AVS Master Thread: Discussion of Blu Ray Player's Upconversion Performance - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 177 Old 07-11-2010, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello View Post

Thanks for the comments. How about getting a model with source direct (I think most of the new sonys have an 'original resolution' option, which I think is the same as source direct) and letting the JVC do all the upconversion? The JVC has a Silicon Optix Reon-VX processor...not sure where that ranks among the newer oppo blu-ray players of the world(?)

Depends on how important DVDs are to you. The Reon is quite good at scaling but falls a little short in de-interlacing compared to the ABT-based players. The Oppo BDP-80 will serve you well, as will any player with true source-direct. The BDP-83 is still the most bang-for-buck for top-flight DVD upconversion.
Screen size and viewing distance are also factors.
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post #92 of 177 Old 07-11-2010, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello View Post

Thanks for the comments. How about getting a model with source direct (I think most of the new sonys have an 'original resolution' option, which I think is the same as source direct) and letting the JVC do all the upconversion? The JVC has a Silicon Optix Reon-VX processor...not sure where that ranks among the newer oppo blu-ray players of the world(?)

I'm not sure; I've never compared them. This gets into an area where individual preferences matter.

My prejudice is that players are more likely to do better deinterlacing and scaling than displays, but I may be wrong in this and many other cases.

If you've tried 480i into the display and like what it does, then a Source Direct option would work well for you.

-Bill
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post #93 of 177 Old 07-11-2010, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

If you've tried 480i into the display and like what it does, then a Source Direct option would work well for you.

-Bill

Might be worthwhile to first confirm that the display can accept 480i over HDMI.
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post #94 of 177 Old 07-11-2010, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Depends on how important DVDs are to you. The Reon is quite good at scaling but falls a little short in de-interlacing compared to the ABT-based players. The Oppo BDP-80 will serve you well, as will any player with true source-direct. The BDP-83 is still the most bang-for-buck for top-flight DVD upconversion.
Screen size and viewing distance are also factors.

DVDs are pretty important, but not to the point that I'd spend $299 for the cheapest Oppo vs. $120-$150 for a decent Sony with source direct. Are there any other players that use the ABT-based chip that are cheaper than $299?
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post #95 of 177 Old 07-11-2010, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Might be worthwhile to first confirm that the display can accept 480i over HDMI.

I checked =)... yes it handles 480i from my cable box no problem and it seems to do a pretty good job. it's a bit soft at 114" diagonal, but to be expected. DVD's look pretty good now, but I guess I'm really pushing the limits when you get a bad transfer DVD on that large a screen
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post #96 of 177 Old 07-11-2010, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello View Post

DVDs are pretty important, but not to the point that I'd spend $299 for the cheapest Oppo vs. $120-$150 for a decent Sony with source direct. Are there any other players that use the ABT-based chip that are cheaper than $299?

The OPPO BDP-83 with ABT VRS is $499. The BDP-80 with Mediatek System on a Chip is $289.

I'm not aware of any cheaper ABT players.

-Bill
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post #97 of 177 Old 07-11-2010, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello View Post

DVDs are pretty important, but not to the point that I'd spend $299 for the cheapest Oppo vs. $120-$150 for a decent Sony with source direct. Are there any other players that use the ABT-based chip that are cheaper than $299?

I had a Sony S570 that I thought was substandard as far as video went, even blu-ray. The Oppo BDP-83 I recently got is far better on blu-ray and DVD, even compared to the Sony running "original resolution" through the ABT scaler in my Denon AVR.
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post #98 of 177 Old 07-11-2010, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello View Post

I checked =)... yes it handles 480i from my cable box no problem and it seems to do a pretty good job. it's a bit soft at 114" diagonal, but to be expected. DVD's look pretty good now, but I guess I'm really pushing the limits when you get a bad transfer DVD on that large a screen

Yes. 114" + DVD = Oppo BDP-83 in my book. But if you're happy with the image you get from a 480i input, then anything with 480i output will do. Unless you also want SACD, DVD-A, file playback and DNLA functions in the same package.
The main difference will be on crappy DVD transfers, where ABT really shines. Old TV shows and the like, with interlacing errors all over the place, will separate the 2 very quickly.
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post #99 of 177 Old 07-11-2010, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Yes. 114" + DVD = Oppo BDP-83 in my book. But if you're happy with the image you get from a 480i input, then anything with 480i output will do. Unless you also want SACD, DVD-A, file playback and DNLA functions in the same package.
The main difference will be on crappy DVD transfers, where ABT really shines. Old TV shows and the like, with interlacing errors all over the place, will separate the 2 very quickly.

