Official Oppo BDP-83 "Ranting about Region Coding thread" - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 193 Old 12-20-2008, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

Bill

can you explain this???? "and how well they scale a 1080p Blu-ray image to other resolutions." Does make the blu-ray image better?

I own a 1080i TV; many people own these or 720p systems.

If the BDP-83 scales the 1080p Blu-ray source down to these resolutions better than a PS3 or a BD35 than that makes it better.

Seems reasonably clear.

It also seems reasonably, that for 1080p Blu-ray there is not a lot of image difference.

So if you can get a BD35 for ~$225 and the BDP-83 costs $500 - $600 you have to decide for yourself if the added capabilities are worth $275 - $375 to you:

- Oppo support
- hi def DivX and AVCHD
- 480i24 for Region 1 DVDs
- etc, etc (as have been listed)
- etc, etc (as have not been listed because of NDA, who knows what these may be, wait a few more weeks if your decision is that close)

If it's worth it, but the BDP-83; if not, get something else - oh well.

Given it's been made clear that DVD region free would impact their Blu-ray license I find it unfathomable that some people still can't understand why the BDP-83 is not and never will be (from Oppo) region free.

I added the (from Oppo) because there should be every expectation that the companies providing aftermarket mods will likely choose this as there is a large segment of Oppo fans for whom region free is important and that marks their opportunity; but those fans will have to wait for however long it takes such aftermarket mods to happen after the BDP-83 actually comes to market.

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post #182 of 193 Old 12-20-2008, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I am working on an unofficial FAQ, not to be revealed until the Early Adopter program begins and the NDA is lifted. I can show you what I have so far on that question:

Code:
Is the Blu-ray picture quality of this player amazingly better than any other player?
.....................................................................................

    Opinions vary, but the consensus seems to be that Blu-ray player picture
    quality is very similar among all players producing 1080p images from
    1080p disc content, which is how almost all film-based movies are mastered
    on Blu-ray disc.

    Players will differ in how well they deinterlace 480i sources like DVD,
    how well they scale those sources to high-definition, and how well they
    scale a 1080p Blu-ray image to other resolutions.

    Other factors which differentiate players:

        * optional video processing, such as sharpness and noise reduction
          controls, and support for `Constant Image Height`_ projectors

        * optional Source Direct, which bypasses all additional video
          processing

        * choices for audio processing and outputs

        * support for other media types such as SACD, DVD-A, and media files
          on data discs and USB devices

        * Load times and responsiveness.

        * build quality

        * quality of customer support, including firmware updates to fix bugs
          and add new features

        * community support
I wouldn't offer specific comparisons unless I had done side-by-side testing on much better display gear than I now own. I haven't done that and probably never will.

-Bill

Bill, the entire other factors section is the answer to a different question and are irrelevant to the Blu-ray picture quality issue. They are relevant to the overall question of the player value but impact the Blu-ray picture exactly 0.

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post #183 of 193 Old 12-20-2008, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

Bill, the entire other factors section is the answer to a different question and are irrelevant to the Blu-ray picture quality issue. They are relevant to the overall question of the player value but impact the Blu-ray picture exactly 0.

I take it as an opportunity to discuss player differentiation. That would be the next question anyway.

-Bill


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post #184 of 193 Old 12-20-2008, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I take it as an opportunity to discuss player differentiation. That would be the next question anyway.

-Bill

I look forward to reading the full FAQ once you can post it; just wanted to make sure that the answers were for the right questions (you know, keeping the FAQ to the facts for the Q at hand )

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post #185 of 193 Old 12-20-2008, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by narkspud View Post

Patience, Grasshopper.

Sorry
but thanks
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post #186 of 193 Old 12-20-2008, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonk View Post

Here's the problem, as Bill has pointed out: the principle job of beta testers is to identify, describe, and analyze bad stuff...

