The Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Owner's Thread... - Page 289 - AVS Forum
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post #8641 of 8651 Old 11-25-2014, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post
Thanks much!

So, in plain English (lol) the ONLY difference between the 88 and the 85 has to do with analog audio?

So if you are only using HDMI the two are exactly the same?

A few thousand posts back in this thread I asked a related question about the BDP-09FD == why on earth would anyone buy one and not use its analog outputs? Now it does indeed seem improved analog audio is the only difference between the BDP-88FD over the BDP-85FD. Anyone who wants to eek out every last sonic improvement from a high end analog system will likely seek out the BDP-88FD. Anyone who buys a BDP-88FD and doesn't use its analog audio is just making an extra generous contribution to Pioneer's bottom line.
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post #8642 of 8651 Old 11-25-2014, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by cbono View Post
A few thousand posts back in this thread I asked a related question about the BDP-09FD == why on earth would anyone buy one and not use its analog outputs? Now it does indeed seem improved analog audio is the only difference between the BDP-88FD over the BDP-85FD. Anyone who wants to eek out every last sonic improvement from a high end analog system will likely seek out the BDP-88FD. Anyone who buys a BDP-88FD and doesn't use its analog audio is just making an extra generous contribution to Pioneer's bottom line.
The 09FD was better on HDMi than the other ones from the same line, that's not ONLY an analog improvement.
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post #8643 of 8651 Old 11-25-2014, 06:10 AM
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The 09FD was better on HDMi than the other ones from the same line, that's not ONLY an analog improvement.

Please explain, how was HDMI "better" on this machine?
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post #8644 of 8651 Old 11-25-2014, 06:19 AM
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The sound was better on HDMI even without pure audio, than the LX08 I still own. It was on the same Emotiva UMC1 preamp, on the same setup and same room. Better defined low end, and more dynamics overall.
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post #8645 of 8651 Old 11-25-2014, 07:55 AM
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The sound was better on HDMI even without pure audio, than the LX08 I still own. It was on the same Emotiva UMC1 preamp, on the same setup and same room. Better defined low end, and more dynamics overall.
I find that interesting...

You realize that the BDP-LX08 and the BDP-09FD use the same DAC's?

The BDP-LX08, BDP-05FD, BDP-51FD, BDP-71FD, are fundamentally the same machines; they share the same firmware. The BDP-09FD is also basically the same machine offered a year latter with the primary differences (with the exception of 4X the price) being BD-Live 2.0 vs. 1.1, a slightly better DVD decoding chip, and the same DAC's wired in dual differential vs. single ended configuration.

The DAC's in duel differential mode produce an on paper spec improvement of 3dB signal-to-noise ratio. This improvement can be measured but in real use is inaudible. I owned the BDP-05FD, BDP-51FD, and BDP-09FD and could find no difference in sound quality between the 3 units using analog or HDMI using the players as the decoding unit or in bitstream mode. Because of this comparison, I returned the BDP-09FD to the store of purchase.

YMMV.
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post #8646 of 8651 Old 11-25-2014, 08:24 AM
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DACs have nothing to do at all on a numeric transport, so that's not the point here, I didn't even try the 09FD (LX91 in my case) on its analog outputs.
There are far more things on the numeric side of the world that most don't seem to know about at all, the 51FD, LX71 and LX08 sound the same, yes, I tried.
But the 09/91 is a better machine, with a different PSU, clock, housing, isolation and lot other things, and I confirm you, the sound although beeing similar to the ear, is better on the 09/91.

And I wasn't the only one to find it that way, from those who tested it in France.
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post #8647 of 8651 Old 11-25-2014, 09:54 AM
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Not ever using HDMI for any serious audio output I'm forced to wonder how the sound can be any different on the other end when all the digital bits are delivered. This is similar to how I feel about HDMI cables - if a $10 HDMI cable is delivering all the digital data, how could a more expensive cable provide any (audio or video) improvements?
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post #8648 of 8651 Old 11-25-2014, 10:31 AM
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Not at all. There's no difference between HDMI cables, that's true, but simply try 2 different players through HDMI on the same setup, you'll find out by yourself.
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post #8649 of 8651 Old 11-26-2014, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post
Thanks much!

So, in plain English (lol) the ONLY difference between the 88 and the 85 has to do with analog audio?

So if you are only using HDMI the two are exactly the same?

I'm no expert, and there are those who would argue that the two aren't necessarily the same even with HDMI, but I'd say yes in theory. Someone more knowledgeable is free to chime in.

Also, I'm just realizing this is OT, as there's a separate thread about the 88 and 85.
Pioneer Elite BDP-85FD and BDP-88FD Blu-ray Players at CEDIA 2014
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post #8650 of 8651 Old 11-26-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post
I'm no expert, and there are those who would argue that the two aren't necessarily the same even with HDMI, but I'd say yes in theory. Someone more knowledgeable is free to chime in.

Also, I'm just realizing this is OT, as there's a separate thread about the 88 and 85.
Pioneer Elite BDP-85FD and BDP-88FD Blu-ray Players at CEDIA 2014
Well, not totally "off" topic - as I own the 09FD and absolutely love it - even if it is "slow" by today's standards...

However, I have never used it for its analog qualities - I only use HDMI.

So, I am trying to compare the 88 and 85 to my 09FD to see which is the right one for me to "upgrade" to...
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post #8651 of 8651 Old 11-26-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post
Well, not totally "off" topic - as I own the 09FD and absolutely love it - even if it is "slow" by today's standards...

However, I have never used it for its analog qualities - I only use HDMI.

So, I am trying to compare the 88 and 85 to my 09FD to see which is the right one for me to "upgrade" to...
Fair enough. There's one feature the 88 has which may make a difference. According to an Audioholics preview, the 88 has different construction. Here's an excerpt:

"To greatly reduce unwanted vibration, both Elite models utilize a double-layered chassis for low center of gravity as well as a highly rigid bonnet structure. Increased performance also comes from the use of acoustic electric capacitors and high grade components. In addition, the BDP-88FD employs a 3-chamber structure separating its power supply, digital processing circuitry, and audio circuitry."


The 88's chamber construction suggests, to me, that there could be some potential difference in the signal, analog or digital. How much is another matter. Anytime you can get a power supply away from the processing circuitry, it's good.
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