The Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Owner's Thread... - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 11:50 AM
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I'm confused on how the 09FD can sound better than the 05/51 in bitstream mode? It's just sending raw data to the prepro to process. Unless I'm missing something?


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post #92 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I'm confused on how the 09FD can sound better than the 05/51 in bitstream mode? It's just sending raw data to the prepro to process. Unless I'm missing something?

Agreed. Something is wrong here. Joerod, I appreciate you taking the time doing these test, but I feel you devote too much time comparing minute picture differences and not enough or no time on the sound of analog. Most folks who spend this kind of money on blu-ray do not have the capabilities of playing the new codecs through HDMI so they buy a player that can play them through the analog outs. So, please lets concentrate on the sound of the units through their analog outputs as anyone can get a lesser priced player if their pre/pro or receiver can play sound over HDMI. We also know the the variations in picture quality of the blu-rays are close and fundamentally the same so please, focus on the analog comparisions. Thanks.
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post #93 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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That is what is taking so loooong. I had to hook up each player with all those rca cables! Thank God for the Zektor switcher!!! No worries, I am spending a lot more time on sound then I ever have before. And I was only comparing King Kong's DTS-HD Blu ray to the HD DVD DD+ version being played on the HD805/XA2...

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post #94 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Agreed. Something is wrong here. Joerod, I appreciate you taking the time doing these test, but I feel you devote too much time comparing minute picture differences and not enough or no time on the sound of analog. Most folks who spend this kind of money on blu-ray do not have the capabilities of playing the new codecs through HDMI so they buy a player that can play them through the analog outs. So, please lets concentrate on the sound of the units through their analog outputs as anyone can get a lesser priced player if their pre/pro or receiver can play sound over HDMI. We also know the the variations in picture quality of the blu-rays are close and fundamentally the same so please, focus on the analog comparisions. Thanks.

I agree with you with what users want to know.

1) Analog out
2) Load time
3) SD has been answered
4) Performance--user friendly
5) Built has been answered
6) BD should be the same with any other player
7) HDMI out same as 6
8) Software issue(s)
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post #95 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

beautiful images, very nice unit construction.

will be very interested to compare the internals of this unit to the BDP-09FD and the DVD-3800BDCI

Really appreciate it!


Here you go..
LL
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post #96 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I'm confused on how the 09FD can sound better than the 05/51 in bitstream mode? It's just sending raw data to the prepro to process. Unless I'm missing something?

If the processor's analog section isn't as good as the player's, that could do it.

I agree that in the case of bitstreaming the bits don't have to be reclocked the way they do if PCM is sent to a processor, so jitter probably is a non-issue. But even then, if the clock in the player is more accurate than the clock in the processor, the D/A conversion in the player could be better than when done by the processor.
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post #97 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

Here you go..

Not as impressive as the innards of the 09FD.
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post #98 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraccioforte View Post

Any idea if the RS-232 Port will be available. I was disapointed that in the manual it states "This terminal is not used".


The RS-232 Terminal works fine..

Tried to post here, however the PDF is 503kb.. Limit for AVS is 500k...

I will put it on our website tomorrow...

Chris
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post #99 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:45 PM
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I saw the 09 up close and personal (with Chris). THe innards are first rate and eclipse the 3800s.


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #100 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

That is what is taking so loooong. I had to hook up each player with all those rca cables! Thank God for the Zektor switcher!!! No worries, I am spending a lot more time on sound then I ever have before. And I was only comparing King Kong's DTS-HD Blu ray to the HD DVD DD+ version being played on the HD805/XA2...

You have my sincere thanks and appreciation.
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post #101 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

The RS-232 Terminal works fine..

Tried to post here, however the PDF is 503kb.. Limit for AVS is 500k...

I will put it on our website tomorrow...

Chris

Thank you! This was a big concern for some of us! (I assume you mean it'll be on Pioneer's CI site?)
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post #102 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

If the processor's analog section isn't as good as the player's, that could do it.

I agree that in the case of bitstreaming the bits don't have to be reclocked the way they do if PCM is sent to a processor, so jitter probably is a non-issue. But even then, if the clock in the player is more accurate than the clock in the processor, the D/A conversion in the player could be better than when done by the processor.

Analog section doesn't apply when we are talking bitstream. I always felt the primary attraction of this player when first announced was it's state of the art decoders. I'm sure it has a great analog section and would be beneficial to those looking to output audio through 2 ch or multichannel analog. If you buy this player to bitstream, I think it's a waste of money unless video is clearly superior to the 05/51 .


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post #103 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

If you buy this player to bitstream, I think it's a waste of money unless video is clearly superior to the 05/51 .

