Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 1273 - AVS Forum
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post #38161 of 39352 Old 10-20-2012, 08:31 AM
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Last night, I got out my BD of "Toy Story 3" (great movie BTW) and it has both DTS MA7.1 and DTS ES6.1 soundtracks and the menu gives you the choice of either, so i picked the 6.1ES track and it played back fine thru the coax digital out with my receiver doing the actual decoding. I should have checked my analog outs from the player to see if this track was internally decoded as well, but at least the Oppo passed the 6.1 track thru. This disc also has a "THX Optimizer-like" section which, among other video test patterns, allows you to do a "round-robin" audio test with pink noise to check channel balance and assignment. All levels" by ear" appeared to be close, although I noticed during the movie that all the surround channels were somewhat low. Tonight I'll check the analog outs from the 83 thru my receiver to see if the Oppo decodes 6.1. I'll bet it does.

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post #38162 of 39352 Old 10-20-2012, 08:35 AM
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The BDP-83 cannot decode ES/EX tracks, it will output them as 5.1 regardless of the output connection. They are, in fact, 5.1 streams. The player will simply ignore the ES/EX decoding flags.
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post #38163 of 39352 Old 10-20-2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

You have to lift the rear of the top plate to a 45 degree angle and then you can get it off.

Ok thanks I didnt try lifting at that angle yet - was concerned it may bend the front accidentaly.
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post #38164 of 39352 Old 10-20-2012, 06:34 PM
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I got my repair done earlier today.


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post #38165 of 39352 Old 10-21-2012, 07:52 AM
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"Some of these discs use DTS-HD Master ES or Dolby Digital TrueHD EX matrixing. This means that the soundtrack is actually 5.1 discrete with ES or EX extensions to add the Surround Back channels. This is why the player's OSD is only displaying Dolby Digital TrueHD 5.1 as the player can't distinguish between dedicated channels and the possible ES or EX extensions.

As long as the player is set to Secondary Audio of OFF and HDMI Audio as Bit Stream, and the receiver is reporting Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD Master, then the receiver is getting the full 7.1 channels from the soundtrack.

Best Regards,

Customer Service"

I do get sound in the rears, I just have to boost the db levels to make them more audible.
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post #38166 of 39352 Old 10-21-2012, 08:34 AM
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The sound in the rears is probably just duplicating the surround channels.

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post #38167 of 39352 Old 10-21-2012, 12:14 PM
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Actually, as I understand it, ES and EX are matrixed from the L & R surround channels; however, the rear channel can also be discrete if the sound mixer so chooses, for instance for placement of a special effect behind the viewer. Also, none of the specs on any of the Oppo players seem to mention EX and ES matrixing, so apparently it's passed thru either the HDMI or the coax digital out depending on the audio format being used and then being decoded in the receiver and NOT (as I found out) in the player.

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post #38168 of 39352 Old 10-21-2012, 12:27 PM
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^ They are decoded in the new, OPPO 103 player.
--Bob
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post #38169 of 39352 Old 10-21-2012, 12:32 PM
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Bob: I looked in the specs of the 103 and didn't see any mention of this. Did I miss something? And, are you saying that ES and EX are decoded by the player and not just being passed thru in the bitstream?
I'm slightly confuzed on this.

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post #38170 of 39352 Old 10-21-2012, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Moore View Post

Bob: I looked in the specs of the 103 and didn't see any mention of this. Did I miss something? And, are you saying that ES and EX are decoded by the player and not just being passed thru in the bitstream?
I'm slightly confuzed on this.

They are both decoded and passed through. The decoding (for Analog output or for HDMI LPCM output) is what's new.
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post #38171 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 05:03 AM
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Had a problem last night playing TinTin. First 2 times the player tried to play the disc it said loading for a long time then said can't read disc and tray opened. Third time after I had shaken the disc in the loader, it loaded normally and played. Disc had only been played once before and with no problems loading. Near the end of the movie the player froze twice for about 10-15 seconds before starting again. Don't remember that happening before. Several weeks ago playing the S&M disc the player seemed to get confused when backing out of a test pattern and would stop completely. Had to open tray and reload to resume. Putting new batteries in remote seemed to fix that. TinTin disc appears to be in excellent condition. Any ideas on cause of problem? Thanks
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post #38172 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 06:06 AM
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My Son lives in London and wants to send me this BBC series... can I play this on my 83? Here is the warning: "Please note that this product will not play on US spec 60i Blu-ray players as the Blu-ray discs are authored to UK 50i specs"

TIA...smile.gif
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post #38173 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

My Son lives in London and wants to send me this BBC series... can I play this on my 83? Here is the warning: "Please note that this product will not play on US spec 60i Blu-ray players as the Blu-ray discs are authored to UK 50i specs"

TIA...smile.gif

You should be OK. There are two considerations:

Frame rate: all the OPPO BR players accept 1080i50 sources.

