The Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Owner's Thread... - Page 196 - AVS Forum
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post #5851 of 8597 Old 07-14-2009, 02:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

I chose to set the output level at fixed (maximum level) for my BDP-09FD's analog outputs and left the speaker distances at all the 10ft default settings. My VSX-59TXi receiver then applys MCACC to handle the + & - levels and speaker distances. I think I get the best of both worlds the player does the decoding with it's DACs then the receiver, which is no chump itself does the rest. It sounds great and is easier than turning off MCACC every time I use my blu-ray player.

Fred

Thanks I will have to do some testing on my setup.
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post #5852 of 8597 Old 07-14-2009, 01:11 PM
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Has anyone tried to program the anamorphic mode to a discrete IR code?
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post #5853 of 8597 Old 07-14-2009, 02:38 PM
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Fred, as far as I'm aware speaker distance (i.e. delay) setting happens in the digital domain. If you are using the multi channel analog signal from the 09 setting distance on the processor has no effect since you are bypassing the digital circuitry in the Pioneer.
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post #5854 of 8597 Old 07-14-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Fred, as far as I'm aware speaker distance (i.e. delay) setting happens in the digital domain. If you are using the multi channel analog signal from the 09 setting distance on the processor has no effect since you are bypassing the digital circuitry in the Pioneer.

That would have been the case with my old VSX-55TXi, I could not apply MCACC to the analog inputs and when I bought my DV-59AVi player I had to setup the player's bass management because of that. However the VSX-59TXi does allow me to apply MCACC (all channel equalization) to analog inputs.

I've played around turning it off and there's a noticable difference. I've also used it when playing CDs on the BDP-09FD, I found the pure sound from the internal DACs to not be processed enough for me...

So I think it's going from one set of DACs to an ADC then to a DAC (I'm not 100% sure on this... really), but it sounds great... I could copy the speaker settings from the receiver and use them for the player like I did on the 55TXi/59AVi combo, but then I would have to turn off MCACC everytime I used the BD player. I just find this easier...

Fred
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post #5855 of 8597 Old 07-15-2009, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudykg View Post

Guess I am a little confused here. How in the world can a pre/pro set to bypass possibly do any converting? I have set my Rotel volumes and distances seperately and also set the 09 volume and distances seperately. The Rotel converts everything to what ever audio I select which includes remixing to 7.1 with the 09 set to digital out. If I set the Rotel to multi analog(bypass) and the 09 to analog out, I only get what the 09 processes which can only be what is provided on the sound track. I can not recreate 5.1 to 7.1 or 6.1 if 6.1 or greater is not available on the sound track using bypass on the Rotel. It would surprise me if the #40 can do so being bypassed.

Sorry for the delay in answering have been away for a week.
The No 40 does allow you to do exactly as I described i.e when I select the 5.1 audio i/p card on the 40, I can attach a sound profile to that input. the sound profile I am using does allow me to mix the 2 surround channels into the the 2 back channels to obtain a 7.1 profile. If I want straight thru I dont attach a sound profile.
I also perfer not to use two volume set up's in a serial audio chain, hence the reason for setting the 09 to a fixed audio o/p and then adjusting the speaker volume from one source in my case the No 40.
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post #5856 of 8597 Old 07-15-2009, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

That would have been the case with my old VSX-55TXi, I could not apply MCACC to the analog inputs and when I bought my DV-59AVi player I had to setup the player's bass management because of that. However the VSX-59TXi does allow me to apply MCACC (all channel equalization) to analog inputs.

I've played around turning it off and there's a noticable difference. I've also used it when playing CDs on the BDP-09FD, I found the pure sound from the internal DACs to not be processed enough for me...

So I think it's going from one set of DACs to an ADC then to a DAC (I'm not 100% sure on this... really), but it sounds great... I could copy the speaker settings from the receiver and use them for the player like I did on the 55TXi/59AVi combo, but then I would have to turn off MCACC everytime I used the BD player. I just find this easier...