I agree about video quality being THE main factor is deciding whether to upgrade or not from the 05/51. That's what I'm waiting for...since we can't buy it to play SACD or DVD-A's (couldn't resist )

I'll consider the 09 if it's a clear improvement over the 05 or the competition. Otherwise, I'll pass on it. I began to lose interest in the 09 after we found out Pioneer left out things on the audio side that would have made it the perfect match with a Susano receiver & hi-rez audio. But I'm still a potential buyer if its **proven** that its the best on PQ.

Can other owners overseas chime in on comparisons? I'm hoping Joe or someone can objectively compare it with the 05/51.

ss9001

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post #104 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

If you buy this player to bitstream, I think it's a waste of money unless video is clearly superior to the 05/51 .

No offense to anyone else, but I have to agree with you on the above quote. Its right on the money!
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post #105 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Analog section doesn't apply when we are talking bitstream. I always felt the primary attraction of this player when first announced was it's state of the art decoders. I'm sure it has a great analog section and would be beneficial to those looking to output audio through 2 ch or multichannel analog. If you buy this player to bitstream, I think it's a waste of money unless video is clearly superior to the 05/51 .

Onboard decode to analog out is what I'm looking for in a player, along with HD-SDI out and zonefree. So it's kind of ironic--the 09FD does great on video processing and I don't care.

I just hope it can be modified.
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post #106 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Waste of money may be a bit harsh but I totally agree about the video quality. It's "The" key factor is deciding whether to upgrade or not from the 05/51. ss9001

Didn't mean to sound harsh... if the video is a MAJOR improvement over the 05/51 then it's worth it. If someone's primary goal is decoding TRUEHD and DTS HD formats and pass it through via analog then I would I would buy this player myself if my prepro didn't already decode them.


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post #107 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman View Post

I don't think I've seen an internal shot yet but here's one I just photographed for comparion, or should that be for "no comparison", purposes.

very interesting. Hard to decipher how extensive the power-supplies (transformers) are, but impressive.

I'm digging all these internal shots, thanks guys!
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post #108 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Onboard decode to analog out is what I'm looking for in a player.

Then this is a great player for you. As long as someone can provide some positive feedback on AQ through analog. My guess is it should sound great though.


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post #109 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 01:39 PM
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I have this player and agree with the posts above that subjectively the Audio is excellent. I must say that the video appears to surpass the Samsung BH200 which I have still... My wife and I were sitting down watching Hellboy II on BR last night and she was COMPLAINING that the picture was too good. She was distracted by the "obvious" prosthetic attachment on his head. LOL...
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post #110 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Didn't mean to sound harsh... if the video is a MAJOR improvement over the 05/51 then it's worth it. If someone's primary goal is decoding TRUEHD and DTS HD formats and pass it through via analog then I would I would buy this player myself if my prepro didn't already decode them.

I edited my reference to your post . I can clearly see the money aspect. It's got to be better on both BD's and SD-DVD, since the analog side will serve no purpose for us using HDMI.

Now if Pioneer would have included SACD/DVD-A and/or ILink, I would have gladly pre-ordered it without hesitation. Since they didn't, I have to be convinced it'll be worth the money to upgrade. The only competition at the price I'm willing to spend is the Sony & Oppo. The Denon at $4200 is out of the question. I can't justify that sum just to consolidate player capabilities.

ss9001

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post #111 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 01:50 PM
 
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At CES Chris gave me a great demo of the BDP-09FD.

At one part of the demo Chris inserted a test disc with a horizontal split screen that had the gray scale test pattern of above white. The top half displayed the disc's 24 Bit image and the bottom half displayed the processed 48 Bit up-converted image. The up-converted 48 Bit image had no banding and a much smother quality.

Chris do I explain this properly?

Also Chris invited me to a special off site event at the Venetian where they had some very special guests and an amazing BD audio demonstration. BD audio is the next audiophiles frontier!

-Robert
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post #112 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Didn't mean to sound harsh... if the video is a MAJOR improvement over the 05/51 then it's worth it. If someone's primary goal is decoding TRUEHD and DTS HD formats and pass it through via analog then I would I would buy this player myself if my prepro didn't already decode them.

For those of us that plan to bitstream, PQ is obviously of utmost importance. But there are also all those other "user experience" factors. High-end refinement, rock-solid reliability, fast loads and responsiveness, glitch-free play of any BD I throw at it, and the CI features I need. IMO, there is still no player that truly fills that bill, and if this one finally does @$2k, I don't think that's a "waste" of money even if I'll never use its analog functions.
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post #113 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsensharma View Post

I have this player and agree with the posts above that subjectively the Audio is excellent. I must say that the video appears to surpass the Samsung BH200 which I have still... My wife and I were sitting down watching Hellboy II on BR last night and she was COMPLAINING that the picture was too good. She was distracted by the "obvious" prosthetic attachment on his head. LOL...