Region coding: all the BBC imports I have seen so far have been region-free.

-Bill
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post #38174 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

My Son lives in London and wants to send me this BBC series... can I play this on my 83? Here is the warning: "Please note that this product will not play on US spec 60i Blu-ray players as the Blu-ray discs are authored to UK 50i specs"

TIA...smile.gif

As even further evidence, I forgot that my SHERLOCK season 2 BR set was bought at Amazon UK last February. No problems!

-Bill
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post #38175 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 06:52 AM
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AWESOME....Thanks Bill!
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post #38176 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Whenever you use the Analog outputs of the player, the player must be doing the decoding. So any processor limitations on the decoding will impact the Analog outputs as well.
I believe the new 103/105 players are the first to lift this particular restriction.
--Bob

Bob are you saying you MUST bitstream with the 83 in order to decode rear channel info correctly in a 7.1 setup??

Also does anyone happen to know if the Onkyo TX-SR 876 AVR will decode 7.1 properly.? When I play a 7.1 movie all 7 speaker lights do light up on the front panel of the 876? When playing a 7.1 disc I definitely get signal/sound from my 2 rear speakers (Speakers 6 and 7) but I don't know if I am gettting the correct sound/signal on these 2 speakers? Could someone send me a 7.1 title name disc with the chaper number and time on when I should receive a signal (and a description of what that signal is suppose to be, ie. gun shot, exposion, car wreck, etc.) on speakers 6 and 7. Thanks so much for you great help and advise as usual. Hope everyone has a wonderful day.

Lastly, is it worth the money to upgrade to the 103 vs. the 83 in terms of better quality sound and picture and faster load times?

Thank you.

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post #38177 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 07:09 AM
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True discrete 7.1 discs will be fine. It is the ES and EX 6.1 discs that have the single rear channel (which will just be duplicated if you have two rear speakers) matrixed that would requiring streaming to an AVR or processor that can handle those formats. The problem is that you need specific decoding capabilities to recover the matrixed rear channel and the Oppo 8X and 9X on-board decoders don't have those abilities. Apparently, the 103 and 105 have thus decoding.

Fortunately, there are not a lot of ES or EX discs out there.

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post #38178 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golffnutt View Post

Bob are you saying you MUST bitstream with the 83 in order to decode rear channel info correctly in a 7.1 setup??
Also does anyone happen to know if the Onkyo TX-SR 876 AVR will decode 7.1 properly.? When I play a 7.1 movie all 7 speaker lights do light up on the front panel of the 876? When playing a 7.1 disc I definitely get signal/sound from my 2 rear speakers (Speakers 6 and 7) but I don't know if I am gettting the correct sound/signal on these 2 speakers? Could someone send me a 7.1 title name disc with the chaper number and time on when I should receive a signal (and a description of what that signal is suppose to be, ie. gun shot, exposion, car wreck, etc.) on speakers 6 and 7. Thanks so much for you great help and advise as usual. Hope everyone has a wonderful day.
Lastly, is it worth the money to upgrade to the 103 vs. the 83 in terms of better quality sound and picture and faster load times?

If you are bitstreaming to your Onkyo 876, you are good to go! You will be getting all the correct sound information.
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post #38179 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golffnutt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Whenever you use the Analog outputs of the player, the player must be doing the decoding. So any processor limitations on the decoding will impact the Analog outputs as well.
I believe the new 103/105 players are the first to lift this particular restriction.
--Bob

Bob are you saying you MUST bitstream with the 83 in order to decode rear channel info correctly in a 7.1 setup??

