Official OPPO BDP-83 Early Adoption Program FAQ/DUMP - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 11:41 AM
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Will the "official production units" be released with internal decoding for DTS-MA and True-HD?

EAP is not for me because of lack of this functionality.

If REV 1.0 Production also will not decode, I will pass on that, too.

Hmmmmm... the BD-35 might just be the way to go after all . And, I had such high hopes

-steve
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post #182 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

This is just me reading between the lines, it has to be firmware to implement 2.0 if they plan on doing it without changing the hardware.

I have worked as a firmware engineer before. Maybe I can give some insight as to reasons why everything is supported in hardware, but it still takes firmware to work correctly.

First, the hardware usually has to be set up. When you choose bitstream or PCM on the player, the firmware has to talk to the audio chip and configure it all correctly and set things up so that it works. Usually, after its set up, then it works without firmware interaction.

Here's 3 common reasons why everything might not be ready now:
1) The hardware chip is difficult to set up by firmware. Whether or not the chip is produced in-house, the set up steps may not be documented very well. Thus, setting them up correctly takes trial and error, lots of testing, and trying to figure out what's wrong. There may be a simple but non-obvious step that needs to be done, but that step was accidentally left out of the documentation and has not been discovered yet.

2) The hardware may have a bug. The firmware has to find a way to work around that bug. This might even mean that a very small portion of the functionality is implemented in firmware, but the rest is still all done in hardware. Or it might mean the firmware has to set the chip up a different way than documented, but it still works, etc.

3) An unknown bug. The hardware supports it, and other companies are using the same chip just fine. The firmware is setting things up correctly, as far as they can tell. However, for some reason, it doesn't work 100% correctly, or it doesn't work in all modes, etc. No one knows the cause yet, and they are trying to figure out what it is. The cause usually takes a long time to find, and once it's found, the fix is quick and easy.

These are just 3 of many things it could be. In all cases, a firmware update makes it work, yet the hardware supports it from day 1. I'm not saying OPPO is delaying because of one of the above, just a view of firmware in general to give reasons why it might not be working, and give reasons why people can be confident that the hardware does support the features that aren't enabled right now, and just because they aren't there now doesn't mean those features have to be implemented in firmware.

Bottom line: It's not likely there will be hardware changes between the early adopter's units and production units. That sort of thing is usually what beta testing is for. Oppo's statements seems they are confident enough from beta and internal testing to fulfill all features advertised at the September show. A firmware update should make the early adopter units identical to production units.

Disclaimer: this is all a very high level, generalized view so my post doesn't take 8 screens
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post #183 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Will the "official production units" be released with internal decoding for DTS-MA and True-HD?

EAP is not for me because of lack of this functionality.

If REV 1.0 Production also will not decode, I will pass on that, too.

Hmmmmm... the BD-35 might just be the way to go after all . And, I had such high hopes


The BD-35 doesn't have internal decoding you want, you would need the 55.

If it weren't for the 55's lack of SACD playback, I would have bought one already. So now, it's the waiting game for the Oppo!
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post #184 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post

The BD-35 doesn't have internal decoding you want, you would need the 55.

I was considering the BD-35 before I found out about the Oppo. The BD-35 does do internal decoding of TrueHD/MaterAudio output as PCM over HDMI. It just doesn't have the 7.1 analog outs.
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post #185 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 11:54 AM
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Sorry, I should have been clearer, I meant the 7.1 analog output on the 55.
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post #186 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 11:54 AM
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Can someone tell me whether OPPO is a direct seller or do they also go rhough dealers? Thanx
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post #187 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post

The BD-35 doesn't have internal decoding you want, you would need the 55.

If it weren't for the 55's lack of SACD playback, I would have bought one already. So now, it's the waiting game for the Oppo!

The BD-35 does internal decoding... the BD-55 has analog outputs, that the BD-35 does not have. But, both players decode and send PCM via HDMI.

SACD is nice, but not a show stopper for me, since my 981 does that just fine.

I'd really like to have it all in one unit, though.

-steve
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post #188 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mw390 View Post

Can someone tell me whether OPPO is a direct seller or do they also go rhough dealers? Thanx

Most people buy direct from Oppo but there are a few dealers: http://www.oppodigital.com/wheretobuy.html

-Bill
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post #189 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 11:59 AM
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Later the units are available through Amazon, at least in the past, but buying direct from Oppo is an easy route to take.
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post #190 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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The only advantage Amazon.com has is free shipping and no California sales tax.
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post #191 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Will the "official production units" be released with internal decoding for DTS-MA and True-HD?

Yes.

Quote:


EAP is not for me because of lack of this functionality.

Quote:


If REV 1.0 Production also will not decode, I will pass on that, too.

