW) and noticed a lot of jagged edges during the movie, especially noticable when viewing the black and white penguins. I also noticed it when viewinf some non HD material on some of thw BD disks. I calibrated my TV using the feature on the Wall-E BD. Any idea how to clean this up? I have a Magnavox 720p DLP HDTV.

Try changing the player's "Progressive" output from "Auto" to "Video". That sometimes will help with video-based or poorly-flagged film-based material.

You could also try sending 1080i to your display if it accepts it, to see if the set's scaler can do a better job with that material.

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post #8557 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhowie View Post

So to overcome this, one should select "Bitstream" (HDMI) and Secondary Audio "Off"?

Yes. If your receiver has lossless decoders, you will get a lossless transmission, but no menu clicks.
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post #8558 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donstim View Post

Quote:


Originally Posted by swest
I realize now that I wasn't interpreting the chart correctly, and so asked the wrong question. But, unfortunately, I now know the answer...

If I choose 5.1 (on the BD55), then I only get the legacy audio even if a lossless track is on the disk. I was hoping for some sort of downmix of the rear surrounds with the surrounds, but still output the lossless track.

So with my current setup, I would be forced to my other scenario: Choose 7.1 on the BD55, and leave the rear surrounds disconnected...

That's what I'm currently doing. The audio is quite dynamic, and more desirable, I suppose, even without the rear surrounds, than the legacy audio.

IMHO, I think you're starting with an incorrect premise. You seem to be assuming a priori that the lossless track is perceptibly superior to the lossy track on a BD. That's still up in the air, with no conclusive evidence either way. Remember, the lossy track on BD is encoded at a higher bit rate than on most DVDs.

In your situation, there is the additional complication of comparing a 5.1 lossless output to a 7.1 lossy output. If your 7.1 system is configured correctly, and you prefer it to 5.1, I would not be so quick to dismiss using the lossy output if that's what it takes to use your 7.1 configuration. At least give it a proper audition.

Sorry for taking so long to get back to this.

BIslander has corrected my error w.r.t. the 7.1 vs. 5.1, so that part of my post can be dismissed. However, please help with a better understanding of the point you raise: If there is a DTS-HD (or Dolby TrueHD) track to be gotten from the disk, and I don't have a receiver capable of extracting it via the HDMI connection, but I do have a receiver with analog inputs, don't I have to use the analog connections (in my case, the 5.1) to get it?

Otherwise, I would be using the digital audio connection to my receiver, and decode DTS/DTS-ES (or DD/DD-EX), no?

Please provide further amplification

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post #8559 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Mainly for more stable imaging in the surround field. When listening with 2 surround speakers, there will be some sounds that will phantom image at your sides and other sounds that will phantom image behind you. But you have be sitting in the sweet spot to hear the proper side vs rear directionality. So, for example, if you're sitting at either end of the couch, then the sounds intended to be heard directly behind you will collapse to whichever surround speaker you are closest to.

With PLIIx, surround content is steered to speakers at your sides and speakers behind you. So, no matter where you're sitting, sounds intended to come from behind you will always come from that direction. No magic involved. Just a pair of speakers physically located behind you, making it difficult for those sounds to come from the wrong direction. You'll never get that sort of imaging stability with only 2 surround speakers. Additional benefits include clearer directionality (left vs right, side vs rear) and greater envelopment.

BTW, your question is like asking why anyone would want to "multilate" a perfectly fine 480 video signal by scaling it to a 1080 display.

Sanjay

Call it what you will Sanjay buddy , Barney's old fashion. If it's 5.1 then 5.1 it shall be heard. "Stable imaging" is not natural to me, maybe more desirable to some. Plus I thought the "sweet spot" has already been determine when Audyssey said where it is, without consideration to phantoming the surrounds, no? I guess the preference falls upon the listener? I do not like green eggs and ham, I just don't like kem?

btw, I'm not the only one who bought a progressive scan DVD player and later on a DVD upconverter a couple years ago to improve DVD playback on a 1080p dispay set.

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post #8560 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Yes. If your receiver has lossless decoders, you will get a lossless transmission, but no menu clicks.

Thanks. BTW, what benefit is there with menu "clicks"? I must be missing something here...
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post #8561 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Try changing the player's "Progressive" output from "Auto" to "Video". That sometimes will help with video-based or poorly-flagged film-based material.

You could also try sending 1080i to your display if it accepts it, to see if the set's scaler can do a better job with that material.

I'm not the one you were originally helping but i'm going to try that when i get home friday.

I had only watched blu-rays until last week then my gf made me watch love actually on dvd. I must have a setting messed up somewhere cuz it looked horrible. I had a phillips 5982? previously and other dvds looked great. I'm going to try some other dvds and see what happens.

bd-35 goes to hk avr247 to panasonic th42pz700u. I'm hoping its just love actually is a crappy dvd.
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post #8562 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhowie View Post

Thanks. BTW, what benefit is there with menu "clicks"? I must be missing something here...