...Agreed. And, perhaps unfairly, I was hearing nothing but sunshine, and less of a hint than I would have liked that this role (adversarial, but respectful) was being conducted on our behalf. If you're not uncovering bugs or issues, not challenging the manufacturer, then the entire process of beta testing becomes moot. You guys have a unique opportunity to push Oppo at the pre-release stage, and it's seems, at least from your comments, that you've done this job for us.

Both your and Mr. McClain's comments are exactly the type of pragmatic, non-hyperbolic statements regarding this issue that I felt were lacking. I'm sorry I'm making Bill sleepy, but recognizing the obvious (that 1080p unaltered via HDMI should be pretty darn equivalent, for example) is a far more honest and open assessment of -any- player, rather than cheerleading features or becoming aggravated when members on AVS bring up points that may have been long resolved in communication between the beta testers and Oppo.

Once again, I respect the hard work you guys are doing, and hope that you're finding the testing experience worthwhile.

Read
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post #187 of 193 Old 12-21-2008, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

As far as region free goes I have an excellent player that will work well, a Denon 3930ci. Yes it is another box. But that offers some backup too so it is well worth having in my rack. I'm looking forward to being an Oppo customer and hope that I am selected to the EAP program.

Well, that sounds great, but don't let your excitement over this product go to your head. I already own three Oppo players (OPDV-971H; DV-981H & DV-983H), but if long-term region free support was all I wanted I'd buy another 983 and keep it in the attic for back-up. I'm trying to pare down cramped rack space and consolidate HDMI and A/V cable connections for ease of operation. Of course other's needs and issues will vary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

People talk about the BDP-83 being too expensive. I paid twice that cost for my Denon. It seems to be a great deal to me; I would have willingly paid considerably more for the BDP-83.

Personally, I haven't seen many posts here which make pricing the primary issue, and it isn't a major consideration for me as long as I obtain the versatility I require from a player. The issue for most folks is one particular function that was expected to be carried over on the new BD player that makes it universally backwards compatible with existing DVD libraries. Apparently, for some (many?) folks this is a deal breaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

You think ranting here applies pressure?

Yes, in a manner of speaking. It provides Oppo with a barometer to gauge how big an issue this is for their customer base. I'm not saying that it will change anything, but nothing ever changes without public pressure directed to those with a personal stake in the profitability of the end product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

Given it's been made clear that DVD region free would impact their Blu-ray license I find it unfathomable that some people still can't understand why the BDP-83 is not and never will be (from Oppo) region free.

I added the (from Oppo) because there should be every expectation that the companies providing aftermarket mods will likely choose this as there is a large segment of Oppo fans for whom region free is important and that marks their opportunity; but those fans will have to wait for however long it takes such aftermarket mods to happen after the BDP-83 actually comes to market.

While I agree with your second point about after market mods, I'm still not convinced of your first. I can certainly fathom why folks won't let Oppo off the hook on this issue.

None of us knows for certain what agreement Oppo signed with the BDA; we don't even know whether it was in ink or blood!

We're being informed by speculation and second hand unsupported claims that whatever agreement Oppo's management made contained a stipulation that their license would be rescinded if the company allowed multi-region access. I'm not convinced that this was the case; I'm not saying it wasn't, but I've been around too long to simply accept every 'fact' that a company or advocate tells me at face value.

People in the business world rarely tell the whole story and often weasel around points that are subject to controversy and advocates are likely to say anything which rallies support for their cause. That doesn't mean that the company is dishonest or lacking in ethics, it just means that it's often easier and more profitable to take the path of least resistance.

ViPh
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post #188 of 193 Old 12-21-2008, 12:13 AM
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sharkshark,

It seems as though all you are really after is to find out what is "bad" about this player.
Maybe you are looking for something more than the obvious, I don't know. I think you will be surprised when this player comes out, that most of my comments will ring true.

The answers that you claim to be so revelating, are more interpretive than anything else. There is no definative answer as to wether the PQ in Source Direct Mode (1080/24) matches or exceeds the PQ of another player. This is true because it totally depends on any given set_up of any given user. That is why there was never given an absolute answer, because there is none.