The EAP lacks these functions out of box, but there is an anticipation that these features will be unlocked through software upgrades.

However, we do not know what terms and conditions and liabilities has for this program, as no details have been released.
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post #192 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:07 PM
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Some other retailers have had discounts on top of free-shipping at times.

That's how I got my 983.

"Your" isn't the same as "you're". "There", "their" and "they're" are also not the same. Please learn the difference.

And... it's "couldn't care less". Thank you. :)
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post #193 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:24 PM
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Neuromancer,

Thanks for the info...

I think I'll hang on a little while for the production unit, rather than jump on the EAP or the BD-35 bandwagon. The PS3 and 981 are doing just fine

Think we might see that early in Q1-09?

-steve
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post #194 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

With the BDP-83 you can force the player to always be at a resolution (ex. 1080p/60Hz) or to variably change the resolution based on the content source. So for a DVD-Video it would output 480i, for Blu-ray it would output at 1080p/24Hz, and for DVD-Audio and SACD it would output at 1080i automatically.

This is a much needed function, glad to see OPPO implementing this! One question, when the -83 sets the output resolution by content source, can these output resolutions be determined by the user, or are they fixed?

Neuromancer's comment says, which I'm guessing is Source Direct mode:
DVD-Video it would output 480i
Blu-ray it would output at 1080p/24Hz
DVD-Audio and SACD it would output at 1080i

Could this configuration be possible?
DVD-Video it would output 480i
Blu-ray it would output at 1080i
DVD-Audio and SACD it would output at 1080i

BDP-83 EAP (first 50)
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post #195 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post

Did you mean PCM? From the first post I was under the impression the only choice right now was bitstream.

...yeah, I got confuddled in my own variations.

So, short version - we're getting TrueHD/DTS HD MA passthrough =correctly=, AND it's doing PiP PCM downconversion without any trouble, right? Seems odd it's able to do mixing to PCM for PiP, but not output of PCM for those without Bitstreaming capabilities, no?

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post #196 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

I can't answer this one immediately due to the NDA still being in effect.

...asked my questions before your announcement about the NDA still in effect (was taking wmclain at his word that it was now free...)

still, thanks for the answers you're able to give... consider this a blanket one, anything we should know about (weird quirks, annoyances) that, while they may be fixed in future FW updates, still give you some amount of pause regarding the unit?

Oh, and I sent off an email, not sure if being in Canada is going to screw up the deal... heck, we don't even have Candian range of MSRP yet...

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post #197 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post

This is a much needed function, glad to see OPPO implementing this! One question, when the -83 sets the output resolution by content source, can these output resolutions be determined by the user, or are they fixed?

With Source Direct the output resolution of the signal is determined by the original resolution of the source content. BD is usually 1080p/24Hz, though some contents can be 720p, 1080i, or even 1080p/60Hz.

DVD-Video will almost always be 480i.

CORRECTION: DVD-Audio and SACD when in Source Direct will be at a forced output resolution (not a EDID handshake). Currently 1080i is being used.

You can manually change the resolution, on-the-fly, to take advantage of a resolution which is not Source Direct. So, for example, you can force the player to always output at 1080i, but manually change it to 480i for the DVD-Video during the same session. You will have to manually change the player back to discrete 1080i when finished.
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post #198 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I am planning a comparison post between the Oppo and a few other units including the S5000ES and 3800.

Wow Joe, letting a sub 1000 unit in your tests?

I'm just kidding I know you had the pioneers in there, but I think that was ust cause of all the hype when they first came out.

jimi
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post #199 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

So, short version - we're getting TrueHD/DTS HD MA passthrough =correctly=, AND it's doing PiP PCM downconversion without any trouble, right? Seems odd it's able to do mixing to PCM for PiP, but not output of PCM for those without Bitstreaming capabilities, no?

You can use the Dolby Digital and DTS CORE contents. There is no need to downsample from Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD Master when doing PiP or SAP muxing.
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post #200 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

DVD-Audio and SACD are handshook based off of the EDID of your display. So the output resolution can be 720p, 1080i, or 1080p, depending on what your display tells the DVD player what is capable of.

...uh, there are lots of times you'd want to play SACD/DVD-A without turning on the display... I'm not sure that the processor/receiver in the chain (Integra 9.8 in my case) would be presenting a formal EDID response.

What would be ideal, naturally, is that it's entirely driven by source (DVD=480i, BD=1080p24/1080i30/etc., SACD/DVD-A=just output the damn audio)...

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post #201 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

You can use the Dolby Digital and DTS CORE contents. There is no need to downsample from Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD Master when doing PiP or SAP muxing.

...oh, I agree it's not required, yet that's exactly how it's implemented in many players.

Interesting to hear that the player seems to work well...