What, you don't love menu clicks? PIP commentary audio may be more meaningful.
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post #8563 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post

You're telling me. This is the first rebate that I've ever seen where it's next to impossible to contact anyone to get status. The (800) 536-6186 is useless because they ask for your name/number and then NEVER call you back.

I would call (800) 723-4763 like I did yesterday and see if it helps. They couldn't help me but maybe if they get a bunch of calls from people complaining about the lack of response from the first 800 number, something might prompt them to call people back.

Also, I got a hold of an email address that some people may want to send to see if that helps. The address is: BVHEInfo@BVHEHelp.com

Let us know if any of you have any luck!


I sent an email and left a message and will let you know if I hear anything. Very frustrating that it's been 2.5 months and still nothing. Maybe there's some poor guy sitting in a warehouse and he's working from the top of the stack down (meaning I will get a letter in June saying they ran out!).
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post #8564 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Barney_DaPurple1 View Post

ahhh a fellow nudist... I mean purist too, aye? Agree with the option to turn OFF/ON rear surrounds duplication from 5.1 sources would be nice. If you're using analog out for the BD55, you can also set Analog Audio Out to "2ch. + 5.1ch." to turn OFF this feature. Rear channels duplication only takes place when Analog Audio Out is set to "7.1ch.". Question, why would want to mutilate a perfectly fine 5.1 Master Audio track with PLIIx?

Right. Well, I am a purist of sorts, but I am also a realist and I would compare the straight 5.1 with a 5.1 DPL IIx to 7.1 and decide which sounded better. My receiver has HDMI but no modern codecs. What I am hoping, is that my receiver can apply DPL IIx to a 5.1 multi-ch analog input signal. I believe it can, as it shows as such on the chart in the owners manual. Plus, you'd think those fancy DAC/ADC's...the "ADDC" should be going to good use in my Marantz SR9600.

Again, I will try it and see
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post #8565 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 10:25 AM
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With much anticipation I hooked up a new BD35 to my Panny AE700. I expected to be blown away. Alas, I was totally dissappointed.

I rented the same movie in 480p and in BR. I had both DVD players hooked up so we could switch back and forth. Fact is there was no noticeable difference.

It appears to me that if one does not have a 1080p/24p compatible display then BR doesn't really work very well, if any.

BTW. I called Panasonic and the tech admitted the there is no discernable difference between 480p and 720p. Makes sense to me. I assumed the BT would do more than that.

Paul
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post #8566 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney_DaPurple1 View Post

If it's 5.1 then 5.1 it shall be heard.

Ah, a recent convert to surround sound. You must think the number of channels has something to do with the number of speakers used for playback.
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"Stable imaging" is not natural to me, maybe more desirable to some.

"Not natural"? So you actually prefer imaging that drifts based on seating location rather than staying where it was intended to come from?
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Plus I thought the "sweet spot" has already been determine when Audyssey said where it is, without consideration to phantoming the surrounds, no?

No. Audyssey doesn't say where the sweet spot is. The user determines that. Besides, Audyssey makes you take 6-8 readings around the room specifically so that listeners outside the sweet spot have a good experience too. Let me guess: multiple listening locations all having good sound is "not natural" to you.
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I'm not the only one who bought a progressive scan DVD player and later on a DVD upconverter a couple years ago to improve DVD playback on a 1080p dispay set.

So you understand video scaling but not audio scaling. If you're going to listen to 5.1 channels using only 5.1 speakers, then how come you don't watch DVDs using only 480x720 pixels of your 1080p display? If you really are a purist, they why "mutilate" the video signal using an upconverter?

Sanjay

Sanjay
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post #8567 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hives View Post

With much anticipation I hooked up a new BD35 to my Panny AE700. I expected to be blown away. Alas, I was totally dissappointed.

I rented the same movie in 480p and in BR. I had both DVD players hooked up so we could switch back and forth. Fact is there was no noticeable difference.

It appears to me that if one does not have a 1080p/24p compatible display then BR doesn't really work very well, if any.

BTW. I called Panasonic and the tech admitted the there is no discernable difference between 480p and 720p. Makes sense to me. I assumed the BT would do more than that.

It depends on the film,watch Iron Man or Batman Begins in Blu Ray.
That Panasonic tech is either lying or is an idiot.
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post #8568 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhowie View Post

Got the unit yesterday and couldn't find as I perused the manual the step(s) involved in identifying which firmware is onboard? Might someone please post this procedure?

Thanks,

Here you go mhowie:

On the remote press the "SETUP" button. Navigate to "DISPLAY" and press "OK" button.

Now press the "STATUS" button on the remote to view the firmware version.
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post #8569 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hives View Post

With much anticipation I hooked up a new BD35 to my Panny AE700. I expected to be blown away. Alas, I was totally dissappointed.

