Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 1260 - AVS Forum
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post #37771 of 39865 Old 04-28-2012, 02:41 PM
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^ Don't know what your specific issue might be, but I have heard several "older" AVRs not handle the large dynamic range of some more-current mixes. Sounds like that's a pretty dynamic mix. What happens is, depending on combined AVR settings, basicly you are internally "clipping" in the digital realm, which can sometimes sound just the way you're hearing it once in the analog realm. Edit: I was inferring that your analog inputs might be converted to digital in your AVR. This is not uncommon, for *all* analog inputs including the mch ones. Even if the mch ones aren't automatically digitized, other AVR settings can cause them to be. Anyway, it was just a thought, it's been a while since I've seen this and it wasn't my gear so limited "investigating".
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post #37772 of 39865 Old 04-28-2012, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

^ Don't know what your specific issue might be, but I have heard several "older" AVRs not handle the large dynamic range of some more-current mixes. Sounds like that's a pretty dynamic mix. What happens is, depending on combined AVR settings, basicly you are internally "clipping" in the digital realm, which can sometimes sound just the way you're hearing it once in the analog realm. Edit: I was inferring that your analog inputs might be converted to digital in your AVR. This is not uncommon, for *all* analog inputs including the mch ones. Even if the mch ones aren't automatically digitized, other AVR settings can cause them to be. Anyway, it was just a thought, it's been a while since I've seen this and it wasn't my gear so limited "investigating".

As far as I'm aware, my AVR uses a direct analog pass-through to the amps when set to EXT-IN, which is the multi-channel input I use -- but you might be right. Maybe my older AVR just can't handle the wide dynamic range of the lossless mix. Though, if it's the Oppo that's clipping the signal, i don't see how the AVR could remedy the issue unless it DID convert the clipping signal to digital then back to analog.

Pure conjecture here. Definitely not an expert.

I'm not planning to upgrade anytime soon, so I guess I'll just have to live with this for the time being.

Thanks for everybody's input!
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post #37773 of 39865 Old 04-28-2012, 06:11 PM
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The analog output from the Oppo on the loudest parts of the movie could be overloading your AVR and causing it to clip. One way you might check is to use the volume control on the Oppo to reduce the output level and see what happens to the spurious noises.

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post #37774 of 39865 Old 04-28-2012, 06:38 PM
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Back to 24p discussion.Contraband in DVD pushing 24p looks great and special features that shows the making of it switching between video and the film looks even better without one glitch on my Samsung 8500.

Matt
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post #37775 of 39865 Old 04-28-2012, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

The analog output from the Oppo on the loudest parts of the movie could be overloading your AVR and causing it to clip. One way you might check is to use the volume control on the Oppo to reduce the output level and see what happens to the spurious noises.

That didn't work for the Jurassic Park problem (I tried EVERYTHING!). I think it's really something to do with the mediatek problem which it seems like from what I remember discussed here, there will never be a fix for with the 83 as it's not FW related or mediatek isn't interested or concerned enough to address. One of the many reasons I personally moved on to the 95.

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post #37776 of 39865 Old 04-28-2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post

Back to 24p discussion.Contraband in DVD pushing 24p looks great and special features that shows the making of it switching between video and the film looks even better without one glitch on my Samsung 8500.

^ Do you mean changing between "film" and "video" modes in the Oppo setup? If so I will have to try that, but I have had great success (IMO) with the DVD/24 in the "auto" cadence mode . Edit, this subject lol: oh, I now think you're referring to Bob's post the other day about DVD/24 probs when different types of content are interspersed, especially common during extras...


Edit, previous subject: re the distorted analog audio, I made the suggestion I did because one guy in the discussion had a prob and one didn't, both using the 83 mch analog outputs and same BD but presumably not the same model AVR. So I looked for the problem being what was different, that I knew about...
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post #37777 of 39865 Old 04-28-2012, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by WGL View Post

Watched War Horse for the first time this evening and noticed a significant amount of distortion in the center, left and right channels from explosions and other loud sound effects during the battle scenes. I'm using the 83SE's internal processor downmixed to 5.1, then analog out to my receiver. Switching downmix modes between stereo, 5.1 and 7.1 had no effect. Neither did turning down the volume on my reciever or even the oppo itself. Massive crackling distortion on certain sound effects no matter the volume level. I'm running the latest official firmware.

I remember that a similar issue plagued the bdp-83 and Toy Story 3 when it was first released but Oppo was quick with a firmware fix.

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this?