Fred

I see. I guess you are not running analog mutli channel bypass mode, but converting the analog signal back to digital, run it through the DSP and then convert back to analog. Convenient, but I would think you are sacrifycing some audio quality for that convenience. By the way, if you set distance and channel volume correctly in the player and run multi channel analog in bypass mode, you won't have to turn off MCACC when you use the BD, because in analog bypass mode the MCACC is switched off by default (it bypasses it).
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post #5857 of 8597 Old 07-15-2009, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multimedes View Post

Sorry for the delay in answering have been away for a week.
The No 40 does allow you to do exactly as I described i.e when I select the 5.1 audio i/p card on the 40, I can attach a sound profile to that input. the sound profile I am using does allow me to mix the 2 surround channels into the the 2 back channels to obtain a 7.1 profile. If I want straight thru I dont attach a sound profile.
I also perfer not to use two volume set up's in a serial audio chain, hence the reason for setting the 09 to a fixed audio o/p and then adjusting the speaker volume from one source in my case the No 40.

That makes no sense to me, it sounds like your using the DAC's on the 09, only to reconvert it again in the pre-amp. You are processing the sound several times to do this, it will only sound as good as your weakest link.

That can't be any better than going HDMI straight to your No 40 and skipping all that extra audio processing.
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post #5858 of 8597 Old 07-15-2009, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by OzzieP View Post

That makes no sense to me, it sounds like your using the DAC's on the 09, only to reconvert it again in the pre-amp. You are processing the sound several times to do this, it will only sound as good as your weakest link.

That can't be any better than going HDMI straight to your No 40 and skipping all that extra audio processing.

Unfortunately you are right the 5.1 analog audio i/p module which plugs into the backplane of the No40 converts everything back to digital then into analog for o/p. That and because it's HDMI is limited to 1.1, which I dont have, is the reason I am currently looking for a new processor.
The D-A o/p stage of the No 40 however is similar to that use in their referance audio D to A convertor the No30.6.
So yes 2 conversions, not good, but I get 7.1.
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post #5859 of 8597 Old 07-15-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multimedes View Post

Unfortunately you are right the 5.1 analog audio i/p module which plugs into the backplane of the No40 converts everything back to digital then into analog for o/p. That and because it's HDMI is limited to 1.1, which I dont have, is the reason I am currently looking for a new processor.
The D-A o/p stage of the No 40 however is similar to that use in their referance audio D to A convertor the No30.6.
So yes 2 conversions, not good, but I get 7.1.

Do what the Theta guys did and buy a cheap Integra processor for movies so as to use HDMI and bypass all the conversions. Cheap and effective. Ditch the #40 until they update it.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #5860 of 8597 Old 07-15-2009, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Do what the Theta guys did and buy a cheap Integra processor for movies so as to use HDMI and bypass all the conversions. Cheap and effective. Ditch the #40 until they update it.

I won't ditch the #40 but it will get relegated unfortunately it is not going to be upgraded.
Currently looking at the Krell 707 which is suppose to be gettiong close to its 2nd attemp at HDMI 1.3 and bitstreaming with full Dolby True HD nd DTS Master HD support. Just hope it works reliably this time round.
But if these issues go on much longer I may take up your suggestion.
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post #5861 of 8597 Old 07-15-2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I see. I guess you are not running analog mutli channel bypass mode, but converting the analog signal back to digital, run it through the DSP and then convert back to analog. Convenient, but I would think you are sacrifycing some audio quality for that convenience. By the way, if you set distance and channel volume correctly in the player and run multi channel analog in bypass mode, you won't have to turn off MCACC when you use the BD, because in analog bypass mode the MCACC is switched off by default (it bypasses it).

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "analog bypass mode". Is that in MCACC? I always turn off "stream direct" on all of my inputs. On MCACC I think I have it on "All Channel EQ" mode.

EDIT:

I think I found it:

Using the multichannel analog inputs

If you’ve connected to the multichannel inputs on the rear panel (see Connecting the multichannel analog outputs on page 18), you will be able to select them as your input source.

See Using the Stream Direct mode below if you want to bypass the signal processing in this receiver for a pure analog signal.

SD:3 ANA DIRECT

All analog sources are heard without any digital processing. All processing is done through the analog circuitry and the center channel, if present, will be sent to the front right and left
speakers (the channel level is adjusted automatically). With digital sources, playback is the
same as the NORMAL setting (above).

So if I set that input to Stream Direct 3, that will stay on the setting and keep the analog signal from being processed?
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post #5862 of 8597 Old 07-15-2009, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

That would have been the case with my old VSX-55TXi, I could not apply MCACC to the analog inputs and when I bought my DV-59AVi player I had to setup the player's bass management because of that. However the VSX-59TXi does allow me to apply MCACC (all channel equalization) to analog inputs.

