The Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Owner's Thread... - Page 291 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8701 of 8704 Old Yesterday, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post
For Blu-ray playback, bitstreamed over HDMI, no difference as the decoding and DA conversion will take place in your AVR.


The differences if any will be in the use of the machines for analog playback of CD's. The 88 has balanced analog outputs vs. single ended on the 85. The 88 has both coax and optical digital outs vs. coax only for the 85. There is also a different count in the number of DAC's used. You'll have to find the product brochure sheets to compare the other differences. I do remember the usual blather about build quality, big transformer etc.


I think it was stated by the Pioneer rep in the other thread about these players that the primary market/target market for these two players was Japan for CD playback as CD's were still alive and the media of choice for music. Maybe you want to look at that thread.


If your using the machine for both two channel CD playback as well as Blu-ray playback then maybe it's a good choice for you. If it's Blu-ray/DVD only then I don't see the point in spending the money other than you just like the looks of it and want or must have Pioneer.


Another thing to consider, the Analog Sunset has kicked in. That means no analog video outputs and you can only get multi-channel audio via HDMI as there are no multi-channel analog outputs on either machine. Again, you would have the decoding and DA conversion taking place in your AVR for multi-channel audio support. The DAC's in these machines would only come into play for two channel analog as far as I can see.
Which thread is that...?

So, in other words if I use HDMI - there is no difference between the LX58 and the LX 88.....

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post #8702 of 8704 Old Today, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post
Which thread is that...?
You do seem to be incredibly lazy...

You just need to scroll down the page a few inches, here's the link:
Pioneer Elite BDP-85FD and BDP-88FD Blu-ray Players at CEDIA 2014

While we're spoon feeding, here's the pdf's of the specifications for the BDP-88/85. You can click and view or print them so you can make your own comparisons.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ep...le%20Sheet.pdf
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ep...le%20Sheet.pdf

If you care to look at post number #103 in the other thread, by Chris Walker (Walkamo) who is the Pioneer representative, he talks about the BDP-88/85 being targeted at high resolution audio in the Japanese and European markets.

Just in case your clicking finger isn't working, here's his quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post
Hey Guys,

Have not been in these forums for quite some time.. I have only played with the BDP-88FD during the Cedia show. Have not had a chance to compare it to my Oppo BDP-105 (Yes I use a BDP-105). The build quality is quite nice and the picture did look very good. (We had it hooked up to a Panasonic 65" 4K TV that accepted 4:4:4 color).

I understand why people are surprised that these players are being launched so late in Blu-ray's life, however in other countries (Japan mainly), our BD player marketshare is quite large and the demand for a high end player is there. I do not expect a large quantity to be sold in the United States, however anyone looking to squeeze every bit of performance out of a Blu-ray, DVD, CD, or high res file the BDP-88FD makes sense. High Resolution audio is very popular in Japan and Europe and the BDP-88FD was designed to be a very high quality source device for these files.

I am currently at LAX Airport on my way to Japan for product planning meetings and to see the 88FD compared directly to the Oppo. I am very curious to see the results as well..

Not trying to sway anyone in any direction. Just giving out some facts...

If you have any specific questions about the players just ask. If I do not know I can ask the engineers..

Also, here is a nice pic of the BDP-88FD (exploded view).

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post

So, in other words if I use HDMI - there is no difference between the LX58 and the LX 88.....
You've asked this question several times. Are you hoping the answer is going to change if you keep asking? Really, if you want to buy one of these machines just buy it. It really doesn't mater what I think or what the technology does or doesn't do if you've got your heart set on it, buy it.

But, just in case, one more time.

If you bitstream over HDMI, the decoding and DA conversion takes place in the AVR or pre-pro.

If you send PCM over HDMI, the decoding takes place at the Blu-ray player and the DA conversion is done at the AVR or the pre-pro. If you use PCM over HDMI the DTS-MA etc. lights on your AVR or pre-pro will not light up as the decoding is being done at the Blu-ray player.

In either case, bitstream or PCM over HDMI, the DA conversion is taking place at your AVR or pre-pro and you will have the "sound" of the AVR or pre-pro because that's where the DA conversion is taking place.

The DAC's in the DBP-88/85 will not be used for bitstreaming or PCM over HDMI. The BDP-88/85 will serve as transports to read the disc and send the data to the AVR or pre-pro for processing. In that way, the machines are equal. One step further, if you're using the machines as a transport only then any Blu-ray player preforms the same task regardless of price or brand name, that is, they read the data from the disc and send it to the AVR or pre-pro for decoding and DA conversion.

Your welcome!
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post #8703 of 8704 Old Today, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
For Blu-ray playback, bitstreamed over HDMI, no difference as the decoding and DA conversion will take place in your AVR.


The differences if any will be in the use of the machines for analog playback of CD's. The 88 has balanced analog outputs vs. single ended on the 85. The 88 has both coax and optical digital outs vs. coax only for the 85. There is also a different count in the number of DAC's used. You'll have to find the product brochure sheets to compare the other differences. I do remember the usual blather about build quality, big transformer etc.


I think it was stated by the Pioneer rep in the other thread about these players that the primary market/target market for these two players was Japan for CD playback as CD's were still alive and the media of choice for music. Maybe you want to look at that thread.


If your using the machine for both two channel CD playback as well as Blu-ray playback then maybe it's a good choice for you. If it's Blu-ray/DVD only then I don't see the point in spending the money other than you just like the looks of it and want or must have Pioneer.


Another thing to consider, the Analog Sunset has kicked in. That means no analog video outputs and you can only get multi-channel audio via HDMI as there are no multi-channel analog outputs on either machine. Again, you would have the decoding and DA conversion taking place in your AVR for multi-channel audio support. The DAC's in these machines would only come into play for two channel analog as far as I can see.
The 88 is geared toward the two-channel setup, be it audio or video, so it would be a good choice for me and others who have such. If the 88 has better DACs than one's AVR, maybe there's a way to decode in the player; a manual will be helpful. With the 09, of course, everything is in place. It would be interesting to me to compare the two players sound-wise.
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post #8704 of 8704 Old Today, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post
Which thread is that...?

So, in other words if I use HDMI - there is no difference between the LX58 and the LX 88.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post
The 88 is geared toward the two-channel setup, be it audio or video, so it would be a good choice for me and others who have such. If the 88 has better DACs than one's AVR, maybe there's a way to decode in the player; a manual will be helpful. With the 09, of course, everything is in place. It would be interesting to me to compare the two players sound-wise.
It looks to me like a repeat of the BDP-05/51FD and BDP-09FD marketing plan. The primary differences between the BDP-88 and 85 are dual differential DAC's for a little better S/N ratio on paper and some extra output choices for CD playback. That and the build quality card that hooks a lot of people. Everything else is more or less the same.

Analog Sunset has kicked in and I don't see any possible way to use the internal DAC's for lossless multi-channel playback or over HDMI. To do so would be to re-write how HDMI works and there are no multi-channel outs on these machines like the old BDP-05/51FD and BDP-09FD players.

For me these new machines are just an alternate choice to the Oppo BDP-103/105 at a much higher price point. Pioneer is a day late and a dollar short to the party IMHO. But as Walkamo stated, the target market was/is Japan.

If I was in the market for a new CD player and knowing how fast the price will drop on these machines, I would consider picking one up at year end or first of next year. But as a Blu-ray player I have no interest as they offer nothing over Oppo or any cheaper players if your main interest is to bitstream Blu-ray.
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