Other Beta Testers have confirmed the distortion when the 83 is set to decode the DTS-HD MA 7.1 track in "War Horse", Blu-ray. This is presumably the DTS-HD MA 7.1 decoding bug in the older Mediatek decoder used in the 83, for which no fix has been forthcoming. The distortion will be present in Analog output and in HDMI LPCM output, but not in HDMI Bitstream output.

As you've already discovered, setting Secondary Audio ON is a workaround, as it forces the 83 to decode the Core DTS 5.1 "compatibility" track instead.

NOTE: The problem is not "clipping" in the traditional sense. Adjusting volumes won't cure it. It is a decoding error.

(The 93 and 95 do not exhibit this problem, whether or not Secondary Audio is ON.)
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post #37778 of 39865 Old 04-28-2012, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

. . . .
I also have my player set up with 1080p as my resolution, 1080p24 set to "ON" not auto, and DVD 24p conversion set to "ON". Pages 49 and 50 in the OPPO BDP 83 manual.
As you know when you put a DVD in the player you should get a black screen after a few seconds of play that says "switching to 24 HZ mode" and then the movie resumes. If you do not see this message then something is wrong as the player did not engage 24 Hz mode. If you use my trick this should repeat again.

According to the manual my player is always outputting 1080p24 and you have to have it this way in order to use the DVD 24p conversion. I also noticed if you change the output resolution to source direct using the resolution button on the remote that the DVD 24p stays on were it should be greyed out. I think if you set up the player with source direct then the DVD 24p option should be greyed out.

1080p/24 ON and AUTO do the same thing with one difference. ON will send /24 even if the device at the other end of the cable tells the HDMI handshake it can not accept /24 input. (Some display devices work just fine with /24 input, but fail to publish that properly during the HDMI handshake. Thus, the ON option.)

With both 1080p/24 ON and AUTO you will STILL get /60 output if the content you are playing is not /24.

For most folks, AUTO is the correct setting, but there's nothing wrong using ON so long as your display really does accept /24 input. If your display does not accept /24 input, but you send it /24 anyway -- either due to playing /24 content while using 1080p/24 ON, or while Source Direct output is set -- then you will get no video display.
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post #37779 of 39865 Old 04-28-2012, 10:03 PM
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Playing a Netflix BluRray which turned out to be a avc I had lots of pixelization. I turned off my avr with the oppo on and then back on. I then saw information bands above and below the picture . After that I stopped the oppo and restarted . Then all was well.

So what is going on?
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post #37780 of 39865 Old 04-28-2012, 10:40 PM
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^ No way to tell. If it is a one time event, I wouldn't worry about it -- possibly some sort of unusual HDMI handshake glitch.

Next time you power up the OPPO, go into Setup and see if your settings are as you expect them to be, as another possibility here is that something went wrong with your settings memory.
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post #37781 of 39865 Old 04-29-2012, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Other Beta Testers have confirmed the distortion when the 83 is set to decode the DTS-HD MA 7.1 track in "War Horse", Blu-ray. This is presumably the DTS-HD MA 7.1 decoding bug in the older Mediatek decoder used in the 83, for which no fix has been forthcoming. The distortion will be present in Analog output and in HDMI LPCM output, but not in HDMI Bitstream output.

As you've already discovered, setting Secondary Audio ON is a workaround, as it forces the 83 to decode the Core DTS 5.1 "compatibility" track instead.

NOTE: The problem is not "clipping" in the traditional sense. Adjusting volumes won't cure it. It is a decoding error.

(The 93 and 95 do not exhibit this problem, whether or not Secondary Audio is ON.)
--Bob

I still don't understand why I didn't have these problems with my particular equipment setup. I heard no popping or other distortion when all the big guns were firing during the battle sequences in War Horse. Does this problem involve more than just simple decoder issues but includes specific interactions with certain equipment?

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post #37782 of 39865 Old 04-30-2012, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

I still don't understand why I didn't have these problems with my particular equipment setup. I heard no popping or other distortion when all the big guns were firing during the battle sequences in War Horse. Does this problem involve more than just simple decoder issues but includes specific interactions with certain equipment?

If you are using HDMI Bitstream, or S/PDIF (Coax or Optical) audio, or have Secondary Audio ON, you will not hear the decoding problem.
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post #37783 of 39865 Old 04-30-2012, 09:20 AM
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I am using analog out to the multi-channel analog inputs on my Rotel pre-pro. Neither coax nor optical from the Oppo is being used. Secondary audio is turned off. The Rotel does by-pass all processing when using its multi-channel inputs. I did not hear any distortion on War Horse. If someone wants to give me the exact time location where they hear the distortion, I will be glad to re-listen. I would think that the distortion would have been quite obvious if it was coming through my speakers.

