Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 1361 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #40801 of 40828 Old 01-31-2016, 05:55 PM
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Thanks to all.

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post #40802 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Im watching a film and I stop the dvd and take it out of the 83.Later when I want to resume watching it I put it back in the 83 and it resumes play from the spot I stopped the dvd at but without sound.I have to stop the playback and open the tray and then close it and dvd will play fine with sound from the same spot.This doesnt happen every time but enough to make me wonder what is going on.
I have a vaguely similar issue with my Oppo 93 and only because I use that player far more than the 83: if I use the tray eject button to turn on and then insert a Bluray and start playing immediately, the Oppo has not quite finished booting up and sometimes gets confused and locks up or otherwise distorts playback, however if I power it on and wait until it has stabilised before inserting the disc, then it works okay every time.

Maybe you aren't waiting long enough for the 83 to finish its booting routine before asking it to start playing

I have also noticed that the more facilities that are set to fixed values and not Auto, the more stable my playback chain is, since every auto feature requires a number of handshakes to determine settings and it is easy for the HDMI chain to become overloaded with handshakes all over the place from each device.

I usually turn on the TV first, let it stabilise, then AVR and let it stabilise, then finally the Oppo and let it stabilise before inserting a disc. I usually have no problems this way.

How are you sending audio to the AVR: via bitstream or LPCM? AVR can be very finicky about receiving bitstreams partway through or with interruptions. Just as with the TrueHD issues with complex seamless branching in my Oppo 93, I normally decode all sources to LPCM in the Oppo and don't have issues of that nature: perhaps it is similar for DD or DTS with DVD. If you aren't sending LPCM to the AVR, give it a try and see if it helps.
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post #40803 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 05:21 AM
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Thanks, I will try the settings change and sending LPCM to the AVR.Ive tried all suggestions on the post so far and still have the issue.Its only from a resume playback from a specific point after dvd put back on oppo so its not a huge problem.
If I send LPCM to AVR instead of bitstream wont I end compromising my sound quality,especially on more advanced sound options on Blu ray discs?

Matt

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post #40804 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by IanD View Post
I have a vaguely similar issue with my Oppo 93 and only because I use that player far more than the 83: if I use the tray eject button to turn on and then insert a Bluray and start playing immediately, the Oppo has not quite finished booting up and sometimes gets confused and locks up or otherwise distorts playback, however if I power it on and wait until it has stabilised before inserting the disc, then it works okay every time.

Maybe you aren't waiting long enough for the 83 to finish its booting routine before asking it to start playing

I have also noticed that the more facilities that are set to fixed values and not Auto, the more stable my playback chain is, since every auto feature requires a number of handshakes to determine settings and it is easy for the HDMI chain to become overloaded with handshakes all over the place from each device.

I usually turn on the TV first, let it stabilise, then AVR and let it stabilise, then finally the Oppo and let it stabilise before inserting a disc. I usually have no problems this way.

How are you sending audio to the AVR: via bitstream or LPCM? AVR can be very finicky about receiving bitstreams partway through or with interruptions. Just as with the TrueHD issues with complex seamless branching in my Oppo 93, I normally decode all sources to LPCM in the Oppo and don't have issues of that nature: perhaps it is similar for DD or DTS with DVD. If you aren't sending LPCM to the AVR, give it a try and see if it helps.

As usual, I agree with just about everything Ian said here, especially the sequencing chain -- that is, turning on the TV, letting it stabilize and switch to the right input for the BD player, then turning on the receiver and finally turning on the BDP-83 and letting it get to the main screen (with the Oppo logo and the Blu-ray Disc logo) before pressing eject to insert a disc.

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post #40805 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Thanks, I will try the settings change and sending LPCM to the AVR.Ive tried all suggestions on the post so far and still have the issue.Its only from a resume playback from a specific point after dvd put back on oppo so its not a huge problem.
If I send LPCM to AVR instead of bitstream wont I end compromising my sound quality,especially on more advanced sound options on Blu ray discs?

