The Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Owner's Thread... - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 08:49 AM
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Pardon my dumb question , but this 4:4:4 RGB processing is it via component cable only?

My understanding is the actual disc is in 4:2:0 and the 09 processes the video to output it as 4:4:4. I think joe like the 4:4:4 best.


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post #542 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzieP View Post

Pardon my dumb question , but this 4:4:4 RGB processing is it via component cable only?

My understanding is the actual disc is in 4:2:0 and the 09 processes the video to output it as 4:4:4. I think joe like the 4:4:4 best.

HDMI only , i dont know why they put component , svideo and video on a player like this

It would be nice if it had HD-SDI

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post #543 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

My guests that came for the game but came early to see the 09FD in action were ecstatic. They all agreed it puts out the image of a $2G player. Smooth and crystal clear was what I heard the most. Also vibrant colors with awesome details! I think I sold one or two more 09s yesterday...



Joerod , i noticed you said smooth. Are you outputting at 24p or 60p?

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post #544 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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If you have a display that does 1080p/24 then you have to do it! 1080p/24 for me.

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post #545 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 10:19 AM
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I have tried HDMI color space, YCbCr 4:4:4 and YCbCr 4:2:2, but have not tried auto yet. I thought 4:4:4 was noticably better then 4:2:2. I noticed one reviewer preferred Auto for his Pio Kuro display. Does anyone else prefer that setting as well? Thanks in advance.
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post #546 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 10:44 AM
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So are the Wolfson DAC's only in use when you go with the Analog outs? Or are they still involved with biststreaming the audio out via HDMI? If the answer is NO then it would be nice if Pioneer made an equivalent to this without the extra cost of the analog outs.
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post #547 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Midwest User1 View Post

So are the Wolfson DAC's only in use when you go with the Analog outs? Or are they still involved with biststreaming the audio out via HDMI? If the answer is NO then it would be nice if Pioneer made an equivalent to this without the extra cost of the analog outs.

No DACs or any part of the analog section is used when using SPDIF outs (Tos or Coax) or HDMI for audio. You might like a transport. The Denon 2500 is the only transport available that I know of.. No analog or DACs at all.... 1/2 the price of the $2K Denon 3800 but can be had for far less than the $1K MSRP..


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #548 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Like i said before , if the picture looks good with certain enhancements than use it. If not , turn it off.

For example , i like smooth mode on my 141-FD but i dont like the artifacts and hiccups it creates , so i dont use it.

Exactly. While numbers may give a theoretical idea of what a piece of equipment is supposed to do, the reality may be something else, or so subtle that only a true videophile (which I don't claim to be) might see it. The 09 is, by all accounts thus far, an excellent player, if a bit steeply priced. I'd hope for some hands-on with it before I plunk down my AX card. Or any other player I'm considering, for that matter.


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post #549 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

No DACs or any part of the analog section is used when using SPDIF outs (Tos or Coax) or HDMI for audio. You might like a transport. The Denon 2500 is the only transport available that I know of.. No analog or DACs at all.... 1/2 the price of the $2K Denon 3800 but can be had for far less than the $1K MSRP..

I love your sigs.

Do you (or anyone) know if there will be more Denon 2500-like transports coming out from the manufacterers or was that basically a novelty item/experimental item?

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #550 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 10:56 AM
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Thanks for the answer. So my next question is can a Blu ray player really improve on the audio if you're bitstreaming all codecs to the receiver? I have the 95FD currently and of course it's not very speedy with loading disks/powering on the unit. So it seems that the 09FD would only net an improvment in picture quality (especially for SD DVD's) and load times.
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post #551 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Midwest User1 View Post

Thanks for the answer. So my next question is can a Blu ray player really improve on the audio if you're bitstreaming all codecs to the receiver? I have the 95FD currently and of course it's not very speedy with loading disks/powering on the unit. So it seems that the 09FD would only net an improvment in picture quality (especially for SD DVD's) and load times.

Agreed. SD DVD is the big sell for an 09 if you're sending bitstream/LPCM audio and 1080P24 video. Load times are improved.

I think most would agrere if you are simply lifting 1080P24 off the disc to pass downstream to your projector and / or sending a bitstream (or even LPCM) HDMI audio signal, there is little sonic differences between most players. I own players of all price points and when sending 1080P24 / LPCM, they all sound and look alike (very good).


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #552 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Agreed. SD DVD is the big sell for an 09 if you're sending bitstream/LPCM audio and 1080P24 video. Load times are improved.

I think most would agrere if you are simply lifting 1080P24 off the disc to pass downstream to your projector and / or sending a bitstream (or even LPCM) HDMI audio signal, there is little sonic differences between most players. I own players of all price points and when sending 1080P24 / LPCM, they all sound and look alike (very good).