You are using HDMI and "video appears to surpass" your other BD player for Hellboy II on a blu ray disc. What I can tell you that your Samsung never worked correctly.
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post #114 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

~

And yes, I didn't put JFK in Dolby TrueHD. I just put it in for a minute so I could get a decent pic of the Display info. If you pause it the Mpbs all drop to zero so I had to get this one with the movie playing...

that is an interesting shot joe, does that mean the pio shows separate audio and video bitrates and other encoding info. as I recall on my sony 5000es by comparison it only shows a combined bitrate and minimal audio encoding info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

For those of us that plan to bitstream, PQ is obviously of utmost importance. But there are also all those other "user experience" factors. High-end refinement, rock-solid reliability, fast loads and responsiveness, glitch-free play of any BD I throw at it, and the CI features I need. IMO, there is still no player that truly fills that bill, and if this one finally does @$2k, I don't think that's a "waste" of money even if I'll never use its analog functions.

hi prog not to drag this thread aside but for "High-end refinement, rock-solid reliability, fast loads and responsiveness, glitch-free play of any BD I throw at it, and the CI features I need" nto sure what you mean by no player currently fitting that bill. I guess some of this is subjective perceptions/impressions/preferences but the sony bdp5000es to my needs meets all of above, perhaps the pio is a step up even on that I cant say as have no expreince of it. But I woudl surely think and hope between those two players at the least you should be able to find something extremely happy with

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post #115 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

For those of us that plan to bitstream, PQ is obviously of utmost importance. But there are also all those other "user experience" factors. High-end refinement, rock-solid reliability, fast loads and responsiveness, glitch-free play of any BD I throw at it, and the CI features I need. IMO, there is still no player that truly fills that bill, and if this one finally does @$2k, I don't think that's a "waste" of money even if I'll never use its analog functions.

If there are performance improvments.. load times, good responsiveness and free of glitches then I will agree. However, you might find that on Pioneer's next player without having to spend 2k for it but we'll see.


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post #116 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 02:10 PM
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To my dismay - I found out the my 05FD blu-ray will not play DVD+R dual layer discs... Are there any updates or anything that can be done to make these work? I find it hard to believe that this $700 player will play everything but these. Please help!
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post #117 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

If there are performance improvments.. load times, good responsiveness and free of glitches then I will agree. However, you might find that on Pioneer's next player without having to spend 2k for it but we'll see.

Yeah, I know. That 23FD looks intriguing......
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post #118 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dublin25 View Post

To my dismay - I found out the my 05FD blu-ray will not play DVD+R dual layer discs... Are there any updates or anything that can be done to make these work? I find it hard to believe that this $700 player will play everything but these. Please help!

Try here.
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post #119 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Yeah, I know. That 23FD looks intriguing......

The BDP-320 even more so..


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post #120 of 8624 Old 01-25-2009, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I edited my reference to your post . I can clearly see the money aspect. It's got to be better on both BD's and SD-DVD, since the analog side will serve no purpose for us using HDMI.

Now if Pioneer would have included SACD/DVD-A and/or ILink, I would have gladly pre-ordered it without hesitation. Since they didn't, I have to be convinced it'll be worth the money to upgrade. The only competition at the price I'm willing to spend is the Sony & Oppo. The Denon at $4200 is out of the question. I can't justify that sum just to consolidate player capabilities.

ss9001

I'm with you, I can remember the dissapointment when realisation the 09 was nto to be a full universal. I guess proabably a question for chris walkamo on whether we are likely to see a developement of th 09 here to fully serve that task, not leavign behind any of the good things about this player

Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

If there are performance improvments.. load times, good responsiveness and free of glitches then I will agree. However, you might find that on Pioneer's next player without having to spend 2k for it but we'll see.

something I have been wondering about too, but maybe pio will suprise on jsut how far they can take an existing design somethign I was certainly suprised wiht the lx70a(95hd) which I jsut retired.

Quote:
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Yeah, I know. That 23FD looks intriguing......

somehow dont quite think it has the form factor to fit all the 09's goodness in. but maybe a good question for chris walkamo if we didnt need the analog side of the 09 player would the 23fd give over hdmi for audio(be it bitstreaming) and video quality jsut as well as the 09 here for both BD & DVD ?

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