As far as I know, I don't think you will be "compromising sound quality" with regard to Blu-rays by sending LPCM signals over HDMI; in fact, doing it this way will allow you to hear certain audio protocols baked into certain disc menus, such as the "beeps" and "clicks" when selecting options. That being said, I have always been a fan of total bitstreaming from source to AVR, whether it was over digital coaxial/optical in the DVD player days or over HDMI from a Blu-ray player; I don't know what it is, but I prefer my AVR handle the decoding of the signals and all the processing. Don't look too far into this phenomenon, however, because it's been discussed on enthusiast sites like this one beyond ad nauseum -- and normally spirals downward into a massive battle between those who swear there's no difference in sound/performance when letting a player decode the signals and allowing an AVR or processor to do it.
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post #40806 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 04:26 PM
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^ In the 83 (unlike the newer OPPO players) you should leave Secondary Audio set to OFF *EVEN IF* you are using LPCM output. Turn Secondary Audio ON only if you really need to hear it -- e.g., when listening to certain picture in picture style Commentary tracks that use it.

Leaving Secondary Audio ON so that you can hear Menu Sound Effects on some Blu-ray discs will result in reduced audio quality for the movie audio, even if you have *NOT* selected a disc option that uses Secondary Audio during the movie playback. The Blu-ray certification specs require Secondary Audio processing to be engaged if the disc includes Secondary Audio content, even if it that content is not currently selected for playback. And in the 83, engaging Secondary Audio means the lossy "compatibility" track is what gets used for the feature audio. Not the lossless track you thought you were using.

The newer players are different in this regard. For the 9x and 10x players, you can safely leave Secondary Audio ON continuously if you are using LPCM output.

If you are using BITSTREAM output, even on those newer players, you should still leave Secondary Audio OFF, except when you really need to hear it. That's because the player has to re-encode the audio back into a Bitstream for output after Secondary Audio mixing happens. And the RE-encode back into a Bitstream results in a lossy Bitstream.
--Bob
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post #40807 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ In the 83 (unlike the newer OPPO players) you should leave Secondary Audio set to OFF *EVEN IF* you are using LPCM output. Turn Secondary Audio ON only if you really need to hear it -- e.g., when listening to certain picture in picture style Commentary tracks that use it.

Leaving Secondary Audio ON so that you can hear Menu Sound Effects on some Blu-ray discs will result in reduced audio quality for the movie audio, even if you have *NOT* selected a disc option that uses Secondary Audio during the movie playback. The Blu-ray certification specs require Secondary Audio processing to be engaged if the disc includes Secondary Audio content, even if it that content is not currently selected for playback. And in the 83, engaging Secondary Audio means the lossy "compatibility" track is what gets used for the feature audio. Not the lossless track you thought you were using.

The newer players are different in this regard. For the 9x and 10x players, you can safely leave Secondary Audio ON continuously if you are using LPCM output.

If you are using BITSTREAM output, even on those newer players, you should still leave Secondary Audio OFF, except when you really need to hear it. That's because the player has to re-encode the audio back into a Bitstream for output after Secondary Audio mixing happens. And the RE-encode back into a Bitstream results in a lossy Bitstream.
--Bob

Thanks for the info, Bob; I was not aware of this on the BDP-83 -- though, I never really had a desire to "access" elements such as the clicks and beeps promised by selecting SECONDARY AUDIO: ON...but this information will be useful for many other members.

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post #40808 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 06:27 PM
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As far as I know, I don't think you will be "compromising sound quality" with regard to Blu-rays by sending LPCM signals over HDMI; in fact, doing it this way will allow you to hear certain audio protocols baked into certain disc menus, such as the "beeps" and "clicks" when selecting options. That being said, I have always been a fan of total bitstreaming from source to AVR, whether it was over digital coaxial/optical in the DVD player days or over HDMI from a Blu-ray player; I don't know what it is, but I prefer my AVR handle the decoding of the signals and all the processing. Don't look too far into this phenomenon, however, because it's been discussed on enthusiast sites like this one beyond ad nauseum -- and normally spirals downward into a massive battle between those who swear there's no difference in sound/performance when letting a player decode the signals and allowing an AVR or processor to do it.
I guess Ive always been confused between bitstream and LPCM thinking unless I used bitstream I would not be able to get DTS or HD DTS to play through my AVR if my blu ray player was set to LPCM and I would only get two track PCM.