Also does anyone happen to know if the Onkyo TX-SR 876 AVR will decode 7.1 properly.? When I play a 7.1 movie all 7 speaker lights do light up on the front panel of the 876? When playing a 7.1 disc I definitely get signal/sound from my 2 rear speakers (Speakers 6 and 7) but I don't know if I am gettting the correct sound/signal on these 2 speakers? Could someone send me a 7.1 title name disc with the chaper number and time on when I should receive a signal (and a description of what that signal is suppose to be, ie. gun shot, exposion, car wreck, etc.) on speakers 6 and 7. Thanks so much for you great help and advise as usual. Hope everyone has a wonderful day.

Lastly, is it worth the money to upgrade to the 103 vs. the 83 in terms of better quality sound and picture and faster load times?

No, the 83 decodes "normal" 7.1 TrueHD and DTS-HD MA tracks just fine. It is the "fake" tracks which are really 5.1 with extra info embedded regarding how to steer sound to Rear speakers (DTS ES and Dolby EX) tracks that the 83 does not decode.

If the 83 is producing 7.1 LPCM output then you are good to go (assuming your AVR can accept 7.1 in the first place). If it is producing 5.1 LPCM output when you think it should have seen the track as 6.1 or 7.1, then try Bitstream output instead.

Personally, I think the upgrade from the 83 to the 103 is a no-brainer, if you can afford to do it. The 103 is better in lots of ways. I could see people being on the fence if they have a 93 (although personally I think that upgrade is worth it, too). But any 83 owner given a chance to use the 103 will likely snarl and bare teeth at anyone foolish enough to try to take it away.
--Bob

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post #38180 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 10:53 AM
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I think the original Blu ray release of Wall E is 6.1. I am not sure if I last played it on my 83 or the LG BH200 but my receiver decoded the audio correctly. I am always set up for bitstreaming.

"You lose it in here you're in a world of hurt"
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post #38181 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

No, the 83 decodes "normal" 7.1 TrueHD and DTS-HD MA tracks just fine. It is the "fake" tracks which are really 5.1 with extra info embedded regarding how to steer sound to Rear speakers (DTS ES and Dolby EX) tracks that the 83 does not decode.
If the 83 is producing 7.1 LPCM output then you are good to go (assuming your AVR can accept 7.1 in the first place). If it is producing 5.1 LPCM output when you think it should have seen the track as 6.1 or 7.1, then try Bitstream output instead.
Personally, I think the upgrade from the 83 to the 103 is a no-brainer, if you can afford to do it. The 103 is better in lots of ways. I could see people being on the fence if they have a 93 (although personally I think that upgrade is worth it, too). But any 83 owner given a chance to use the 103 will likely snarl and bare teeth at anyone foolish enough to try to take it away.
--Bob

There seems to be two similar issues here; one with 7.1 tracks being encoded with DTS ES and/or Dolby EX, and one where there is a secondary audio channel present that is encoded with DD+. I posted about the latter issue a while back (see here), which seems primarily to affect DreamWorks 7.1 releases. In either case, using bitstream output instead of LPCM should fix the issue. Upgrading to the 93 eliminated the problem for me.
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post #38182 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 01:08 PM
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^ Yes, that is a separate issue. Secondary Audio is normally nothing fancy -- it's just Commentary and Menu button sounds. One studio decided for no particularly good reason to put a higher bit rate track on some discs for Secondary Audio. The Blu-ray specs (for BD-Java support) require the player to set up to decode the Secondary Audio EVEN IF YOU (THE USER) THINK YOU AREN'T USING IT! And the 83 does not have horse power to decode a high bit rate Secondary Audio track in parallel with a DTS-HD MA track. Even if you had set Secondary Audio OFF -- due to the BD-Java nonsense. If you send Bitstream output, the AVR doesn't see the Secondary Audio, so no issue. The newer OPPO players have more powerful decoders, so they don't get tripped up by this.