I've played around turning it off and there's a noticable difference. I've also used it when playing CDs on the BDP-09FD, I found the pure sound from the internal DACs to not be processed enough for me...

So I think it's going from one set of DACs to an ADC then to a DAC (I'm not 100% sure on this... really), but it sounds great... I could copy the speaker settings from the receiver and use them for the player like I did on the 55TXi/59AVi combo, but then I would have to turn off MCACC everytime I used the BD player. I just find this easier...

Fred

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "analog bypass mode". Is that in MCACC? I always turn off "stream direct" on all of my inputs. On MCACC I think I have it on "All Channel EQ" mode.

EDIT:

I think I found it:

Using the multichannel analog inputs

If you've connected to the multichannel inputs on the rear panel (see Connecting the multichannel analog outputs on page 18), you will be able to select them as your input source.

See Using the Stream Direct mode below if you want to bypass the signal processing in this receiver for a pure analog signal.

SD:3 ANA DIRECT

All analog sources are heard without any digital processing. All processing is done through the analog circuitry and the center channel, if present, will be sent to the front right and left
speakers (the channel level is adjusted automatically). With digital sources, playback is the
same as the NORMAL setting (above).

So if I set that input to Stream Direct 3, that will stay on the setting and keep the analog signal from being processed?


Correct. You will get the best results by setting up delay and channel trim in the player. Run multi channel analog it in stream direct 3 mode through the receiver. This will prevent your signal from being converted from analog back to digital and then back from digital to analog. This setup will very likely give substantial sonic improvement and you don't have to mess with your MCACC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Correct. You will get the best results by setting up delay and channel trim in the player. Run multi channel analog it in stream direct 3 mode through the receiver. This will prevent your signal from being converted from analog back to digital and then back from digital to analog. This setup will very likely give substantial sonic improvement and you don't have to mess with your MCACC

That makes more sense, that double processing can't be good.
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post #5864 of 8597 Old 07-15-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Correct. You will get the best results by setting up delay and channel trim in the player. Run multi channel analog it in stream direct 3 mode through the receiver. This will prevent your signal from being converted from analog back to digital and then back from digital to analog. This setup will very likely give substantial sonic improvement and you don't have to mess with your MCACC

Yeah that is something I have yet to test out.

I did test out listening to CDs with the player in "pure audio" mode, MCACC shutoff and the receiver in 2ch input with stereo as the selection. I had to supply more volume to the receiver and I almost thought the sound was "too" clean. In other words I could really hear every imperfection in the source material, also I felt it exposed the limitations of my speakers. The overall umph wasn't there.....

I do need to experiment more though.... When I had the 59AVi connected via the analogs when I was using the 55TXi, I had the player's settings configured and I listened to "Dark Side of the Moon" using both iLink and analogs. I really liked both. Analog was a hair cleaner than iLink, iLink had a little more in the way of dynamics to the sound. A real toss-up.... I did chose to use iLink more because the system would default to it when I powered on the player.

Thanks for your input!

Fred
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I emailed Pioneer Monday about it just to confirm it's coming:

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
Sorry, at this time we do not have an ETA for the next update.
I do know they are working on one, so I do expect one soon.
The T2 issue will be corrected on this update.


At least we know it's in the pipeline.....

Fred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

Yeah that is something I have yet to test out.

I did test out listening to CDs with the player in "pure audio" mode, MCACC shutoff and the receiver in 2ch input with stereo as the selection. I had to supply more volume to the receiver and I almost thought the sound was "too" clean. In other words I could really hear every imperfection in the source material, also I felt it exposed the limitations of my speakers. The overall umph wasn't there.....

I do need to experiment more though.... When I had the 59AVi connected via the analogs when I was using the 55TXi, I had the player's settings configured and I listened to "Dark Side of the Moon" using both iLink and analogs. I really liked both. Analog was a hair cleaner than iLink, iLink had a little more in the way of dynamics to the sound. A real toss-up.... I did chose to use iLink more because the system would default to it when I powered on the player.

Thanks for your input!