What you and several others here are after, I don't really know, but snide comments about "cheerleading" and what not are uncalled for.

The player will not be region free. If that's the deal killer for you, then it's probably time to move on. Probably time for this thread to die for good too.

~Dave

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post #189 of 193 Old 12-21-2008, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

sharkshark,

It seems as though all you are really after is to find out what is "bad" about this player.
Maybe you are looking for something more than the obvious, I don't know. I think you will be surprised when this player comes out, that most of my comments will ring true.

The answers that you claim to be so revelating, are more interpretive than anything else. There is no definative answer as to wether the PQ in Source Direct Mode (1080/24) matches or exceeds the PQ of another player. This is true because it totally depends on any given set_up of any given user. That is why there was never given an absolute answer, because there is none.


What you and several others here are after, I don't really know, but snide comments about "cheerleading" and what not are uncalled for.

The player will not be region free. If that's the deal killer for you, then it's probably time to move on. Probably time for this thread to die for good too.

I respectfully disagree that this thread should die. If this is an important issue for long-time Oppo supporters then it shouldn't be swept under the carpet. That would not end the debate it would merely censor discussion on this critical issue.

I'm not convinced that Oppo's management won't change their collective minds and relent or figure out a back-door way to include this feature if more voices are heard and it becomes an issue of success or failure of the player.

On a side note, has anyone here actually read the agreement Oppo signed with the BDA? Just curious.

Does anyone KNOW with absolute certainty that the BDA made demands on Oppo in respect to DVD region compatibility or are we all relying on second hand information?

Also, I think that it's ironic that our friends in Europe apparently enjoy multi-region DVD access unlocked on their BD players while in the theoretically 'freest' nation in the world we're held hostage to region 1 only content by the BDA mafia (since I don't own a European BD player, so can anyone verify this claim to be true?)!

Finally, it is a given that there are folks here with a personal stake in the BDP-83. I respect that, and in spite of how upset I am over the region locking issue I'm still a staunch supporter of Oppo's products generally.

The sad reality is that some long time customers here are probably feeling a bit betrayed by the company they've supported; that is why there is so much venting and unwillingness to drop this issue. If this thread is closed and locked (sort of like region-locking to control content) trust me, it won't resolve the rancor.

ViPh
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post #190 of 193 Old 12-21-2008, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Videophilander View Post

I respect that, and in spite of how upset I am over the region locking issue I'm still a staunch supporter of Oppo's products generally.

The sad reality is that some long time customers here are probably feeling a bit betrayed by the company they've supported; that is why there is so much venting and unwillingness to drop this issue. If this thread is closed and locked (sort of like region-locking to control content) trust me, it won't resolve the rancor.

ViPh

+ 1

I have two players from Oppo 971 and 981, on my two set-ups, and I think these are great.

This year I was going to buy the 983H, then i decided to wait for the BDP-83, hoping this was going to be a greate machine and probably will.

I live in PAL land and region 4 for DVD, so for me region locking is a deal breaker.

I'm too very frustrated with this, because I still value the quality of Oppo products.

I still hopping that somehow it is going to change.
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post #191 of 193 Old 12-21-2008, 04:03 AM
 
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post #192 of 193 Old 12-21-2008, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

I think I will just unsubscribe from this thread. Of course I will still be in the other thread for the BDP-83. I just don't have the patience or time for this one.
Hopfully some of the other beta testers will be able to provide better answers for you.
Good luck to everyone. I hope you find what you're looking for, wether it be from Oppo or anywhere else.

"What you and several others here are after, I don't really know, but snide comments about "cheerleading" and what not are uncalled for.

The player will not be region free. If that's the deal killer for you, then it's probably time to move on. Probably time for this thread to die for good too."

I can see why you want this
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post #193 of 193 Old 12-21-2008, 06:06 AM
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Probably time for this thread to die for good too."

I agree.

Buy it or don't buy it.

larry

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