There really is no good reason for this studio to do what they did. That's the problem with Blu-ray now (as was the case in the first few years of SD-DVD). If you ALLOW something in the spec, some stupid studio programmer won't be able to resist using it. Boys and their toys and all that.
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post #38183 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Had a problem last night playing TinTin. First 2 times the player tried to play the disc it said loading for a long time then said can't read disc and tray opened. Third time after I had shaken the disc in the loader, it loaded normally and played. Disc had only been played once before and with no problems loading. Near the end of the movie the player froze twice for about 10-15 seconds before starting again. Don't remember that happening before. Several weeks ago playing the S&M disc the player seemed to get confused when backing out of a test pattern and would stop completely. Had to open tray and reload to resume. Putting new batteries in remote seemed to fix that. TinTin disc appears to be in excellent condition. Any ideas on cause of problem? Thanks

I may have answered my own question. Cleaned BD and DVD read heads with Q tip dipped in rubbing alcohol. TinTin played perfectly.
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post #38184 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by deano86 View Post

If you are bitstreaming to your Onkyo 876, you are good to go! You will be getting all the correct sound information.

Thanks deano86, really appreciate the comments and reply.

Thank you.

Golffnutt

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post #38185 of 39352 Old 10-22-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

No, the 83 decodes "normal" 7.1 TrueHD and DTS-HD MA tracks just fine. It is the "fake" tracks which are really 5.1 with extra info embedded regarding how to steer sound to Rear speakers (DTS ES and Dolby EX) tracks that the 83 does not decode.
If the 83 is producing 7.1 LPCM output then you are good to go (assuming your AVR can accept 7.1 in the first place). If it is producing 5.1 LPCM output when you think it should have seen the track as 6.1 or 7.1, then try Bitstream output instead.
Personally, I think the upgrade from the 83 to the 103 is a no-brainer, if you can afford to do it. The 103 is better in lots of ways. I could see people being on the fence if they have a 93 (although personally I think that upgrade is worth it, too). But any 83 owner given a chance to use the 103 will likely snarl and bare teeth at anyone foolish enough to try to take it away.
--Bob

Thanks Bob, really appreciate the info and knowledge you shared with me. Thank you also for taking the time to help all of us Oppo as you do on a daily basis, I realy do appreciate it.

golffnutt

Thank you.

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post #38186 of 39352 Old 10-23-2012, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Sango View Post

I got my repair done earlier today.


Great stuff

I too, have received a replacement loader kit after my trusted 83 refused to eject the tray. I just received it and haven't installed the kit yet. Hope everything works as it should for you.

Must say, still very impressive that Oppo sends a loader all the way to Sweden free of charge. Player is from 2009... Great customer service for a great player! Reminds me of the old Tag Mclaren days (I have a AVDP32R which is perfect for analog 5.1 and bitstreaming from the Oppo).

Cheers

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post #38187 of 39352 Old 10-23-2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

But any 83 owner given a chance to use the 103 will likely snarl and bare teeth at anyone foolish enough to try to take it away.--Bob

Well...that is good enough for me.smile.gif

I just registered for the 103 over at Oppo...
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post #38188 of 39352 Old 10-24-2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

No, the 83 decodes "normal" 7.1 TrueHD and DTS-HD MA tracks just fine. It is the "fake" tracks which are really 5.1 with extra info embedded regarding how to steer sound to Rear speakers (DTS ES and Dolby EX) tracks that the 83 does not decode.
If the 83 is producing 7.1 LPCM output then you are good to go (assuming your AVR can accept 7.1 in the first place). If it is producing 5.1 LPCM output when you think it should have seen the track as 6.1 or 7.1, then try Bitstream output instead.
Personally, I think the upgrade from the 83 to the 103 is a no-brainer, if you can afford to do it. The 103 is better in lots of ways. I could see people being on the fence if they have a 93 (although personally I think that upgrade is worth it, too). But any 83 owner given a chance to use the 103 will likely snarl and bare teeth at anyone foolish enough to try to take it away.
--Bob

Aren't the blu-rays in question TrueHD or DTS-HD MA? I don't think we are talking about DVDs here. In which cases EX and ES don't apply to the lossless formats, they are only present for lossy (core DTS) decoders. Even the Anthem D2v doesn't recognize those flags when fed lossless tracks.

I think the problem is something else entirely, perhaps unique to Madagascar 3.

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post #38189 of 39352 Old 10-24-2012, 04:11 PM
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That's just the thing. They HAVE figured out how to get this ES/EX fahrvergnugen into the "lossless" Bitstreams.
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post #38190 of 39352 Old 10-24-2012, 08:34 PM
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So that would make 6.1 at best, how are they getting 7.1 at the receiver before engaging any extra processing?

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