BDP-LX91 Owners thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 67 Old 12-18-2008, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I just received it.
I didn't have time yet to check it out.
I put a picture of the box. It comes with a CD with a new update, the 2.21 version.
I am supposed to wait for Xmas but I may open it today and post some pics.

Cheers
LL
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post #2 of 67 Old 12-18-2008, 07:37 PM
 
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where did you get it from is it region B player
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post #3 of 67 Old 12-18-2008, 08:36 PM
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Nice. Looking forward to your impressions.
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post #4 of 67 Old 12-18-2008, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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It's region A, I live in Japan.
I did some quick test on it.
DVD Pal and ntsc works well
NTSC -> 1080/24p with a better image than the DVDO edge
Pal -> 1080i only but stunning image with 50Hz
Blu-ray, I tried Indiana Jones and Iron Man, no problem.
Loading around 14s for Iron Man

You can change in the menu the assignment of the two HDMI so
Main is for audio
Sub is for video

But you can do like me and connect main to the AV amp and then the TV and change the setting to have Main with audio and video
And the Sub is connected to my projector, it's a easy change

Very intersting point for me is the replay of BD-R AV recorded from cable TV.
It plays everything from 1080i MPEG2 initial broadcast in Japan to 1080i MPEG4 compression, even keep the bilinguial setting. I tried to put some BD-R with some 480i normal TV recorded on it and it's really better than the DVDO edge ( I tried some soccer ).

Sound is way better than my panasonic BD player (it's a player/recorder around 3000$ but you don't have it in US, must be the higher end player there).

The initial update from the CD took around 20mns. There is a home media gallery, video and audio to play from DVD-R or BD-R.

I couldn't test the BD-live because I don't have ethernet cable long enough.

CD plays through ananlog are really nice, much better than the marrantz DV9600 for example. Well I have a dedicated Accuphase SACD player so I don't bother much.

It output well every audio format through HDMI. I am sorry I didn't connect analog because it's a pain in the ass to put all those cable behind my rack. But, I rode a complete test in my usual japanese magasine and they said that the analog was the best for a blu-ray player yet, waiting for the new denon. However, if you use a Pioneer AV amp SC-09, or equivalent, they recommand to use HDMI because analog sounds more natural but less dynamic.

Using Analog with a Aurie Pre amp gave very nice results in the magasine but HDMI allows nice equalizer and stuff.

Anyway, watching Monsters Inc from 1080i broadcast (output 1080/60p) on a Pana 42 plasma, the image is unbelievable, popping 3D, great.
Tonight I will do more test on my projector.

I am very happy about it until now, it played everything I put in ( except region B Blu-ray).

If you have any question (if possible not about analog output because I didn't connected it yet, ask me). There is a preset for PDP, Pioneer PDP and Projector, LCD. The projector setting is made for Victor Projector.
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post #5 of 67 Old 12-18-2008, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I checked Hulk and Across the universe.

Accross the Universe is a nice Blu-ray to check the sound and OMG, it sounds so good and I knows well about sound, I have very nice audio equipment.

To test the dynamic and the bass, the best is the THX trailer at the beginning of Indiana Jones Blu-ray. If you compare with a PS3, the difference is as big than between a DVD and a Blu-ray.
Even my mom is hearing a huge difference,

OMG, this is a piece of dream this player.

If you want pic of something tell me

Cheers
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post #6 of 67 Old 12-19-2008, 12:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nippon View Post

I checked Hulk and Across the universe.

Accross the Universe is a nice Blu-ray to check the sound and OMG, it sounds so good and I knows well about sound, I have very nice audio equipment.

To test the dynamic and the bass, the best is the THX trailer at the beginning of Indiana Jones Blu-ray. If you compare with a PS3, the difference is as big than between a DVD and a Blu-ray.
Even my mom is hearing a huge difference,

OMG, this is a piece of dream this player.

If you want pic of something tell me

Cheers

Ya that THX is something when played loud Pictures will be great. Did you buy it Online or a shop if bought online can you tell me that web page please.
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post #7 of 67 Old 12-19-2008, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nippon View Post

I am supposed to wait for Xmas but I may open it today and post some pics.