Well it's a good thing that the $500 oppo is not a waste of money.....good to hear....however I cannot spend that much on a blu-ray player right now (or ever perhaps).

That's disappointing that the S570 was noticeably worse than the Oppo 83 even with blu-ray.... the S470 and S570 were on my 'lower end short list'....
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post #100 of 177 Old 07-11-2010, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello View Post

Well it's a good thing that the $500 oppo is not a waste of money.....good to hear....however I cannot spend that much on a blu-ray player right now (or ever perhaps).

That's disappointing that the S570 was noticeably worse than the Oppo 83 even with blu-ray.... the S470 and S570 were on my 'lower end short list'....

The general forum consensus is that all blu-ray players produce very similar images from blu-ray sources. Display calibration may need to be tweaked slightly for different players.

-Bill
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post #101 of 177 Old 07-12-2010, 01:45 AM
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i had a panny BD85 its DVD performance was very poor compared to my oppo 970 DVD player
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post #102 of 177 Old 07-12-2010, 03:35 AM
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I've had lots of DVD, HD DVD and BD players, and processors, and the ones I prefer use HQV processing.

However, my LG BH200 really holds its own with everything - QDEO processing, which I really rate.

I currently own:

Denon DVD-A1UD
Denon DVD-5910
Denon 3800BD
Denon 2500BD
NuForce Oppo BDP-83
Toshiba EP35
Toshiba XA-2
LG BH200
Pioneer DV79
DVDO VP50
Denon DVP-602

I guess its time to rationalize!

Nick
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post #103 of 177 Old 07-12-2010, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The general forum consensus is that all blu-ray players produce very similar images from blu-ray sources. Display calibration may need to be tweaked slightly for different players.

-Bill

I realize that is the common perception, however my experience is different. There is no way my Panasonic 35 or Sony 570 had a BD picture as good as the Oppo or Pioneer. And it wasn't a matter of brightness or contrast adjustment either. The difference was one of the lesser players delivering a picture that seemed "opaque" and less 3D like compared to the Pioneer and Oppo. Even my wife (who thinks I obsess over this stuff to a fault) sat down when I was playing BD's on the Oppo and commented on the picture quality compared to the Sony we had been using.

Of course, most of the regulars around here seem to think all AVR's sound the same too, so to each his own.
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post #104 of 177 Old 07-12-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FORMULA11 View Post

i had a panny BD85 its DVD performance was very poor compared to my oppo 970 DVD player

Wow that's surprising..maybe my Oppo 971 might be ok for now =)
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post #105 of 177 Old 07-12-2010, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Might be worthwhile to first confirm that the display can accept 480i over HDMI.

Don't know if that was tongue-in-cheek or not, but I'd be shocked if there were any displays out there that don't accept that. If there are, then they are brand new, as opposed to really old. I had a Panasonic DVD from 2003 that had an HDMI output and could upscale, and plugged it into a 2005 vintage LG tube that accepted 480i to 1080i.
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post #106 of 177 Old 07-12-2010, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello View Post

Well it's a good thing that the $500 oppo is not a waste of money.....good to hear....however I cannot spend that much on a blu-ray player right now (or ever perhaps).

That's disappointing that the S570 was noticeably worse than the Oppo 83 even with blu-ray.... the S470 and S570 were on my 'lower end short list'....

I agonized at some length between the Oppo 83 and 80 earlier this year, but ultimately decided that the upcharge for the 83 was too much for what even Oppo admits is a very subtle difference, visible mostly on very large screens.