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post #37784 of 39865 Old 04-30-2012, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Listen to the beginning of Chapter 21. The errors should occur as long as Secondary Audio is set to OFF when you are using any of the analog outputs on the player.
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post #37785 of 39865 Old 05-01-2012, 05:01 PM
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Hello All,
Quick question about when selecting the speakers to "large" and subwoofer on using the multichannel analog outs:

Does only the LFE channel go to the sub or does all bass got to the speakers and the sub?...Thanks in advance for your reply, Pete
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post #37786 of 39865 Old 05-01-2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pete6737 View Post

Hello All,
Quick question about when selecting the speakers to "large" and subwoofer on using the multichannel analog outs:

Does only the LFE channel go to the sub or does all bass got to the speakers and the sub?...Thanks in advance for your reply, Pete

When all speakers are set to Large and the Subwoofer set to ON, only LFE goes to the Analog Subwoofer output. No portion of LFE goes to the other Analog speaker outputs, and no portion of the bass in the other speaker channels goes to the Analog Subwoofer output. Each of the other speaker channels gets all the bass present in that individual channel's content included in its output. There is no "crossover" processing or bass steering.
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post #37787 of 39865 Old 05-02-2012, 08:47 AM
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Thank you Bob!
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post #37788 of 39865 Old 05-02-2012, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

When using Analog, crossover processing is happening in the OPPO (unless you have speakers set to Large). When using HDMI, crossover processing is happening in the AVR.

The test tones built into the AVR likely bypass the crossovers or don't have significant bass content.

The energy steered to the sub from any other speaker channel is removed from the signal sent to that speaker, so it is not being output twice.

Set the Subwoofer level first, then set the other speakers to match. Then use the sub crossover bass sweep test on AIX to check that crossover processing is working well in your room. It sends a tone to LF that sweeps back and forth across the crossover frequency. The high frequency end of that comes from LF only. The low frequency end comes from Sub only due to the crossover. In between it comes partially from both. If things are set right, and the crossover frequency is well chosen for your speakers and the bass response of your room. Then the volume will remain constant across the frequency range of that sweep. This also demonstrates that Sub Phase is set correctly.
--Bob

As far as I can tell, the only crossover frequency available in the BDP-83 (SE) is 80 Hz when using analog out to Ext In in my AVR. Page 63 of the manual says that the bass crossover is fixed at 80 Hz. It is the only time that crossover is mentioned in the manual. Since my Denon AVR-2808CI does its LF processing in the digital domain, I suppose I am stuck with a fixed crossover for all channels in analog.

Audyssey set my crossovers at 40 Hz for the fronts & center and 60 for the surrounds in my AVR. The extra that I paid for the SE upgrade seems to be a waste for multichannel (especially movies for me). I guess I'll go back to HDMI for multichannel, and use analog out just for stereo music for which I use a separate preamp and amp anyway. I rarely listen to the mutichannel version on SACD's and DVD-A's.

I don't get it. This SE version is supposed to be audiophile quality in the analog stage, but it has a fixed LF crossover for multichannel. Am I missing something?
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post #37789 of 39865 Old 05-02-2012, 07:31 PM
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As far as I can tell, the only crossover frequency available in the BDP-83 (SE) is 80 Hz when using analog out to Ext In in my AVR. Page 63 of the manual says that the bass crossover is fixed at 80 Hz. It is the only time that crossover is mentioned in the manual. Since my Denon AVR-2808CI does its LF processing in the digital domain, I suppose I am stuck with a fixed crossover for all channels in analog.

Audyssey set my crossovers at 40 Hz for the fronts & center and 60 for the surrounds in my AVR. The extra that I paid for the SE upgrade seems to be a waste for multichannel (especially movies for me). I guess I'll go back to HDMI for multichannel, and use analog out just for stereo music for which I use a separate preamp and amp anyway. I rarely listen to the mutichannel version on SACD's and DVD-A's.

I don't get it. This SE version is supposed to be audiophile quality in the analog stage, but it has a fixed LF crossover for multichannel. Am I missing something?

No, you are correct. Adjustable crossover frequency was a feature added to the OPPO 93 and 95.

