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gbaby's Avatar gbaby
08:35 PM Liked: 35
post #61 of 8651
01-24-2009 | Posts: 2,212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Good points by JonStatt for analog. Let me also add that at this moment, the 09 still has a fixed crossover for bass management whereas the 3800 allows for 40/60/80/100/120Hz as crossover choices.

I think we all make too much of an issue with the crossover frequencies for these units. For one, the crossover needs to be the same for all speakers to prevent phase problems. Two, as long as all of your speakers will play down to at least 110hz, although lower would be better, you'll be fine. Sony with the BDP-S5000ES have figured out a way to make this player really shine with True DolbyHD and DTS-MA, the new audio surround cedecs. I'm certain Pioneer has done the same with the '09. Giving out the exact frequency response may be a trade secret for these companies.
dogone's Avatar dogone
08:47 PM Liked: 10
post #62 of 8651
01-24-2009 | Posts: 2,155
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Originally Posted by dogone
Joerod...Is the 09 plagued with the same 3 to 4 second layer change issue that the 05/51 has?...and why does Pioneer have this problem?...and also, does anyone know if it can be fixed with a firmware upgrade?

It appears so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod
I have a SP1000 in my set up (which I will keep for slideshows before the feature presentation) and besides the dreaded layer change the 09FD is superior in every way.

__________________


WoW!...$2200.00 to watch your standard dvd's freeze!...Yikes!...
Walkamo's Avatar Walkamo
10:16 PM Liked: 50
post #63 of 8651
01-24-2009 | Posts: 559
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For those who are interested here are some internal pics of the BDP-09FD (With and without the analog audio section).. I just orderd a Sony BDP-S5000ES from Robert as well... I will rip it apart once I receive it...

Glad those who purchased the 09 are enjoying it....

I will keep everyone up to date with new firmware as it becomes available (Right now 2 area scheduled)...

Thanks,

Chris





Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

Yes, the product sheet/brochure confirms my curiousity about audiophile design of this unit:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ep...s/BDP-09FD.pdf

This player is serious! Discrete, separate, torroidial power-supplies for audio and video. aluminum and metal construction/bracing.

Now I'm very curious how good 2ch (CD) playback is. Did also notice this unit only has 5.1ch OUT's, and no additional discrete 2ch OUT's. I assume CD playback outputs to FRONT channels of 5.1ch OUT's?

This may replace my DVD-3800BDCI. We'll see.........


LL
LL
OzzieP's Avatar OzzieP
10:55 PM Liked: 16
post #64 of 8651
01-24-2009 | Posts: 2,018
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Maybe it's me but all those pics look way overly saturated, and I would be disapointed if thats what the image looked like on my screen.
However I have to guess that is the photo that looks horrible and the image is much nicer in person.

What I am glad to see is the return of the wolfson dac's.
I do plan on using those anolog outs and I love the sound from the wolfies.

My understanding is that some of the DTS HD audio will only work after the firmware upgrade??? Do you know what this firmware upgrade will actually give to this player and when will it be avalible?

You mention how some of these players have more more control of the video.
Is it good enough on this player that one could bypass some of the cheaper VP's that are in the market?

Thanks again joerod for the info, this player is at the top of my hit list for the dreaded "UPGRADE" word.

Is the bland right?
Is the player to beat arrived!!!
alebonau's Avatar alebonau
11:11 PM Liked: 28
post #65 of 8651
01-24-2009 | Posts: 2,119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzieP View Post

Maybe it's me but all those pics look way overly saturated, and I would be disapointed if thats what the image looked like on my screen.
However I have to guess that is the photo that looks horrible and the image is much nicer in person.

What I am glad to see is the return of the wolfson dac's.
I do plan on using those anolog outs and I love the sound from the wolfies.

My understanding is that some of the DTS HD audio will only work after the firmware upgrade??? Do you know what this firmware upgrade will actually give to this player and when will it be avalible?

You mention how some of these players have more more control of the video.
Is it good enough on this player that one could bypass some of the cheaper VP's that are in the market?