When I subsequently upgraded my ancient plasma to a Panny 54VT25, I thought I might be pushing my luck with the Oppo 80, but after a month of pretty critical viewing, I am still amazed at how good my old DVDs look. With the Oppo outputting 1080p, I often find myself checking the bitrate off the disk because the PQ looks so close to BluRay.

If you're feeling budget constrained on going for an 83, I'd say you can't go wrong with the 80.
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post #107 of 177 Old 07-12-2010, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoffo View Post

I agonized at some length between the Oppo 83 and 80 earlier this year, but ultimately decided that the upcharge for the 83 was too much for what even Oppo admits is a very subtle difference, visible mostly on very large screens.

When I subsequently upgraded my ancient plasma to a Panny 54VT25, I thought I might be pushing my luck with the Oppo 80, but after a month of pretty critical viewing, I am still amazed at how good my old DVDs look. With the Oppo outputting 1080p, I often find myself checking the bitrate off the disk because the PQ looks so close to BluRay.

If you're feeling budget constrained on going for an 83, I'd say you can't go wrong with the 80.

Thanks for the input... I guess it comes down to how the $300 players do against a cheaper player with source direct and allowing my JVC projector to do the heavy lifting....
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post #108 of 177 Old 07-12-2010, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoffo View Post

I agonized at some length between the Oppo 83 and 80 earlier this year, but ultimately decided that the upcharge for the 83 was too much for what even Oppo admits is a very subtle difference, visible mostly on very large screens.

When I subsequently upgraded my ancient plasma to a Panny 54VT25, I thought I might be pushing my luck with the Oppo 80, but after a month of pretty critical viewing, I am still amazed at how good my old DVDs look. With the Oppo outputting 1080p, I often find myself checking the bitrate off the disk because the PQ looks so close to BluRay.

If you're feeling budget constrained on going for an 83, I'd say you can't go wrong with the 80.

This player can be had for $180-190 right now.... thoughts?
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post #109 of 177 Old 08-03-2010, 06:48 PM
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Can anyone tell me how the Samsung BD-C6900's DVD upconversion compares to the Oppo BDP-83 or the Denon DBP-2010CI? I remember seeing a review in one of the HT mags that compared the Samsung's upconversion pretty favorably to the Oppo, but I want to know if anyone here has done or heard of any more direct comparisons. I have a really good deal on a Denon 2010CI open box player for $250 and I'm wondering if it (or the Oppo) is worth buying if the Sammy doesn't do upconversion as well. My TV (which hasn't arrived yet) will be the Samsung UN55C8000. Thanks in advance for any help!

Samsung KN55S9C OLED TV
LG EL9500 OLED TV
Sony XEL-1 OLED TV
Samsung UN55C8000 3D LED TV
Samsung BD-C6900 and BD-F5900 3D Blu-ray players
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post #110 of 177 Old 08-09-2010, 11:25 PM
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There is plenty of discussion of the DVD upscaling and/or deinterlacing performance of many Blu-ray players, but I don't remember ever seeing an actual description of what poor performance from a Blu-ray player will look like. I am referring to actual scenes in regular movies. Again, there are many comparisons of results with HQV or other test discs, but are there any lists of specific movie DVDs with scene times that will really show an obvious difference between a good (or great) player and a poor (or average) one, on normal Hollywood content?

Also, here is a general question about the performance differences. How will good versus bad upscaling differ compared to, say, the difference between the original and remastered Gangs Of New York Blu-ray discs, or the obvious problems with the Lethal Weapon 2 Blu-ray disc and similar ones, or between an anamorphic and non-anamorphic DVD of a movie?

Thank you to anyone who can point me to discs/scenes I could use to compare among players I own, or compare to other players.

Chris

"It's [expletive] lame to watch Jaws, a film that uses the 2.40 ratio as well as any ever produced, in the wrong format on HBO." -Steven Soderbergh, Oscar-winning director

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post #111 of 177 Old 08-10-2010, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV View Post

There is plenty of discussion of the DVD upscaling and/or deinterlacing performance of many Blu-ray players, but I don't remember ever seeing an actual description of what poor performance from a Blu-ray player will look like. I am referring to actual scenes in regular movies. Again, there are many comparisons of results with HQV or other test discs, but are there any lists of specific movie DVDs with scene times that will really show an obvious difference between a good (or great) player and a poor (or average) one, on normal Hollywood content?