I rented the same movie in 480p and in BR. I had both DVD players hooked up so we could switch back and forth. Fact is there was no noticeable difference.

It appears to me that if one does not have a 1080p/24p compatible display then BR doesn't really work very well, if any.

BTW. I called Panasonic and the tech admitted the there is no discernable difference between 480p and 720p. Makes sense to me. I assumed the BT would do more than that.

Interesting... I had exactly the opposite reaction.

I own both BR and SD-DVD versions of a few different movies. I put one on each player (SD-DVD player is Denon 2930), cued it up to the exact frames and was extremely impressed at the differences. I'm viewing these on my Panny 50" 8UK.

I knew I'd see a difference, but how much really amazed me.

My wife was blown away... and for her, that's HUGE!

cheers

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post #8570 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 10:44 AM
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I hooked up my BD35 yesterday. Its going to a Panny 508UK, which is a 768p display.

I watched "Wanted" with Angelina Jolie. Not sure if that's considered a quality transfer or not.

I was not blown away by the video quality. A little cleaner? yes. WOW? no.

However, I was blown away by the audio difference. I'm still using optical, but the sound quality and clarity were phenomenal. WOW? YES!!!

I'm sitting about 10 feet from the display. I set the bd to display at 1080. I will try 720 as well.

So I'm on the fence as to whether I'm happy or not..
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post #8571 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swest View Post

Sorry for taking so long to get back to this.

BIslander has corrected my error w.r.t. the 7.1 vs. 5.1, so that part of my post can be dismissed. However, please help with a better understanding of the point you raise: If there is a DTS-HD (or Dolby TrueHD) track to be gotten from the disk, and I don't have a receiver capable of extracting it via the HDMI connection, but I do have a receiver with analog inputs, don't I have to use the analog connections (in my case, the 5.1) to get it?

Otherwise, I would be using the digital audio connection to my receiver, and decode DTS/DTS-ES (or DD/DD-EX), no?

Please provide further amplification

Your understanding of what tracks you get through the digital (non-HDMI) audio connection vs the analog audi connection are correct. What I was trying to point out was that it is not a foregone conclusion that the DTS-HD (or Dolby TrueHD) "lossless" tracks will sound better (or different) than the DTS (or DD 5.1) "lossy" tracks. The lossy tracks on BlueRay discs are encoded at a higher bit rate than is used on most DVDs, which has been said to result in audio quality that is imperceptibly different from the master. (For example, see http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby...compressed_PCM)

In addition, with a digital input to your receiver, you probably have more capability in terms of bass management and level setting than can be done by the Panasonic player combined with an analog input to your receiver. In your case, you should be able to use one of your receiver's surround modes to obtain 7.1 surround sound if you use the digital input rather than the 5.1 you will get using the analog inputs.
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post #8572 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hives View Post

With much anticipation I hooked up a new BD35 to my Panny AE700. I expected to be blown away. Alas, I was totally dissappointed.

I rented the same movie in 480p and in BR. I had both DVD players hooked up so we could switch back and forth. Fact is there was no noticeable difference.

It appears to me that if one does not have a 1080p/24p compatible display then BR doesn't really work very well, if any.

BTW. I called Panasonic and the tech admitted the there is no discernable difference between 480p and 720p. Makes sense to me. I assumed the BT would do more than that.


Something sounds terribly wrong with your setup. First 1080P/24 does nothing for resolution, only smoother 'film like' motion. Second, I accidentally had my BD30 set to 480P and started watching a movie. It was CLEARLY much inferior to the 720P image I'm used to on my 720P Kuro 50". Going from 480P to 720P is HUGE and would be obvious to anyone watching.

I can't imagine how much better full 1080P is, as 720P BD discs really blow me away.
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post #8573 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post

Interesting... I had exactly the opposite reaction.

I own both BR and SD-DVD versions of a few different movies. I put one on each player (SD-DVD player is Denon 2930), cued it up to the exact frames and was extremely impressed at the differences. I'm viewing these on my Panny 50" 8UK.

I knew I'd see a difference, but how much really amazed me.

My wife was blown away... and for her, that's HUGE!

cheers

I forgot to mention that one of the SD-DVD vids is a Superbit (Fifth Element), so normally it would look even better than a standard release, and the difference on my BD55 (w/ the BR ver.) was incredible!

I agree with yngdiego. Something must be terribly wrong...


Edit: Sorry for the ignorant question, but what is a "Panny AE700"?? (Nevermind... found out below, thanks to R-R).

"Yes Eve... I like to watch." - Chauncey Gardener.