Thanks again joerod for the info, this player is at the top of my hit list for the dreaded "UPGRADE" word.

Is the bland right?
Is the player to beat arrived!!!

I know from personal experience it is very hard to take screen shots that do justice. so much is down to technique, lighting and the camera. in the end the camera does lie

and not blaming joe rod here or calling to question his camera skills but I wouldnt be too judgemental looking at the screen shots.

need to keep in mind what you see is also down to your PC and display yoru viewing from as well. quite unlikely thats calibrated in any regard

"is the bland right" ? bloody hell no one please tell him that we'll never here the end of it hehe

ps joe one thing agree on I really miss with the sony 5000 is the display output button my pio had. which on the fly could switch video output format to see with my own eyes. with the sony have to go into the menu to do that. so jsut leave the sony to its own devices on "auto" setting and have to trust its doing the best by you


Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

For those who are interested here are some internal pics of the BDP-09FD (With and without the analog audio section).. I just orderd a Sony BDP-S5000ES from Robert as well... I will rip it apart once I receive it...

~
Chris

bloody hell Chris talk about rutheless competitive spirit ! hehe

ps you'll find a nice analog stage and dac board in the sony as well, plus its quality power stage using as R-core power power supply that it has used previously in high end ES players. quite a few pics in the 5000es owners thread and with link to dtvpolska where the guys took it to bits. but know what you mean, I opened mine up to have a look, nothing beats havign a peak with yoru own eyes to see the level of design and engineering things have on board
joerod's Avatar joerod
12:31 AM Liked: 117
post #66 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 22,129
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I will be the first to admit that taking screen shots is a huge pain for me. I use a Canon G9 (Alan Gouger suggested it to me awhile back). And please note that the picture Q looks much better in person to. I try to make them as clear and not as crazy vibrant as possible but between the camera and everyone's PCs it is much easier said than done. Atleast the wife likes the Brad Pitt one. I learned a lesson there! Part 2 will hit sometime tomorrow. I was doing plenty of benchmark work tonite and the time took off. I am just now finishing. And as per request from a few out there I am posting a pic of the Display command (pioneer's Info) when playing a title... Very impressive...
I plan to sleep 4 or 5 hours then get back into it...

And yes, I didn't put JFK in Dolby TrueHD. I just put it in for a minute so I could get a decent pic of the Display info. If you pause it the Mpbs all drop to zero so I had to get this one with the movie playing...
LL
WestCoastD's Avatar WestCoastD
12:44 AM Liked: 31
post #67 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 7,393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

here are some internal pics of the BDP-09FD (With and without the analog audio section)..

beautiful images, very nice unit construction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

I just orderd a Sony BDP-S5000ES from Robert as well... I will rip it apart once I receive it

will be very interested to compare the internals of this unit to the BDP-09FD and the DVD-3800BDCI

Really appreciate it!
Franin's Avatar Franin
01:14 AM Liked: 299
post #68 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 17,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post

When I tested it, it was about 23 secs from the moment the tray closed to when it played.

What about when powering up the player, I noticed with my LX70A that takes awhile before you can do anything. Hopefully they have improved that.
a_ok2me's Avatar a_ok2me
01:25 AM Liked: 10
post #69 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

What about when powering up the player, I noticed with my LX70A that takes awhile before you can do anything. Hopefully they have improved that.

I was already on, but I never thought to try it.
Franin's Avatar Franin
01:35 AM Liked: 299
post #70 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 17,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post

I was already on, but I never thought to try it.

Hi a_ok2me when do you get a chance could you please let us know, thankyou.
a_ok2me's Avatar a_ok2me
01:41 AM Liked: 10
post #71 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Hi a_ok2me when do you get a chance could you please let us know, thankyou.

Sorry - I don't own the unit and probably won't be back at the store again to try it. Joerod could probably get back to you on this.
MXM's Avatar MXM
03:12 AM Liked: 10
post #72 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

I imagine it is the same as the 05....some BR movies you can resume, and some you can't.

The only way round this,is to use the pause button,after about 30 seconds the screen saver appears,when you want to resume just press play!!