Cheers

With such a beautiful BD player, I'm sure Santa won't mind if you open it up and take a few pics.

Growing Older But Not Up
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post #8 of 67 Old 12-19-2008, 02:20 AM
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I see from the manual that it can output both HDMI Component 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 the questions is: which one for having the "deep color trick" i've read of (some sort of bit-boosting original color depth to 36bit, i think)?
Also: is there any visible difference when using this function?
Thx
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post #9 of 67 Old 12-19-2008, 03:02 AM
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The THX trailer on the Indiana Jones disc appears to be Dolby Digital and not TrueHD or DTS HD MA which is rather disappointing. Or is my player not picking up the right track? The movie itself is in lossless.
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post #10 of 67 Old 12-19-2008, 07:00 AM
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nippon, what's the power-on time ? i.e. from standby to disk tray open.
what's the "disc detection" time ? i.e. the time it takes to determine what disk it is, e.g. showing "BDMV" for BluRay and "DVD" for...dvd. For the LX71 it takes abt 40-45 seconds just to detect this, regardless whether it's BD, DVD or CD.

Does it already internally decode DTS HD MA ?

Can the 2 HDMI video output BOTH be active simultaneously ?

U say "projector setting is for Victor projector", do u mean JVC ?

Can u check in the audio/speaker setup, can it adjust levels for subwoofer ? (I want to add the +10db there, as my receiver cannot do this automatic gain)

Thanks a lot!
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post #11 of 67 Old 12-19-2008, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c722 View Post

Can u check in the audio/speaker setup, can it adjust levels for subwoofer ? (I want to add the +10db there, as my receiver cannot do this automatic gain)

In the LX91 manual is written -6db/+6db for each channel, including subwoofer. The manual is online on Pioneer website.

No crossover setting/bass-boost for the analog outputs reported in the manual.
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post #12 of 67 Old 12-19-2008, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I know you are all crazy about time here even I think it s not important at all.
I check with dark knight which appears to be one of the slower
From standy to On 15s
From the time I close the tray the loading screen 17s
Loading screen was 16s.

Yes the THX trailer of Indi is in Dolby Digital only but hell it sounds good.

I didn't check the analog section

Victor is JVC in Japan. I bought it from Avac, expert AV shop in Japan, they don't sell international.

The video choose automaticaly 4:4:4. I don't know how many bits it's outputting because my projector is not telling me but the even I guess it's outputting only 10 or 12 bits because the VXP genum proc in my proj works in 10 bits like the realta. However the internal processing of the processor is in 16 bits which smooth and reduce the error a lot. A digital error on one unit in 16 bits is much less than in 8 bits.

I just finished watching Horton using the both HDMI with high speed and the image was really smooth and wonderfull. There is a big difference in the gradation in dark, the skin and the sky due to the 16 bits processing. I compare with PS3 and High end panasonic player. Sounds is really outstanding.

I will check the analog and tell you later.

Over my 100 blu-ray, they are working well.
I watched a Pal DVD and the noise reduction was so smooth, the detail really strong and no wrong line artefact at all. The best scalling in the house.
One interesting thing is that if you set the output to 1080/24p with a Pal DVD you will get 1080i/50 but if you choose 1080p you get 1080/50p

On the player screen, there is a little indicator which shows the frequency, 24, 50 and 60.
Outputting 24p from 1080i broadcast material looks great too.

But what I would say is the most impressive is that when the camera is moving a lot, the image stays on focus so much more than with any other player I saw, and I saw them all. And this 3D impression that there was already a bit on the last pioneer high end DVD player is here too.

I should play with the settings too.
Just to let you know my gear a little.
I use a SC-09 AV amp with a Accuphase E-550 Pre-main used for power-amp.
I use no center speaker, 4 surround and for the bass management I use a SMS-1 digital equalizer and a Velodyne HGS-18. Wireworld SS52 for video and Wireworld starlight 5 for the audio. Proj is JVC HD-100.