If 80hz crossover processing doesn't work for you then you'll need to use digital audio from your 83se, or do crossover processing external to the player for Analog audio, or upgrade to the newer player.
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post #37790 of 39865 Old 05-02-2012, 07:45 PM
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When using Analogy out from Oppo BDP-83, set all speaker to large and subwover ON, then set your cross over at your AV processor to match with your speakers. This is the method I use with my Oppo BDP-83 and Outlaw AV Processor 990.
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post #37791 of 39865 Old 05-02-2012, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

No, you are correct. Adjustable crossover frequency was a feature added to the OPPO 93 and 95.

If 80hz crossover processing doesn't work for you then you'll need to use digital audio from your 83se, or do crossover processing external to the player for Analog audio, or upgrade to the newer player.
--Bob

So why did OPPO go to the expense of adding the 8-channel Sabre Premier (ES9006) DAC chip for the SE's 7.1 multi-channel output? It doesn't make sense. Also, this just proves that many of these so-called reviewers are not using the player in a multichannel setup. I failed to read anything about this before I paid the $299 for the SE upgrade.
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post #37792 of 39865 Old 05-02-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kwok lau View Post

When using Analogy out from Oppo BDP-83, set all speaker to large and subwover ON, then set your cross over at your AV processor to match with your speakers. This is the method I use with my Oppo BDP-83 and Outlaw AV Processor 990.

You need to read other posts. My AVR does LFE processing in DIGITAL domain ONLY.
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post #37793 of 39865 Old 05-02-2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bconde View Post


So why did OPPO go to the expense of adding the 8-channel Sabre Premier (ES9006) DAC chip for the SE's 7.1 multi-channel output? It doesn't make sense. Also, this just proves that many of these so-called reviewers are not using the player in a multichannel setup. I failed to read anything about this before I paid the $299 for the SE upgrade.

We are not very good at "why?" questions here.

Have you actually tried it with the fixed 80hz crossover? The crossover choices made by Audyssey may very well *NOT* be best for an Analog setup that doesn't also include the adjustments made at the same time by its Room Correction algorithm.

Of course you will likely also hear the effect of those Room Correction adjustments (something the player also can't do) in addition to the underlying crossover differences. It won't be easy to separate the two effects.
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post #37794 of 39865 Old 05-02-2012, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

When all speakers are set to Large and the Subwoofer set to ON, only LFE goes to the Analog Subwoofer output. No portion of LFE goes to the other Analog speaker outputs, and no portion of the bass in the other speaker channels goes to the Analog Subwoofer output. Each of the other speaker channels gets all the bass present in that individual channel's content included in its output. There is no "crossover" processing or bass steering.
--Bob

how about when all speakers are set to small? does the subwoofer get only the signal below 80Hz or a full signal? am asking cause i need to know if the subwoofer crossover needs to be used to cut off frequencies above 80Hz or accept the full signal with crossover disabled/turned all the way upto 200Hz
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post #37795 of 39865 Old 05-03-2012, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by manoharshetty9 View Post

how about when all speakers are set to small? does the subwoofer get only the signal below 80Hz or a full signal? am asking cause i need to know if the subwoofer crossover needs to be used to cut off frequencies above 80Hz or accept the full signal with crossover disabled/turned all the way upto 200Hz

When any speakers are Small, and the Subwoofer ON, the Subwoofer gets the full frequency range of the LFE content. (The .1 of 5.1 or 7.1 audio. LFE is essentially gone by 120Hz with almost all of its content below 100Hz.) The Subwoofer ALSO gets bass steered from those speakers that are set to Small in accordance with the 80Hz crossover. The bass that is steered from Small speakers to the subwoofer is removed from the content sent to those Small speakers (i.e., it isn't sent to both). Frequencies which are played in the Small speakers (i.e., above the Crossover) are NOT sent to the subwoofer.

Keep in mind that the Crossover rolls into effect over about an octave (factor of 2 in frequency) so there is a transition region of frequencies where both the sub and any given Small speaker are each playing a portion of that bass frequency for the bass being steered to the sub from that Small speaker. At the beginning of the Crossover, all the output is from the Small speaker, by about an octave lower all the output for that channel is from the Subwoofer. In between, both the Small speaker and the subwoofer each play a portion of the frequency. This is why, for example, it is important that your Subwoofer be set in proper Phase with the main speakers -- so that you don't get cancellation for frequencies where they are both playing the same bass at the same time through the crossover region.

Any speakers that are set to Large get the full frequency range of their content -- none of their bass is steered to the Subwoofer even though other speakers are set to Small.