And if bitstreaming is not an option at all (I have HDMI 1.2)...how does a player like this look for me? I've been using a PS3 but I'm ready to move past it. I can't say I really have any need for the analogs.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #553 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

No DACs or any part of the analog section is used when using SPDIF outs (Tos or Coax) or HDMI for audio. You might like a transport. The Denon 2500 is the only transport available that I know of.. No analog or DACs at all.... 1/2 the price of the $2K Denon 3800 but can be had for far less than the $1K MSRP..



but no HQV REALTA chipset!

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post #554 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 11:10 AM
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Looking at all the video controls on this unit. My display has the colors a bit overstaurated, will I be able to tone this down via the 09 video controls?


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post #555 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

but no HQV REALTA chipset!

Just a transport... Most folks buying such a unit will using 1080P24 and avoid scaling / deinterlacing all together.


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #556 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by OzzieP View Post

Looking at all the video controls on this unit. My display has the colors a bit overstaurated, will I be able to tone this down via the 09 video controls?

Yes. Get a test disc (e.g. BD Video Essentials) to do a somewhat competent job or [ideally] a full ISF calibration.


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #557 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by OzzieP View Post

Looking at all the video controls on this unit. My display has the colors a bit overstaurated, will I be able to tone this down via the 09 video controls?

Are you noticing that by eye or measuring with a light meter?

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post #558 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 11:18 AM
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Just a transport... Most folks buying such a unit will using 1080P24 and avoid scaling / deinterlacing all together.

True!

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post #559 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

Are you noticing that by eye or measuring with a light meter?


No light meter, just my personal taste(eye). I have toned down the colors as much as I could and still keeping a nice image. However I feel I have reached the limits of my display device and the colors are still a but more vivd than they should be. I was considering getting a VP for further adjustments, but if I could tone the colors down a couple nothches with this player that would work.


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post #560 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by OzzieP View Post

No light meter, just my personal taste(eye). I have toned down the colors as much as I could and still keeping a nice image. However I feel I have reached the limits of my display device and the colors are still a but more vivd than they should be. I was considering getting a VP for further adjustments, but if I could tone the colors down a couple nothches with this player that would work.


What display do you have Ozzie? Have you tried 4:2:2 , that might work better for you. Was the display ever ISF calibrated?

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post #561 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

My guests that came for the game but came early to see the 09FD in action were ecstatic. They all agreed it puts out the image of a $2G player. Smooth and crystal clear was what I heard the most. Also vibrant colors with awesome details! I think I sold one or two more 09s yesterday...

Ya Joe you are driving me nuts with your very positive reviews.
Also understanding the fact that you know what you are doing when you calibrate.
Plus the fact that you also have a Oppo BD-83. I would think that if the 09 was not a visual and audio improvement over the BD-83, you would not be making the statements that you are making.

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post #562 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, I won't post anymore positive comments I am getting from guests about the 09FD.

For my latest Reviews and stuff Search -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
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Check out my Dolby Atmos/Surround first take:

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post #563 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 06:21 PM
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I'm lovin' all your positive comments, joerod. Makes the anticipation for my 09 that much more.

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post #564 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool!

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post #565 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 06:26 PM
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Joe, Pioneer should have given you your 09 for all the 09's you've helped them sell on this forum.

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post #566 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 06:42 PM
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Sorry, I won't post anymore positive comments I am getting from guests about the 09FD.

Forget about your guests, I was talking about you and what you are saying.
If you aren't going to bite, how about a nibble.

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post #567 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

HDMI only , i dont know why they put component , svideo and video on a player like this

It would be nice if it had HD-SDI

I'm hoping it will be moddable to have HD-SDI. Its predecessor is (and zonefree).
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post #568 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 08:07 PM
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I'm guessing Joe probably has a terrific movie watching environment and a cool family too boot. Talks alot about his wife and kids enjoying these toys too. Very cool!

All of us here & certainly on this $2K player thread appreciate the technical stuff but it's those other things Joe talks about too that brings some proper perspective & some humanity to it all.

Thanks Joe.
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post #569 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post

but no HQV REALTA chipset!

and so ? HQV is not automatically the best. I have used the Denon 3930 dvd players and had seen dvds coming out from it having severe frame dropping problem and "over-processed look". At that time the old Pio 59 was miles better for those titles. (I own both at the same time). So to me HQV doesn't mean anything.

and the upcoming uber Denon with HQV is not capable of 24p from dvd. If I'm not mistaken, Realta is simply inherently not possible to have 24p out of 60i. Some HQV guys confirm this very long time ago in the video processors forum. (At that time we were questioning why Realta based *dedicated* video processors cannot do 24p out from dvd)
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post #570 of 8621 Old 02-02-2009, 11:22 PM
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I don't think you can compare the chip set in the Denon 3930 with the BD-09.
I own a Denon 3930 and have never seen what you are talking about. I never had the pio you had but I did have a Oppo. Both the Denon and Oppo were very good players. My preference was the Denon.

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