Even they say in the manual you can't have video on both HDMI output, if you use Pure Audio Off, I had images on both.
Pure Audio 1 is only audio (for CDs) and Pure Audio 2 is the one to use (HDMI video on SUB and HDMI audio on Main).
LL
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post #13 of 67 Old 12-19-2008, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nippon View Post

The video choose automaticaly 4:4:4.

According to the manual you can choose either AUTO setting or "force" the 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 output. In my setup (vpr Sharp xv-z21000) 4:2:2 seems to work best but is very rare on BD players (they all output 4:4:4 to my knowledge, except the Panasonic).

Can't wait to read your impressions on analog output. The quality of the analog output is vital for me in buying this player since i don't have an hdmi processor and don't want to change it (is a McIntosh mx135). I'm especially interested on how the LFE channel will work on analog outputs.
Thx for your help and patience and ... a very merry Xmas
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post #14 of 67 Old 12-20-2008, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright I connected analog to give you some impressions.
For CDs, the quality is really very nice, I would say better than denon 3930
For Blu-ray and DVD, it's very nice and smooth, the best around. However you don't have equalizer, phase managment and things like Audissey, so the overall sound has less dynamic and spatialisation than through HDMI. However it's really good and if you must go through analog, I don't think there is better. The new denon maybe but it depends on your taste.
The analog part of pioneer is kind of very clean, a bit on the cold part, natural and smooth. I never liked Denon ananlog because they sound too warm, not focused enough and not clean.
For the bass management, the new firmware 2.24 doesn't have it yet.
I just bought a ethernet cable long enough.

I may repear myself, CD analog sounds really good, the best for a DVD player I ever heard (except Esoteric)

DTS-HD MA not yet too with analog. I just checked.
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post #15 of 67 Old 12-20-2008, 09:46 AM
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Hmm... surprising that you have better sound through HDMI than through analog outs. Especially considering the added expense of all those expensive DACs! What about the digital coax/optical audio out? How does that sound compared to HDMI and for that matter, the analog outs?

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post #16 of 67 Old 12-20-2008, 01:52 PM
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There are only two set-ups I can think of where the analogue outputs would sound better than HDMI.

1)Something like a Lexicon MC-12 HD.

It only supports LPCM HDMI. Recent reports have shown, such as with the PS3, there are real signs of jitter issues present in the sound.

Using the analogue outputs, may actually yield a better result with high quality DACs in the player. THe Lexicon provides full bass management, Room EQ and distance management via the analogue inputs.


2)With the processors DACs are inferior to the players and despite the potential loss of Room EQ, distance management and bass management, the difference is so great that it still sounds better!
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post #17 of 67 Old 12-20-2008, 02:13 PM
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Nippon. Is the remote backlit? The remote shown for the LX-91 on the Pioneer Japan website looks like it may be, while those that have received their LX-91's in the UK indicate the remote is the same as the LX-71.

Ordered my 09FD yesterday and was advised of mid-January arrival!
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post #18 of 67 Old 12-20-2008, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

2)With the processors DACs are inferior to the players and despite the potential loss of Room EQ, distance management and bass management, the difference is so great that it still sounds better!

The LX91 actually have the possibility to set speakers distance and levels for each speaker (incouding subwoofer). Unfortunately no bass management and/or crossover settings.
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post #19 of 67 Old 12-20-2008, 06:13 PM
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thank you nippon for the details I really wanted to get the LX91 so what you observed really helps.
abt the time, not that I'm extremely concerned, just that I want to see the LX91 uses a different drive than the 71. For what I see, 45 seconds to detect what type of disk is something pertaining to the drive itself not the software, and for the 71 it appears to me the drive is just simply too cautious. Now with the 91 it takes only 16 seconds, that's much better, in line with what I expect for a flagship.
For me the 91 is a perfect player: I need the 2 HDMI out for connecting to both a TV and a projector. And I have an amp that has no HDMI but has full 7.1 analogue in and it can apply all EQ/post processing in it. (Pio 59 txi / Ax10ai in your market). It's really gd to hear the analogue out is as gd as HDMI. And the 91 has level for subwoofer, that's another plus. (at least I can pre-boost the LFE in the player)
can't wait for my local launch (end Jan I hope)
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post #20 of 67 Old 12-21-2008, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post

The LX91 actually have the possibility to set speakers distance and levels for each speaker (incouding subwoofer). Unfortunately no bass management and/or crossover settings.