Fred

Not sure about the Pioneer, but on my Denon and Onkyo gear "pure audio mode" just shuts down the video circuitry, and does not do the same as analog bypass mode. It could be you were just bypassing the DSP while still using the convertors in the receiver in 2 channel. Have fun playing around a little more.
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I just got my Pioneer 09 and will be hooking it up to my Onkyo 855. I always asumed the "direct mode" would bypass the digital circuitry alltogether and keep the signal in the analog domain (i.e. "bypass"). However the manual is a little vague and only says that "minimal processing" is applied in direct mode. Anyone know if the Onkyo direct mode is a true bypass mode? If not this would defeat the purpose of using analog outputs from the 09....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

I emailed Pioneer Monday about it just to confirm it's coming:

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
Sorry, at this time we do not have an ETA for the next update.
I do know they are working on one, so I do expect one soon.
The T2 issue will be corrected on this update.


At least we know it's in the pipeline.....

Fred

Great News
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post #5869 of 8597 Old 07-16-2009, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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That is good news. I am in Vegas on a vacation but would love either Pioneer or Denon to fix it. I would like to do a Terminator marathon soon.

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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

That is good news. I am in Vegas on a vacation but would love either Pioneer or Denon to fix it. I would like to do a Terminator marathon soon.

One could do a Terminator Marathon by just watching all the re-releases of T2!
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I would like to do a Terminator marathon soon.

Does that include the "Sarah Conner Chronicles"?

I did that last year..... Good fun!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

That is good news. I am in Vegas on a vacation but would love either Pioneer or Denon to fix it. I would like to do a Terminator marathon soon.

I have not tried T2 on my Denon.. Does the OPPO play it?

... if not, like the disc is faulty. Usually, bad java discs play on most but not on just a few.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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I have not tried T2 on my Denon.. Does the OPPO play it?

Yes, it played on my Oppo.

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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

That is good news. I am in Vegas on a vacation but would love either Pioneer or Denon to fix it. I would like to do a Terminator marathon soon.

Don't you also have an Oppo, joerod? It plays on that.
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post #5875 of 8597 Old 07-16-2009, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't you also have an Oppo, joerod? It plays on that.

I know. I guess I could live with going with one HDMI input into my receiver/pre-pro for one movie.

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I know. I guess I could live with going with one HDMI input into my receiver/pre-pro for one movie.

Well, so long as you're okay getting only audio or only video. 'Cause of course, one HDMI cable can't possibly handle both......
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgfred View Post

I emailed Pioneer Monday about it just to confirm it's coming:

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
Sorry, at this time we do not have an ETA for the next update.
I do know they are working on one, so I do expect one soon.
The T2 issue will be corrected on this update.


At least we know it's in the pipeline.....

Fred

Thank You
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I have not tried T2 on my Denon.. Does the OPPO play it?

... if not, like the disc is faulty. Usually, bad java discs play on most but not on just a few.

It play on my Pioneer Elite BDP-95FD
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I have not tried T2 on my Denon.. Does the OPPO play it?

... if not, like the disc is faulty. Usually, bad java discs play on most but not on just a few.

Do you have the old 3800 denon
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post #5880 of 8597 Old 07-17-2009, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I just got my Pioneer 09 and will be hooking it up to my Onkyo 855. I always asumed the "direct mode" would bypass the digital circuitry alltogether and keep the signal in the analog domain (i.e. "bypass"). However the manual is a little vague and only says that "minimal processing" is applied in direct mode. Anyone know if the Onkyo direct mode is a true bypass mode? If not this would defeat the purpose of using analog outputs from the 09....

Hi edorr,
Only very,very few AVR,s have true analog bypass and then also use analog volume control,so the answer is NO.For people not sure ,if you have any bass management or eq etc on analog inputs means being Re-digitalize and NOT TRUE bypass.
Hi Multimedes,
In your case, keep ML No 40,if you use for cd and tv etc, and go analog out from player direct into your amps and get FAR better sound than any Multi Pre (To decode HD audio formats) at any price,KRELL,THETA,MARK LEVINSON.Yes they are good HDMI is the problem and NO match for analog 2 channel pre amp in a high end system.
Analog is a bit harder to set up but sound is far more direct and the quality of HD audio is very good,tube amps help of course.
Regards Victor.
MY SYSTEM.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1136036
victor tubeman is offline  
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