BTW, other testers, mind sharing what processors/receivers you have bitstream working with, and what your experience is with profile 1.1 discs? Surely as this is explicitly articulated in the release you can provide a bit more detail about the interaction of this unit with your audio chain....

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post #202 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:43 PM
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Got the email from OPPO last night. Hope I make the cut on the early adopter list.

"OPPOmagically"

So how did everyone do on guessing who the beta testers are? One did surprise me.

Joe
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post #203 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

still, thanks for the answers you're able to give... consider this a blanket one, anything we should know about (weird quirks, annoyances) that, while they may be fixed in future FW updates, still give you some amount of pause regarding the unit?

There are still some one-off bugs, but that is to be expected with the current phase of testing. A one-off bug is something that exhibits itself occasionally, but can never be easily or consistantly reproduced. This can be as simple as picture pasteurization, to as complex as the system completely freezing.

I would not recommend this to non-technical friends or family. These type of people just want to insert a movie and enjoy their experience. The BDP-83 is a great product, but is definitely geared towards enthusiasts in its current state.

That being said, if you post on AVS Forums, you are pretty much qualified to use it. And you should use it.

Quote:


Oh, and I sent off an email, not sure if being in Canada is going to screw up the deal... heck, we don't even have Candian range of MSRP yet...

Canada should be fine, since Canada is part of region restrictions of North America.
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post #204 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

...uh, there are lots of times you'd want to play SACD/DVD-A without turning on the display... I'm not sure that the processor/receiver in the chain (Integra 9.8 in my case) would be presenting a formal EDID response.

I have edited my prior post. No EDID for DVD-Audio and SACD in Source Direct.

Quote:


What would be ideal, naturally, is that it's entirely driven by source (DVD=480i, BD=1080p24/1080i30/etc., SACD/DVD-A=just output the damn audio)...

For DVD-Audio and SACD there will be a forced resolution when using Source Direct. Current resolution is 1080i, as this should be compatible with most displays, while still being a high enough resolution for proper audio bandwidth.
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post #205 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 01:07 PM
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Other than the basic features, what I want most from this Oppo player is ROBUST performance. I.e., I am quite satisfied with the BR and sd dvd pq that I now get from my Samsung 1200; BR is what you would expect, and the HQV Reon chip gives excellent upconversion of sd dvd. What drives me crazy with it, though, is it finickiness! Sometimes it will load a BR, and sometimes it won't--the same disk! Very annoying.

So I hope that by the time Oppo releases this thing, that it WORKS, and reliably so.
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post #206 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

Neuromancer,

Thanks for the info...

I think I'll hang on a little while for the production unit, rather than jump on the EAP or the BD-35 bandwagon. The PS3 and 981 are doing just fine

Think we might see that early in Q1-09?

steve, between your 981 and ps3 you are good for a while.
I have no need for analogs. I'd still like to see more of a transport from oppo.
I too was thinking of a BD35, but may wait. Damn, might as well wait for the oppo, cuz if its not that, it'll be something else... there's always something else.
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post #207 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 01:14 PM
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I live and the great state of New York and they gave Amazon an offer they couldn't refuse. Collect tax or else. Thanx for the info tho
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post #208 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 01:27 PM
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I live and the great state of New York and they gave Amazon an offer they couldn't refuse. Collect tax or else. Thanx for the info tho

CA could certainly use some tax income.
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post #209 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Other than the basic features, what I want most from this Oppo player is ROBUST performance. I.e., I am quite satisfied with the BR and sd dvd pq that I now get from my Samsung 1200; BR is what you would expect, and the HQV Reon chip gives excellent upconversion of sd dvd. What drives me crazy with it, though, is it finickiness! Sometimes it will load a BR, and sometimes it won't--the same disk! Very annoying.

So I hope that by the time Oppo releases this thing, that it WORKS, and reliably so.

Being a Samsung owner myself, I can epithize with your experiences. Former owner of the BD-P1400, and current owner of the BD-UP5000.
The BDP-83 runs circles around something like the 1200. Makes the 1200 look like a child's toy. SD upconversion is probably the only thing that may be comparable. However, the ABT solution within the -83 is defiantely better.

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post #210 of 4510 Old 12-11-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Being a Samsung owner myself, I can epithize with your experiences. Former owner of the BD-P1400, and current owner of the BD-UP5000.
The BDP-83 runs circles around something like the 1200. Makes the 1200 look like a child's toy. SD upconversion is probably the only thing that may be comparable. However, the ABT solution within the -83 is defiantely better.

I'm looking forward to it!

OTOH, the thought did pass me that I could get the Panny 35 (have a HDMI AVR, so analog is of no concern) and have good (?) BR, with the hi def audio formats, and keep the Sammy 1200 for sd dvd. Not as neat as the Oppo, but half the additional price.
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