Matt
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post #40809 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
I guess Ive always been confused between bitstream and LPCM thinking unless I used bitstream I would not be able to get DTS or HD DTS to play through my AVR if my blu ray player was set to LPCM and I would only get two track PCM.
The first thing you AVR does when sent a Bitstream is decode it to LPCM. Bitstream digital audio can not be converted to Analog audio (voltages on a cable) -- which is what your speakers need -- without first being decoded into LPCM.

The masters used by the studios are LPCM.

Bitstreams are used because they are a more compact way of getting the master onto the disc. It's a form of "compression". It takes up less space on the disc and, even more important, doesn't need as high a data rate to read off the disc.

Your TV may only accept Stereo LPCM (since it only has stereo speakers), but any modern AVR that handles HDMI audio input is *MORE* likely to be able to accept, and properly handle, multi-channel, high-bit rate LPCM than the Bitstream that results when that LPCM gets packed up by the encoder used in the studio.

A "lossless" Bitstream -- Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA as found on Blu-ray discs -- is "lossless" in the sense that decoding it into LPCM results in the SAME LPCM -- bit for bit -- as the LPCM master the studio sent into the encoder when making the disc.
--Bob
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post #40810 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
I guess Ive always been confused between bitstream and LPCM thinking unless I used bitstream I would not be able to get DTS or HD DTS to play through my AVR if my blu ray player was set to LPCM and I would only get two track PCM.

With the advent of advanced versions of HDMI, multichannel LPCM audio was able to be passed from a source (BD player) to a processor/AVR (prior to HDMI, you'd have to use multichannel individual analog cables). With HDMI, bitstream signals from ALL formats -- DVD and Blu-ray and their Dolby Digital/DTS/TrueHD/Master Audio codecs -- can be passed, or you can have the player do the decoding and then pass the multichannel LPCM signal over HDMI (or via the aforementioned analog cables, if that's what you're using).


Either way, it's no longer a matter of "just" two-track LPCM being able to be passed.
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post #40811 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
The first thing you AVR does when sent a Bitstream is decode it to LPCM. Bitstream digital audio can not be converted to Analog audio (voltages on a cable) -- which is what your speakers need -- without first being decoded into LPCM.

The masters used by the studios are LPCM.

Bitstreams are used because they are a more compact way of getting the master onto the disc. It's a form of "compression". It takes up less space on the disc and, even more important, doesn't need as high a data rate to read off the disc.

Your TV may only accept Stereo LPCM (since it only has stereo speakers), but any modern AVR that handles HDMI audio input is *MORE* likely to be able to accept, and properly handle, multi-channel, high-bit rate LPCM than the Bitstream that results when that LPCM gets packed up by the encoder used in the studio.

A "lossless" Bitstream -- Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA as found on Blu-ray discs -- is "lossless" in the sense that decoding it into LPCM results in the SAME LPCM -- bit for bit -- as the LPCM master the studio sent into the encoder when making the disc.
--Bob

...and just to add to Bob's last statement here...as compared to "LOSSY" bitstream (i.e. Dolby Digital and DTS from the DVD format), which is said to "throw away" some information (in other words, not "bit for bit" as Bob explained happens with the "lossless")...


Confused enough, Matt?

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post #40812 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ In the 83 (unlike the newer OPPO players) you should leave Secondary Audio set to OFF *EVEN IF* you are using LPCM output. Turn Secondary Audio ON only if you really need to hear it -- e.g., when listening to certain picture in picture style Commentary tracks that use it.

Leaving Secondary Audio ON so that you can hear Menu Sound Effects on some Blu-ray discs will result in reduced audio quality for the movie audio, even if you have *NOT* selected a disc option that uses Secondary Audio during the movie playback. The Blu-ray certification specs require Secondary Audio processing to be engaged if the disc includes Secondary Audio content, even if it that content is not currently selected for playback. And in the 83, engaging Secondary Audio means the lossy "compatibility" track is what gets used for the feature audio. Not the lossless track you thought you were using.