That's what i do,with my LX91.

MXM
Franin's Avatar Franin
04:47 AM Liked: 299
post #73 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 17,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post

Sorry - I don't own the unit and probably won't be back at the store again to try it. Joerod could probably get back to you on this.

Oh ok cool, Joerod can you confirm the power up time? The reson being as stated previously the pioneer bd lx70a had horrible power up time.
MXM's Avatar MXM
05:14 AM Liked: 10
post #74 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Oh ok cool, Joerod can you confirm the power up time? The reson being as stated previously the pioneer bd lx70a had horrible power up time.

My LX91,takes 23 seconds to power up.


MXM
Franin's Avatar Franin
06:19 AM Liked: 299
post #75 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 17,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXM View Post

My LX91,takes 23 seconds to power up.


MXM

Oh ok I thought they would have sorted that. Not much of a big deal with this player as by the sounds of it the Pro's outweigh the cons.
JonStatt's Avatar JonStatt
07:35 AM Liked: 48
post #76 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 2,262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

beautiful images, very nice unit construction.

will be very interested to compare the internals of this unit to the BDP-09FD and the DVD-3800BDCI

Really appreciate it!


There are pictures of the S5000ES open easily available. I am in a rush so can't search for the link right now. BUt the S5000 also has a separate power supply for audio (using an R-core transformer which arguably is even better than a straight torroidal). The audio board is like the Pioneer with all channels on one board (Denon has front/stereo separated from other channels). The S5000 uses the same DACs as the Denon but in single-differential. This loses 3dB SNR but is still a higher SNR than the dual-differential Wolfson DACs in the Pioneer.

Thus, there is no clear winner from the construction point of view. I have poured over all of the designs. On paper, the Denon should be the best...but they are all so close...that I think it will depend on personal taste.

The Sony and Pioneer feature anti-jitter technology (with the Sony using a special cirrus logic anti-jitter chip). There has been no indication of anti-jitter technologies in the Denon, but Denon don't always market what they do "under the hood" very well.
Tim Glover's Avatar Tim Glover
08:24 AM Liked: 11
post #77 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 1,434
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Well done joe and you must feel the pressure of your highly anticipated summary! This player, as well as the SonyES, & Denon 3800 are among the selected group that most of us just can't go down to our local 'Bob's Hi-Fi Depot' and demo it. Those of us looking for that extra bit of image detail or sound nuance, are watching this with great interest.

I've done some recent BD player testing as well and it's quite difficult to really level each playing field. Kudos to you on trying to make this detailed, informative, and also fair. Thanks.

I've long been a fan of leaving every possible image setting in the player alone, wanting to use my projector for adjustments. So with that in mind, it will be interesting to see how these players perform without tweaks etc...

That display shot is the exact same used on Pioneer's BDP-51 to which I use. I love the on screen display that Pioneer is using.

Get some rest and we look forward to more of your thoughts.
joerod's Avatar joerod
09:49 AM Liked: 117
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I am working on my part 2 now and wanted to make a quick post. I counted between 10 and 12 each time I powered up the 09FD. I didn't get out a stop watch but I would say that is about right. From the time you hit power until it says no disc.
DTV TiVo Dealer's Avatar DTV TiVo Dealer
09:50 AM Liked: 10
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Joe has the latest firmware in his 09FD.

-Robert
OzzieP's Avatar OzzieP
09:51 AM Liked: 16
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Quote:


keep in mind what you see is also down to your PC and display yoru viewing from as well. quite unlikely thats calibrated in any regard

Hey I have my laptop screen is calibrated down to a gnat's ass every single time before I visit this forum by trained professionals!


Officialy pioneer says this will be on the firmware update.
DTS-HD Master Audio via Firmware Update
DTS-HD High Resolution Audio via Firmware Update

However it does not say when or what else will be on there.
I hope it's sooner rather than later as long as they get it right
and not pull a denon on us.