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post #8574 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Ah, a recent convert to surround sound. You must think the number of channels has something to do with the number of speakers used for playback. "Not natural"? So you actually prefer imaging that drifts based on seating location rather than staying where it was intended to come from? No. Audyssey doesn't say where the sweet spot is. The user determines that. Besides, Audyssey makes you take 6-8 readings around the room specifically so that listeners outside the sweet spot have a good experience too. Let me guess: multiple listening locations all having good sound is "not natural" to you. So you understand video scaling but not audio scaling. If you're going to listen to 5.1 channels using only 5.1 speakers, then how come you don't watch DVDs using only 480x720 pixels of your 1080p display? If you really are a purist, they why "mutilate" the video signal using an upconverter?

Sanjay

Granted brotha Sanjay . Note taken. Accounting for all considerations, I don't see how I was able to enjoy movies through all these years ? 480i does not look good on my 1080p TV. A simulated rear channel for my 7.1 setup from a 5.1 surround source does not sound as good as just leaving it 5.1... to me. Now the guy sitting in the kitchen, in the 9th? position, when Audyssey is taking the measurements is not part of the computation for the "sweet spot", chances are he's not gonna watch the movie with us anyway. And yes indeed, Audyssey is there to compute the "sweet spot", ignoring ghostdad in the equation . I could be wrong on all accounts tho...

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post #8575 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hives View Post

With much anticipation I hooked up a new BD35 to my Panny AE700. I expected to be blown away. Alas, I was totally dissappointed.

I rented the same movie in 480p and in BR. I had both DVD players hooked up so we could switch back and forth. Fact is there was no noticeable difference.

It appears to me that if one does not have a 1080p/24p compatible display then BR doesn't really work very well, if any.

BTW. I called Panasonic and the tech admitted the there is no discernable difference between 480p and 720p. Makes sense to me. I assumed the BT would do more than that.

My display is 1080i (and accepts 480p natively), and I can see a difference between 480p and and HD media like HD DVD and BD. Is it possible your projector is set up better for 480p and not HD? You could try sending a 1080i or p signal to the PJ if it can accept it, to see if you get better results. BTW, SD DVDs are encoded in 480i, not 480p.

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post #8576 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moviegeek View Post

That Panasonic tech is either lying or is an idiot.

I would bet the latter.



Quote:
Originally Posted by goMO View Post

I hooked up my BD35 yesterday. Its going to a Panny 508UK, which is a 768p display.

I watched "Wanted" with Angelina Jolie. Not sure if that's considered a quality transfer or not.

I was not blown away by the video quality. A little cleaner? yes. WOW? no.

However, I was blown away by the audio difference. I'm still using optical, but the sound quality and clarity were phenomenal. WOW? YES!!!

I'm sitting about 10 feet from the display. I set the bd to display at 1080. I will try 720 as well.

So I'm on the fence as to whether I'm happy or not..

Are you using HDMI for video?

Do you have it at 1080i or 1080/60p?
Try both.
Or try setting the resolution output at AUTO.

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post #8577 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moviegeek View Post

It depends on the film,watch Iron Man or Batman Begins in Blu Ray.
That Panasonic tech is either lying or is an idiot.

He can just simply be a lying idiot?

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post #8578 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

I would bet the latter.




Are you using HDMI for video?

Do you have it at 1080i or 1080/60p?
Try both.
Or try setting the resolution output at AUTO.



I believe its 1080i and not 1080/60p. I will try both as well as 720p.
thx!
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post #8579 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 11:20 AM
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Some here may be interested to know, these players apparently have ALREADY been discontinued!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMP-...sin=B001GAOYCS

New players coming March/April as announced today at CES. Prices on these have already started creeping up as availability wanes.
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post #8580 of 14981 Old 01-08-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennberg View Post

So, I have a BD35 that is still "on order" with Best Buy. I ordered it on December 23, 2008, and it was supposed to be in their store 5 days later. Then it became December 31. Then January 2. Then January 5. And so on. I did get an amusing call today from a woman at Best Buy asking me how much I'm enjoying my BD35. *Insert my sarcastic comment here.*

Anyway, I'm supposed to check back in with them on the 9th, though I doubt much will have changed. I'm thinking that I just happened to order it right as Panasonic was closing the line in preparation for CES 2009, and somehow Best Buy still thinks they can get one when they really can't.

Should I just have them cancel it and wait for the BD60 or BD80? I'm not sure what Panasonic's lead time is for new products to hit retail stores. I'm assuming the BD60 and BD80 are similar in all respects, except that the BD80 does 7.1 analog out. I'm also not sure how pricing will be, as I ordered the BD35 for around $240 (with coupon and $50 off sale), and would hate to pay a lot more just to get the current model.

Thoughts?

I can't speak for other stores but at the BB I work at we don't expect to get anymore in. Our warehouses are showing 0's across the board, you never know though...
Last Saturday four of them showed up unexpectedly and sold before noon. If you want to ensure you get it go for Costco with the coupon before they are all out too.
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