The newer players are different in this regard. For the 9x and 10x players, you can safely leave Secondary Audio ON continuously if you are using LPCM output.

If you are using BITSTREAM output, even on those newer players, you should still leave Secondary Audio OFF, except when you really need to hear it. That's because the player has to re-encode the audio back into a Bitstream for output after Secondary Audio mixing happens. And the RE-encode back into a Bitstream results in a lossy Bitstream.
--Bob
Did not know that, thanks for the info!
My 83 is on the way back from Oppo (tray issue, lived with it for a while but finally sent it in for repair - Thanks Oppo!), so will change once I get it back.
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post #40813 of 40828 Old 02-03-2016, 07:02 PM
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Did not know that, thanks for the info!
My 83 is on the way back from Oppo (tray issue, lived with it for a while but finally sent it in for repair - Thanks Oppo!), so will change once I get it back.

Ahhh....the dreaded "drawer not staying open" issue?

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post #40814 of 40828 Old 02-04-2016, 07:37 AM
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Time to switch to LPCM. Thanks

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post #40815 of 40828 Old 02-04-2016, 02:24 PM
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Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only]

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Time to switch to LPCM. Thanks

After testing the streaming of the various HD codecs against LPCM conversion on the player, I've come to the conclusion that bitstreaming the codecs definitely sounds better.

I'm not into snake oil cable b.s. And I have basic electronics training so know digital is digital, regardless I proved to myself and a few others quite easily that bitstreaming sounds better.

I've heard others reach the same conclusion and apparently the technical explanation had something to do with uncompressed LPCM being affected HDMI jitter.

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After testing the streaming of the various HD codecs against LPCM conversion on the player, I've come to the conclusion that bitstreaming the codecs definitely sounds better.

I'm not into snake oil cable b.s. And I have basic electronics training so know digital is digital, regardless I proved to myself and a few others quite easily that bitstreaming sounds better.

I've heard others reach the same conclusion and apparently the technical explanation had something to do with uncompressed LPCM being affected HDMI jitter.
Nothing nearly so esoteric as jitter. What you hear is simply the AVR/processor's different handling of each type input. Usually the main difference is level. People are reluctant to admit how much difference a couple db can make in perceived quality, but it does. Nearly ALL AVRs and processors will output different levels for bitstream vs LPCM.
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Nothing nearly so esoteric as jitter. What you hear is simply the AVR/processor's different handling of each type input. Usually the main difference is level. People are reluctant to admit how much difference a couple db can make in perceived quality, but it does. Nearly ALL AVRs and processors will output different levels for bitstream vs LPCM.
I did try quite hard to eliminate levels being a factor, I even used my SPL meter to even things out. lpcm just sounds "flatter" and less dynamic to me than when its decoded by my Denon 4311ci.
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post #40818 of 40828 Old 02-04-2016, 03:51 PM
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^ Check to make sure you have Dynamic Range Control set to OFF in the OPPO. That is applied only during decoding, so if you use Bitstream output it is not applied in the OPPO. (There will likely be a similar setting in the Denon for whether it applies such processing on its end while decoding a Bitstream.)
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post #40819 of 40828 Old 02-04-2016, 04:13 PM
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Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only]

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^ Check to make sure you have Dynamic Range Control set to OFF in the OPPO. That is applied only during decoding, so if you use Bitstream output it is not applied in the OPPO. (There will likely be a similar setting in the Denon for whether it applies such processing on its end while decoding a Bitstream.)
--Bob

Always mate, I can't stand DRC. Dolby volume is also off in my denon.
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I had exactly the opposite experience.After 6 years using bitstream I was convinced by posts here to set Oppo to LPCM and the difference was remarkable using a Yamaha receiver.Everything sounds cleaner getting PCM 5.1 vs dolby digital 5.1.With the latter my center channel usually got a +4 boost which added odd echo effects.Ive been going back and forth listening to same scenes in films and LPCM is far superior and natural sounding.Volume needs to be set a bit louder but it adds fullness to all my seven speakers.