Thanks for clearing that point up.

For me, a VERY interesting experiment would be for someone with a processor like the MC-12 HD to configure it up with both HDMI (LPCM) and analogue outputs...and A/B switch.
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post #21 of 67 Old 12-21-2008, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Hmm... surprising that you have better sound through HDMI than through analog outs. Especially considering the added expense of all those expensive DACs! What about the digital coax/optical audio out? How does that sound compared to HDMI and for that matter, the analog outs?

Not really, if Pioneers' PQLS really works, as Nippon is using a Pioneer SC-09 and is thus able to take advantage of the following features: When connected to a new Elite receiver (SC-05 or SC-07 or SC-09) via HDMI, the player enhances CD playback with the proprietary Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS). This advanced feature synchronizes music data coming from the Blu-ray Disc player to the receiver giving music fanatics a revolutionary high resolution listening experience far exceeding traditional methods.

Stan
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post #22 of 67 Old 12-21-2008, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gostan View Post

Not really, if Pioneers' PQLS really works, as Nippon is using a Pioneer SC-09 and is thus able to take advantage of the following features: When connected to a new Elite receiver (SC-05 or SC-07 or SC-09) via HDMI, the player enhances CD playback with the proprietary Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS). This advanced feature synchronizes music data coming from the Blu-ray Disc player to the receiver giving music fanatics a revolutionary high resolution listening experience far exceeding traditional methods.

I guess that would leave me out then, since I don't have a Pioneer receiver.

Looks like we will have to wait to see what someone says about the audio quality on a pre-amp other than a Pioneer to get a truer picture on the sound quality of the different outputs.

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post #23 of 67 Old 12-21-2008, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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PQLS is only for CD and only for the new receiver the 51 and 71.
For movie, there is no and there will be no PQLS. The Jitter reduction is done through a clock/Jitter controller inside the player.

About using analog output, using any Lexicon or whatever, if you apply room correction, you use a ADC conversion to come back to digital and then you use the DAC of your pre/pro.

Comparing CDs, analog sounds better than HDMI but in home theater, this is a different story. But it's really up to your processor, if you don't have a very high end processor, stick with the analog of course.

One trouble I am having is that I tried to use the DVD region free pronto code of the LX-51 but it didn't work. So I am still stuck with region 2. It's more than enough for me. But would have been nice to have it region free. I am sure there will be a code later on.

I didn't have time to watch movie today as my Bass equalizer had bad contact trouble and I spent time trying to fix it.

One good point I forgot to mention is that he has a home media gallery interface like the AV amp LX-90 and it can plays Divx even with .srt file in the same folder, choosing automaticaly to put them together. Unfortunately, no USB to connect to an hard disk.
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post #24 of 67 Old 12-21-2008, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nippon View Post

Comparing CDs, analog sounds better than HDMI but in home theater, this is a different story. But it's really up to your processor, if you don't have a very high end processor, stick with the analog of course.

You opinion, please: having an hig-end analog only pre with 7.1 inputs (no digital tricks of any kind), do you suggest to stick with the analog outs of the 91 or get a not-so-high-end pre with hdmi, room eq and all the bells & whistles to use only with movies?
This is my dilemma.
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post #25 of 67 Old 12-21-2008, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nippon View Post

About using analog output, using any Lexicon or whatever, if you apply room correction, you use a ADC conversion to come back to digital and then you use the DAC of your pre/pro.