I also did not see plays any of the fancy audio disc (DVD-Audio,SACD, ect)
I am gueesing not and since no little (*firmware update) so I won't hold my breath on it.
Also wondering if the ethernet port can be used for things other than firmware updates and BD-Live.
sbraccioforte's Avatar sbraccioforte
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01-25-2009 | Posts: 1
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Any idea if the RS-232 Port will be available. I was disapointed that in the manual it states "This terminal is not used".
joerod's Avatar joerod
10:05 AM Liked: 117
post #82 of 8651
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Yes, my 09FD has the latest firmware. As does any component I am using in this comparison study. My guests just arrived so I am going to do the final step for part 2. Public opinion from the average joe sixpacks & sally shoppers of the world.... Each have their own designated clipboard and perfect vision! (yes, I am sick like that)... No worries, I am giving them each a gift certificate and plus free popcorn!!!
Brian-HD's Avatar Brian-HD
10:30 AM Liked: 30
post #83 of 8651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Yes, my 09FD has the latest firmware. As does any component I am using in this comparison study. My guests just arrived so I am going to do the final step for part 2. Public opinion from the average joe sixpacks & sally shoppers of the world.... Each have their own designated clipboard and perfect vision! (yes, I am sick like that)... No worries, I am giving them each a gift certificate and plus free popcorn!!!

Do you have an OPPO 983? It would be nice to compare the 983 to the 09 for SD.
joerod's Avatar joerod
10:35 AM Liked: 117
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I have the NDA agreement with Oppo so I will not be publicly disclosing any info on it just yet. This comparison study will mainly focus on the big 3 and will have a few comments thrown in about a few other players....
WestCoastD's Avatar WestCoastD
10:40 AM Liked: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

the S5000 also has a separate power supply for audio (using an R-core transformer which arguably is even better than a straight torroidal). The audio board is like the Pioneer with all channels on one board (Denon has front/stereo separated from other channels). The S5000 uses the same DACs as the Denon but in single-differential. This loses 3dB SNR but is still a higher SNR than the dual-differential Wolfson DACs in the Pioneer

very interesting, thanks for this info. Now I'm curious if there are any internal shot's of the BDP-05FD/51FD available? Did'nt notice any on that thread.
Brian-HD's Avatar Brian-HD
10:41 AM Liked: 30
post #86 of 8651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I have the NDA agreement with Oppo so I will not be publicly disclosing any info on it just yet. This comparison study will mainly focus on the big 3 and will have a few comments thrown in about a few other players....

The NDA is not for the 983. The question was specific for the 983 only and SD. You kinda opened the door a little with this. "SD dvds. They look exceptional. This may be the main reason I decide to bypass my VP and go straight into my PJ. I have seen many SD dvd players and to my eyes the 09FD is the best I have witnessed."
joerod's Avatar joerod
11:19 AM Liked: 117
post #87 of 8651
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Sorry Brian. I am getting a lot of questions about Oppo's new Blu ray unit and that's why I just assumed... Sorry, no SD dvd player comparisons here. I am doing (now as I post this) Blu ray player comparisons...
Brian-HD's Avatar Brian-HD
11:22 AM Liked: 30
post #88 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 2,220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Sorry Brian. I am getting a lot of questions about Oppo's new Blu ray unit and that's why I just assumed... Sorry, no SD dvd player comparisons here. I am doing (now as I post this) Blu ray player comparisons...

Thank You..... Continue your fine work.
a_ok2me's Avatar a_ok2me
11:24 AM Liked: 10
post #89 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I am working on my part 2 now and wanted to make a quick post. I counted between 10 and 12 each time I powered up the 09FD. I didn't get out a stop watch but I would say that is about right. From the time you hit power until it says no disc.

So add 23 secs to load makes it about 35 sec max from power to load...
Hughman's Avatar Hughman
12:07 PM Liked: 12
post #90 of 8651
01-25-2009 | Posts: 2,247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

very interesting, thanks for this info. Now I'm curious if there are any internal shot's of the BDP-05FD/51FD available? Did'nt notice any on that thread.

I don't think I've seen an internal shot yet but here's one I just photographed for comparion, or should that be for "no comparison", purposes.
LL
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