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post #40821 of 40828 Old 02-04-2016, 06:44 PM
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^ Odds are any differences you are hearing between LPCM and Bitstream are due to what's going on in your AVR, not in the OPPO.

In the OPPO, make sure that Secondary Audio is OFF and that Dynamic Range Control is OFF. If you do both of those, LPCM output should be equivalent to Bitstream.

As pointed out above, the most common reason for differences in handling in the AVR is simply Volume mismatch.

But don't discount that some AVRs may simply have bugs in the way they handle LPCM and/or Bitstream input. The "and" case here is particularly frustrating.
--Bob
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Just a quick message to praise Oppo for excellent customer service. My 2009 Opo BDP-83 (definitely out of warranty) developed an issue with the disc drawer not opening. Called Oppo, they did not ask for receipts or anything - just my contact info. They sent me an email with a return authorization number and told me they would fix it and send it back. I sent the unit in last Last Friday. It came back today in a new Oppo tote bag and a letter apologizing for the issue. They paid return shipping, did not charge me anything. That is why I recommend Oppo players without reserve.

Thank you Oppo Team!
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post #40823 of 40828 Old Yesterday, 06:28 PM
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Thats good. For the price of the br player, they should have cs like that! I mean its not like,its a 69.99 br player!

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post #40824 of 40828 Old Yesterday, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddman36 View Post
Thats good. For the price of the br player, they should have cs like that! I mean its not like,its a 69.99 br player!

Fair enough @toddman36 , but I bought mine on Ebay for $225. They still repaired it as if I had bought it new myself.
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post #40825 of 40828 Old Yesterday, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddman36 View Post
Thats good. For the price of the br player, they should have cs like that! I mean its not like,its a 69.99 br player!
I'll just respond to that with a simple question.
How many brands of higher end electronics will repair a product for free, YEARS after the warranty has ended?

Heck, one of the highest priced products I ever bought ended up having TWO defective parts in it,
and they weren't discovered until just after the warranty had ended.
I didn't abuse the product, and the parts were literally defective, not just worn out from usage.
This very popular brand wouldn't even give me the time of day to fix the product.
I'll never buy that brand again now because of that experience, but companies like Oppo Digital really
earn the right for people to give them a top recommendation.
I have never seen a business so willing to make their customers happy along with all the other attributes of their total product.
They treat every customer (even if you don't buy anything from them) with great service,
not just the ones who put money in their pocket today.
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post #40826 of 40828 Old Yesterday, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
I'll just respond to that with a simple question.
How many brands of higher end electronics will repair a product for free, YEARS after the warranty has ended?

Heck, one of the highest priced products I ever bought ended up having TWO defective parts in it,
and they weren't discovered until just after the warranty had ended.
I didn't abuse the product, and the parts were literally defective, not just worn out from usage.
This very popular brand wouldn't even give me the time of day to fix the product.
I'll never buy that brand again now because of that experience, but companies like Oppo Digital really
earn the right for people to give them a top recommendation.
I have never seen a business so willing to make their customers happy along with all the other attributes of their total product.
They treat every customer (even if you don't buy anything from them) with great service,
not just the ones who put money in their pocket today.
amen.

Jacob
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post #40827 of 40828 Old Today, 07:33 AM
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I have a DV-981HD that died, power supply caps failed. I contacted Oppo and for $49 including return shipping the will still fix my 8 year old DVD player. I passed on doing that and bought a gently used BDP-83. Knowing Oppo's policy on repairs I felt OK buying a used but still somewhat expensive player. Noticed a little hesitation with the loading tray and they mailed me a loading belt, free! So then I bought a BDP-83SE for the stereo room. Sold on Oppo!
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post #40828 of 40828 Old Today, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
I'll just respond to that with a simple question.
How many brands of higher end electronics will repair a product for free, YEARS after the warranty has ended?
---snip---

I have never seen a business so willing to make their customers happy along with all the other attributes of their total product.
They treat every customer (even if you don't buy anything from them) with great service,
not just the ones who put money in their pocket today.
+1

There are so few comparable companies out there that finding one is mostly luck (and using AVS ).

Some etailers'/retailers' Customer Service quality are close: Costco is one.

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates!
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