Also, here is a general question about the performance differences. How will good versus bad upscaling differ compared to, say, the difference between the original and remastered Gangs Of New York Blu-ray discs, or the obvious problems with the Lethal Weapon 2 Blu-ray disc and similar ones, or between an anamorphic and non-anamorphic DVD of a movie?

Thank you to anyone who can point me to discs/scenes I could use to compare among players I own, or compare to other players.

DVD performance is mainly about deinterlacing. I would start with the old Guide to the Progressive Scan Shootout articles which have examples of certain artifacts. The OPPO BDP-83 FAQ has links: Is the DVD picture quality of this player amazingly better than any other player?

-Bill
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post #112 of 177 Old 08-22-2010, 07:18 AM
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Hello all,

I just purchased a Samsung PN58C550 Plasma. So far, it appears to be a fabulous display: fantastic picture, no "buzz" issue. I've done searches on this subject but haven't come to any conclusions yet so thought I'd start a new thread.

I have a decent collection of DVDs and I'm about ready to take the plunge on a Blu Ray player. I'm wondering what the general consensus is on the best way to view regular DVDs on a high-def display. My searches thus far have led me to believe that using a Blu Ray player with good upconversion is the way to go in the more reasonable (say, up to $500) price ranges.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Panasonic DMP-BD85 which seems to be fairly well respected and has all of the features/flexibility I would like. I'm also considering the Oppo BDP-83 as it sounds like the "cream of the crop" for reasonable money. However, it lacks many of the features of newer players (mainly the wifi stuff). The Samsung display does have wifi capability, however, so perhaps this is not an issue. I assume I can use that for streaming Netflix, YouTube, etc. Is that a correct assumption?

In any case, any advice would be greatly appreciated as to how to get the most out of my DVDs with the new display. My current DVD player is a Denon DVD-2910. Is there any scenario under which the Denon might be a good choice (e.g. just change some internal settings on the Denon and connect right to the Samsung via HDMI or some such arrangement)?

Thanks very much,
Joe
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post #113 of 177 Old 08-22-2010, 07:41 AM
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I own the oppo blu ray player and also the oppo 971 dvd player. the 971 dvd player is very decent is probably better with dvds then the panasonic. my problem is that the oppo share the same remote. I placed the 971 upstairs in the computer. should be fine there.

Jacob
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post #114 of 177 Old 08-22-2010, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeriz View Post

Hello all,

I just purchased a Samsung PN58C550 Plasma. So far, it appears to be a fabulous display: fantastic picture, no "buzz" issue. I've done searches on this subject but haven't come to any conclusions yet so thought I'd start a new thread.

I have a decent collection of DVDs and I'm about ready to take the plunge on a Blu Ray player. I'm wondering what the general consensus is on the best way to view regular DVDs on a high-def display. My searches thus far have led me to believe that using a Blu Ray player with good upconversion is the way to go in the more reasonable (say, up to $500) price ranges.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Panasonic DMP-BD85 which seems to be fairly well respected and has all of the features/flexibility I would like. I'm also considering the Oppo BDP-83 as it sounds like the "cream of the crop" for reasonable money. However, it lacks many of the features of newer players (mainly the wifi stuff). The Samsung display does have wifi capability, however, so perhaps this is not an issue. I assume I can use that for streaming Netflix, YouTube, etc. Is that a correct assumption?

In any case, any advice would be greatly appreciated as to how to get the most out of my DVDs with the new display. My current DVD player is a Denon DVD-2910. Is there any scenario under which the Denon might be a good choice (e.g. just change some internal settings on the Denon and connect right to the Samsung via HDMI or some such arrangement)?

Thanks very much,
Joe

Your Denon gets a modestly good report here: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...28component%29. There is no reason you can't continue to use it if you like the image.

The place to start for DVD performance on BR players is Winston's ranking: http://winstonsreviews.com/?page_id=63, but I don't see your panasonic listed there.