Correct...but LPCM over HDMI, which is what you would have to use with a Lexicon MC-12 suffers badly from jitter. Whereas if you use the analogue outputs, you will have the benefit of tightly controlled jitter at the DAC stage of the LX91, and continued jitter control through the ADC/DAC stages of the MC-12 which are fairly transparent. Ultimately I think this may sound better using this route than via the LPCM HDMI.
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post #26 of 67 Old 12-21-2008, 10:52 AM
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....More Pictures!........please.

05-1.3H BJC-3808-1.3H BJC-5080
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post #27 of 67 Old 12-21-2008, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nippon View Post

PQLS is only for CD and only for the new receiver the 51 and 71.
For movie, there is no and there will be no PQLS. The Jitter reduction is done through a clock/Jitter controller inside the player.

About using analog output, using any Lexicon or whatever, if you apply room correction, you use a ADC conversion to come back to digital and then you use the DAC of your pre/pro.

Comparing CDs, analog sounds better than HDMI but in home theater, this is a different story. But it's really up to your processor, if you don't have a very high end processor, stick with the analog of course.

One trouble I am having is that I tried to use the DVD region free pronto code of the LX-51 but it didn't work. So I am still stuck with region 2. It's more than enough for me. But would have been nice to have it region free. I am sure there will be a code later on.

I didn't have time to watch movie today as my Bass equalizer had bad contact trouble and I spent time trying to fix it.

One good point I forgot to mention is that he has a home media gallery interface like the AV amp LX-90 and it can plays Divx even with .srt file in the same folder, choosing automaticaly to put them together. Unfortunately, no USB to connect to an hard disk.

Nippon: So, there is no PQLS in the 91/09? Does the upgraded jitter controller work on hdmi and analog???

If so, this is good news for non-Pioneer 05 and 07 receiver owners.?

Stan
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post #28 of 67 Old 12-21-2008, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gostan View Post

Nippon: So, there is no PQLS in the 91/09? Does the upgraded jitter controller work on hdmi and analog???

If so, this is good news for non-Pioneer 05 and 07 receiver owners.?

Hi Stan ;I own the pio 51 and it has a similar jitter reduction circuit that works on all outputs [hdmi and analog out] . The 09 version may reduce jitter even more ? With the synergy between components Ime a bit surprised i-link wasnt supplied for the susano avr's
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post #29 of 67 Old 12-21-2008, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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For the 91/09 the PQLS is for i.link
In any case, Pioneer doesn't develop PQLS for movies, it's only for 2 channel.

What kind of pictures do you want?

When I say HDMI is better, this is only if you have a pioneer AV-LX-91/09, a denon A1 (either pre/pro or av surround) ot maybe the Yamaha.
If you use lower end or if you use well set of speaker in a well controlled room (where you don't need equalizer), analog is better.

Locutus2k, goes for analog, try to use nice cable. High end analog-pre are really nice. I guess you are using an all analog system with power amp too. That will be awesome.

For the Jitter on LPCM, Pioneer claim that they use a very nice circuit to control the Jitter over the HDMI
I have a pamphlet about the circuit but I don't have time to scan it and find it in my house.
Check this page (sorry japanese only)
http://pioneer.jp/blu-ray/player/bdp...und/index.html
There is a chapter about the jitter through HDMI. Even it doesn't have feed back from AV amp, Pioneer told me that they don't need a feedback to reduce the jitter. And all I can tell is that I didn't hear any jitter on either DTS-MA, LPCM or True-HD. Jitter that I was hearing with other BD player.
The use of a separate HDMI only for audio greatly improve the sound quality, I compare both with Accross the Universe.

For either analog or HDMI, go for it, that's a bit.

If you want I can take some picture of Wall-E BR and broadcast.
But please, if you want picture, tell me exactely what you want.
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post #30 of 67 Old 12-22-2008, 12:11 AM
cwt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nippon View Post

For the 91/09 the PQLS is for i.link
In any case, Pioneer doesn't develop PQLS for movies, it's only for 2 channel.

Hi nippon ; was referring to the lack of i-link on the 91 to match the pio sc09tx top of the line avr . Not to worry ;compressed lossless bitstream has inherently low jitter compared to lpcm
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