The general Rule of Thumb is to only do crossover processing in one place at a time. For your question that means that no, you don't have to engage the 80hz crossover built into your sub as well. Either disable the sub's own, internal crossover, or set it to the highest frequency to get it out of the way as much as possible whenever you are using Small speaker settings in the OPPO to engage the OPPO's own crossover processing for bass management.

All of the above only applies to the OPPO's multi-channel Analog outputs. The Crossover and Speaker Small/Large settings have no effect on HDMI audio output for example. (For HDMI audio, make such settings in your AVR instead.)
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post #37796 of 39865 Old 05-03-2012, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

When any speakers are Small, and the Subwoofer ON, the Subwoofer gets the full frequency range of the LFE content. (The .1 of 5.1 or 7.1 audio. LFE is essentially gone by 120Hz with almost all of its content below 100Hz.) The Subwoofer ALSO gets bass steered from those speakers that are set to Small in accordance with the 80Hz crossover. The bass that is steered from Small speakers to the subwoofer is removed from the content sent to those Small speakers (i.e., it isn't sent to both). Frequencies which are played in the Small speakers (i.e., above the Crossover) are NOT sent to the subwoofer.

Keep in mind that the Crossover rolls into effect over about an octave (factor of 2 in frequency) so there is a transition region of frequencies where both the sub and any given Small speaker are each playing a portion of that bass frequency for the bass being steered to the sub from that Small speaker. At the beginning of the Crossover, all the output is from the Small speaker, by about an octave lower all the output for that channel is from the Subwoofer. In between, both the Small speaker and the subwoofer each play a portion of the frequency. This is why, for example, it is important that your Subwoofer be set in proper Phase with the main speakers -- so that you don't get cancellation for frequencies where they are both playing the same bass at the same time through the crossover region.

Any speakers that are set to Large get the full frequency range of their content -- none of their bass is steered to the Subwoofer even though other speakers are set to Small.

The general Rule of Thumb is to only do crossover processing in one place at a time. For your question that means that no, you don't have to engage the 80hz crossover built into your sub as well. Either disable the sub's own, internal crossover, or set it to the highest frequency to get it out of the way as much as possible whenever you are using Small speaker settings in the OPPO to engage the OPPO's own crossover processing for bass management.

All of the above only applies to the OPPO's multi-channel Analog outputs. The Crossover and Speaker Small/Large settings have no effect on HDMI audio output for example. (For HDMI audio, make such settings in your AVR instead.)
--Bob

thanks Bob.
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post #37797 of 39865 Old 05-03-2012, 07:08 AM
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best place to sell my 83 se?
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post #37798 of 39865 Old 05-03-2012, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

best place to sell my 83 se?

AVS Classifieds, ebay, and Audiogon are probably your best bets.
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post #37799 of 39865 Old 05-03-2012, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

We are not very good at "why?" questions here.

Have you actually tried it with the fixed 80hz crossover? The crossover choices made by Audyssey may very well *NOT* be best for an Analog setup that doesn't also include the adjustments made at the same time by its Room Correction algorithm.

Of course you will likely also hear the effect of those Room Correction adjustments (something the player also can't do) in addition to the underlying crossover differences. It won't be easy to separate the two effects.
--Bob

I don't mean to be smart, but who are the "we" you are referring to?

My question in my previous post was rhetorical. If I wanted to know the answer, I would have called OPPO.

Fortunately batpig on the Denon owners' thread for my AVR helped me figure out a solution by posting:

"FYI - when using EXT IN there is NO digital processing whatsoever. The signal remains in the analog domain and passes through straight to the amps. So that means no Audyssey, no tone control, no bass management etc. So essentially you have to use the player as the "processor".

"AFAIK the receiver still applies delays (distance) and channel level adjustments since those are done after the DAC's (but before the amp stage) but you should confirm this by using a disc with test tones. But you will have to configure bass management (crossover) and other settings in the player."

I have an Outlaw Audio ICBM-1 sitting in my storage closet that I used before I purchased my first Denon AVR. It does bass management for analog signals. I now have it installed I am using the recommended crossover points mentioned in the ICBM manual. I am not going to try EQ manually at this time. Most of my music listening (including SACD's and DVD-A's) is done in stereo anyway using a separate preamp and amp. So I'll give this setup a shot for movies, mostly. If it is not satisfatory, I can easily go back to my HDMI/Audyssey setup which was more than adequate.
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post #37800 of 39865 Old 05-03-2012, 05:08 PM
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Bconde, sorry I missed your point that your AV processor only provide frequency cross-over adjustment at digital domain.
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