-Bill
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post #115 of 177 Old 08-22-2010, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob305 View Post

I own the oppo blu ray player and also the oppo 971 dvd player. the 971 dvd player is very decent is probably better with dvds then the panasonic. my problem is that the oppo share the same remote. I placed the 971 upstairs in the computer. should be fine there.

Jacob

You can use a different remote code set on the OPPO BR players so they don't conflict with the 971.

-Bill
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post #116 of 177 Old 08-22-2010, 08:00 AM
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I tried that.. it didnt work well for me.
I am using the harmony remote.
Jacob
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post #117 of 177 Old 08-22-2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob305 View Post

I tried that.. it didnt work well for me.
I am using the harmony remote.
Jacob

It works very well with Harmony remotes. Check the FAQ in the main Oppo BDP-83 player thread for how to get the different codes set up.

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post #118 of 177 Old 09-08-2010, 12:24 PM
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OK...I wound up purchasing the Panasonic BD85K Blu-Ray player for use with my Samsung PN58C550 plasma. As I'm trying to figure out what setup offers the best picture quality with regular DVDs, I have the Panny hooked up to the Samsung via both HDMI and component cables. This way I am able to switch back and forth between inputs to see which looks better. So far, I think I prefer the component connection in terms of picture quality. It just looks 'smoother' overall while the image from the HDMI input looks a bit like it's 'trying too hard' to be HD when it really isn't. I suppose this could be attributed to one (or more) of several things:

1) My TV does a better job of upconverting the DVDs than the Blu-Ray player.
2) The inputs on my TV have not been sufficiently tweaked/optimized for the signals they are receiving.
3) I need to alter some settings on the Blu-Ray player to get the best from it's internal upconverter.
4) something(s) I haven't thought of yet...

Any thoughts or advice on how to proceed from here would be helpful.

Thanks!
Joe
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post #119 of 177 Old 09-08-2010, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welwynnick View Post

I've had lots of DVD, HD DVD and BD players, and processors, and the ones I prefer use HQV processing.

However, my LG BH200 really holds its own with everything - QDEO processing, which I really rate.

I currently own:

Denon DVD-A1UD
Denon DVD-5910
Denon 3800BD
Denon 2500BD
NuForce Oppo BDP-83
Toshiba EP35
Toshiba XA-2
LG BH200
Pioneer DV79
DVDO VP50
Denon DVP-602

I guess its time to rationalize!

Nick

Time to downsize. You should be good with just the AU1D and the XA2.
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post #120 of 177 Old 09-24-2010, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeriz View Post

OK...I wound up purchasing the Panasonic BD85K Blu-Ray player for use with my Samsung PN58C550 plasma. As I'm trying to figure out what setup offers the best picture quality with regular DVDs, I have the Panny hooked up to the Samsung via both HDMI and component cables. This way I am able to switch back and forth between inputs to see which looks better. So far, I think I prefer the component connection in terms of picture quality. It just looks 'smoother' overall while the image from the HDMI input looks a bit like it's 'trying too hard' to be HD when it really isn't. I suppose this could be attributed to one (or more) of several things:

1) My TV does a better job of upconverting the DVDs than the Blu-Ray player.
2) The inputs on my TV have not been sufficiently tweaked/optimized for the signals they are receiving.
3) I need to alter some settings on the Blu-Ray player to get the best from it's internal upconverter.
4) something(s) I haven't thought of yet...

Any thoughts or advice on how to proceed from here would be helpful.

Thanks!
Joe

OK...so, replying to myself here for those that may be interested:

I've had some time to mess around with things and have now come to the conclusion that I prefer the upscaled image from the Blu-Ray player. The culprit was #2 above. Once I took the time to tweak the settings for the HDMI input on the Samsung that is receiving the upscaled image, things changed dramatically for the better. The chief culprit seems to be the 'sharpness' setting...once that is lowered (as it is when the Samsung is set to 'movie' mode) things look great.

No, it is not Blu-Ray quality but it is so good that I can happily watch DVDs and not pine for true high def.

Hope this is helpful to someone.
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